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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: ba14d5bd988a676⋯.jpg (105.27 KB, 800x500, 8:5, conversion-of-st-augustine….jpg)

f570f6 No.638989

Quit coffee for lent – haven't felt right since. On the one hand, I feel puritanical even saying this, but on the other – isn't there something sinful about deliberately cultivating a physical bondage to a substance (such that you need it every day to function) like caffeine? Isn't it my obligation to liberate myself from such strong earthly attachments so that I can get closer to God? Would St. Augustine have drank coffee?

Someone please show me where my reasoning is going wrong here. If I have to give up coffee for love of God, then I will endure all evils – but if I'm being puritanical and there is a real philosophical defense for drinking a cup of coffee every day, can you do that?

Caffeine's always the hard one – I always hear fellow Catholics defending drinking and tobacco use, but never physical dependency on these substances. Yet they all drink coffee every day and are physically dependent on it – so then why not be physically dependent on other substances, provided that that dependency doesn't lead me into other sins?

e000ab No.638992

>>638989

You should not be bound to one thing on this Earth. You were born with nothing, you will leave with nothing, and all will be destroyed by Christ anyway, and a new created order will be made (I consider this the destruction of nearly all of anything that is created and not perfectly in line with God, so literally the whole Universe/multiverse and anything else).

Test of attachment: If you lost it forever would you immediately rejoice and thank God (we are to thank Him for all things, including the "bad") or have a negative emotion?

There is no defense for attachments, even the pagans knew this.


f570f6 No.638994

>>638992

If I suddenly was taken from it I suppose I would rejoice interiorally while physically suffering.

Again, I really want to drink coffee – so if it's licit to have a physical bond to it (like 99% of Christians do), then I will. But if it's not, I follow Christ.

The first option is scary though – if I give up caffeine, whatever. But if God is really going to judge those who unnecessarily submitted themselves to this bondage – even "good" Catholics – that's terrifying.


e000ab No.638998

>>638994

It probably has to do with knowledge, but then again we are told not to love (be attached to) several things in the Scriptures: our lives, our posessions, our perceived needs, and others.

"This therefore I say, brethren; the time is short; it remaineth, that they also who have wives, be as if they had none; And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as if they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; And they that use this world, as if they used it not: for the fashion of this world passeth away."

"Therefore I say to you, be not solicitous for your life, what you shall eat, nor for your body, what you shall put on. Is not the life more than the meat: and the body more than the raiment? Behold the birds of the air, for they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not you of much more value than they? And which of you by taking thought, can add to his stature by one cubit? And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. And if the grass of the field, which is to day, and to morrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?"

"Itself remaineth alone. But if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world, keepeth it unto life eternal."

So really, we are not meant to be attached to anything and just do God's work with whatever situation there is (but rejoicing and thanking God for all of them). Making it where your body rules your soul (aka submitting to the flesh instead of the spirit) can't possibly be good for this non-attachment we are to have.

"Aiming therefore at such great things (freedom he mentions here, which we Christians know is in Christ, but the Stoics sought it in total control of the will), remember that you must not allow yourself to be carried, even with a slight tendency, towards the attainment of lesser things. Instead, you must entirely quit some things and for the present postpone the rest. But if you would both have these great things, along with power and riches, then you will not gain even the latter, because you aim at the former too: but you will absolutely fail of the former, by which alone happiness and freedom are achieved."


9a19e8 No.639027

>>638989

Caffeine in the modern diet is necessary due to endemic hypothyroidism. Man is meant to eat the thyroid gland of animals but butchers get rid of that now. Caffeine mimics the role of thyroid supplementation.

The Catholic view is this: if it is therapeutic and good for your health then do it.

If it is bad for your health and/or for pleasure don't do it


9133d6 No.639031

>>639027

Well put, brother. I have heart problems so instead of coffee I drink yerba matè; honoring my Brazilian roots whilst getting my energy boost.


5fe6ca No.639032

>>638989

I used to be addicted to caffeine, then I went cold turkey on in for several days straight when I realise I would shake like crazy and feel like having a cold all the time without my daily dose. The pain of withdrawal was nigh unbearable that the way I went cold turkey is that I shut myself in for several days as if I am stricken with illness. The most delirious days ever in my life.

Thank the Lord for lifting it from me. I do not even touch the stuff now, and absolutely have no need or any urge to. Now I just have to repeat that with video games, no-fap, the internet (already cut off all social media, modern society be damned), and computer usage altogether.

Addiction/obsession is a form of gluttony/greed. If the usage of anything has gone into that territory then either you deal with it with temperance (moderate computer usage, use only as a tool if need be), or if it went really too far and your spiritual wellness and your connection to God are in jeopardy then cut it off completely.


f570f6 No.639083

>>639027

Source?


5bfa5e No.639115

>>638989

I disagree with many posters here. I think that renouncing to coffee is as stupid as renouncing to sugar or tv or anything. Keep the 2 commandments inside you and forget about "renouncing" to things. Pleasurable things are dangerous, I know, but not everything is a vice.


8c9380 No.639116

>>638989

I'm surprised you're still feeling the effects of quiting tbh. I drink quite a bit every day and when I quit for a while the aftereffects (mostly minor headaches) go away in a couple of days.


2f062c No.639121

I hope you can quit coffee for life, friend.

I've been addicted since I was 14 or so. I'm 20 now, I wish I had quit sooner. Once the addiction is over you'll actually feel good without it.


3e79cf No.639124

File: cfe4b01292ba00c⋯.jpg (98.63 KB, 720x1107, 80:123, Procrastination.jpg)

In general, without religious doctrine involved, everyone should try and get their caffeine addiction in control. Drinking coffee screws up your brains receptors and doesn't really give you energy, it just gives you a stress response because you are drinking mild poison. It's quite vicious because when your body has caffeine in it, it releases chemicals that make you tired to bring you down a bit so when you drink coffee your body just makes you tired in response. And it becomes more and more efficient at doing so the more you drink.


528f56 No.639167


8cd1fa No.639170

To all in the thread, you must take lots of sugar with coffee or you will get the anxiety adrenal response. Caffeine makes your metabolism increase which requires sugar. Get enough sugar (I recommend orange juice and milk) and you will feel calm and energised


f570f6 No.639724

OP here,

Still totally lost and confused – on the one hand I feel so terrible without coffee, it's been over 2 months now with only some tiny caffeinated beverage use in between and I still feel slow, lethargic, unmotivated etc.

I feel so bad today, and I know there are so many priests and saints who drank coffee every day so why shouldn't I? But I can't find any real philosophical defense of it.

It sounds so dumb but I am in so much pain because of this, I am hurting so much in my studies and in my work and life because of this, please pray for me


b79929 No.639730

>>638989

>Isn't it my obligation to liberate myself from such strong earthly attachments so that I can get closer to God?

Yes read 1 corinthians 6:12

>All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Be not under the power of caffine.


b79929 No.639731

>>639724

>It sounds so dumb but I am in so much pain because of this

Now if you are having infirmities and are looking for something in faith as anything not of faith is sin as said in romans 14:23 then do 1 timothy 5:23

>Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Don't be a drunkard though, just "a little wine".




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