[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / ausneets / bestemma / flutter / just / leftpol / mascot / mde / vp ]

/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Email
Comment *
File
Password (Randomized for file and post deletion; you may also set your own.)
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Embed
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 16 MB.
Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000.
You may upload 5 per post.


The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: d52f093b08750b0⋯.jpg (449.42 KB, 800x541, 800:541, 149482_slujire.jpg)

2d218f No.651375

Hey Rome, stay in your lane why don't you?

>"Let the ancient customs in Egypt, Libya and Pentapolis prevail, that the Bishop of Alexandria have jurisdiction in all these, since the like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also. Likewise in Antioch and the other provinces, let the Churches retain their privileges. And this is to be universally understood, that if any one be made bishop without the consent of the Metropolitan, the great Synod has declared that such a man ought not to be a bishop. If, however, two or three bishops shall from natural love of contradiction, oppose the common suffrage of the rest, it being reasonable and in accordance with the ecclesiastical law, then let the choice of the majority prevail." - First Council of Nicæa, Canon 6

Even since Stephen I (254-257 A.D.) you've tried to lord yourself over everyone contrary to Jesus's command not to do this. Yes, you did hold the highest degree of honor and were indeed the See we looked to to end heresies. But then you became too full of yourself and began lording it over the rest of us, despite Canon 6 of Nicæa (325 A.D.) literally giving Sees, including Rome, only permission to rule over their respective jurisdictions. Nowhere does it say Rome has all the power. Where does it say that at all? You guys became so corrupt, so full of yourselves, that you still piss your pants over Canon 3 of the Council of Constantinople (381 A.D.) to this day! I'm surprised you didn't do this with Canon 28 of Chalcedon.

>"The most glorious judges said: From what has been done and brought forward on each side, we perceive that the primacy of all and the chief honour according to the canons, is to be kept for the most God-beloved archbishop of Old Rome, but that the most reverend archbishop of the royal city Constantinople, which is new Rome, is to enjoy the honour of the same primacy, and to have the power to ordain the metropolitans in the Asiatic, Pontic, and Thracian dioceses, in this manner: that there be elected by the clergy, and substantial and most distinguished men of each metropolis and moreover by all the most reverend bishops of the province, or a majority of them, and that he be elected whom those afore mentioned shall deem worthy of the metropolitan episcopate and that he should be presented by all those who had elected him to the most holy archbishop of royal Constantinople, that he might be asked whether he willed that he should there be ordained, or by his commission in the province where he received the vote to the episcopate." - Council of Chalcedon, Session XVI

Let holy Orthodoxy prevail! Let Roman tyranny fail!

6d5071 No.651383

>No See has primacy over others

<Both the Roman church and the Orthodox are in agreement that Rome has primacy

thanks for your opinion anyway layman Primacy =/= Supremacy


d59e0d No.651388

>>651375

>Hey Rome, stay in your lane why don't you?

Good news, the current pope is in no lane whatsoever now.


77f806 No.651413

>>651388

>we're crashing this church

>with no survivors


5eba4c No.651457

File: 96d87c4c0f0a0fc⋯.jpg (22.12 KB, 220x280, 11:14, waitamoment.jpg)

Oh my sweet summer child…

First you ignore important part: since the like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also.

To render Canon 6 along the lines of: "Let the Bishop of Alexandria rule this jurisdiction since the Bishop of Rome is also a Patriarch [with his own separate jurisdiction]" is nonsense; it's the non-sequitur fallacy: it doesn't follow nor fit with the (territorial) claims being made in regards to Alexandria.

The only reading that makes sense is something along the lines of: "Let the Bishop of Alexandria rule this jurisdiction since it is the tradition of the Pope to grant Alexandria this jurisdiction." This directly connects to the first clause, and the reasoning and force of the argument is that the authority to which it is appealing to (i.e. Rome) is sufficient to settle the matter.

To render this in any other way is to deny Constantinople I

>Diocesan bishops are not to intrude in churches beyond their own boundaries nor are they to confuse the churches: but in accordance with the canons, the bishop of Alexandria is to administer affairs in Egypt only; the bishops of the East are to manage the East alone (whilst safeguarding the privileges granted to the church of the Antiochenes in the Nicene canons); and the bishops of the Asian diocese are to manage only Asian affairs; and those in Pontus only the affairs of Pontus; and those in Thrace only Thracian affairs. Unless invited bishops are not to go outside their diocese to perform an ordination or any other ecclesiastical business. If the letter of the canon about dioceses is kept, it is clear that the provincial synod will manage affairs in each province, as was decreed at Nicaea. But the churches of God among barbarian peoples must be administered in accordance with the custom in force at the time of the fathers. - Canon 2

This Canon is most certainly calling to mind Canon 6 of Nicaea. Yet notice that there is no mention of Rome among the two giants of Alexandria and Antioch. This strongly supports the claim that Rome has no boundaries, and thus Canon 6 was indeed not putting Rome as on par with Alexandria and Antioch.

And to drive this point even further home, notice what Canon 3 of Constantinople 1 says:

>Because it is new Rome, the bishop of Constantinople is to enjoy the privileges of honour after the bishop of Rome.

So here Rome is mentioned, and it clearly is shown to be the head, as even the man-made See of Constantinople (with no ancient customs and no apostolic roots) is said to be in second rank.


5eba4c No.651458

File: 11205ab484f6960⋯.jpeg (25.67 KB, 220x293, 220:293, ST.-LEO-THE-GREAT-2.jpeg)

>>651457

Let's go further, to the Council of Ephesus

>Philip the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See said: There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the Apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to to-day and forever both lives and judges in his successors. The holy and most blessed pope Cœlestine, according to due order, is his successor and holds his place, and us he sent to supply his place in this holy synod, which the most humane and Christian Emperors have commanded to assemble, bearing in mind and continually watching over the Catholic faith. For they both have kept and are now keeping intact the apostolic doctrine handed down to them from their most pious and humane grandfathers and fathers of holy memory down to the present time (Session III)

And let's end on Chalcedon.

Acts of XVI session proclaim:

"Lucentius the most reverend bishop and legate of the Apostolic See, said: It is manifest that the decrees of the 318 have been put aside… The most glorious judges said: Let each party quote the canons. Paschasinus, the most reverend bishop and representative, read: Canon Six of the 318 holy fathers, "The Roman Church hath always had the primacy. Let Egypt therefore so hold itself that the bishop of Alexandria have the authority over all, for this is also the custom as regards the bishop of Rome."

Canon 28 which gave rights to Constantinople is null and void by decree of apostolic see.

As for those things which the universal Council of Chalcedon recently ordained in favor of the church of Constantinople, let Your Holiness be sure that there was no fault in me, who from my youth have always loved peace and quiet, keeping myself in humility. It was the most reverend clergy of the church of Constantinople who were eager about it, and they were equally supported by the most reverend priests of those parts, who agreed about it. Even so, the whole force of confirmation of the acts was reserved for the authority of Your Blessedness. Therefore, let Your Holiness know for certain that I did nothing to further the matter, knowing always that I held myself bound to avoid the lusts of pride and covetousness. – Patriarch Anatolius of Constantinople to Pope Leo, Ep 132 (on the subject of canon 28 of Chalcedon).

So, the matter was settled; and, for the next 6 centuries, all Eastern churches speak of only 27 canons of Chalcedon – the 28th Canon being rendered null and void by Rome's "line item veto." This is supported by all the Greek historians, such as Theodore the Lector (writing in 551 AD), John Skolastikas (writing in 550 AD), Dionysius Exegius (also around 550 AD); and by Roman Popes like Pope St. Gelasius (c. 495) and Pope Symmachus (c. 500) – all of whom speak of only 27 Canons of Chalcedon.

I have willingly complied, therefore, with what the most clement emperor thought necessary by sending a letter (Ep 114) to all brothers who were present at the Council of Chalcedon to show thereby that the decisions taken by our holy brothers concerning the tenets of the Faith were pleasing to me. My doing so was naturally on account of those who want the decisions of the council to appear weak and dubious, as an occasion for cloaking their own perfidy, on the grounds that decisions were not ratified by assenting opinion of mine (canon 28), whereas I did dispatch a letter. – Pope Leo, Ep 117


dda89f No.651460

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Rome is done. Begome Western Rite.


fefcec No.651477

Just so you know, the Orthodox have been saying since the 12th century that Rome lost all primacy when the western empire fell, and it was transferred to Constantinople. The other idea that Rome never had the primacy to begin with is much more recent and taken from the Protestants, like most things Orthodox today. The two ideas are completely ahistorical.


fefcec No.651480

Read Edward Siecienski's book The Papacy and the Orthodox. It is written by an Orthodox but it shatters all of the Orthodox lies and propaganda.


99bbaf No.651482

>>651477

>is much more recent and taken from the Protestants, like most things Orthodox today

lmao anyone who goes to an Orthodox church will see you are lying. Novus ordo guitar mass not so much. As for primacy yea Orthodox have always said that, i don't know who doesn't. We don't think primacy means what you think it does, the current papacy doesn't assert primacy, try reading vatican 1 some time kiddo.


d9e41d No.651499

>>651457

>So here Rome is mentioned, and it clearly is shown to be the head

Everyone agrees Rome had the first place in the Pentarchy, and among the sees in general.

So do our recent agreements.

>>651458

>For they both have kept and are now keeping intact the apostolic doctrine handed down to them

You realize the main point that guys like St. Mark of Ephesus made was that post-schism popes were no longer in keeping with their predecessors orthodoxy, right?

And yes, you need the Pope to ratify a council's validity(excluding exceptions)

Won't comment on canon 28, since i need to study that first.


4eb8b9 No.651500

File: 37d697119dc893a⋯.jpg (50.72 KB, 600x300, 2:1, 1422173231072.jpg)

>>651375

Now this is not just orthoLARPING, this is advanced orthoLARPING


4cba27 No.651501

File: 20ae3abdfb47a1d⋯.jpg (99.62 KB, 1234x815, 1234:815, 20a.jpg)


95f2ac No.651513

>>651500

I tend to believe (or at least hope) that you are one lone catholic, most likely polish, ho is pissed off with Russians and use it as justification for your autism, despite the fact that autocephaly is a thing (so no, what happens there doesn't affect Orthodoxy in totality) and other orthodox states don't fare with Russians as well.

Also, considering that most of the Internet catholics are feudal LARPers, who basically want to go back to old times with serfdom and, like don Quixote, was poisoned with too much knight fantasy stories from /tg/, this is a typical case of pot telling a kettle that he's too black.


56e190 No.651518

File: c905f0871436b7e⋯.jpg (76.44 KB, 312x397, 312:397, Christ_the_Great_High_Prie….jpg)

>>651460

So, was vid related here. What Rome was like before the Schism?


dd5674 No.651526

>>651499

>Pentarchy

not even the Orthodox believe in the Pentarchy lmao


dd5674 No.651527

>>651513

>ther orthodox states don't fare with Russians as well

the vast majority of Orthodox are part of the russian Orthodox church lmao. Is this a classic notrueorthodoxman argument or something?


95f2ac No.651528

File: e3d36e2151326a2⋯.jpeg (27.46 KB, 640x451, 640:451, mental-retardation-5a5689….jpeg)

>>651526

>>651527

Im reporting you so that you may curb your autism


dd5674 No.651537

>>651528

>facts are autism


4eb8b9 No.651539

>>651513

It's just bants m80, don't take everything so seriously


d9e41d No.651601

>>651526

>not even the Orthodox believe in the Pentarchy lmao

This is why i added "and the sees in general".

The Pentarchy was a historical idea for a period, but the concept of a hierarchy of sees, with Rome having primacy among them(regardless of differing understandings of what that means for each side) applies to all periods of christendom.


dda89f No.651618

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


bc5922 No.651751

File: 07dcf7f0f106c22⋯.jpg (488.97 KB, 1024x1024, 1:1, st gregory the great.JPG)

>>651518

Western Rite Orthodox practice the Liturgy of St. Gregory iirc. So yes.


b53cd6 No.651851

>>651618

The Nicene canon does not say–contrary to your assertion–that the bishop of Rome has absolutely no jurisdiction in Egypt, Lybia etc. as pope. The canon is not pitting patriarchs against patriarchs. It is affirming the authority of bishops of higher canonical rank (patriarchs and metropolitans) over bishops of lower canonical rank.

The "canon" from Chalcedon is not canonical at all. It was always rejected by the Roman Church.

>>651751

>>651618

There is no "the liturgy of St. Gregory." The western-rite liturgy is at best based on the traditional Latin mass with Byzantinizations added in, such as addition of an epiklesis (which the historical Roman rite never had). But other "western-rite" liturgies might be based on Anglican service books. In either case, it's not some secret ancient liturgy from Pope Gregory.


274ab7 No.651854

>>651460

will u say orthodoxy is done when the end times is come?




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Nerve Center][Cancer][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / ausneets / bestemma / flutter / just / leftpol / mascot / mde / vp ]