25f826 No.619551
>Accept a free gift
>Okay now all I have to do is work for it
Guess the blood of Christ doesn't buy much these days.
d0a707 No.619553
>le faith vs works false dichotomy
>what you believe and how you live are two separate things
024571 No.619555
>Here have this free pet. I will check on it in future
>Okay now all I have to is absolutely nothing
Guess the grace of Christ isn't alive much these days.
>>619553
It's not faith vs works. It's faith and works vs faith alone
25f826 No.619576
>>619555
>I know your sins are covered but, you didn't do works so can't let you in.
Kek
25f826 No.619580
Romans 3:26
It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Galatians 3:11
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Titus 3:5
He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 5:18
Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.
Romans 5:1-2
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Galatians 3:6
Just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Romans 4:25
Who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Romans 3:24-25
And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
25f826 No.619582
>>619580
Romans 3:28
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Galatians 2:16
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Romans 5:1
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Romans 4:3
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
James 2:23
And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
Romans 3:20
For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Romans 4:1-25
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousnes
Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Galatians 3:24
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Romans 3:22
The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Romans 4:16
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,
Romans 3:24
And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Romans 9:30
What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
Acts 10:43
To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
Romans 5:9
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
b7943f No.619587
>>619555
Its more like if you actually have faith, you will work.
beee4b No.619591
>>619580
Whoever loves me shall keep my commandement.
a442f9 No.619592
Faith is the only thing that saves however if you truly have faith, you will do good things as well.
/discussion
525052 No.619594
>>619551
Yeah pelagianism is indeed a heresy. The works of man can never earn salvation which is a gift.
Those darn pelagians don't understand the justification by faith and works is a gift from God so they rely on themselves rather than let God work through them.
525052 No.619595
>>619592
Faith doesn't save m8. God's grace saves. Stop trying to earn salvation, faith is justification: a gift from God that shows you have accept the grace of salvation.
25f826 No.619599
>Its more like if you actually have faith, you will work.
>>619591
25f826 No.619600
>>619591
also one paraphrased passage without an address please leave while the adults are talking.
a442f9 No.619608
>>619595
Yes this is what I meant but english is not my first language so I didn't know how to word it. Thanks for clearing it up!
525052 No.619609
>>619599
It's more like if you are in a state of grace then you will have faith and work
b885c5 No.619611
>>619576
>Laughing at Christ
For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. And these shall go into everlasting punishment
>>619582
>>619580
So much verses and yet not a single one says anything about faith alone being in any form salvific.
8632c2 No.619620
>>619551
>For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
But I thought all I have to do is believe? Is Christ lying? Should I listen to him or pastor Leroy?
25f826 No.619623
>>619611
>So much verses and yet not a single one says anything about faith alone being in any form salvific.
You might be missing the word "believe" look for it in the versus.
>For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me. And these shall go into everlasting punishment
Can I get address for this one? Also this isn't a clear statement, looks like you can translate it multiple ways.
25f826 No.619628
>>619620
And where is this found the bibe my good friend? Address pls, sounds Jesus is exaggerating, wouldn't surprise me, he's done it before.
7e03df No.619637
>>619611
Matthew 7:22-23
<22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
<23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
8e029a No.619646
>>619551
Before Jesus how did people went in to heaven?
By doing good deeds and repenting of sins? because if so, it's pretty much the same thing and Jesus seems superfluous.
b885c5 No.619661
>>619623
>You might be missing the word "believe" look for it in the versus.
And yet, nowher "believe only" is to be found
>Can I get address for this one?
Matthew 25
>Also this isn't a clear statement, looks like you can translate it multiple ways.
It is clear as the sun and variances in translation are only words used, sense is always the same
>>619637
>Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved. How then shall they call on him, in whom they have not believed?
>have we not prophesied in thy name?
And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
>and in thy name have cast out devils?
And he called the twelve (…) And they cast out many devils
> and in thy name done many wonderful works?
If you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, Remove from hence hither, and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible to you.
><23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
23 And a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them:
24 Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.
25 But when the master of the house shall be gone in, and shall shut the door, you shall begin to stand without, and knock at the door, saying: Lord, open to us. And he answering, shall say to you: I know you not, whence you are.
26 Then you shall begin to say: We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 And he shall say to you: I know you not, whence you are: depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
610fef No.619667
>We believe a man to be not simply justified through faith alone, but through faith which works through love, that is to say, through faith and works. But [the idea] that faith can fulfill the function of a hand that lays hold on the righteousness which is in Christ, and can then apply it unto us for salvation, we know to be far from all Orthodoxy. For faith so understood would be possible in all, and so none could miss salvation, which is obviously false. But on the contrary, we rather believe that it is not the correlative of faith, but the faith which is in us, justifies through works, with Christ. But we regard works not as witnesses certifying our calling, but as being fruits in themselves, through which faith becomes efficacious, and as in themselves meriting, through the Divine promises {cf. 2 Corinthians 5:10} that each of the Faithful may receive what is done through his own body, whether it be good or bad.
610fef No.619668
>>619646
Nobody went to Heaven before Jesus…
0a190a No.619676
>2 Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue…
>WAIT WAIT WAIT
>What I REALLY mean by this is that Faith lives alone. Forget everything else.
>Luke 13:24 Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
>Wait, uhh, I think that's the wrong message
>What I'm saying is that getting to heaven is easy
>Acts 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.
>(Tribulations as in faith, shhhhh)
>Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
>Wait why am I saying fear and trembling? The door to heaven doesn't need fear, just have faith in me.
>Matthew 7:26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand
>…
c2579a No.619680
>>619668
Elijah ascended to Heaven on a chariot of fire, pre-Jesus. Your move, son.
610fef No.619686
>>619680
Elijah and Enoch went to Heaven, body and soul, while still alive. But nobody went to Heaven after dying.
d426f2 No.619689
>>619686
Moving the goalposts? Moving the goalposts.
1dd670 No.619707
>>619628
>Where is it?
Lazy to use search engine or what? Matthew 5:20
>sounds Jesus is exaggerating,
Jesus said something that contradicts my belief so he was probably exaggerating.
Kek. The absolute state of sola fide.
>>619676
How will prots ever recover.
1dd670 No.619709
You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not only by faith.
James 2:24
What did they mean by this???
0a190a No.619711
>>619709
>QUOUTING JAMES 2
STUOP.
>James 2:15-17 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
THOSE VERSES PROVE THAT JAMES IS TALKING ABOUT PROVING YOURSELF TO OTHER PEOPLE, NOT GOD.
I MEAN WHY WOULD GOD CARE IF YOU ACTUALLY FED THE GUYS YOU SAID YOU WOULD FEED? IT SHOULD STILL COUNT.
Before you ask, yes, that's a actual argument used by Protestants here
31f251 No.619712
>>619711
>needing to "prove" yourself to an omniscient God
860e00 No.619713
>>619709
It obviously means the opposite of what it says, proof: look at the pope's fish hat!
b885c5 No.619749
>>619689
>Moving the goalposts.
>>619646 clearly speaks about going to heaven after death
0a190a No.619838
>>619712
>Don't do works because you "don't need to"
>Virtue starts falling for some reason
fc0ac1 No.619846
>>619551
That album wasn't even bad.
610fef No.619855
>>619846
>Self-inflicted
>What'd you tell them? I just told them Hell's existence
Was he a Christian all along?
5c7f56 No.619870
faith without works is dead
fc0ac1 No.619875
>>619855
He also says
>To pray is to accept defeat
But what if he's SURRENDERING TO GOD'S LOVE?
t. mental gymnastics
Ride is clearly a sort of gnostic, pagan-ish guy, but still, he's a great musician. Hope he does it for the aesthetic but that after Death Grips he turns into a Christian.
That would be cool
610fef No.619885
>>619875
From both his lyrics and his interaction with some fans, he's clearly an occultist who takes a bit of every mystical movement he finds. Just look at his tattoos - magick, Christianity, Islam, gnosticism, possibly Kabaalism, Satanism, and more things I must have missed.
I want him to become Orthodox and DG to make an album with an Orthodox flavor. Something like the album Litourgiya but more DG.
8e029a No.619909
>>619749
So… all people before Jesus went to hell?
0a190a No.619915
>>619909
Through Abraham, a special place was made that wasn't horrifying hellfire, and saved people went there. It wasn't heaven though.
610fef No.619923
>>619909
Where else do you think they went?
What do you think the Harrowing of Hell even was?
fa8b61 No.619943
25f826 No.619996
>>619551
>>619676
>John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
>Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.
>John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
>Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
>Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
>Romans 9:30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith
Whoa… Jesus is lying….
a23543 No.619999
>>619555
Salvation isn't a pet you dingus. And either way if you want to compare it to that then if the guy then takes the pet away from you dor not taking care of it then it wasn't an everlasting free gift.
a23543 No.620002
Verses proving salvation to anyone that believes and not of works.
https://youtu.be/V8xZTVKx0Dc
John
1:12
3:15-16/18/36
4:14(John 6:35)
5:24
6:28-29/35/38-40/44-45/47
7:38-39
8:24
10:27-29
11:25-27/40
12:46
14:1-3
16:27
20:31
Matthew
5:19
7:21-23(John 6:38-40)
8:10-13
12:37
21:31-32
Mark
1:15
2:5
10:24-25
16:16
Luke
3:3(Acts 19:4)
5:20
7:50
8:12
18:10-14/40-42
23:40-43
Acts
2:21
10:43
11:16-17
13:38-39/48
15:7-9
16:30-31
19:4(Luke 3:3)
26:18
Romans
1:16-17
3:20/22/24-28/30
4:2-14/16/24
5:1/15-18
6:23
8:24
9:30-33
10:3-4/9-10/13
11:6
1 Corinthians
1:14/17
3:14-15
15:1-2
2 Corinthians
4:13-14
1 Thessalonians
4:14
2 Thessalonians
1:10
2:12
Ephesians
1:13-14
2:8-9
4:7
Galatians
2:16/21
3:6-11/14/21-22/24/26
5:3-6
Philippians
3:3/9
Titus
3:5
1 Timothy
1:16
2 Timothy
1:9
3:15
Hebrews
4:3
10:38-39
11:7
1 Peter
1:3-5/8-9
2:6
3:21(Colossians 2:12)
1 John
4:2-3/15
5:1/4-5/10-11/13
Revelation
2:11
3:5/20-21
21:7/27
25f826 No.620003
>>619709
>>619707
>>619676
>>619667
>>619661
Here my unsaved friends.
>>619996
I took the easiest ones to understand, if you don't get it then all you need to do is put all your Faith in Jesus and get that holy spirit living inside you.
>It's easy :^)
25f826 No.620005
>>620002
Oooooh, more. Cool.
a23543 No.620008
597f00 No.620058
>>619551
Yeah. Cuz you don't have to cooperate with your own salvation or anything. The Holy Spirit just forces you to believe in Jesus and then everything is fine.
c8638c No.620214
>>619711
>You need both faith and works….James 2:24
STOB IT!!!!ALWAYS DA James 2:24 YOU PUT WORKS OVER FAITH.
>Never said that I said that faith is the basis on which the deeds are built. Both are essential
NO YOU SAID YOURE SAVED THROUGH DEEDS ONLY!
>Just quote me where exactly I did so.
YOU BELIEVE THE WORKS ARE END ALL BE ALL. WE BELIEVE WORKS ARE FRUITS OF FAITH. YOU DONT NEED DEEDS BECAUSE THEY ARE PART OF FAITH OTHERWISE THE FAITH IS DEAD.
>So you do say there are both faith and deeds that come from true faith then?
NO ONLY FAITH. WE WUZ DA TRUE CHURCH CUZ POPE AND INDULGENCES.
Before you accuse me of just being mean this is an actual conversation I had with one Prot.
b885c5 No.620226
>>620002
None of those verses do that though.
b885c5 No.620230
>>620003
My dear unsaved friend on the road to Hellfire eternal. None of those verses support faith alone.
John 6 says that Eucharist is necessary to salvation.
Titus 3 says same about baptism (in the versy same verse that you quote even)
John 5 is speaking about hearing word of God and if you ever really read thy Bible you would know what "To hear" means. Especially considering v. 29.
Mark 16 says, again, that baptism is neccesarry for salvation.
Romans 6 as above speaks about neccesirity of baptism.
And finally Romans 9 says that NOONE, save God, have knowlage who is saved. If Moses had no such knowlege nor do we.
And since you have such poor reading skills I will cite the easiest and most complete verses about salvation so that you might have a slight chance to understand it.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision:'
but faith that worketh by charity.
fa8b61 No.620233
>>620214
>*autistic screeching*: the post
07b16b No.620241
>>620002
UNLIMITED PROOFTEXT WORKS
179aed No.620261
>>619996
>Mother comes home and tells me to turn off the light when I leave the house
>Mother leaves, remembers me to clean my clothes before I go to sleep
>Next day she asks why I didn't clean my clothes
>B-but you said only had to turn off the lights once, so I can ignore the other thing you said about cleaning my clothes
>
25f826 No.620282
>>620261
Whoa… Jesus is lying…
25f826 No.620283
>>620210
I know it's hard to understand the Bible when you're unsaved but really just read the verses out loud, maybe it will help.
25f826 No.620285
>>620214
Okay thanks for your autistic spurge of rage.
25f826 No.620298
>>620230
>Mark 16
does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The short answer is, no, it does not. In order to make it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says. What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with the countless verses where only belief is mentioned (e.g., John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). This verse is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.
While this verse tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would be necessary, viz., “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.
Those who try to use Mark 16:16 to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation commit a common but serious mistake that is sometimes called the Negative Inference Fallacy. This is the rule to follow: “If a statement is true, we cannot assume that all negations (or opposites) of that statement are also true." For example, the statement “a dog with brown spots is an animal” is true; however, the negative, “if a dog does not have brown spots, it is not an animal” is false. In the same way, “he who believes and is baptized will be saved” is true; however, the statement “he who believes but is not baptized will not be saved” is an unwarranted assumption. Yet this is exactly the assumption made by those who support baptismal regeneration.
Consider this example: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, but those that do not believe are condemned." This statement is strictly true; Kansans who believe in Jesus will be saved. However, to say that only those believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption. The statement does not say a believer must live in Kansas in order to go to heaven. Similarly, Mark 16:16 does not say a believer must be baptized. The verse states a fact about baptized believers (they will be saved), but it says exactly nothing about believers who have not been baptized. There may be believers who do not dwell in Kansas, yet they are still saved; and there may be believers who have not been baptized, yet they, too, are still saved.
>John 6
>I have to say magic words and do a ritual to get to heaven
Absolutely pagan, it's about rememberance not getting to heaven though works.
>Titus 3:5
>I have to do a special ritual to get to heaven
It doesn't say that.
>John 5
You completely missed the point of this verse lol
>Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
>I need dat ritual to be saved meme
You really need to read the Bible on your own, without Catholic doctrine making you completely blinded to the truth.
>Romans 9
Again, you completely missed the point of the verse….
>Also revealing the fact that your mad
Lol
f32288 No.620305
>when you are a murderer but its ok cuz you believe in Christ
25f826 No.620311
>>620305
>And Jesus said unto them, if your a murderer you can't be saved!
Yeah it would've been funny if he said that lol
c8638c No.620314
>>620283
>Claims to know exactly who's unsaved and who's saved
>Considers playing 'autism' card to be an argument
>Does not address Matthew or James
See this is just pathetic.
This is the level of screeching I mocked thank you for confirming it.
b885c5 No.620343
>>620298
>does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The short answer is
Yes.
"He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved"
In order to make it teach that baptism is not required for salvation, one must go against what the verse actually says. What this verse does teach is that belief and baptism is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with the countless verses where baptism is mentioned (e.g., John 3; Titus 3; Romans 6; 1 Peter 3; Coloss 2).
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). This verse is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.
This verse tells us something about believers who have been baptized so they are saved, it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized for they are saved not (John 3). In order for this verse to teach that baptism is not necessary for salvation, a third statement would be necessary, viz., “He who believes and is not baptized will be saved” or “He who is not baptized will not be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse morover, they go against John 3 which clearly teaches that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.
Those who try to use Mark 16:16 to teach that baptism is not necessary for salvation commit a common but serious mistake that iscalled protestantism. This is the rule to follow: “If a statement is true but it goes against my dogma it cannot be true so we ignore it." For example, the statement “baptism now saves you” is true; however, some protestants say that baptism does not save you” which is false and goes against Scripture. So protestants ignore it. In the same way they ignore John 3, Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” and they say “he who believes but is not baptized will be saved”. Yet this is exactly the assumption made by those who are aginast baptismal regeneration which is clear from Titus 3 which actualy call baptism "laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost"
Consider this example: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, but those that do not believe are condemned." This statement is strictly true; To be saved one must live in Kansans and believe in Jesus will be saved. To say that only those believers who live in Kansas and belive are saved is an logical and true assumption that flows from the text itself. The statement does say a believer must live in Kansas in order to go to heaven. Similarly, Mark 16:16 does say a believer must be baptized. The verse states a fact about salvation - you must be baptized and belive (then you will be saved). That's the conditions, met them or perish it's your choice. There may be believers who do not dwell in Kansas, yet they will not be saved; and there may be believers who have not been baptized, yet they, too, are still not saved for Lord is clear as the Sun - Unless you are born of water and Spirt you will not enter kingdom of Heaven.
b885c5 No.620346
>>620343
>Absolutely pagan, it's about rememberance not getting to heaven though works.
<Calling Christ our Lord magician
Truly we are Body of Christ for we are persecuted in the same way Christ was.
Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.
>It doesn't say that.
He saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost.
>You completely missed the point of this verse lol
Amen, amen I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live. 'And they that have done good things, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life'; but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.
>You really need to read the Bible on your own, without Catholic doctrine making you completely blinded to the truth.
3 Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death?
4 For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin may be destroyed, to the end that we may serve sin no longer.
7 For he that is dead is justified from sin.
You really need to read the Bible on your own, without Protestant doctrine making you completely blinded to the truth.
>Again, you completely missed the point of the verse….
For he saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; and I will shew mercy to whom I will shew mercy. Therefore he hath mercy on whom he will; and whom he will, he hardeneth.
hou wilt say therefore to me: Why doth he then find fault? for who resisteth his will? O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it: Why hast thou made me thus?
>Lol
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision:
but faith that worketh by charity.
>>620311
Yeah that wou… Oh wait. He did.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are murders. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.
But the murderers they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Blessed are they that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb: that they may have a right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. Without are murderers.
b885c5 No.620361
>>620346
On second thought, I already said essentials two times and since it's limit that Paul sets for dealing with heretics and it's Holy season of Lent, I will leave it here. I hope that you will be saved and you will workout your slavation in Body of Christ.
25f826 No.620412
>>620343
>>620346
>>620361
Completely blinded, to the point of hateful foolishness and being unable to understand the simplest scriptures, you believe in the Catholic god, not the God of the Bible, you use his words yet can't use them in the right context because you don't understand them and most of them are made to rebuke false teachers like you. I guess it's true what the Bible says
>matthew 7:13 enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
I hope your dirty rags work, for your own. sake.
25f826 No.620420
>>620361
>Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
>Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
>Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
>John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
>Galatians 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
I leave you with some final words.
Hopefully the Catholic Church hasn't cucked you and told you that these verses mean something they dont.
179aed No.620433
>>620420
>Mother comes home and tells me to turn off the light when I leave the house
>Mother leaves, remembers me to clean my clothes before I go to sleep
>Next day she asks why I didn't clean my clothes
>B-but you said only had to turn off the lights once, so I can ignore the other thing you said about cleaning my clothes
>
2600ce No.620770
>>620420
>Completely blinded, to the point of hateful foolishness and being unable to understand the simplest scriptures
The scripture says:
"He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved"
Let's see how you stand behind your 'sola scriptura'.
Basic logic. Two statements, one outcome.
Logic gate AND:
The output is "true" when BOTH inputs are "true." Otherwise, the output is "false."
Example: If you come to me on monday and show me the homework, I will give you money. If you fulfill BOTH you get the money. If you do the homework, show it on tuesday you do not get them. If you come without homework, you do not get them.
Another example: "He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved"
Logic gate OR
The output is "true" if either or both of the inputs are "true." If both inputs are "false," then the output is "false."
Example: If you come to me on monday or show me the homework, I will give you money. If you fulfill ONE OR BOTH you get the money. If you do the homework, show it on tuesday you will get them. If you come without homework, you will get them.
Another example: "He that believeth or is baptized, shall be saved"
Now show me translation where OR is used, not AND. This is basic logic, not twisting anything.
John 3; Titus 3; Romans 6; 1 Peter 3; Coloss 2 also support this.
So much for sola scriptura. kek.
basically it means I want to twist the scripture the way I want, then proclaim superiority and bash catholics.
>Hateful
>Blinded
>believe in Catholic God not in God of Bible
d55213 No.620772
>>620003
Hey dude. I think there was a verse that explicitely states that we are justified by faith alone. Could you go to biblehub and search "justified by faith alone"? I can't right now.
2600ce No.620773
>>620770
This was meant for
>>620412
It got posted before I finished.
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). This verse is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.
2 does not imply that you only need to believe. It implies that if you do not believe you're not saved.
the word AND is quite crucial. If OR was used you would be right in your assumptions. However OR is not used so I do not see your point.
Saying somebody believes in 'da catholic God' 'is hateful' is not an argument.
53d35c No.620774
also the idea that faith is simply our agreement to a historical narrative about Christ, believing in scripture, believing he died for our sins and believing this causes righteousness to be imputed to us and thus purify us in God's eyes is totally non-scriptural and non-Christian, because faith is not simply an opinion you hold, as most protestants take it these days, specially the baptists. THey go around door to door thinking they can save people by changing their opinions and historical narratives. sad.
agreeing to thoughts can not save anyone anymore than the hypocrites who verbalize "Lord, Lord" to Christ but have not been born of again of water and born anew and become as children.
For there is nothing salvific in having the right opinions just as there is nothing salvific in having good works
2600ce No.620780
>>620774
>Bbb-but there were mean popes
checkmate catholics.
53d35c No.620786
>>620780
are you quoting the right person?
e60991 No.620791
baptists are just lazy. Why would you want an excuse to get out of service?
2600ce No.620795
>>620786
Yes.
It was meant to mock the protestant reductio ad popum when other arguments fail.
4b895c No.620808
This just in: Pelagianism declared heresy about 1,587 years ago. Seriously, read a book, dude. The only time in all of scripture where the concept of faith alone is mentioned is a resounding condemnation of it in St. James 2:26 "For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead." Jesus literally tells you, in detail, what you have to do, during his Sermon on the Mount. From St. Matthew 7:14 "How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!"
505d94 No.620935
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>620808
Martin Luther and Frank the Hippie Pope Talk James 2
25f826 No.620988
>>620808
>Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
>>Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
>Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
>John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
>Galatians 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
>Seriously, read a book, dude.
the only book I read is the bible lol
25f826 No.620994
>>620770
>Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
>>Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
>Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
>John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
>Galatians 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
hmmmmmmmmmmm…………
25f826 No.620996
>>620780
>>620795
Wow…Catholics smart….
25f826 No.620998
>>620770
>John 3; Titus 3; Romans 6; 1 Peter 3; Coloss 2 also support this.
The church told you they support this, if you read them without the catholic church's lies they change completely, that's why we translate them differently, one you have to be taught the other the just read off the page as is.
609dfd No.621073
>accept a free bicycle
>misuse it and never air up the tires, oil the wheels or the chain, leave it out in the rain
<it's still a bicycle though teehee
869742 No.621120
>>620994
A simple question:
What does "justification" mean?
(sub-questions)
Can it mean to show the inward righteousness of a believer in Christ?
Can it mean to indicate that a believer has been made right with God?
869742 No.621125
>>620770
What baptism is being spoken of here?
What is baptism with water a sign of?
What is baptism into the death of Christ all about?
869742 No.621128
>>620774
What is "faith" concerning Jesus Christ exactly?
Where is the origin of "faith"?
Can anyone truly believe upon Jesus Christ unless "faith" is first experienced by Him?
fa8b61 No.621129
>>621120
>What does "justification" mean?
A verdict of acquittal.
>Can it mean to show the inward righteousness of a believer in Christ?
No.
>Can it mean to indicate that a believer has been made right with God?
fa8b61 No.621130
>>621120
>>621129
Forgot to answer that last one, the answer is yes
5e9622 No.621131
>you can obtain salvation before your death and judgement before God
Why do protestants assume this?
25f826 No.621149
>>621131
Probably cause the Bible implys it.
>John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
>Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
>John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
>Romans 3:22 The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
5e9622 No.621157
>>621149
And yet…
>Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. (Philippians 2:12)
>Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, (Hebrews 9:27)
25f826 No.621168
>>621157
>>Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, (Hebrews 9:27)
Well, yeah there's judgement after death, that doesn't mean you can't know if you are saved or not….
>Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. (Philippians 2:12)
well for this to be the way you want it to be the bible has to contradict its self, so it doesn't mean what you think it means.
25f826 No.621170
>>621120
The bible answers both those questions.
>Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
and
>Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
>What does "justification" mean?
the action of declaring or making righteous in the sight of God.
3c7d39 No.621192
>>619587
>>620003
In faith, one cannot help but do good works.
If it does not bear fruit, it's not faith.
I think that was Kierkegaard's point.
798ca3 No.621284
>>620994
>BTFO'd on baptism
>works vs faith
>Claims somebody pushes 'justification by works alone'
Nobody here claims that. Maybe Prots do.
>Hey those caths think they work their way to heaven therefore they disrespect the sacrifice. Well just because you think so that does not make it true.
You cannot separate works from faith because if you do have faith you do the works.
Still waiting for you to show me the translation where 'or' is used to support your 'baptism is not essential' thesis.
Sola scriptura all the way my brother.
798ca3 No.621286
>>620998
>that's why we translate them differently
All right never mind those. Debunk "He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved"
Show me the translation where 'or' is used to support your thesis. 'And' is quite clear indicator that both are essential.
>if you read them without the catholic church's lies they change completely
I do trust apostolic succession more tbh.
But stick to the quote mentioned. show me how this can mean baptism is not essential then we may have a talk about the catholic lies on John 3; Titus 3; Romans 6; 1 Peter 3; Coloss 2.
Nobody here made any effort to prove me wrong on this one. All you did:
>Muh catholic lies
>Spouting sola fide
If you do stand behind sola scriptura defend this particular quote. There should not be any problem, why deflect?
25f826 No.621316
>>621286
does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The short answer is, no, it does not. In order to make it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says. What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with the countless verses where only belief is mentioned (e.g., John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). This verse is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.
While this verse tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would be necessary, viz., “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.
4ece97 No.621319
>>621168
Or may, you know, the retarded protestants who know nothing about theology, the Bible, or Church, are wrong, in exactly the same way heretics have been declared to be wrong for millenia.
>>620988
>Your brain on protestantism
4ece97 No.621320
>>621316
Don't you learn? Sola scriptura only applies until they are asked to justify their retarded heresies, then, as you can see here >>621316 there are countless "this means" "this tells". It is amazing how all these posts contain extraordinary amounts of text that does not come from the Bible.
Of course, in a couple of years, their author will sya that wemust not care about the Bible, since it was compiled by the Church, joining the rest of the protestant insane fruits, like Anderson, mormonism or those who claimed that there was a God the Mother incarnated as a woman in Korea
898a7e No.621331
>>620770
>>621286
>He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved"
Yes, because he that believeth and does anything shall be saved, which lines up with John 3:15/16/18/36 unlike yours
609dfd No.621397
>>621073
>eventually the wheels, chains, and steering column get rusted shut, to say nothing of that one time you thought it would be funny to drop a 4 ton weight upon it so it's bent up
<why are you idiots conducting maintenance on your bike, that just means you don't trust in his gift and if he ever sees you riding it he's going to knock you off your bike and take it away
505d94 No.621406
>>621319
>Your brain on protestantism
Reading scripture?
5e9622 No.621410
>>621168
>well for this to be the way you want it to be the bible has to contradict its self, so it doesn't mean what you think it means.
Hol up. You said my interpretation is wrong without giving the correct one. Either you explain yourself or I'm forced to conclude you're being intellectually dishonest and deceptive.
b5e6b7 No.621426
>>619555
>It's not faith vs works. It's faith and works vs faith alone
this is backwards. The historic debate was because the church offered up """salvation""" in exchange for works(money). and the counterargument was that it's meaningless without faith AND ALSO that faith necessarily imply works.
It's no long a debate though, the catholics literally agree with luther's expressed position now, and you're all faggots.
5e9622 No.621429
>>621426
>the church offered up """salvation""" in exchange for works(money)
Source?
b5e6b7 No.621435
>>621429
Disputation of Doctor Martin Luther
on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences
What did you think the 95 theses were about?
f4f233 No.621437
>>621410
>there's no way my theology can stand as it is, but if you don't provide a alternative I'll stay on it because not providing one somehow makes you intellectually dishonest
Alright, pic related.
5e9622 No.621438
>>621435
>indulgences
>(in the Roman Catholic Church) a grant by the Pope of remission of the temporal punishment in purgatory still due for sins after absolution. The unrestricted sale of indulgences by pardoners was a widespread abuse during the later Middle Ages.
So, in other words, they weren't selling salvation. Good to know.
>>621437
>dude just believe me when I say you're wrong, I don't need to explain anything
Unfortunately I have a brain.
b5e6b7 No.621449
>>621438
I'm not sure a dictionary is the best way to gain a full understanding of a historical phenomenon.
You are correct though, they weren't selling salvation. But that's largely because it's literally impossible to do that, not for lack of trying, hence the "abuse" part of that definition.
5e9622 No.621454
>>621449
>But that's largely because it's literally impossible to do that, not for lack of trying, hence the "abuse" part of that definition.
But they never "tried" to sell salvation, hence there was no abuse committed in that regard. The "abuse" refers to the unrestricted sale of indulgences, which is something completely different.
b5e6b7 No.621456
>>621454
Oh, are you just trying to argue the semantics of what I said? Not really interested.
5e9622 No.621460
>>621456
>affirm things that aren't true
>get called out for it
>"hurrr you're arguing semantics"
b5e6b7 No.621485
>>621459
wew
>>620808
>16.All people are called by God to salvation in Christ. Through Christ alone are we justified, when we receive this salvation in faith. Faith is itself God's gift through the Holy Spirit who works through word and sacrament in the community of believers and who, at the same time, leads believers into that renewal of life which God will bring to completion in eternal life.
t. the vatican http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
0bf72e No.621521
>>621485
That is specifically referring to the Theological virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity which St. Paul references in his letters to the Corinthians (the greatest of these is charity). They are the virtues which are infused in us at baptism and they are impossible to gain or ascent to on our own; in other words, we can do *nothing* salvific on our own and we can only enter heaven by the grace of God. These three virtues cannot be attained or grown in by us, but God must give them to us (of course we may pray for them and Jesus tells us to do so and the Sacraments are the best way of growing in that sanctifying grace). They are tools which may be used by us in our own capacities according to our own states in life: meaning that we can respond to the graces which God gives us and work with Him to attain salvation and nothing else. The notion of having faith by yourself is absurd and arrogant as you are essentially by saying that nullifying Divine Revelation which we know through the Scriptures (which was officially compiled and made into what is known as the Bible today by the early Church) that it is impossible to know what God has revealed to us by natural means, unless of course one were to state that they are omniscient as God is and thus make themselves God; our fallen nature allows for such delusion, but it is doubtful that anyone would explicitly say that or let alone adhere to that belief when the absurdity is exposed to them. So yes, there is a universal call to holiness and through Christ alone we are redeemed as we are not able to attain salvation on our own and must completely trust in Him and work with Him in order to attain it; Faith is one of the three Theological Virtues given to us by God and we grow in all virtues through the Sacraments and prayer (the reception of/partaking in the sacraments and praying are works in themselves, unless one believes that putting their shoes on is the same as walking; again, fallen nature does allow for such delusion but the absurdities are seldom pointed out). Finally, yes we must be lead by God because we are so blind and wicked on our own (although inherently good, we have darkened intellects and our wills are compromised by what is called concupiscence) and would surely only damn our own souls to hell by our natural love for what is abominable in God's sight.
25f826 No.621563
>>621319
>Or may, you know, the retarded protestants who know nothing about theology, the Bible, or Church, are wrong, in exactly the same way heretics have been declared to be wrong for millenia.
Murders, pedophiles, idolaters, full of pride and deceit.
>Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
>Matthew 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mark 7:9 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
I do not follow the doctrines of men, I suggest you throw away what Christ is gonna burn when he comes back.
>Your brain on protestantism
More like
>Your brain on the holy spirit
25f826 No.621569
>>621320
>there are countless "this means" "this tells". It is amazing how all these posts contain extraordinary amounts of text that does not come from the Bible
I'm trying to help you understand what the verse means buddy, we were just talking about the meaning of mark 16:16.
I'm not telling you that it means something completely different.
>Of course, in a couple of years, their author will sya that wemust not care about the Bible, since it was compiled by the Church, joining the rest of the protestant insane fruits, like Anderson, mormonism or those who claimed that there was a God the Mother incarnated as a woman in Korea
Rambling..oh and those other verses just talk about what baptism means not that it's necessary for salvation (this would contradict other parts of the Bible) and yes it says you will be saved of course it does who would get baptized and not believe? And thus mark 16:16 clears that up for us.
f4f233 No.621571
>>621438
You realize you're the one that is avoiding having to explain how your definition of Hebrews 9:27 doesn't conflict with Philippians 2:12?
25f826 No.621573
>>621410
What your saying is wrong because it's a contradiction of the bible, if you want it to mean works based salvation then that it would destroy a ton of verses saying it isn't, I think it's Paul just telling people to do good and that God will punish christans on this Earth if they throw away his commandments.
fa8b61 No.621605
>>621521
>we can do *nothing* salvific on our own
But what about if we co-operate with grace? Then are we able to do something salvific?
>meaning that we can respond to the graces which God gives us
Well, which is it, are we so fallen that we are dead to God, or is there enough goodness in us for us to choose God? If we cannot follow God without grace, then what is God reaching out to? This is a major inconsistency, since if without grace God's offer would fall on deaf ears, then with grace God's offer would still fall on deaf ears, unless that grace has the power to raise them from spiritual death without their assent.
>must completely trust in Him and work with Him in order to attain it
That is a contradiction. If you must work with Him to attain or keep it, then you trust some aspect of yourself to contribute. This exposes that Roman Catholicism truly is "works salvation", because though it doesn't involve making ourselves righteous, it does require our action to be righteous. There are, according to the bible, two ways to be saved, either through Christ, or through our works. These ways are so completely different, that they cannot merge, if one treats with God through Christ, they do not do so through themselves. This is why Roman Catholicism is a false religion that damns men, its gospel is false because it tells men that some part of themselves is necessary, thereby causing them to treat with God by their own righteousness, which, being wanting, causes them to be condemned. It requires absolute perfection to stand right with God, and that is only found in Christ alone.
5e9622 No.621664
>>621571
What? Where's the contradiction? Once again you're claiming things and not explaining your reasoning.
5e9622 No.621668
>>621573
>What your saying is wrong because it's a contradiction of the bible, if you want it to mean works based salvation then that it would destroy a ton of verses saying it isn't,
But we're not even discussing the topic of faith+works/faith alone, we're talking about whether it's true that salvation is obtained before our death and final judgement. Two completely different things.
25f826 No.621693
>>621668
Oh, alright It's pretty clear you can be saved from hell before death, noticing you have to be alive to believe.
>John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
>Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
>Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
>Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Not to be rude but it looks like if you trust in Jesus as your savior then you are saved, otherwise we would have people die and arrive at the judgement seat and then believe after they saw it was all true.
25f826 No.621695
>>621668
Also that's a nice knife and cat.
5e9622 No.621708
>>621693
But being justified and being saved are two different things. In Romans 5:9 it says "we have now been justified by his blood" meaning we can be in God's grace during out life but "much more shall we be saved" seems to say that salvation is still to come. You seem to be conflating justification and salvation, which then makes it nonsensical to say that one is justified but not yet saved as that verse implies.
25f826 No.621722
>>621708
so being justified in the sight of God doesn't really mean anything? even if that was true we still have verses that clearly state you will have salvation if you put your faith and believe in Jesus, like these.
>John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
>Romans 10:9 Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
>Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
>John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
I think its hard to miss.
dd654a No.621742
>>619551
You are saved by faith but its a dead faith if it doesn't manifest itself by works.
5e9622 No.621748
>>621722
>so being justified in the sight of God doesn't really mean anything?
Well it seems to mean you will be saved after you die. Those who aren't justified won't be saved. Pretty simple.
>>621722
>even if that was true we still have verses that clearly state you will have salvation if you put your faith and believe in Jesus, like these.
Again, the point of contention here is not how we are saved but when we are saved.
25f826 No.621753
>>621748
>Again, the point of contention here is not how we are saved but when we are saved.
when you believe, I guess the question was so simple I miss understood it.
5e9622 No.621757
>>621753
So you say we are saved the moment we believe, yet you've given me verses that seem to imply otherwise:
>Romans 10:9 Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Future tense.
>Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Future tense again.
Yet another verse:
>Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
The only one that supports your point is Ephesians 2:8 which says "you have been saved" IN SOME translations, but in other english translations it reads "you are saved" which has a totally different meaning. The King James renders it as "are ye saved", which is not referring to a past event.
5e9622 No.621761
>>621757
Yet another verse:
>1 Corinthians 3:12–15 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
25f826 No.621764
>>621757
>you will be saved.
>shall we be saved by
Meaning when we die, we won't go to Hell.
thus saved from God's wrath.
5e9622 No.621765
>>621764
Then reconcile this with philippians 2:12. It makes sense to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if we are not saved during our life, but not if we obtain it the second we believe.
25f826 No.621769
>>621765
>What your saying is wrong because it's a contradiction of the bible, if you want it to mean works based salvation then that it would destroy a ton of verses saying it isn't, I think it's Paul just telling people to do good and that God will punish christans on this Earth if they throw away his commandments.
Easy I can quote myself, Remember this only happens if you take out a lot of versus saying differently or if justification means nothing.
fa8b61 No.621786
>>621765
Unless the fear is of God as a child fears their father, rather than the fires of hell.
25f826 No.621794
>>621757 see >>621786 This, It doesn't make sense that he would fear monger with Hell like that, plus hes also talking to other Christians too, this would be super important and I think if it were true then Jesus himself would of preached it.
5e9622 No.621933
>>621769
So you can't reconcile it. Otherwise you would plainly explain the meaning of the verse.
>>621794
>It doesn't make sense that he would fear monger with Hell like that
Yet Jesus told us to fear Hell
<Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
<Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear the One who, after you have been killed, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear Him!
>I think if it were true then Jesus himself would of preached it.
Well he did preach it, as shown above.
ef51a5 No.621941
>Bible: Getting to heaven isn't easy, so don't cut corners
>Church: Getting to heaven isn't easy, so don't cut corners
>Prot: Just trust in Jesus Christ to save you darn Catholics, can't you read the bible
25f826 No.622173
>>621933
>Yes, I tell you, fear Him!
> fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm……….And yes I can't be for sure what that verse means but according to a ton of other verses its not a works salvation so this verse is trying to tell us something else.
>but I have these 2 verses saying it is!
what about the 48 saying its not?
fa8b61 No.622175
>>621933
>Yet Jesus told us to fear Hell
The object of those verses is God, not hell. Jesus' point is that you should not fear men because of what they could do and therefore apostatize, you should fear God for what He could do and therefore do not apostatize.
25f826 No.622335
>>620773
1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Lol
8b2e32 No.622337
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>622335
Vid related tries to explain what Paul meant by this. If you've got some time, I'd suggest watching it. By you I mean whoever is watching this.
8b2e32 No.622338
>>622337
Reading, not watching. My bad.
c16400 No.622346
>>621941
>>Bible: Getting to heaven isn't easy, so don't cut corners
Umm no it doesn't sweety
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
8b2e32 No.622352
>>622346
And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth.” And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
8b2e32 No.622354
>>622346
Now great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and said to them, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.
8b2e32 No.622355
>>622346
Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
8b2e32 No.622356
>>622346
Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
8b2e32 No.622358
>>622346
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
c16400 No.622359
>>622355
He'a talking about being humble. Can you literally not read the verse you posted?
You are saved hust by faith but to put all your trust in Jesus to save you and not your works you can't be prideful.
8b2e32 No.622360
>>622346
If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, why don't you believe what he said?
c16400 No.622361
>>622359
>>622356
Also b4 you post Mattew 7
Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
>in b4 Father's will is do works
John 6
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
>in b4 James 2
https://youtu.be/dPqSelVJvoA
c16400 No.622362
>>622358
That's saying there are few that be saved. I'm pretty sure one of the apostles literally just asked Jesus if there are few that are saved
c16400 No.622363
>>622362
Also that's not KJV. KJV doesn't say it's hard
c16400 No.622364
>>622360
I do though
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
8b2e32 No.622367
>>622359
Yes he's talking about being humble. That's why you need to be humble. It ain't complicated.
And no I don't think that my works alone will get me salvation. That doesn't mean that I don't try to live my life for God alone.
>>622362
>few are saved
31.2% of people that claim to believe in Jesus doesn't seem like few to me. Also, if you just look at the context (anyone have a good picture that says 'context' in big fancy letters?), it seems unlikely that what you said was true, because that statement fits in perfectly with the rest of what Jesus was saying.
>>622363
Oh no, you're one of those people. A time traveler that finds early modern English easier to read.
>>622364
Do you? I'd suggest you get to work following what Jesus said then.
c16400 No.622370
>>622367
Yeah, I agree you do need to be humble to get saved, because to trust 100% in Jesus neans you need to be hunble
Most people that claim to be Christian aren't saved
Yeah I do. Because he said "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
8b2e32 No.622378
c16400 No.622381
>>622378
Being saved and being a disciple isn't the same thing
Yes, if you follow all the commandments you'll be saved but no one does that.
8b2e32 No.622385
>>622381
>no one does that
More importantly, why don't you do that?
>>622382
Isn't that the guy who says that the bible is God?
c16400 No.622387
>>622385
Because it's impossible
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Yes
06e8b5 No.622394
>>622346
>Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
>>622364
>Mother comes home and tells me to turn off the light when I leave the house
>Mother leaves, remembers me to clean my clothes before I go to sleep
>Next day she asks why I didn't clean my clothes
>B-but you said only had to turn off the lights once, so I can ignore the other thing you said about cleaning my clothes
>
c16400 No.622399
>>622394
That's him not letting jews get saved
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Is your mom going to then throw in a bonfire? No, she'll give you spanking not disown you
8b2e32 No.622401
>>622387
That's not an excuse. Get out your bible. Read the four gospels, in order. Get out an actual pen and some actual paper. As you read (no skipping parts), write down everything down that is a command from Jesus. Ignore any miracles (unless they are used by Jesus to explain teachings) because you already believe that they happened, and they will only distract you. You can come back to them later. Write down literally every command and teaching, no matter how ludicrous. And try to forget literally everything you know when you do it, you don't want to be biased. Again, it doesn't matter if it makes sense. Once you have done that, find any contradicting commands, and find a way to make them both work. One piece of scripture doesn't just cancel out another piece, the entire book is inspired by God (but may be intentionally confusing at parts). Once you have done that, repeat it for the rest of the new testament. It will probably be mostly the same as the teachings from the Gospels; they are based off of them after all. Once you have those pages of notes, proofread them one last time, and commit to following them, even the ludicrous sounding ones. Because you love God. It may even be a good thing that you think that it isn't needed to get you into heaven, because then it truly is a labour of love rather than you trying to get into heaven.
If you insist on using the KJV, I'd suggest reading a modern translation side-by-side so that you don't get caught into the trap of thinking that a word from 1611 means the same thing as it does today. That way you don't accidentally yearn for people in the literal bowels of Christ.
c16400 No.622402
>>622401
I dodn't say you shouldn't try to follow the commandments
8b2e32 No.622406
06e8b5 No.622415
>>622399
>Is your mom going to then throw in a bonfire? No, she'll give you spanking not disown you
I
Well
Are you serious right now? You twist scripture to be more moderate because you're lazy and when someone points this out you say "God is going to be nice to me when I get to heaven so there's no reason to worry, hush"?
Wait no, in retrospect I should have expected this.
c16400 No.622426
>>622415
What? Your the one that compared it to a modern example. And it is scriptually, the Bible teaches OSAS but God will still chsren you on earth
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
2600ce No.622563
>>621316
>One must go beyond what the verse actually says.
LMAO. You did not bother reading my post did you? You debate like a retard. Seriously. This is not going beyond, this is just simply putting out what the verse says.
Well yes…it disproves your heresy. Tough luck kid but that does not mean it is 'going beyond'
Refer back to this:
Logic gate AND:
The output is "true" when BOTH inputs are "true." Otherwise, the output is "false."
Example: If you come to me on monday and show me the homework, I will give you money. If you fulfill BOTH you get the money. If you do the homework, show it on tuesday you do not get them. If you come without homework, you do not get them.
Another example: "He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved"
Logic gate OR
The output is "true" if either or both of the inputs are "true." If both inputs are "false," then the output is "false."
Example: If you come to me on monday or show me the homework, I will give you money. If you fulfill ONE OR BOTH you get the money. If you do the homework, show it on tuesday you will get them. If you come without homework, you will get them.
Another example: "He that believeth or is baptized, shall be saved"
You should really address this.not just spout the same thesis all over again.
>Spouts a nonsense
Gets btfo'd
>Ignores it, pushes the same thing all over again.
Your presumption is wrong as are your heresies, Prot.
2600ce No.622575
>>621426
>>621435
>The fact that at some point a church has been led astray proves it's theology is not legit.
I mean yeah you prots may push this I don't mind it. But you should talk about the absolute state of protestantism - gay priests, women clergy, supporting abortion.
By living up to the same standard we may claim Reformation was a disaster..can't we?
I love how prots get the debate to 'that pope!' Indulgences' This and that!!
While there are women clergy, openly gay priests, etc. But yeah…that is just that toxic catholicism right.
25f826 No.622589
>>622563
>1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
lel
6a144c No.622614
>>622575
Because there are Catholics today who will defend pure evil just because it comes out of your organization.
A protestant can recognize a female teacher as a false prophet, and recognize that that's a red-hot indicator of the rot that dwells in that congregation. A protestant can avoid that church, and doesn't need to engage in mental gymnastics to prop a corrupt church up.
>but look at all these gay women abortionists!
no true Christian. A Christian by definition follows Christ. They're larpers.
c16400 No.622616
>>622614
Yeah, I don't see why catholics won't just call some preists a Judas instead of defending them
c16400 No.622617
>>622563
>Another example: "He that believeth or is baptized, shall be saved"
That's because if you believe and do anything then you're saved.
c16400 No.622618
>>622617
Which also lines up with John 3:36 ulike yours
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
a4c570 No.622792
>>622614
>no true Christian. A Christian by definition follows Christ. They're larpers.
The same can be said about caths who are led astray.
There are also prots who defend faggotry just because your church has gay priests. Again….you portray Protestant as enlightened individual and Catholic that has to agree with everything pope or some other bishop says.
>Because there are Catholics today who will defend pure evil just because it comes out of your organization.
There are protestants who defend abortion and women clergy I am sure. You can't have it both ways. Reformation led to heretical churches. There are like hundreds of them. Reformation is responsible for them. Even if you do not go to church with gays and abortions it does not change the fact that the reformation caused this primarily. Not saying catholic church is not being subverted right now. It is.
I just demand that you debate in honest manner.
>>622616
>I don't see why catholics won't just call some preists a Judas instead of defending them.
Yeah there are no good catholics. kek. Are you for real?
a4c570 No.622801
>>622617
>Another example: "He that believeth or is baptized, shall be saved"
That's because if you believe and do anything then you're saved.
Seriously I don't know if you've been paying attention: in the scripture 'AND' is used not 'OR'
This sentence was used to demonstrate the difference between the two. Your thesis presupposes 'OR'. Which is not found anywhere because 'AND' is used.
Look it up in the Bible to know what we're actually talking about before you know…chiming in.
>>622589
All right. I'll include some visual aids. Pic related.
See this is not how it works. Getting destroyed on one quote, then jump on another to deflect attention. Stay on the original quote. Why don't you prove me wrong…why not show that I read something that is not there? Really makes you think.
Your quoting proves nothing if you read the whole text:
A Church Divided Over Leaders
10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Try baiting harder.
1b583e No.623009
>>622801
Yeah i know it says "and" that's just the one you posted
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And again that would contradict john 3:36
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Also it doesnt say that if your not baptized your damned
1b583e No.623011
>>623009
Also with Mark 16:16 it says all you need to do is believe and get baptized, which means you don't need to do communion, do other good works, follow the commandments etc.
1b583e No.623015
>>622801
He litteraly said that he was sent to preach the gospel, not to baptize so then baptism isnt part if the gospel. Also so is Paul thanking God that he only got a few people saved?
fa8b61 No.623023
>>622792
>Reformation is responsible for them
No more than the Counter-Reformation is. What caused them is the state of modern society which is the result of an indecisive conclusion to the Thirty Years War forcing religious toleration on Europe. Had the Protestants won so completely that Roman Catholicism was forever eradicated, none of this would have happened.
2600ce No.623122
>>623023
>Had the Protestants won so completely that Roman Catholicism was forever eradicated, none of this would have happened.
kek. yes! and then even Orthodoxy would be eradicated. We would have gay priests, women clergy and we would live happily ever after.
2600ce No.623124
>>623011
>you don't need to do communion, do other good works, follow the commandments etc.
That sums up protestantism pretty well. I only wonder if it has anything to do with the moral decay or something…telling people they do not need to follow commandments to be saved.
Could it be? Surely not!!!
30325d No.623141
>>623124
Well if the absolute state of Latin America is any indication, I would say the Protestants might be on to something.
6a144c No.623143
>>622792
>Not saying catholic church is not being subverted right now. It is.
I'm not implying that the majority of Protestant churches aren't steaming garbage, they are. They've lost their first love because they fail to do the first works. What I'm complaining about is the Catholic who props up Rome like it's weekend at bernies.
What would the RCC have to do to convince you that she's not the one true church? How deep does the rot have to permeate before you come out of her?
25f826 No.623176
>>623124
>He can't defend himself
>1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Guess what, God can save you on the spot without ritual.
1b583e No.623184
>>623124
Or you aren't saved by the commandments but still get rewarded for doing them. Also catholics are a lot more degenerate than prots(at least in US)
d0be13 No.623439
>>623176
He can. But claiming this will surely happen just because you want it to happen is pretty pompous is it not?
Saying you do not need to follow commandments at all. I bet God likes this attitude a lot.
b5e6b7 No.623656
>>622575
I was describing the historical context of a now defunct debate and was saying nothing about theological legitimacy, which I, being mortal, am not qualified to weigh in on.
4127ff No.623796
>>620808
Catholicsfollowingtheirhippypope.jpeg
4127ff No.623799
In terms of the whole faith and works argument, I think I may have realized the proper meaning (yes from the Bible, not my own BS thoughts).
Aight, so here's the lowdown:
Any person who has true faith in God, faith enough to follow Him, will naturally perform good works in His quest to follow God and be more Godly. Man will fail in most of his endeavors, but in his attempts to be more like God he shall naturally leave the world a better place than when he entered it.
How does that sound? Is that sound logic for both parties involved? Makes sense to me, considering I'm a nondenominational Christian (though I attend a baptist church lol, dunking baptisms are fun).
4127ff No.623800
>>623799
*not just my own BS thoughts
4127ff No.623801
>>623799
Meanwhile, saying you believe in God but being an absolute state of a human being, and somehow never once doing anything good for anyone else, never treating anyone as you'd want to be treated, etc.
Or doing works just for the sake of being saved, rather than genuine appreciation and desire to be like God. It really gets into questions of devoutness, which I am a complete sinner in. I WISH I was as devout as some folks are, their lives tend to be so much happier (some genuinely, some not so, but then those are stereotypically a mere facade of devoutness).
Basically I have not a pebble to stand on in terms of arguing devoutness, because in this modern world, I, and I take full responsibility for this, allow myself to be influenced by the evils of this world, and to a degree that has lead me to a point where I'm not sure if my supply line with God, His grace, is truly intact. That's a phrase from my pastor lol, supply line of grace, but uh, in my own words, I'm just generally disconnected. Maybe cause I tend to masturbate (SIIIIIN) after praying before bed… Yup, I'm a sickening sinner alright…
79c48a No.623810
>receive a free car
>wtf I have to put gas in it every once in a while?
6a144c No.623934
>>623810
Good analogy.
The empty car is still in your driveway, but unless you fill it, it takes you nowhere. That's James 2.
1b583e No.623942
>>623810
So do they take the car back if you don't put gas in it?
Doesn't seem like an eternal free gift then.
25f826 No.623947
>>623810
>It's a car you have to put gas in
>Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
>Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
>John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
And Jesus said YOUR CONSTANTLY IN DANGER OF LOSING YOIR SALVATION! START WORKING FAGGOT CAUSE I AIN'T GONNA DIE FOR YOU! Lmao
bffc9a No.624068
>>619551
Seeing papists butchering James 2 disgusts me.
5e9622 No.624086
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
5e9622 No.624091
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
5e9622 No.624096
Just then, a man came up to Jesus and inquired, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to obtain eternal life?” “Why do you ask Me about what is good? Jesus replied, “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
25f826 No.624215
>>624096
>Tfw I haven't kept all the commandents
Guess I'm going to hell bros, if there was only someone to die for my sins or something….
>Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
>Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
>John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
>Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
5e9622 No.624238
>>624215
>Jesus: if you love me, you will obey my commandments
<lol okay Jesus but here it says all I need is faith
>Jesus: if you want to enter life, obey my commandments
<but Paul says I all I need is faith
>Jesus: not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of Heaven
<but Jesus you died for my sins so I'm good and I don't need to stop offending you
Jesus: …
5e9622 No.624254
>>624215
>John 3:16
>doesn't mention John 3:20
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
2600ce No.624346
>>624238
Protestant 'theology' in summary.
f11ef7 No.624416
>>624238
*Shhhhh* It's ok im here you don't have to fight the world anymore my son :)
cc8fb1 No.624431
>>624238
Yeah, if you love Jesus then keep the commandments. Doesn't mean it saves you.
>Matthew 7:21
Please tell me you're joking and not actually this retarded. Literally read the next 2 verses ahich is literally Jesus telling oeople to fug off because they thought they needed works
Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
>in thy name done many wonderful works?
>depart from me
>in b4 Father's will is do works
John 6
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
>in b4 James 2
https://youtu.be/dPqSelVJvoA
cc8fb1 No.624434
>>624254
So? That's not people not getting saved because they do bad stuff, it's people not wanting God to be real because then they have to believe what they're doing is wrong. And Jesus literally said 3 times right before that, that anyone that believes is saved.
cc8fb1 No.624436
>>624091
You literally proved that believing you need to do anymore than faith gets you hell. Nice going bud
cc8fb1 No.624437
cc8fb1 No.624439
>>620226
BOI
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
505d94 No.624444
>>624434
Papists really need to read the bible
cc8fb1 No.624448
>>624254
>>624434
>>624444
It literally explains it literally in the previous verse that the papiss left out
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
5e9622 No.624461
>>624436
Is that supposed to be english?
cc8fb1 No.624479
c715e3 No.625389
>>624444
>>624448
Faith and works are not separate. What is sin besides an action? You did something against the lord.
Faith is an action as well. Abraham was told to sacrifice his son, Isaac, and only stopped after he was told to stop. He didn't chicken out, he was about to actually do it. That proved his faith.
What is faith without action? Do we not say that actions speak louder than words? How can one live a life of debauchery, or even murder someone, and just say "I was saved years ago so I'm good"
Yes, faith alone. But part of faith is actually not sinning.
933668 No.626201
>>625389
>But part of faith is actually not sinning.
Verse ?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3%3A9-20&version=KJV
> Abraham was told to sacrifice his son, Isaac, and only stopped after he was told to stop. He didn't chicken out, he was about to actually do it. That proved his faith.
To humans, read Romans 4 and James 2
5e9622 No.626339
>>626201
>Verse ?
<1 John 3:9
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
a23543 No.626441
>>625389
>Faith and works are not separate
Yes, it is.
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
>>626339
>Non KJV
ew
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Your soul is what's born of God and once you get saved your soul no longer sins but your flesh still does. And 1 john 1 says if you say you don't have sin then you're deceiving yourself
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
5e9622 No.626850
>>626441
>your soul no longer sins but your flesh still does.
I got to hand it to you baptists, those are some olympian mental gymnastics. I'm actually impressed. Truely.
5e9622 No.626855
>>626441
>And 1 john 1 says if you say you don't have sin then you're deceiving yourself
Yeah but he's talking to people who haven't been baptized yet, hence "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Then you have no sin in you, but you still have to admit you sinned in the past hence, for those who have been washed, "if we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us."
1e2d16 No.626861
>>626850
But that's a paraphrasing of Romans 7, starting at verse 14.
>14We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not desire, I admit that the Law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
>18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
1e2d16 No.626864
>>624431
That Jesus is clearly edited, what is the original comic?
e8c79d No.626980
It's very simple. Our heart is what matters, and good works comes with faith. What we do does not save us, but we are expected to do good because this is what God would have us do. By submitting ourselves to Him we begin to do good works not out of striving for personal salvation or for our name, but that we do His will.
a23543 No.627116
>>626864
It was some stupid liberal atheist one
a23543 No.627118
>>626855
>Yeah but he's talking to people who haven't been baptized yet
He doesn't talk about baptism at all there
>hence "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Then you have no sin in you,
That's repenting of your sins after you get saved
a23543 No.627121
>>626850
Literally read you Bible you retard
https://www.billkochman.com/VerseLists/verse165.html
Also what are you saying you never sin now? Was Peter then not saved because he sinned when denying Jesus?
94f96c No.630187
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
This guy explains. Sanctification, not justification.
e416a5 No.630669
1 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, according to our works, and according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
e416a5 No.630671
>>630669
jk
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
a23543 No.630944
How do Baptists explain this verse?
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through baptism; and that of yourselves: it is the reward of God:
9 Of works, many man should boast.
843b33 No.631017
>>619551
>Accept free gift
>Never mind that your accepting of said gift was predestined from before creation as part of the Elect
Begome Galvinist :DD
a3330b No.631054
>>631017
gg get pranked bro heehee
8d8e58 No.631056
>>631017
>Accept "free" gift
>have to keep doing good works until the end of your life to know whether you received the gift or not
Where do I sign?
b13ef7 No.631114
>>626850
Catholics do really need to read bible.
869742 No.631123
>>630944
>"8 For by grace are ye saved through baptism; and that of yourselves: it is the reward of God:"
>"9 Of works, many man should boast."
What screwy translation are you quoting from for Ephesians 2?
The standard KJV reads for Ephesians 2:
(verse 8) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
(verse 9) "Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Here is the explanation (let the Scripture speak for itself):
"For by grace are ye saved"
What is grace?
Is it God's favor towards us- that is- God so being FOR us?
What is saved?
Is it being delivered from the tyranny of the sin condition that resides within every human being?
"through faith"
What is faith?
Is faith the assurance the Jesus Christ can always be trusted at all times?
"and that not of yourselves:"
Did we create grace within ourselves?
Did we create salvation within ourselves?
Did we create faith within ourselves?
"it is the gift of God"
Can grace be earned?
Can salvation be earned?
Can faith be earned?
How can receive any of these from God unless He freely gives it to us?
"Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Can a man brag truthfully about himself regarding what he accomplishes?
Can a man brag truthfully about how "he achieved his own salvation" if that salvation was in fact a gift and not his own accomplishment?
What does Ephesians 2 verse 10 say?
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
What did the Apostle Paul mean when he wrote this to the church in Corinth?
"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." (1st Corinthians 15 verse 10)
Which has greater honor: the house, or the one who built the house?
a23543 No.631184
8d10d8 No.631194
>>626850
Has a single Catholic ever read scripture before spouting off about what the bible says and doesn't say, or do you usually just make up whatever "feels right" and claim everybody else is retarded?
54ba93 No.631218
>>631194
Catholic Priests tell them not to read the bible, to make sure they don't learn the truth, Not even kidding.
24c85c No.631290
>>631194
Yes, Catholics read the Bible.
>>631218
>Priests tell them not to read the bible
wrong
a23543 No.631291
>>631290
Most don't even know what a Bible even is >>621459
24c85c No.631292
>>631291
Considering that it was the Catholics who put together the Bible as you know it, you might want to rethink those fake statistics. All those ecumenical councils weren't exactly Baptist.
bc6e29 No.631294
>>631292
>All those ecumenical councils weren't exactly Baptist.
Papist revisionism strikes again!
30a99c No.631331
>heh my pastor said we don't have to do anything in this life, just believe "On Christ"!
>I'm saved by my thoughts!!! hooray! I don't even have to repent technically!
>dies
>goes to hell
kek, enjoy
a23543 No.631462
>>631331
>heh my preist said we have to do a bunch meme rituals, instead of just believe "On Christ"!
>I'm saved by my actions!!! hooray! I don't even have to fully trust in Christ alone!
>dies
>goes to hell
kek, enjoy
a23543 No.631463
>>631292
>forgetting they included meme books
We thank pastor Jim for seeing through your papist lies and giving us the true Bible
6e6ec7 No.635007
>God creates humans and gives them the opportunity to have eternal life
>"But God is le evil because he killed people in the Old Testament"
a23543 No.638901
This is a plan of salvation verses I put together
Romans 3:23
Romans 6:23
Revelation 20:14-15
Revelation 21:8
Romans 5:8
2 Corinthians 5:21
Luke 24:6-7
John 3:16
Acts 16:30-31
Ephesians 2:8-9
Romans 6:23
John 3:36
John 5:24
Hebrews 12:6
Romans 10:9-10
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death;
Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Luke 24:6-7
He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Acts 16:30-31
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.