/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

You believe that there are trillions of other gods on different planets and believe that good mormons become a god when they die. That's way to far away from the Bible teaches, and is literally satanic

Genesis 3

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Isaiah 14

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

You guys carry some external forms like baptism, yes, but much of your deeper doctrine is completely insane and incompatible with the Christian faith.

And do give credit where credit is due. Adventists are unabashed judaizers but they still adhere to the Nicene Creed (if just barely).

>>640294

>You believe that there are trillions of other gods on different planets

We believe there is a cycle in godhood, and yes other "gods" exist. But we believe there is only one God in our area of the universe. We worship this God alone. No other god can be worshiped but God alone.

>and believe that good mormons become a god when they die.

You've never heard the expression, "God became man so man can might become a god" (Or, "God became man so man might become God"). The early Church Fathers talked about this. And as far as I know you guys still believe it. Becoming a god is a central part of salvation in the Christian faith, no? Jesus himself even said,

>"Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

>If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

>Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

>John 10:34-36

>>640295

>You guys carry some external forms like baptism, yes, but much of your deeper doctrine is completely insane and incompatible with the Christian faith.

Like what? I don't see anything. We believe Jesus is the Son of God. We believe he died for us. We believe in the Holy Ghost. We believe in baptism. We have bishops. We read the Bible all of the time. What makes us different?

>>640290

>Yeah, there are differences between us. But we have so much more in common.

No we don't. Mormons believe there are many gods and that God became God by obedience to law. That alone makes Islam more Christian than you.

>>640299

Muslims don't believe Jesus is the Son of God. They deny his crucifixion. They don't use the Bible. They don't baptize. They don't have churches they have mosques.

We

Are

Christian

>>640296

>You've never heard the expression, "God became man so man can might become a god" (Or, "God became man so man might become God"). The early Church Fathers talked about this. And as far as I know you guys still believe it.

You're misinterpreting the idea of theosis in a way that supports your doctrine. The Church fathers never supported the idea of partaking of God's essence, but rather partaking of God's energy. This is St. Palamas' essence-energy distinction and a foundational part of Orthodox Christian theology; it's not an exaggeration to say that the entire concept of theosis hinges on this point.

>>640297

Al of those things are required for the Christian faith, yes. But there are also other things that you aren't mentioning, things that you aren't doing, that you must do to be Christian.

>But they don't believe him to be the Son of God

Here you contradict yourself. You say that someone is a Christian based on following "Christ", not on holding dogma. But then reject Muslims as Christians because they dont hold certain dogma.

>But we believe they are separate in substance, whereas Trinitarians teach they are one in substance. That really doesn't sound like that big of a difference.

Believing in three gods vs believing in one God is a pretty big difference, and yes who God is, is a big deal.

You try really hard to be considered Christian, there is one easy way you can be considered a Christian brother, and that's BEGUM

1. The nature of God, the fact that Mormons believe that God has a body of flesh and bones, rather than being a spirit.

2. Joseph Smith taught that there was a plurality of gods (God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit are separate beings, and many “intelligences” helped form the earth in the Mormon scripture called The Pearl of Great Price).

3. Mormons believe in a pre-mortal life, which is a pagan belief (via Plato) and not a belief of other Christians.

4. Mormons believe that they can become gods (not spoken of much anymore, though not officially renounced, either).

5. Mormons believe that we were all siblings (children of God) in the pre-mortal life, including Christ and Lucifer (Satan).

6. Mormons believe that other Christian churches are “apostate,” meaning devoid of true priesthood authority from God, which was taken from the earth in the first century, and only returned in the 1800s to Joseph Smith.

7. Mormons believe that they have to do various temple rituals (baptisms and marriage sealings) in order to return to God, thus denying the sufficiency of Christ’s Atonement.

>>640301

>You're misinterpreting the idea of theosis in a way that supports your doctrine. The Church fathers never supported the idea of partaking of God's essence, but rather partaking of God's energy. This is St. Palamas' essence-energy distinction and a foundational part of Orthodox Christian theology; it's not an exaggeration to say that the entire concept of theosis hinges on this point.

2 Peter 1:4 explicitly says,

>Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

We believe that in our resurrected bodies, those who have completed all the requirements of salvation, will achieve godhood. We don't become the same as God, but we become like him in nature as 2 Peter 1:4 explicitly says. By this we can do everything he does. How is this that big of a difference?

>Al of those things are required for the Christian faith, yes. But there are also other things that you aren't mentioning, things that you aren't doing, that you must do to be Christian.

What you must do to be a Christian is believe Jesus to be the Son of God. We believe that. We are Christians.

>>640296

>You've never heard the expression, "God became man so man can might become a god" (Or, "God became man so man might become God").

Which is heresy

>The early Church Fathers talked about this

Because they're heretics.

>>640303

>The nature of God, the fact that Mormons believe that God has a body of flesh and bones, rather than being a spirit.

Genesis 3:8 says God was walking. Also Exodus 33:11 affirms that God has a physical face. It even says Moses spoke with God as if he were a real friend. This indicates a physical body. Also, three men meet with Abraham in Genesis 18, which is clearly the Godhead.

>2. Joseph Smith taught that there was a plurality of gods (God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit are separate beings, and many “intelligences” helped form the earth in the Mormon scripture called The Pearl of Great Price).

Please read my OP again and see >>640296

>3. Mormons believe in a pre-mortal life, which is a pagan belief (via Plato) and not a belief of other Christians.

The Church Father Origen taught about pre-mortal life.

>4. Mormons believe that they can become gods (not spoken of much anymore, though not officially renounced, either).

Again, see >>640306 and >>640296

>5. Mormons believe that we were all siblings (children of God) in the pre-mortal life, including Christ and Lucifer (Satan).

Ok, and? What does that detract in anyway?

>6. Mormons believe that other Christian churches are “apostate,” meaning devoid of true priesthood authority from God, which was taken from the earth in the first century, and only returned in the 1800s to Joseph Smith.

But, if I understand correctly, Protestants believe the same thing about Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and other Protestants.

>7. Mormons believe that they have to do various temple rituals (baptisms and marriage sealings) in order to return to God, thus denying the sufficiency of Christ’s Atonement.

The Bible clearly affirms the need for baptism and marriage (see Genesis 2:24 for marriage, and Acts 22:16).

>>640302

>Here you contradict yourself. You say that someone is a Christian based on following "Christ", not on holding dogma. But then reject Muslims as Christians because they dont hold certain dogma.

A follower of Christ is someone who believes Jesus is the Son of God. Muslims don't follow Christ in this respect.

>Believing in three gods vs believing in one God is a pretty big difference, and yes who God is, is a big deal.

Three beings =/= three gods. We believe in one God in three beings.

>>640306

There's not a quick answer to 2 Peter 1:4 because, essentially, that's the verse the entire essence-energy debate hinged on.

Here's an article. It's long, but if you want to know why you're incorrect, I'd highly recommend reading it. http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/Russell_partakers.html

Or you could just read Palamas' works themselves

>We believe that. We are Christians.

This thread is going to go nowhere fast unless you're actually trying to learn something. We can help you, but you need to listen.

>>640316

>This thread is going to go nowhere fast unless you're actually trying to learn something. We can help you, but you need to listen.

I'm trying to reach out to my other Christian brethren and hope to have dialogue. Ecumenism between our denominations.

Hope this video will help you understand why Mormons and Christians are so distant.

OP, I invite you to watch the 12-minute YouTube video >>640321. I think that is all we can do. God bless.

>>640290

I want to smash your winnie the pooh temples with a sledge hammer. Mormons deserve to be persecuted tbh

Because you're not.

Because you believe someone gave birth to God the Father, you aren't just not Christian you aren't even monotheists. Muslims are better than Mormons

Can someone please explain why according to Mormon doctrine Jesus had to be crucified and rise from the dead? Because the way I understand it, one becomes a Mormon god through obedience to Mormon teachings, so what was the point of the crucifixion? Does every planet have its own version of a mormon Jesus

>>640290

OP, you say all those things you believe in that we supposedly also believe in, but you are missing an important point: when Mormons say they believe in X they say the same thing, but they mean something completely different.

> But Mormons do believe Jesus is the Son of God

Mormons believe every man is the son of God. Not in the sense that we are children of God because He created us as Christians believe, but that we are literally the offspring of the Mormon god and one of his goddess wives. This is a major difference, not just minor semantics.

The only thing that makes Mormon Jesus special is that he is the oldest son of the Mormon god, not his only-begotten Son. This makes the Mormon belief no closer the Christianity than the Muslim belief that Jesus was just a prophet.

> But in truth the Mormon Godhead is not that different. We believe God is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. But we believe they are separate in substance, whereas Trinitarians teach they are one in substance. That really doesn't sound like that big of a difference.

It is a massive difference whether there is some sort of tribunal of three gods, or only one God. This is not some autistic question like whether a church procession should go clockwise or counter-clockwise. If you are not Unitarian, you are not Christian.

> Like other Christians, we hold the Bible to be the word of God. But we also accept the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, as well as the Pearl of Great Price to be scripture. But really they're all the same. They teach all of the same stuff.

No, they don't. Mormons have altered holy Scripture to add their space aliens and other heresies.

Not to mention the fact that your "prophet" is a fraud, just look up the supposed "book of Abraham". The TL;DR is that some Egyptologist brought a scroll to Smith in the hope that he could translate it (this was before the Stone of Rosetta had been discovered). He made up a story of how the scroll was supposedly a long-lost book written by Abraham, and then the original got conveniently lost. Years later, after the discovery of the Rosetta Stone, the scroll was found and translated properly. Turns out it was just an instructional manual for preparing mummies. Joseph Smith is nothing but a dirty liar.

> So, why don't you consider us Christians? We baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We also practice the Lord's Supper. Again, there is no reason we shouldn't be considered Christians.

Again, you use all the right terms, but you mean completely different things. It's not about what you say, it's about what you do.

>>640296

> We believe there is a cycle in godhood, and yes other "gods" exist. But we believe there is only one God in our area of the universe. We worship this God alone. No other god can be worshiped but God alone.

Again, this is a massive difference. Christians believe that there is only one God, not that there are countless gods but only one of them is our designated god.

I would technically classify Mormons as Christians, but it's pretty obvious why most Christians don't. Adding an entire testament to scripture is a big deal. It would be like Christians asking Jews why they don't consider Christians to be Jews.