/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

That's a good question i was actually wondering this myself.

matthew 7:16-23

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

"heh, i dont have to follow the law, i got a free hall-pass to sin as much as i want, life is EZ mode =P"

>>608941

I can kinda understand faith alone if faith needs to be maintained and works come out of faith but you don't do works in with a quantitative mindset because you know you can never be good enough in the eyes of the Lord and you are saved by a pure gift which you won't ever deserve.

I don't know if that's Lutheran/Baptist doctrine. It might even approach the Orthodox conception of works. Maybe even the Catholic.

Help me out. I'm not arguing for faith vs works, I'm trying to not strawman the faith alone stance.

>>608941

What does this have to do with good works? You cut out the part that shows what he’s talking about!

>15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

>16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

He’s talking about the fruits of prophets. Their prophecy, their followers. He’s not talking about men and their works. If you believe in your faith so much, why do you need to remove context and slice passages in half to come to your conclusions? Why doesn’t the full passage support you?

>>608941

> "heh, i dont have to follow the law, i got a free hall-pass to sin as much as i want, life is EZ mode =P"

You’re certainly right that Matthew 7:16-23 disproves antinomianism and free grace nonsense. I hope you weren’t trying to make a point against Sola Fide as a whole, because most forms of Protestantism believe that a person who is saved is also changed for the better, and so becomes a good tree that bears forth good fruit.

>>608909

Push aside the apostolic dogma of Salvation of alone.

>Marxist

>Hating on Liberal

Unless the pic is stating that they hate themselves, this is a paradox.

>>608947

How does including the part about prophets change anything? Are prophets judged by a different standard for salvation than anyone else? I highly doubt it. The point here is that prophets are like anyone else, and if they aren’t saved they won’t bring forth good fruit.

>>608947

coping with denial isnt going to help you with anything. deluding yourself to the point of believing all sorts of fantasies isnt going to change whats written in the bible or what Jesus said. Just because it makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean its not the truth.

>>608946

>I'm not arguing for faith vs works

i am. im saying if u do bad stuff Jesus is going to "spit you out". its not too complicated. Jesus doesnt make this sayings convoluted and difficult to understand, its just that some people cant handle the truth so they delude themselves with all sorts of "free grace for everyone eks dee =PPP" pipe dreams

revelation 3:15-19

15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!

16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent

>>608909

God maintains true faith, nobody will stop trusting in Jesus after having done so.

>>608951

Nah, old-school Marxists hate liberals. It's rare now and doesn't really exist out of some /leftypol/ memes and some overlooked Marxist writers.

>>608951

You need to be able to differentiate ideologies. (American) Liberalism does not support the socialisation of all private property or workers controlling the means of production. If someone does support those things, you can hardly call them a liberal.

>>608955

Basically, if you really believed then you'd never become an apostate or a heretic? And only those who do, well its because they never truly believed to begin with?

>>608957

It's more that liberalism is individualistic (against Marxism) and often plays into the hands of capitalism by allowing individual desires to guide people, and its easy to sell stuff to them if all they believe in is individual desire as the supreme authority.

>>608958

Well, really it comes down to if you believe salvation is a work of man or an act of God. If God calls a peculiar people out for Himself, He's more than able to keep them. So, yes, those who apostatize never truly were God's, because God begins every work with the full intent of finishing it, so if it isn't finished in someone, it wasn't begun either.

>>608961

Sounds almost Calvinist.

>>608963

It's entirely Calvinist.

>>608951

Burgers gonna burger