>>632573
>You haven't made an argument here, you've just misrepresented the reformers.
<To be fair, you have to have a high IQ to understand Calvin & Luther …
>Show me a single passage from any of the countless reformers saying that the Church isn't important and they were making up new theology.
Right, let's start with Luther himself, from his own theses:
New theology:
<It is a heretical opinion, but a common one, that the sacraments of the New Law give pardoning grace to those who do not set up an obstacle.
<To deny that in a child after baptism sin remains is to treat with contempt both Paul and Christ.
<That there are three parts to penance: contrition, confession, and satisfaction, has no foundation in Sacred Scripture nor in the ancient sacred Christian doctors.
<Contrition, which is acquired through discussion, collection, and detestation of sins, by which one reflects upon his years in the bitterness of his soul, by pondering over the gravity of sins, their number, their baseness, the loss of eternal beatitude, and the acquisition of eternal damnation, this contrition makes him a hypocrite, indeed more a sinner.
<Sins are not forgiven to anyone, unless when the priest forgives them he believes they are forgiven; on the contrary the sin would remain unless he believed it was forgiven; for indeed the remission of sin and the granting of grace does not suffice, but it is necessary also to believe that there has been forgiveness.
<In the sacrament of penance and the remission of sin the pope or the bishop does no more than the lowest priest; indeed, where there is no priest, any Christian, even if a woman or child, may equally do as much.
<Great is the error of those who approach the sacrament of the Eucharist relying on this, that they have confessed, that they are not conscious of any mortal sin, that they have sent their prayers on ahead and made preparations; all these eat and drink judgment to themselves. But if they believe and trust that they will attain grace, then this faith alone makes them pure and worthy.
<In every good work the just man sins.
<Purgatory cannot be proved from Sacred Scripture which is in the canon.
The Church is unimportant:
<Christians must be taught to cherish excommunications rather than to fear them.
<Excommunications are only external penalties and they do not deprive man of the common spiritual prayers of the Church.
<The Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, is not the vicar of Christ over all the churches of the entire world, instituted by Christ Himself in blessed Peter.
<It is certain that it is not in the power of the Church or the pope to decide upon the articles of faith, and much less concerning the laws for morals or for good works.
<If the pope with a great part of the Church thought so and so, he would not err; still it is not a sin or heresy to think the contrary, especially in a matter not necessary for salvation, until one alternative is condemned and another approved by a general Council.
<Some articles of John Hus, condemned in the Council of Constance, are most Christian, wholly true and evangelical; these the universal Church could not condemn.
<A way has been made for us for weakening the authority of councils, and for freely contradicting their actions, and judging their decrees, and boldly confessing whatever seems true, whether it has been approved or disapproved by any council whatsoever.
>Your misrepresentation doesn't establish your argument because for the Reformation to lead to the Enlightenment it requires the epistemic principles to actually lead logically to atheism.
So rejecting the authority of the Church which Christ Himself founded, as attested in Sacred Scripture, isn't the first tumble down that slippery slope? Because it's no coincidence that the subsequent revolutions together mimick the collapse of faith in individuals. If one can't trust the Church (and by extension Tradition and the Magisterium) how can it then trust Scripture? By the Holy Spirit? OK, but whose inspiration is more inspired? How then can it trust Divine Order founded on the Scripture? How can it respect the Natural Order, which is mentioned in Scripture? If Scripture is wrong, then what's wrong with homosexuality, abortion, pre-marital sex, substance abuse, atheism, theft, pride and so many other things the Church warned us about? Following this, how can one trust man as anything other than a trifling liar who peddles fantasies? How can I love such a creature or treat him with anything other than contempt?
>Apparently you are so foolish as to believe that Luther was sitting around and decided "Today I think I'll destroy Christendom".
I'd say that for someone who confessed himself to be so afraid of Satan, that his actions are completely ironic since he ended up doing his will very effectively, whether he meant to or not.