/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>implying arguing philosophy with atheists converts them

>even when it's very simple ethics

You're better off leading by example via a virtuous life of your own. People, especially men, are attracted to strength, intellect and integrity.

>>631034

>how do you convince atheists

There's your problem.

You can only convince someone to your way of thinking if they already agree with you on some level.

>>631034

What >>631035 said. Some atheists are so high on their own farts that they just can't be reasoned with. The best way to change their mind would be to live a fullfilling and happy life. Lead by example

How do you teach pigs the skill of pearl appraisal?

>>631034

Who said I want justice, morality, or purpose? I just wanted to indulge myself in hedonistic pleasure until I die. I fully accept the fact that life is pointless and meaningless.

>>631074

t. Satan

>how do you convince atheists that without God there's no morality, justice or purpose to anything?

you dont because thats not true, god simply provides additional morality, justice, and purpose but to say the world is bereft of it without him is silly

unless you mean it in the sense that god created everything, then it follows, but I dont think you mean it in that sense

t.agnostic lurker

>>631093

Morality does not mean standards and traditions. Inventing new moral systems without God like (((relative morality))) is original sin.

>>631095

fuck it okay I will be active in this thread

morality is doing whats right, not a system, there can be systems involving morality (for example dont do all the things the bible says not to because it makes god cry, here is a guide to them)which you follow, but its not wrong because its in the list its in the list because its wrong

by your definition all the laws of man are grave heresies

>>631067

>How can you be a scientist and not believe in absolute truth?

Maybe absolute material truth. But not absolute moral truth. Everything is subjective :^)

>>631067

Just your brain on atheism

>>631093

You havve a childish understanding of God, as expected from a gnostic. You have reduced God to a glorified man. Because of the essence of God, God is the cause, source and standard of goodness and purpose. God defines morality, justice and purpose. You have just downgraded him because you are theologically lazy

>>631125

I did not you are just purposefully retarded

things are morally right or wrong because they are, and everything is because of god

but they are NOT right and wrong because a book says so, the book says so because they are right and wrong

What could be more convincing than for them to SEE our Lord in the flesh? Now you know what you must do. We must BECOME holy. We must be as walking, talking icons of Christ.

>>631091

No, I'm just a depressed office worker.

>>631093

>unless you mean it in the sense that god created everything, then it follows, but I dont think you mean it in that sense

But it is.

>>631097

>morality is doing whats right, not a system,

"Right" by whose definition? By what standard? For what purpose? Why should we care if it's either an evolutionary axiom or something consciously invented by man?

Also, morality is a system, it needs to be. Otherwise it is irrelevant.

>there can be systems involving morality (for example dont do all the things the bible says not to because it makes god cry, here is a guide to them)which you follow, but its not wrong because its in the list its in the list because its wrong

>subtle Euthyphro dilemma baiting.

Doesn't work when applied to monotheism.

And yet from the highest to the most "petty" of these laws there are actually, physical, natural repercussions for keeping or failing to keep them everything from shellfish poisoning to STDs to murder. It's almost like the Author knew what He was talking about.

>by your definition all the laws of man are grave heresies

No, only those that contravene or contradict Divine Law.

>>631127

>but they are NOT right and wrong because a book says so, the book says so because they are right and wrong

Again, it's both.

>>631203

Why are you depressed?

>>631222

I have some mental illnesses, it's hard for me to interact with other people, anxiety. Also, I don't think humans evolved to work 9 to 5 in some room, constantly dealing with stress, my work gets me sad too. It's what it is, I do what I must to survive, but it sucks.

>>631225

I see. Can I ask how this translates to wanting to be hedonistic, and how life is pointless?

Not trolling, I'm genuinely interested, and would like to see if we can help.

>>631034

There can be morality within absolute materialism. They are only amoral because they are materialistic on an abstracted level.

>>631034

For the other part, metaphysics is the only cure. But it doesn't necessarily conducts to Christianity. Yet it leads to religiosity when you manage it correctly.

sage for double posting

>>631227

>>631237

I feel good being hedonistic. What depresses me is the fact that life is doing a lot of stuff you don't want to do for a lot of time.

If I could simply started believing in Christianity (I can't), do you guys really think something would change? I would still have the same problems, but I would have even more responsibilities and fears. I don't see how that would help. I guess it helps and gives strength to a lot of people, I'm happy for them, I don't shit on anyone for being religious, but it's just not for me.

>>631260

>more fear

If you became Christian more fear is the last thing you would have. You might have more sorrow but that would be far outbalanced by the boundless joy you would receive from the grace of God.

>>631260

>I feel good being hedonistic.

>What depresses me is the fact that life is doing a lot of stuff you don't want to do for a lot of time.

It's bittersweet. You say that you are disappointed that you can't spend time doing more of what you enjoy, but you probably enjoy it more because you have that balance of work-play. If it was all play you might be saying something different right now.

Hedonism is a bottomless pit. It's not even worth it to go down that road, especially if you are mentally ill. Aim a little higher in life.

>If I could simply started believing in Christianity (I can't), do you guys really think something would change?

No doubt. Everything would change. Granted, it wouldn't happen overnight, and you will have to dig in and help yourself a lot too, but things will change. And you can. Belief is not a merely natural inclination as much as it is something to be kindled, to will it. And if you want it, you can will it.

>I would still have the same problems, but I would have even more responsibilities and fears. I don't see how that would help.

This is something that I found when I converted, that sudden moment of "Oh wait, obligations … fasting, mass, days of solemnity, …", and that's just the externals. You also have so streamline a lot of wicked notions and ideas. For me conversion threw on the brakes of my life and I began to really question everything I previously held without thinking too much about, or to challenge me to think about things I hadn't even considered, and a lot of dross was purged in that time, and it's a process which is still ongoing. But it's amazing how quickly into the swing of things you can get.

Obligations make a man. Obligations form a soul, they remind it not to be so selfish and that their egotism is ill founded. Most of all, it reminds you that you are part of a group, and the most extraordinary thing there is, the Church.

>I guess it helps and gives strength to a lot of people, I'm happy for them, I don't shit on anyone for being religious, but it's just not for me.

A lot of people say that, and like you simultaneously profess that they are miserable and fed up, as though there is no connection. It is most certainly for you, and I pray that you will by the Grace of God come to realise this.

>>631225

>>631260

>I am a victim of """mental illness""" and """anxiety"""

>Also, God's not real, he's just like a fairy tale that people believe in to make themselves feel better

>I'm depressed cause I don't get what I want!

>also because I have to do stuff I don't wanna do!

Have fun with an ultimately meaningless existence. You sound like a classic narcissist btw.

>>631282

A bit harsh if not untrue. Sounds A LOT like me a year ago tbh.

>>631034

I have tried to convince them for years. Not a single one of them have opened their hearts.

I am bitter by it, but I come to the realization that they can only be saved if they want to be saved, and since none I have met do, they are all damned.