/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>623442

>Pro tip: Muhammad didn’t necessarily deny the crucifixion, he just said it was not their will (Jews) who crucified him. But the will of God.

That was Muhammad who said that? I thought you believed it was God.

But what it says is "they crucified him not".

>without using Hadith or Gospels

Why? If your a Muslim and I'm a Christian why are we using neither of our holy books? Don't get me wrong, I know Hadith isn't on the level of the Quran, but if you straight up don't care about them you're a Prot version of a Muslim so I can just wait till you apostatize on your own

>>623442

>without using Hadith or Gospels

Yeah no, you don't just get to set arbitrary rules of engagement here moslem infidel.

>>623442

>Muslim here.

I have my doubts.

>Just the Quran

So, you're a Quranist?

>>623445

This is why you will personally never convert a single person in thousand years

>>623446

I have quranist tendencies yes

>>623442

Muslims hold the Gospel to be sacred text. Torah, Psalms, Gospel, and Qur'an are the Islamic sacred texts. So, if I can't use Gospel, can I use Psalms?

>>623448

If you're Quranist, then you're not Muslim. Quran tells you to follow the prophet, which means following the Sunnah. If you cast out the Sunnah, then you cast out Quran. If you cast out Quran, then you negate your Islam.

Come on over and join us. You'll be very well received.

>>623449

Yes

>Muslim here. Prove to me how Muhammad was a false prophet, without using Hadith or Gospels. Just the Quran.

But Quran says that Bible is tue

And believe in that I have sent down, confirming that which IS with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And sell not My signs for a little price; and fear you Me. S. 2:41

And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers. S. 2:89 Shakir

And when they were told, 'Believe in that God has sent down,' they said, 'We believe in what was sent down on us'; and they disbelieve in what is beyond that, yet it is the truth confirming what IS with them. Say: 'Why then were you slaying the Prophets of God in former time, if you were believers?' S. 2:91

Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel – for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which IS before it and guidance and good news for the believers. S. 2:97 Shakir

But then funny thing happen. For quran says:

Sura 5:18

And (both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are the children of Allah and His loved ones." Say: "Why then does He punish you for your sins?" Nay, you are but human beings, of those He has created, He forgives whom He wills and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and to Him is the return (of all).

And yet the Bible say:

Deut. 32:6

Is this the way you repay the LORD, O foolish and unwise people? Is he not your Father, your Creator, who made you and formed you?

Thus Quran says that Bible is true but Bible says that Quran is false. Is Bible is true, Quran is false. If Bible is false, quran is false.

>>623442

Uhhh, I actually can't. I can explain why christianity is more wholesome than islam though, if you want to listen.

>>623452

The Torah, he says that is true. But the gospels? The New Testament?

>>623455

The children of god point doesn’t convince me, give me something else

>>623442

>Prove to me how Muhammad was a false prophet, without using Hadith or Gospels. Just the Quran

Quran is like 16% of muslim doctrine, the rest is Hadit and Sira, but since you don't want us to use these in argumentation, we would practically fail in proving you wrong. It's like arguing about divinity and messianism of Christ without using the Gospels, but only the Torah.

>>623462

Wrong. Hadith are not divinely inspired except for a tiny few.

>>623461

That is way too badly researched I’ve watched it

>>623457

>1 John 4 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesusa is not from God.

Do you not consider the Torah/ the old testament as part of the bible?

Protestant Muslim here. Hadiths…some people made up stories about Mohammed to validate their BS. Thankfully I don't live in the Middle East so I'm allowed free thought and will and women aren't property I cover with a tarp. Ma! The meatloaf! Where is it!!!???

>>623465

What was wrong with it?

>>623467

It's a pretty simple formula with Muslims.

Holy texts: Torah, Psalms, Gospel, Quran

However, if anything in Torah, Psalms, or Gospel contradicts something in Quran, then Quran is to be used as the authority. This is because they believe the older texts to be corrupted and Quran is the "correction", as it were.

I suspect, however, that OP is just trying to troll, especially with the rejection of the Sunnah. I wouldn't think about it too much. Probably just got kicked out of /islam/ and lost his audience.

>>623481

It's in same family as a Sunni Shintoist or Or a Zen Amish

>>623459

>Quran stating that Bible, that says that God is the Father, is True while also saying that God is NOT the Father is not enough.

How about Quran lying about world around you?

Chapter 18:86 says: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found [Wajada] it set in a spring of murky water.

Or Qur’an 37:6-10—We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars—(for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits, (so) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side, repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty, except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming Fire, of piercing brightness.

Qur’an 67:5—And We have (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with lamps, and We have made such (lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7

Why do you think he was a prophet? I struggle to see anything impressive about the man.

When you read about Jesus, you can't help but be awed by him.

When you read about Mohammed, he just seems like a guy.

>>623511

he liked cats tho

prophet material to me

>>623511

>When you read about Mohammed, he just seems like a guy.

That's actually the whole point of the Sunnah. Worshiping a Prophet is idolatry. Muhammad was just a guy with a message, not a divine figure to be venerated.

>>623481

He probably just means a Quranist

>>623457

>And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).

>>623538

Best joke since the invention of islime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_LjZZ-mGt0

call in on skype: DebateTV

Christian Arab

>>623447

I've converted people before, including a Muslim, and I agree with him.

>>623447

If a pedophile warlord with no miracles and prophecies who misquotes the Bible is enough for you, I think that rightfully pointing to the importance of Muhammad's example as recorded by the earlies muslims is quite above what you are used to.

>>623444

Muslims developed what they called Elm Al Kalam, which is basically how to argue for Islam without using any religious source material, Islamic or not.

This way you can argue for your religion without setting a source not necessary everyone believes in.

>>623718

>Elm Al Kalam

Is that Arabic for "beheading"?

>>623723

So Christians can't discuss and can only insult others?

>>623724

Muslims can't discuss and can only behead others. Your false religion was spread by and lives by the sword and nothing more.

>>623442

Read the Bible.

>>623442

I can play that game. Prove to me Jesus wasn't crucified and didn't rise from the dead, without using Hadith or Quran, only the Gospels.

>>623474

>This is because they believe the older texts to be corrupted and Quran is the "correction", as it were.

Funny, because this is exactly how Mormons approach the Bible as well (I'm not Mormon).

>>623442

>Prove to me how Muhammad was a false prophet

he was a pedo goatfucker

>>623538

Are all Muslims doing it wrong then? lol.

>>623442

Because of all the prophets send down by the God of Abraham, which you (and Mohammed) claim to worship, not one was a ruthless conqueror like Mohammed.

They also were all Jewish.

>>623442

>without using Hadith or Gospels. Just the Quran.

>prove me something

>but without proof

Stupid trolls

Muslim consider Jesus a prophet but basically invalidate everything that made Jesus himself, which you can easily argue means they don't really consider him a prophet at all. Muslims consider Christians people of the book but believe their religion was somehow corrupted or imperfect, and this is another cop-out that fails to address the fundamental divide between Islam and Christianity, that is Jesus claiming himself YAHWEH. Muslim tolerance for Christianity, to the sad little extent Muslims actually do tolerate Christians, only exists because Muslims have invented an entirely different person as their own Jesus. The real Christian Jesus would be considered a heretic in the highest form according to Islam, which is precisely why they deny the crucifixion and resurrection. It's simply not true that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all fall under one umbrella and that Islam is the most perfected religion within that circle or timeline. Muslims have entirely skipped over Jesus and the notion that they're continuing the continuity of Abrahamic religion is false, if they have they have only branched off of Judaism.