/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>605515

You are meant to abide your station in life, whether you're free or not. True freedom has nothing to do with physical chains. OT quotes sound more like God attempting to ameliorate an inhuman tradition.

>>605518

why not outright condemn it?

>>605515

The OT has laws for regulating slavery at a time and place when it was universal everywhere. Slaves were to be set free every Jubilee year and debts were to be forgiven.

Slavery is absent in the Gospels. The Pauline Epistles contain passages discouraging worldly revolutions, but the Epistle to Philemon and other passages led many Christians towards a framework in which slavery is considered immoral. Historically it was Christian civilization that eliminated slavery both within itself and then worldwide.

Slavery is not inherently bad, but it is far from ideal, and it is good that it is done away with now in much of the wold. I believe it falls into the same category as polygamy, as being something that would better be avoided but has been allowed under certain conditions.

>>605515

We need to be careful about confusing what God says is virtuous with what man says is virtuous. anti-slavery, tolerance, and equality are all deemed virtuous by man, not God. The virtues of God we must always uphold and the virtues of man we must call into question when they go against God's plan.

negro gospel music thread?

here's one preformed by a jew

>>605533

>How many layers of progressive revisionist history are you on? Hahaha, you are like a little baby

If you want a first hand account of how many slaves were kept in the South, I'd suggest "A South-Side View of Slavery", written by a Yankee abolitionist preacher visiting an ill friend in the south. Besides starving oft-beaten slaves being ahistorical and anti-common sense in that they were meant to be fit for manual labor, it's irrelevant even if true in that mistreatment isn't synonymous with the institution itself.

Also, it's a very perverse reading of Exodus that sees the plagues upon Egypt as a condemnation of the institute of slavery, he sent a plague upon them as they were non-believers who oppressed the righteous, not because they were slave holders (or did you imagine that egyptians were the only ones to hold slaves on earth at that time? Or that there were concurrent plagues we didn't hear about?)

As far as Christ, your argument is just as dumb or facetious, since we know what he did and what he taught; did Christ emancipate the slaves? Did he spare even a word for the emancipation of slaves? Your argument is just modernist programming, it doesn't come from Christ. I sincerely doubt you'd mount such a passionate (and dishonest) argument against premarital sex or usury, which God explicitly taught us was evil.

That is not to say that slavery is beneficial or good, it's clear that the social organisation of a society which has ridden itself of slavery is generally superior to one which hasn't, and unjustly taking someone into bondage is a moral evil which I don't think I need to expand upon. That being said, slavery is certainly not the arch-evil that anti-racists have programmed you to believe. The institution is older than history, and to overturn it revolutionarily would have resulted in great bloodshed and chaos (this was certainly the case in the U.S., leaving aside the politics of the civil war, a great number of slaves starved, and the U.S. is still dealing with the social turmoil of it's chronically criminal black underclass, these may have been avoidable if emancipation were more gradual).

As well, sometimes taking one into slavery is nearly unavoidable; one could think of innumerable cases this would apply in primitive societies, but more relevantly criminals are made slaves to the state to this day, there really isn't any plausible alternative. There's also voluntary slavery; it's hard to argue (especially in earlier societies where it was much more difficult to press claims through the courts) that it was flatly evil to volunteer one's labor for a period of time in order to cover debts

>>605520

This.

>>605533

There’s no evidence Jews were ever Egyptian slaves

to the people who sees nothing wrong with it, id like you to be my slave. See how it feels like.

Not something to be encouraged. It doesn't really turn out well for anyone involved.

>being a slave sucks, obviously

>the ancestors of slave owners get to live in guilt and pay reparations

>it only benefits rich business owners. The working class just have their jobs taken away

>>605519

We look at ancient slavery through modern eyes. Let's say there is this tribe who routinely pillage your lands. One day you decide enough is enough, get some armed men, ride out and defeat them. Not everyone is going to fall in battle, so what do you do with the survivors? Killing them would be inhumane. You cannot just send them away, because next month they will be back and possibly in even greater numbers. You cannot just put them in a prison and feed them for free either. Remember, you have none of our modern infrastructures. Slavery is literally the only humane solution to this problem.

>>605649

or you could just leave them there you brainlet

Remember, the slavery outlined in Leviticus was nothing like Western slavery in recent centuries.

>>605591

>Denying the OT

>Trusting atheist archeologists

>Ignoring the history cited by Christ

>>605591

Uhm yes there are

one of these includes Canaanite styled houses founded in Egypt during preexodus area.

Slavery itself is not sinful, but the slavery which was practiced in the American south was an abomination because it deprived the slaves of their rights of liberty and property.

There are a big differences between biblical era slavery and our concept of it today. Slaves came primarily from two sources. People captured during times of war are the first source. Slavery due to debt was the second source.

Today in America we see slavery in a very different way. The way slavery happened in the United States was incredibly unique in the history of mankind.

I "renig".

Everything I own was manufactured in third world sweatshops and labor camps. The smartphone I'm typing this post on was assembled by Christians and Falun Gong members imprisoned in a concentration camp run by the Communist Party in mainland China.

Look at the labels on the clothing you're wearing right now.

It's very strange to me that Westerners talk so passionately about how evil slavery "was" and how good it is that it's "abolished" and how white people owe reparations to the descendants of slaves centuries ago, all while every consumer item they own was manufactured by slaves in the present day.

Unfortunately, slave labor has been the basis for all human civilization and every human society more advanced than simple chiefdoms since the Upper Paleolithic and continues to be to this day even in jurisdictions that have made the practice de jure illegal but have just de facto exported their slavery to other countries.

Industrialized slavery like the Barbary Slave Trade, the Transatlantic Slave Trade, and the slavery instituted under modern totalitarian governments is less humane than ancient slavery. The slavery in the Roman Empire was sometimes as brutal.

Anyway, the Bible doesn't condemn slavery, because that would be condemning a universal institution. The Bible might as well condemn government. The Bible already condemns this world. If you want a world without slavery, you want a new world.

>>605686

What kind of slavery wouldn't deprive the slaves of liberty?

>>606400

We are all slaves in Christ.

>>605515

>Does the bible condemn it or condone it?

OT law gives regulations that permit it. The jews are and always have been weak, though. Christian law has been, since christ himself, far more stringent (consider christ's destruction of the jews' divorce laws).

NT law calls christian slaves to not be rabble rousers disobeying their masters. Even free christians, though, are called by romans 13 to obey secular authority (which does not compel sin, that is). The point is that christians should be content in their station.

However, the one thing faggots who bring up the slavery issue never mention (from the bible anyway) is philemon, which is largely a writing by paul to the slave owner philemon, urging him to forgive and free his slave onesimus. Christians owning slaves is not condoned.

Of course slave-faggots never bring up philemon…it's the grand undoing of their faggotry.

>Not sure if can follow a religion that condones slavery

Then let you be anathema. The religion does not, and anti-slavery mentality is wholly christian in origin, but if you would hold it as your belief that we condone slavery, then indeed, let you be anathema. There is nothing for you.

Real talk: you're on a chan where next door, the majority are pseudo-nietzscheans who would bat not an eye at slavery. What point do you think you're making?

>>605651

And then they join with their friends and raid you again, but this time even worse. Who's the brainlet here?

>>606505

with what? low numbers and low morale?

still you with your viking hat

>>606400

Servitude of God

Infact, this is the foremost guarantee of human freedom. Since we belong to God and He granted us, His children made in His image and likeness, to be free, no other being has right and power to take this freedom away, including us ourselves.