/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Wikipedia articles on Esdras state they were placed by Clement VIII in the appendix of the Vulgate after the New Testament with the rest of the Biblical apocrypha, "lest they perish entirely".

>It may also be found in many larger English Bibles included as part of the Biblical Apocrypha, as they exist in the King James version, the Revised Standard Version, and the earliest editions of the Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible, among others.

I read in the article for the RSV that a version with 84 books was made in 1977 for a Common Bible.

The table of contents in this scan of a printed copy of Brenton's Septuagint translation has the most extensive list I could find though but also doesn't seem to include 2 Esdras.

https://archive.org/details/septuagintversio1900bren

>>666179

The KJV and the RV apocrypha do have 2 Esdras though but not 3 and 4 Maccabees.

You can't put expansion packs on the Bible.

Matthew 11:13

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

>>666211

But your KJV has it

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Apocrypha-Books/

>>666213

Mine doesn't. As early as 1629 there were KJV without apocrypha and where it does appear it is appropriately designated. So its not to be confused with this expansion pack mentality.

>>666216

>expansion pack

>apocrypha section

What's the functional difference?

>>666222

I don't treat maps or geneologies as expansions of the Bible just because they might appear in it.

>>666223

So apocrypha in a Bible volume is okay (according certain doctrines) as long as it's not considered canonical.

Got it.

Speaking tentatively, personal use of gilded books and copies with luxury paper and gold edges could also be considered impious at least as per the opinions of St. Jerome.

Even binding the books into a single volume rather than having them separate as the prophets, apostles, and evangelists would have had with separate scrolls and codices.

The early churches and evangelists probably only had a few books to rely on for converting whole tribes and kingdoms as well as for personal use and at the earliest periods on rustic papyrus codices with covers reinforced by recycled papyri.

Jewish scroll making rules also forbid the use of anything other than black ink and kosher parchment.

>>666246

>he Biblical canon of the Orthodox Church includes the same books as the Protestant Bibles

So the Orthodox don't regard books like First and Second Maccabees or the Wisdom of Sirach as canonical or inspired either?

>>666304

>So the Orthodox don't regard books like First and Second Maccabees or the Wisdom of Sirach as canonical or inspired either?

The word 'canonical' is somewhat ambiguous, but not inspired, yes.

St. Athanasios of Alexandria, the Great: "There are, then, of the Old Testament, twenty-two books in number; for, as I have heard, it is handed down that this is the number of the letters among the Hebrews; their respective order and names being as follows. […] But for greater exactness I add this also, writing of necessity; that there are other books besides these not indeed included in the Canon, but appointed by the Fathers to be read by those who newly join us, and who wish for instruction in the word of godliness. The Wisdom of Solomon, and the Wisdom of Sirach, and Esther, and Judith, and Tobit, and that which is called the Teaching of the Apostles, and the Shepherd. But the former, my brethren, are included in the Canon, the latter being [merely] read; nor is there in any place a mention of apocryphal writings. But they are an invention of heretics, who write them when they choose, bestowing upon them their approbation, and assigning to them a date, that so, using them as ancient writings, they may find occasion to lead astray the simple." (Letter 39)

St. John of Damascus: "Observe, further, that there are two and twenty books of the Old Testament, one for each letter of the Hebrew tongue. For there are twenty-two letters of which five are double, and so they come to be twenty-seven. For the letters Caph, Mere, Nun, Pe, Sade are double. And thus the number of the books in this way is twenty-two, but is found to be twenty-seven because of the double character of five. […] There are also the Panaretus, that is the Wisdom of Solomon, and the Wisdom of Jesus, which was published in Hebrew by the father of Sirach, and afterwards translated into Greek by his grandson, Jesus, the Son of Sirach. These are virtuous and noble, but are not counted nor were they placed in the ark." (An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith)