/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Read this

https://heroicvirtuecreations.com/2012/11/26/an-eastern-orthodox-christian-looks-west/

>>629384

Misleading article from an "Orthodox" Christian looking for a reason to kneel to the latins. Comes dangerously close to false witness I think.

Read these

https://fr.scribd.com/document/352385644/Filioque-Siecienski

https://www.amazon.com/Papacy-Orthodox-Sources-Historical-Theology/dp/0190245255

to have a decent understanding of the disputes that separate us.

Until then, attend both Divine Liturgy and Mass. You can't just read yourself into Christianity.

>>629388

It's very rude to question that he's actually Orthodox. Please do not do that.

>>629384

>I had completely dismissed the Roman Catholic view point. I had not investigated it as I had the Orthodox faith. I had not read their catechism, their apologetics, or their patristic evidence. I had not tried to look at Catholicism on its own merits. Everything I knew about Catholicism I learned from Orthodox sources (save of course, those basic things my pious friends taught me). Why did I do this? I had actually rejected something without first understanding it—and I had rejected it according to my own wisdom, not the wisdom of our forefathers and mothers.

That was absurdly dumb. If you're going to reject something, understand it first.

>Fr. Fortescue, while affirming the authority of Holy Tradition, also convinced me of the necessity of a living authority. It was a new concept I had never before considered

What does he think his bishop is? Just a janitor who does administrative stuff?

>They respond and say “The Orthodox Church teaches that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone.” Yes, this is the doctrine of St. Photios. But do you not know, oh my brother, that St. Gregory of Cyprus has a different doctrine?

… They don't have different doctrines. But Gregory of Cyprus elaborates on Photius, Maximus the Confessor, and John of Damascus. And Gregory Palamas elaborates on Gregory of Cyprus.

Reading further on, he just sounds like an Orthodox Christian who received bad catechesis and probably didn't ask his priest every question he poses there.

But, feel free to read it anyway, OP.

>>629391

I'll call out the lukewarm when I see them. He's clearly a confused man and keeps applying his own hangups to the Orthodox church and other protestant converts.

>>629382

I'm Protestant, but I agree with Catholics on probably 90% of everything.

>>629398

> posts Puritans celebrating

I wouldn't think about that too hard, much the same way as I like might like pagans represented in artwork too

>>629397

What're things you agree and disagree with?

Which denomination do you affiliate with?

We have this thread every week

>>629408

>every week

I disagree: I flicked over the archives for the past month and a bit but couldn't find any threads.

Feel free to cite/link to one though

>>629382

Bergoglio appears to be a heretic so I would advise against joining his sect.

>>629403

>What're things you agree and disagree with?

A few key things. Veneration, papal infalliability to name some.

>Which denomination do you affiliate with?

I don't even know anymore. I'm closest to Lutheran, theologically, but in practice I'm just your everyday raised-in-church Christian.

>>629410

>>616815

>>629398

>>629440

cheers.

I am still interested if any one else has anecdotes or thoughtful commentary to provide

>>629431

On the filioque: I'd argue that the issue was more precisely with the ecumenicity or lack thereof of the council at Constantinople in 879-880. It ended the Photian Schism, but its proceedings were lost in the West during the Gregorian Reform and the council of 869-870 was recognized as ecumenical instead, thanks to its useful canons as well. This would be a minor issue if the council of 879-880 didn't anathematize the council of 869-870 as well as anybody who adds to the creed in its 381 form (but it also recognizes certain Catholic claims that may disturb the Orthodox).

Theologically, the issue comes down to whether the Son can be called "cause" in Greek of the Holy Spirit. Florence says yes, and that opens a can of worms.

On clerical celibacy: The only real issue is Byzantine autism when faced with a practice they don't do themselves. Same goes for clerical beards (or lack thereof).

On azymes: I don't think this really was founded on the Pope's authority… The Armenians used unleavened bread first, the Byzantines simply attacked anyone who did the same as Appollinarianists.

On Purgatory: I don't know enough about the history of the controversy of Purgatory to make a comment on it.

>>629431

I'm leaning more and more towards Orthodoxy and for reasons other than the question of papacy and the filioque. I simply am more attracted to Orthodox theology on a number of issues. They seem more sound and intuitive, less conducive to skepticism and Lutheran/Protestant critiques.

I do admire much about Catholicism and I get the argument for why they claim a need for papacy and the hierarchical monarchical structure that leads them to God. It's a pretty impressive idea if you think that Christ actually founded an active living monarchical crypto-state to exist in the world.

The papacy is supposed to safeguard against the potential problems of caesaro-papism (Christianity becoming a tool of the state, the easy example Catholics bring up is the ROC being subservient to Putin etc). That said, what the heck was Vatican 2 and Pope Francis? Sure, they're not subservient to a state but they do seem to be subservient to something that isn't Catholic.

tl;dr I think Orthodox theology is more attractive, despite respecting much of Catholicism and even Baptism

read this

http://christianityinview.com/comparison.html

>>629776

Yeah, as an outsider trying to take it all in (Orthodoxy v. Roman) I'm trying to grok Vat 2 and it's implications.

Did you have any books, lectures or interviews which swung you more towards Orthodoxy?

>>629776

I'd note that the Three Holy Hierarchs are also highly regarded in Catholicism, so we have the same basis for theology.

OP, when you have the time I'd recommend reading the Church Fathers.

Figure out which church falls more in line with their interpretation of the scripture and you're golden.

>>629841

Catholic-Orthodox schism mending when?

>>629852

Some Orthodox bishops returned to the Catholic Church in full communion, and they are now the different Eastern Rites of Catholicism. The sad truth is that, when that's happened, the laity of the Ortho church get all up-in-arms and say "well screw that guy and the Church! We'll appoint our own bishop! With blackjack, and hookers!"

If tomorrow all of the bishops and patriarchs of the Eastern Ortho churches returned into full communion with Rome, that's exactly what would happen.

>>629871

>my Bishop commits apostasy

> i don't want to go to his church

seems like a fairly reasonable response to me