/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

The Lord knows

Just like how people before Christ could still be good people and later come into salvation in. There is nothing saying that people who of no fault of their own never heard of Christ goes automatically to Hell.

Limbo

Lake of Fire

>>636620

Yes they do. It says the law if God is written on their hearts. Such as pretty much everyone agrees that lying, murder, and theft are wrong but they've all lied.

Romans 2

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

>>636613

> They will all be tortured for eternity because they made the mistake of not being born at the right time.

Everyone who goes to Hell does so because of the sins they've committed in life. We aren't all given the same opportunities or the same mercies by God. Some people will never hear the word of Christ and will never be forgiven for their sins. God has that right to withhold salvation if he so desires.

>>636600

I think this article gives a pretty good idea. Interesting food for thought, at least:

http://thefederalist.com/2017/09/01/heres-answer-rob-bell-wont-give-aaron-rodgers-salvation-people-remote-rainforest/

Here's a portion:

>If indeed Christ proclaimed the gospel in Sheol/Hades to those who never heard in the Old Testament age, that would explain how “God overlooked” their ignorance. He didn’t excuse it or ignore it. He deferred it until the time his son would give them a chance to repent. I argue for a place in Sheol called Hyperidon (Greek for “overlooking”), distinct from Abraham’s Bosom and Gehenna, reserved for those who neither received nor rejected the Word, but simply never heard. God overlooked their ignorance until the proper time, when Christ preached to them.

>But notice how things change with Paul: “God now commands all men everywhere to repent.” By one interpretation, this would seem to say that, at some specific point in salvation history—Christ’s death? Resurrection? Ascension? Pentecost?—God made a heavenly decree that, even if in the past he overlooked ignorance, now he wants all men to repent.

>So, say you’re a 60-year-old Athenian in AD 25, prior to the fulfillment of Christ’s mission. If you died then, you’d still be under Old Testament rules. Your ignorance would be overlooked, and after spending five years in Sheol, you’d eventually see Jesus come down and preach the gospel.

>But if you survive and live past that point, now you’re under new rules that you must repent or be damned. This is true even if you never hear the gospel. Well, lucky for you, you made it to 80 and heard St. Paul preach. Or you didn’t, and you along with all the other pagans of the world die condemned under the new rules of “repent or be damned.”

>But that interpretation ignores the literalness of the “now” of Paul’s words. He’s actually stating when that “specific time” is for repenting. It’s not at some past moment like Pentecost or Christ’s death. It’s “now,” at the moment of his proclamation to the Athenians! In other words, it’s in the proclamation of the Word that the Old Testament rules switch over to New Testament rules. Proclamation of the gospel makes real and present Christ’s salvation event. Proclamation of the gospel “for you” is an essential moment of salvation history. Proclamation of the gospel is the point at which the Old Testament ends for a person and the New Testament begins.

>Why is this significant? Because it means that anyone who dies today not having heard the gospel dies under the Old Testament rules. God overlooks his ignorance, and he will hear Christ’s preaching after his death. Whether that is in spirit, or at the resurrection of the flesh on Judgment Day can be argued (I tend toward the latter), but the ultimate point is preserved that all people will hear the gospel. This is not a “second chance,” because they never had a first chance.

There's more there explaining some of his reasoning. I'd recommend giving it a read.

>>636638

Wouldn't it be better to never tell people the Gospel so they have no chance of rejecting it?

>>636643

He addresses that. He says that Christ is such a tremendous treasure, that it would be like not telling a man he had come into a very large inheritance. We tell them because 1. it is our Christian duty, and 2. a life with Christ is a beautiful thing, and a life without Christ is a very tragic thing.

>>636644

Fair enough. This article is helpful thanks.

Literally Romans 1:18-32 what part of this is so hard for people to understand

>>636600

If it is physically impossible for them to be baptised confirmed and have the Eucharist then they may be incorporated mystically by their intention into the body of Christ.

If is physically possible and we know the sure power of God's grace that calls all to his Church then we should ask why they have not joined the Church yet?

>>636600

The proceedings become more lengthy, one's guilt can only be assessed in light of the state of one's knowledge.

Probably only guilty of tying up court resources :-)

>>636940

creature?

Can I bring my dog now?

>>636950

You're an idiot

>>636638

I appreciate the link, what I wonder though is, in terms of 'hearing' the gospel or not, where do you draw the line? It is onlyfor people who have never literally come into contact with the gospel message? Or does this include people who have, but through no fault of their own (being bought up by atheist parents and surrounded by an atheist culture and hadn't been exposed to or taken the initiative to look into the reasons people of faith believe on the assumption there were no good arguments and reasons) been exposed to the gospel but only in a superficial way so they didn't 'get' it? I'm just thinking of a sincere 14yo who doesn't believe, despite having heard what the gospel is on a surface level - will he get a second chance or no? The line of reasoning in the article seems like it could be pushed to provide many with a second chance, inducing a potentially near-universal scale of salvation.