/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>640944

I'm curious, what are these entrenched beliefs?

Can't solve anything unless you know what your trying to fix

>>641051

Here is a vid on what is in the Masonic "bible"

I know your pain. My father and grandfather are masons. I've had my share of fights with them but they simply will never ever accept they have been deceived.

I dodged that bullet, thankfully.

Masons are losers, they get into this meme club where they think they'll grow up to be big boys but in reality they bigger and bigger hints that they worship lucifer as they "advance" (in reality, pay) through the levels.

They are arrested development manchildren who are as stubborn as a donkey. I hope you can help your friend, but be prepared to fail.

Don't try to convince him through argument, as that won't work unless he's open to it. Instead, show him the good things Christianity has produced like sublime music and stable families.

>>641198

How my experience relates: I grew up with weird occult beliefs that were antichristian, and I became less hostile towards Christianity when I heard some of the great Christian music.

Show him some Bach.

Pray for his salvation, and to saints for intercession for him. This alone may not save him, but it will certainly help!

Also pray for your own strength and support in doing God's work in this.

>>641211

>so as a Christian first and a mason second

Can you get off this board please

>>641215

Why? If there's any contradiction between the two, I serve Christ first. I regard Christians as my brothers and sisters before lodge members.

I can't change the fact that I was initiated when I was young. Do you not want information from the source? I'm not advocating Masonry, I'm just explaining that this fear-mongering Luciferian crap isn't true for most of us.

>>641211

>as a Theist first and a Deist second

Do you see the problem with this?

>>641218

Leave the masons or go build your temple and be engulfed in hellfire. One cannot serve two masters. You should know this

>>641229

>as a Theist first and a Deist second

>Do you see the problem with this?

No, Theism is more restrictive than Deism. Deism does not require you to believe that God does not intervene and, insofar as it does, Masonry is in its technical teachings, theist, despite what some individuals may have believed against Masonry. So, no contradiction there - but you've probably only heard conspiracy BS about what Masonry teaches.

Further, in the event of any contradiction, I choose the Bible over Masonry anyway.

>>641229

> go build your temple and be engulfed in hellfire

If you're referring to Zionist temple building, Masons don't care about it. We're not Zionist or even political anymore.

Heck, one fellow Mason was Orthodox from the middle east, you'd better bet he wasn't a fan of Zionism. Didn't stop him attending lodge with friends from his church.

Again, guys, I admit there are clear errors of the truth in Masonry and that it's a big distraction from more important things like evangelizing, but it's isn't the wacky cult you people think it is.

We were always clear to initiates:

-Lodge is not a replacement for church; (church is good and something you should probably do but the thought was that we improve the mind while church improves the soul, whatever that meant)

-You have to believe in a God that is active in your life (phrased as "supreme being" which I think is an error because it might be construed to deny the trinity - none of us intended that, we just thought in terms of God because we weren't particularly schooled theologically).

-You have to believe in the afterlife.

>>640944

Idk fren. I've studied Hermetics and didn't see any contradiction with my faith (This was back when I was a nuchristian though.) Now that I've "initiated" myself more into the faith it seems like masonry is at odds with the aspects of the faith that very few people are aware of today due to nuchristianity, such as respect for kingship. The Catholic church is (or was) at odds with socialism due to theology, but nuchristians interpret the Bible anyway they like whether or not the theology is valid. Unless you're a capitalist monarchist you're probably more masonic yourself than you realize. It's eery how what's normal can universally change so quickly.

>>641094

>>641121

A1:

They didn't see the larger picture. Ultimately we're all born to trust no one but ourselves.

Some people cling to what their fathers tell them, I've met people that I suspected were high functioning idiots, meaning they could do many things on their own but that's ultimately because they watched and copied but never had to use ingenuity or rational deduction to adapt to new situations.

Freemasonry is a slow indoctrination to satanism. You can watch videos of people that made it to he 33rd level and even then they bombard you with things to take your mind off the idea of what you're about to commit to. Like making you pay $150k, after making a last minute trip to get accepted.

It's all a little push in a direction, over time. Starting with you trusting math and science and thinking you're special and on a path to be special. Not recursively looking up everything to see the true origin. Like science and how it’s all a big web of one science trusting the findings of another, of another, over centuries to build a web of “this is how it is and everyone accepts it”, never really looking to things.

>>641094

>>641121

A2:

I recall my decent from math and science atheist back to god came when I saw Matt Daemon taunting someone about “do you believe in dinosaurs” and I questioned him. Thinking he wasn’t a bully and more interested in people finding out what he knew than intimidating them into accepting it. Yea Matt, dinosaurs, because you trust science and carbon dating. Did you research carbon dating to see how nonexistent of a science it is? No but you trusted someone that said it was true or you just assumed someone would question it publicly and unravel a majorly accepted science.

It's based on pride and that's where most people fall in life. Celebrities have teams they don't pick out pushing an image and it's not always them. But over time they become the image and most kill themselves when they find out the harm they've done. When you learn liars, people that deceived others into a selfish path, the "Imma worry about me, give a winnie the pooh about you"-path, they realize they're not getting out of here.

AFAIK we're here to decide what the real purpose of life is. If you were god, if you were suddenly a god, alone, the only one. WTF would you do? Would you just create to create? Would you want company? If you wanted company would you feel alone if you just made all your friends and knew everything they were going to say and do?

>>641094

>>641121

A3:

I worked in tech, learned everything I could and made it to the top of some VERY successful startups. My mom was a successful nurse, that ran emergency rooms for two of the largest hospitals in the tristate, my dad was a chief scientist for the government. But I trusted neither of them or their decision making. The last 5 years I got into AI, how do you know you made real intelligence and how do you know you just made a comprehensive script of options? How do you know it learned anything and didn’t just observe and never forget anything?

That’s the problem god faced. How do you know you have a true friend? What if you put him in a place that he couldn’t trust anything, felt alone, everything changed constantly and was way too much to encompass the entire thing, and gave him the impression that it could be over at any time? What would he do? Would he serve himself and make the most of it, or try to help something else and make life easier for what ever he was helping? What if he was helping something self-serving like a vein celebrity or a self-absorbed faggot? Would acting happy and being gay give someone the impression gay was the solution?

My ethos was simple from the start. I paid for others mistakes and it made my life harder. I chose, young, to not try and influence anyone, be honest, keep to myself and mind my own business, and stay out of someones way unless its to help and if I hurt more than I help, I make up for it.

I calmed my nerves accepting I could die anytime and no rush was necessary, I don’t bite off more than I can chew so I don’t need to worry about making a mistake I can’t undo or make up for.

It’s been a winnie the pooh lonely road. Everyone is a consumer, self-absorbed, and looking for a distraction to prevent them from thinking about life. I’ve met a lot of people that I tried asking what their meaning of life was and most said the same thing “my dad said try not to think about it and just enjoy life”, yep those are the ones you can’t rely on to do anything but let you down when they choose themselves over anything else.

Those are the ones that when you confront them about doing something “wrong” they’ll snap “what am I supposed to do?”. They want the answers, their heads are full of knee-jerk reactions they “felt” are appropriate responses, and have no complete thoughts of their own.

Others recite the Bible or Torah or what ever they study to tell you what they remember. But you can’t tell if this was given years of their own thought or if they just followed it because they instilled their trust in someone else and never questioned it.

Most find a distraction and never find the time to think about life. I was lucky that I didn’t get selfish and managed to separate my needs from wants so I didn’t waste my money clubbing and get stuck always fighting for rent. You get a 6mo savings and then a 1yr, then eventually you lose the nerves and find the time to question the meaning of it all. Then you realize it’s all a distraction, entertainment, to enjoy life and never build or sustain life outside the world of fun fast and reckless.

>>641094

>>641121

A4:

I’m single. Definitely not a virgin but I was never into casual sex. I always felt like that was two idiots unable to control themselves looking to not be alone. How many people exist today because of those lonely impulses?

I question if I lived the right life but ultimately I tried to make this place better than when I started. Easier for those to not struggle and calm themselves.

But how ever this turns out, I’m comfortable in every moment being my last

>>641241

>>641218

Masonry is satanic

Zionism is not Masonry, but the two are very interconnected

>>641094

>masonic bible

>KJV

Quelle surprise.

>>641241

>Heck, one fellow Mason was Orthodox

No he wasn't. He is either Orthodox or a Mason, there is no way he can possibly be both. Being a member of a masonic order is grounds for immediate excommunication.

>>641488 (heiled)

Freemasonry is a jewish trick to get people into worshiping lucifer instead of Jesus.

Masonic groups vary hugely in their cultyness from larping working class men to centers of organisation against Catholicism.

Can you tell us some of the points you have brought up (as well as how you did) and his responses?

Masons by outside of France have to believe in Personal God/creator in order to join so his salvation might not be as far away as you think.

>>641519

>Masons by outside of France have to believe in Personal God/creator in order to join so his salvation might not be as far away as you think.

It doesn't matter if their god is Satan. With that logic, you're saying Satanists are better than Atheists because at least they believe in a Personal God/creator.

>>641218

http://www.emfj.org/answers.htm

>>641228

Do you? This analogy is retarded on several levels.

>>641522

>>With that logic, you're saying Satanists are better than Atheists because at least they believe in a Personal God/creator.

Youve misunderstood my post. My logic is that its easier to convince someone who believes in a God that our God is the true one than it is to convince someone who believes in no God that not only does God exist but that he is the God as described in the bible- hence bring them to salvation.

>>641218

If you served Christ you wouldn't serve a satanic group. It is not "fear mongering" , it is the truth that retards like you don't want others to hear. This is exactly how your satanic group recruits people: by telling them it is "just a club!". Yes, it is just a club withlevels and secrets that only happen to require apostasy and the worship of Satan.

>>641211

>walks in a place called temple or lodge with sh*t ton of egyptian symbolism and sun worship

>asked about belief in a god, any god.

>old men initiate you by making you swear to be killed if you talk too much

>recieve a Bible that has different teachings included

>handkerchief that hides small benis

>other lodges around the world are muslims, hindus, (imsert random religion) but it's ok, they have a higher being in which they believe.

>learns about egyptian mistery schools and cult of Osiris

>doesn't consider the history of the society

>historically b*ttfunked by the only clerical fascist movement, reason for why it had to be shut down

>33 degree master mason wants to join ww2 in order to save his brothers from Europe so he lets the Pearl Harbor attack to take place and nukes one of the most Christian populated cities in Japan.

>Manly P Hall, Albert Pike, Aleistet Crowley all 33 degree masons

>Joseph Smith created mormonism

>Has group called Templars that have been found worshiping idols and putting their hands on Babylonian mystical teachings

>Owns the movie industry and is literally the reason of all degeneracy we see in movies (joos included)

>own politics and banks along with the (((bergs)))

>hasn't even hear of the movie Occult Forces from 1943

>#notallmasons

I understand you hold dear your group of friends and it offers you great benefits and all but do not think all the bad Christian reviews are just some trolls that get bored.

Do your research. I will try to upload some material for you.

>>641609

If forceful speaking was all that was needed street preachers would have massive followings and no one would be in cults.

Getting aggressive and forceful with people almost never works - be it Scientology, JWs, Trotskyism or Mormonism indeed it often results in people clinging to them even harder.

Look into the accounts of ex cult members and you will be able to count on one hand the people who left due to forceful words by "outsiders". It might make you feel good and pure but you arent helping these poor people

>>641620

I never said anything about street preaching, my point was that as Christians we should be unambiguously for Jesus Christ and not have anything to do with darkness and the occult.

>>641623

I just brought them up as an example of people who exemplify forceful speaking.

>my point was that as Christians we should be unambiguously for Jesus Christ and not have anything to do with darkness and the occult.

Literally nothing I said goes against this - my focus is entirely on getting people out of cultist groups.

>>641615

Most of them don't write like real people. I strongly suspect it's some dedicated Le Epic Troll Ecksdee.

The higher the degree the weirder the teachings.

>>641218

You're ok with being used as a cover for legitimacy? cuck

>>641522

Satanists couldn't join a lodge because

1. The vast majority of them are Levayan atheists

and

2. Masons call god the Grand Architect of the Universe which, obviously according to scripture, the Devil wasn't.

The more one studies Masonry it becomes obvious that it is inherently Christian, yet steeped in Enlightenment thought that makes it easy to subvert. Just like any other secular institution that doesn't proclaim itself to be openly Christian.

>>641612

>walks in a place called temple or lodge with sh*t ton of egyptian symbolism and sun worship

The term lodge and temple are symbolic(like everything in Freemasonry) of King Solomon's temple. They aren't houses of worship.

>asked about belief in a god, any god.

This is an issue I have about as well. I'm currently part of the Brotherhood, but this could be what makes it or breaks it for me. Especially with me finding more truth in the Catholic Church.

>old men initiate you by making you swear to be killed if you talk too much

Symbolic penalties meant to represent the severity of the oaths you've just assumed. The most it would do in reality if you revealed the various words/signs is you would be expelled from the Order.

>recieve a Bible that has different teachings included

Its literally just a KJV. I can show you my Bible if you'd like. It has a representation of the York Rite and the Scottish Rite, a list of definitions for various Masonic words, and an index for Scripture that pertains to Masonic ritual.

>handkerchief that hides small benis

tigga what?

>other lodges around the world are muslims, hindus, (imsert random religion) but it's ok, they have a higher being in which they believe.

I agree. I don't think non-christians should be able to join.

>learns about egyptian mystery schools and cult of Osiris

Only in so far as we learn about Pythagoras being initiated into these various mystery schools.

>doesn't consider the history of the society

Expound on this, please.

>historically b*ttfunked by the only clerical fascist movement, reason for why it had to be shut down

>A clerical Fascist movement didn't like people steeped in enlightenment thought how shocking

>33 degree master mason wants to join ww2 in order to save his brothers from Europe so he lets the Pearl Harbor attack to take place and nukes one of the most Christian populated cities in Japan.

Is there a quote of him saying why he dropped the bombs on that particular city, or are you just assigning a motive to him?

>Manly P Hall, Albert Pike, Aleistet Crowley all 33 degree masons

Crowley was initiated into a clandestine(irregular) lodge and isn't considered a Mason by the United Grand Lodge of England.

>Joseph Smith created mormonism

I would agree that *if* Freemasonry was a religion Mormonism would be what it would look like. Wacky shit.

>Has group called Templars that have been found worshiping idols and putting their hands on Babylonian mystical teachings

Source? I have the Duncan Ritual book that has the various degrees of the York RIte, and Babylonian mystical teachings are not in there.

>Owns the movie industry and is literally the reason of all degeneracy we see in movies (joos included)

Lol Freemasonry has been irrelevant since the 60s. Actual spooky esoteric Freemasonry has been dead since the 20s.

>Own politcs and banks along with the ((bergs)))

tigga there's barely a Mason in congress.

>hasn't even hear of the movie Occult Forces from 1943

Explain.

>#notallmasons

Yes. Not all Masons.

>>646328

*tigga

I can't spell for shit today

When did they add in a word filter for tigger?

>>641674

>It seems near-universal among people who deny scripture to want within themselves to deny the pronouncement that the meek will inherit the earth. I think it's because they want to believe in their own strength and abilities like an unbroken horse.

Who wants to be a eunuch? "Don't look at women sexually." "Don't use foul language." "Don't be vain."

I want to be a man. I like women. I want as many women as I can get. I don't want to be a whimpering castrate that crawls low to the ground. Makes me feel like a damn herbivore. It angers me so much. The only thing that keeps me anchored to Christ is a fear of Hell to be honest with you. Am I wrong?

>>649826

>"It's actually really manly to want to spent a quiet evening at home knitting with your legs crossed."

I feel like I'm castrating myself by putting the shackles on myself. Feels like I'm a lion pretending to be a mouse.

>>649829

Really? For me its the complete opposite.

2 Corinthians 4:6

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 3:8

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:

>>649832

Please don't get me wrong, I do believe in a spirit and a flesh, and that the flesh can be bad. I understand and agree with the thinking of the Renaissance. When I watch The Greatest Story Ever Told, Charlton Heston as John Baptist, I really get revved up, because that's the man in me wanting to say, "To hell with you." The martyr is a proud, strong figure.

But when I'm forbidden from taking the fruits and spoils of being a man, being restricted. It ruins it for me again.

>>649824

If you take decisions based on fear, you choose ignorance. Love is the way to true freedom. Love Jesus because He loves you, not because of the condemnation by the Father.

>>649925

>Masons drink water

>ergo all water is satanic now

Really irrigates my igloo

>>641612

>>Owns the movie industry and is literally the reason of all degeneracy we see in movies (joos included)

My brothers in Christ, do not forget that Freemasonary is Judaism for non-Jews. It is completely based on Jewish/Babylonian Mysticism and should be illegal. Secret societies should be purged, since they are Sodom and Gomorrha in spirit; they worship fertility and genitals, and ancient idols like Baal. It is quite tragic that such idols are still worshipped, right in front of our eyes, and nobody bats theirs.

Vid very related (skip to 28:07): https://www.bitchute.com/video/7EJM7hSlUpyi/

I want to thank /christian/ a lot for helping me come to the decision to demit my position in the Lodge that I was in.

>>640944

If you guys want to deprogram Masons, you've gotta learn what they actually believe. I would love you guys to succeed but, when you arguing against beliefs they don't even have, they'll never listen.

I mean, imagine if Mason came up to us and said we need to stop being Christian because we're engaging in cannabalism when we take the Eucharist. Or that Christ tells us that anyone who accidentally trips a child deserves death?

Likewise, believing conspiracy theorists about what Masons believe and then talking to a Mason, telling them what they believe when it definitely isn't what they believe, isn't going to save anyone.

Instead of listening to these weirdos, go look up educational websites for Masons, people who've written about the ritual and degrees. They give out far more information than they're supposed to and you can argue against Masons with these things because the pro-Masonic sites contain what they actually believe. If you look hard enough, all the secret information has been exposed already.

Of course, no one is going to get 1,000,000 views by posting the mudane true information, and though the Masons are in error in various places, it will take a good knowledge of apologetics to explain why- simply telling them they worship Lucifier will accomplish nothing.

>>653070

We just show them we know what their satanic cult is. That is what they get themselves into, so don't get mad because we call them out.

>>653074

I'm not mad, they don't get mad either. They just think your looney.

Masonry is wrong, no argument there, but not for the ridiculous reasons you think it is.

>>653165

Basically this. When one argues against Masonry one should mention that the conception of God inside of it is a deistic one, and it has no mention of the Trinity inside of it. A Mason may say that they substitute Jesus for this God when they pray and work in degrees, but that doesn't change the inherently deistic, and therefore heretical, nature of the Grand Architect of the Universe.

>>646328

>I would agree that *if* Freemasonry was a religion Mormonism would be what it would look like. Wacky shit.

Coincidentally, Joseph Smith was a 33rd degree Freemason.

>>653310

If I recall Joseph Smith was just a 3rd degree mason considering considering the Scottish Rite wouldn't have been available to anybody in Illinois at the time, but yeah the oaths they take and many of the symbols they use in their cult are Masonic in nature.

>>653312

Most of the symbols (note, most) Freemasons use are Christian in nature. They corrupt them to make them more accessible to other faiths.

Freemasonry is like Christianity light. It's not Luciferian, it's like diluting Christs message just enough so that everyone can be included- but then it's not a narrow path and there's no salvation there.

Thus, while some Christian Freemasons might be saved, they're causing non-Christian Freemasons to stumble unless they're witnessing in lodge, which they're not allowed to do.

It's far harder to hear the message of Christ when you've heard something sort of similar that you already believe but that isn't right- much like why it's hard to convert Muslims.

That's what you're up against with non-Christian or culturally-Christian Freemasons