/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

An indulgence was basically a "donation" one made to the catholic church. After receiving the "donation" the preist eould then pray for the dead loved one so that they would go to purgatory and maybe eventually heaven. To summarize it is a when a person would pay the preist in oder to keep a dead loved ones soul out of hell. But in order to initiate the practice the church had to create purgatory.

>>608652

Here's a better place to start rather than the other poster's slander:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence

https://www.catholic.com/tract/myths-about-indulgences

http://www.catholic.org/prayers/indulgc.php

Sorry, posting links is a little lazy but I have to go to bed. Hope this helps you.

>>608663

Deo Gratias for these!

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm

>>608663

>catholic.com

>catholic.org

Sound like objective sources, thanks.

>>608666

Mark checked.

>>608652

>4th century

>Monasticism becomes a nerd sport

>Can't just sit around eating honey combs and baptizing biches all day.

>Open "will pray for for lusers"

>Oh fud yeah, feels good mon.

>Scoutmaster gebs monks "honorary intercessor" badges

Skip 800 years

>The treasury of merit; purgatory and the role of the pope become more and more *ahem* defined

>Now imma da pope, the holiness man on da floor

>Sheeple needes prayers for their sins and muh political allies needes muhknees

Real stumded

>wrotes I.O.U.s for guilt-driven peasants

>"Geb muhknees plz"

Then the avignon papacy happening

>>608695

What the fuck

>>608693

>How dare Catholics teach one of their doctrines!

>Us protestants know what Catholics believe/teach better than they do!

>Now let me teach you how Catholic's worship satan

>even though we're forgiven, we still have to make ammends for our sins to God

>you can do this by praying or serving a charity or a number of those things

>you could also give to a local charity or donate to something being built

>luther jumps in and has a sperg when money is involved

>>608652

From Council of Trent.

>1. What is Indulgence i.e. is it absolution of sin or of punishment?

>2. If punishment, is this punishment eternal or temporal?

[1-2] On the first and second doubt Council responded that indulgences are liberation from temporal punishment, which remains after the forgiveness of guilt and eternal punishment, Mt 18, 18: whatsoever you shall loose etc.

>3. If temporal is it according to canon (law) or to Divine Justice?

[3] On the third they answered, that indulgence sometimes absolve temporal punishment that are in canons sometimes due the Divine Justice in according to words: Whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

So it absolves punishment due the canons, when Pope say from added penance;and due the Divine Justice when those words are not added; sometimes it's absolves full punishment sometimes part of it.

And in regard of that, that it absolves punishment due the Divine Justice they exhibit it from, that it was said to Peter: whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven; So Peter can loose what is to be loosed in Heaven.

Someone said that the punishment due the canons is the punishment due the Divine Justice, so that after punishment due the canons is absolved punishment due the Divine Justice is absolved; Otherwise Word of Christ would not be true: Whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

>4. From whose merits treasure of indulgences is made up?

>If from merits of saints also, then how, since those saints are debtors of God in all of their works that they accomplished or could accomplished?

[4] On fourth they answer that indulgences stream from the treasury of merits of Christ, Church and saints; even though tribulations of this age are not worthy of glory of heaven, by the Divine Kindness merits of saints help neighbours.

Paul satisfied for Corinthians and said: We were pressed out of measure above our strength, Fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church,

Likewise: I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation;

He wished to be an anathema, for brethren.

For saints accomplished many things, that are said to be from [the Will of] The Spirit, that merit for them and for us.

Not always all were debtors, like Blessed Virgin, that she couldn't merit for herself, for she had no sin, for which she could satisfied for and yet she suffered many punishments, or like John the Baptist

Someone said: All that Saints accomplished but [keeping] the commandments of decalogue are works that are not being debt, but are counted as being part of Treasure of The Church

Likewise when saints are working good in the Grace, from the Power of God's surety they merit for Eternal Life, and their merits are kept in Treasure of the Church

Job 6, 2 also said: O that my sins, were weighed etc.

Moreover since merits of saint rely on merits of Christ and are united with them, because of Christ merits of saints are helping us

Likewise as far as saints deeds are meriting for eternal life only for them that are meriting, so as far as they are on account of satisfaction they merit for others for many saints had no sins that they should satisfie for like Blessed Virgin etc and those deeds are counted as Treasury of The Church

>>608724

>5. If the repentant, confessed, and absolved one would not start to work according to the righteousness of Christ, how can the indulgence that comes from the vault of Christ's merit help him?

[5]On the fifth they replied that the indulgence is helping already absolved one because through him from Treasure of the merit of the Passion of Christ is given according to temporal punishment, which indulegence removes permamentlly.

The merits of Christ have already been given to the confessed and absolved as to the absolvence and eternal punishment.; By the indulgence, Christ's merit is again given to abolish the temporal punishment, which is often to be removed after the absolvence of guilt.

>6.Is there any reason for the validity of the indulgence?

>If it is required, what is the right reason?

[6] On the sixth they responded that indulgences should not be dispensed without cause. They were counted at the 44th session of the Council in Basel.

The cause should be adequate, such as going against the infidels, building churches, giving alms, etc. ; according to the act, a greater or lesser indulgence should be given.

It should not be given freely, but with a change of punishment, as the Council of Constance asserts.

>7. Can indulgence be given for the dead and how?

[7] On the seventh tehy responded that the indulgences help the dead in the way of intercession.

Someone said, that they help in the way of judgment and jurisdiction; for Pope have judicial rule over all that are in the way; and those in Purgatory are in the way; so they are under judicial rule of Pope.

Moreover they said, that if our prayers and sacrifices help the dead, why couldn't indulgences given by Pope, if they come from the same charity?

Besides: if the Keys to Kingdom of Heaven were given to Peter and souls that are in purgatory need that gates of this Kingdom be opened, then Peter who have the keys can open them.

Similarly, if the private intercession help the dead how much more Church intercession do.

Somone said, that it works as intercession, but not as intercession of another but because it's different from the alive, to whom it is given as absolution; sometimes it help as jurisdiction

And for what Mt 16,19 says: Whatsoever you shall loose on earth, so not under earth, he anserws that argumentation ab affirmativa ad negativam have no weight.

Someone else said, that it does not help all in purgatory but only to those who merited in this age to be helped.

>>608652

Here's how they were marketed:

Listen to the voices of your dear dead relatives and friends, beseeching you and saying, “Pity us, pity us. We are in dire torment from which you can redeem us for a pittance.” Do you not wish to? Open your ears. Hear the father saying to his son, the mother to her daughter, “We bore you, nourished you, brought you up, left you our fortunes, and you are so cruel and hard that now you are not willing for so little to set us free. Will you let us lie here in flames? Will you delay our promised glory?” Remember that you are able to release them, for as soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs. Will you not for a quarter of a florin receive these letters of indulgence through which you are able to lead a divine and immortal soul into the fatherland of paradise?

>>608663

>>608693

>>608701

IIRC, CatholicAnswers claims indulgences were never sold. That is simply a lie about history. I don't care if you call it a donation, they were giving money in exchange for an indulgence, it was a sale.

>>608751

>Equaling selling stuff with almsgiving

>>608652

Indulgences still exist and basically are an annulment of (a part of) the penance you have to do in purgatory for already forgiven sins.

You can get indulgences for things like a certain prayer on a certain day (specified indulgences by the Church) or just by being a christian (giving to the poor, doing good deeds, praying in general,…).

Sadly in the middle ages the Church became so big and unregulated that priests and even bishops started selling these with some probably claiming they were a ticket into heaven.