/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>611413

The bible says to obey the government (of course, unless it conflicts with God), because it's trying to protect you from going to jail. Also Anarchism can only work in small communities, and even then you're abandoning your capitalistic retirement plan/opportunity of wealthy, or at least the money you could use to raise your children. There is also the problem with the encroaching the satanic world system. Christians are needed to preserve the ancient standard of the bible, and if they're absent from the world it can advance faster into the world government.

I feel like The Amish would be a good example of Christian Anarchism, but even they have to work and require capitalism, even if they live outside the world. Not to mention they have to endure a lack of modern advances like dentistry, what they call dentistry is really concerning.

Also a lot of values from anarchism don't translate well into Christianity, such as the Marxist/communist equality (Yes, you're suppose to love everyone, but the bible still has strict divisions by borders/nations, genders, religion), internal self-government, property as theft/free shelter (the bible tells you to provide for your family as well as to work for your food), the idea of taking someone else's freedom/respecting everyone's "freedom".

>>611413

CHRIST-AN GANG ASSEMBLE

>>611416

The best argument CHRIST-AN GANG unironically has would be the Acts of the Apostles and documented early Church history. No private property, wealth distributed equally, everyone works, no central authority but God. But outside Acts there's not much going for it

>>611395

He wanted them to be able to defend themselves, but when Jesus was arrested, He told them to stand down, because He knew it was time for His sacrifice.

>>611442

Two swords were not enough for anything, He asked them to buy them so that He would be numbered among sinners, and fulfill this.

>>611416

It says to be subject to, which in the Greek is more like submission, as it is rendered in other places, not some insane obedience. https://biblehub.com/greek/5293.htm

We are told to not resist evil, we are needed to do as God has told us, nothing more, nothing less. You can not repay evil for evil.

Capitalism and all is just an ideology and method of living driven by profit, Christians do not desire this, nor care, we live off the Father, working not only in the world but for Him. Did Jesus not say that we'd be provided for in His teachings? Have Faith.

The Bible having those things present (borders, nations, etc) having those things present doesn't mean anything, it shows what people did, and what the sinful Jews after their rejection of Him as their leader did. And the OT in general, those things, excepting the parts we well know to use, have nothing to do with us.

The Bible does say this, but does not say how, and is a misrepresentation of what anarchist typically call property. Neither do Christians care for worldly freedom, true freedom is in obedience to God.

Even with all these things, Christians do not build a government or fight it, as that would be evil. We go about our way in submission to it, paying taxes when they ask. We don't try to change it, but leave the world to the world, and live as a testimony to Christ.

We aren't a political ideology, we abandon those things for the Lord.

>>611395

He did this as I said earlier for prophetic reasons, as shown clearly in St. Luke 22. He was an "anarchist" in a different sense than we would say. He ignores the government, did no violence, and supported great equality and sharing among His followers. None of these things point to a political ideology, but the fallout of following the Lord and His commandments to love.

>>611416

Continuing from:

>>611458

Wanted to make one more point about Romans 13:1, the Bible as we all know had no verse/chapter distinctions like we put them. So the real context of that verse begins back in Romans 12, and reads very differently considering it like that:

"Bless those who persecute, bless and do not curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice; weep with those who weep. Think the same thing toward one another; do not think arrogantly, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own sight. Pay back no one evil for evil. Take thought for what is good in the sight of all people. If it is possible on your part, be at peace with all people. Do not take revenge yourselves, dear friends, but give place to God’s wrath, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this, you will heap up coals of fire upon his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except by God, and those that exist are put in place by God. So then, the one who resists authority resists the ordinance which is from God, and those who resist will receive condemnation on themselves. For rulers are not a cause of terror for a good deed, but for bad conduct. So do you want not to be afraid of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from it, for it is God’s servant to you for what is good. But if you do what is bad, be afraid, because it does not bear the sword to no purpose. For it is God’s servant, the one who avenges for punishment on the one who does what is bad. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are servants of God, busily engaged in this very thing. Pay to everyone what is owed: pay taxes to whom taxes are due; pay customs duties to whom customs duties are due; pay respect to whom respect is due; pay honor to whom honor is due."

So it is seen clearly He means:

1) Do good to those who do wrong to you, leaving the vengeance to God

2) Even the government,

3) Be submissive to it,

4) Only those who do not do good should be remotely concerned with it,

5) All powers are made there because of God,

6) Pay your taxes.

This is not some kind of pro-government thing, nor is it anti-government. Someone under the grace of God doing good doesn't need to be concerned with the government, it's evil, it's persecution (then and in the future), or anything it does. We humbly submit to it, and don't resist it.

It is not that "government is ordained by God", but that because it is a force in the world, and all the things in the world are God's, that to resist it is to resist the things of God, and in Him you don't need to worry about it.

>>611458

>Bruh, Nations and the concept of personal property which have been omnipresent throughout human history are just ideology

>My impossible materialist fantasy which has never been successfully implemented isn't ideology tho

Why do you go through the effort of such absurd Talmudic parsing of scripture when it makes abundantly clear that the Church has authority, and that the Church in the past explicitly endorsed divine right of rule, the duty of citizens to the nation, just war, self defense, etc?

Not to mention the idiocy of calling the universal human self organisation into governments (of whatever scale doesn't matter, tribal chiefs vs. emperors are fundamentally similar in this argument) somehow an artificial ideology, whereas the impossible marxist fantasy of communal anarchism with no central authority some kind of "state of nature". Sorry, but your "I don't have an ideology lol" is just marxist ideology. Besides that, just think for two seconds about this nonsense; if there is no central authority, what is there to stop capable people from amassing greater resources then others, thus creating inequality and destroying the fundamental underpinnings of such a society?

also:

>Two swords were not enough for anything, He asked them to buy them so that He would be numbered among sinners, and fulfill this

>Christ, attorney at law

>Welp, better perform this meaningless gesture or else I haven't fulfilled the terms of the prophecy!

If the act was merely to conform to prophecy then it was an empty act, and Christ isn't empty.

>>611464

>Christian pacifism

>intothetrashitgoes.jpg

Self defense isn't vengeance, and you're just totally mangling the meaning of the passage. How can you reconcile what you're saying with the very last line you quoted:

>For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are servants of God, busily engaged in this very thing. Pay to everyone what is owed: pay taxes to whom taxes are due; pay customs duties to whom customs duties are due; pay respect to whom respect is due; pay honor to whom honor is due

Well if government is just something without any authority which we must passively bear because they are powerful, how are they servants of God? If they have no authority then to them nothing is due, hence we would not have to pay

>>611464

>It is not that "government is ordained by God"

>Paul literally calls the authorities an ordinance

Nani?