8b3a7d No.601643
>Guadalupe
>Fatima
>La Salette
>Our Lady of Good Success
>Akita
>Ven. Mary of Jesus of Agreda
>Bl. Anne Catherina Emmerich
>St. John Bosco
>Eucharistic miracles
>Shroud of Turin
>Literally more miracles, apparitions, visionaries, prophecies than I can think of
How do Orthos/Prots but I repeat myself ignore these?
de2f90 No.601660
>>601643
>How do Prots ignore these?
Protestant. I hold the Shroud and the Sudarium to be authentic, as well as a few of the extremely notable and documented instances of Eucharistic miracles. I can't really say I know much about the miraculous icons, or cases of stigmata.
I do believe that Catherine Emmerich's visions match far too closely with things that are beginning to happen in the Catholic Church.
b75793 No.601678
Same way I ignore Benny Hinn and Peter Popoff.
5b816b No.601681
Satan has the power to do miracles too, you know. In fact, the Bible teaches that the Antichrist will do miracles. This is how I explain the Eucharistic miracles – it's in Satan's interest to do as many miracles as God will allow him to do to convince people of false religion.
I think the Shroud of Turin is legitimate, though.
74516a No.601683
>>601681
Literally Matthew 12:22-28
5b816b No.601686
>>601683
Indeed, but does this mean we should accept all miracles? Would you accept these miracles? https://www.shughal.com/believer-15-astonishing-miracles-islam-pakistan/
What about the purported miracles of Shi'a cleric Imam Reza?
No?
Why not?
74516a No.601691
>>601686
How can the prince of lies tell the truth regarding the Lord? Do you accept the tests run on the subject matter?
5b816b No.601693
>>601691
>How can the prince of lies tell the truth regarding the Lord?
I don't believe Catholicism is the truth. If we're presupposing Catholicism and transubstantiation are true, then Satan has no motivation to give false miracles, you're right.
There's no way to know if a miracle comes from God or Satan, which is why miracles are not an argument.
Also, Satan often mixes truth with lies. The Qur'an contains some truth, for example.
ebcff9 No.601703
It's giving divinity status to something that isn't directly (or at least a path to) God.
It's really close to either goddess worship or female aspect of God worship.
f27bed No.601712
>believing in personal revelations
doing the exact same thing Protestants do by claiming you receive a special message
Gee I wonder why these aren’t accepted
The tragic part is that there’s a good chance the immaculate heart of Mary will become the fifth Marian dogma
Also Protestants and Catholics are two sides of the same coin
4f86c1 No.601718
>>601712
>Also Protestants and Catholics are two sides of the same coin
Underrated. Very underrated.
74516a No.601721
>>601693
>There's no way to know if a miracle comes from God or Satan
If you assume that there is no visible Church then that would be false still, see my earlier post
if you believe the bible holds any authority you also believe its source holds the same authority
5b816b No.601722
>>601721
We're debating miracles, not whether or not the Catholic Church wrote the Bible. Please try to stay on topic.
In a debate setting, where formal logic is required, there's no way to know whether a miracle came from Satan or God.
Obviously, I believe that all Catholic miracles, to the extent they happened, came from Satan. I believe this because any miracle which keeps people in a false religion which damns them to Hell, or which Catholics use to convert people to a false religion which will damn them to hell, is Satan's MO.
However, I can't prove this, because it's not a provable thing. You also cannot prove that your miracles come from God. Your vague "but Satan can't lie!" thing makes no sense.
If you want to have a debate you cannot get mad at your opponent for not presupposing you're right.
654170 No.601724
>literal wars happening
>apparitions are somehow relevant
nice delusions
74516a No.601725
>>601722
>Your vague "but Satan can't lie!" thing makes no sense.
Sorry anon, you'll have to get yourself out of this quagmire, I don't know how to help you
5b816b No.601726
>>601725
I obviously meant "but Satan can't tell the truth".
74516a No.601731
4f86c1 No.601737
>>601731
>made a typo
>can't be taken seriously
Seriously? Is this what constitutes proof in these days?
Luke 16:31 rings more true every time I read it.
9064ae No.601752
>>601643
Egypt gets a fair amount of Marian apparitions. Apparently even the president Nasser (Muslims do venerate Mary) was a witness to Zeitoun in 68. Coptics claim that the location of the church is where the Holy Family stayed.
42fc7a No.601774
>>601643
Marian apparitions are not an eastern or pre-schism thing, and eucharistic miracles are not unfamiliar to us
(False flagging, possible ban evasion) 3cee4c No.601780
>>601737
You misunderstand completely what a shocker
I'm saying that your self deception is too strong for me to handle, and that you'll have to handle your problem yourself because I don't know what to do to make it better.
be8a57 No.601787
>>601774
>Marian apparitions not an Eastern or pre-schism thing
Nice falseflag
134d39 No.601789
Pride is an awful sin, my man…and I think the mother of God and our Lord is send us a clear message with all these: we need to fix ourselves, our ways and the Church too (we are not doing well to say the least).
e94a92 No.601793
>>601774
>What is our Lady of Pillar
>What is visitation of Saint Nicholas
f79ed6 No.601810
>>601643
2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
0d9713 No.601873
I'd be on guard about calling such things demonic.
1 John 4:1-3
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already."
I'm not familiar with what most of the apparitions are said to have spoken about, but from what I know about Fatima, they do seem to "confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh," albeit implicitly.
94e3b1 No.601892
>>601643
> >Guadalupe
Don't know much about it. I know some OCA clergy consider this authentic at least. There's probably something there.
> >Fatima
Probably demonic. "Our Lady" got a whole bunch of shit wrong about Russia and also promoted sacred heart worship and a number of other things which are heretical. Theotokos would know better/wouldn't lie.
> >La Salette
> >Our Lady of Good Success
> >Akita
> >Ven. Mary of Jesus of Agreda
> >Bl. Anne Catherina Emmerich
> >St. John Bosco
Never heard of. Please enlighten.
> >Eucharistic miracles
We have eucharistic miracles too from time to time. Not something to be happy about, since the eucharist itself is already a miracle. Further eucharistic miracles are usually a sign of faithlessness amongst the people.
> >Shroud of Turin
Authentic. Where did y'all get it from? Surely it wasn't looted from Constantinople
Just giving you a hard time, bud. It's a good thing y'all got the shroud. Imagine if the muslims got it. Praise God
> >Literally more miracles, apparitions, visionaries, prophecies than I can think of
Most "miracles" are demonic. There's a reason why the ancient church rebuked every apparition even of Christ or Theotokos or known saints. Often, when rebuked, these apparitions vanish, meaning they are demonic. Don't get giddy just because something paranormal happened. Demons do this to deceive the faithful.
>>601774
> Marian apparitions are not an eastern or pre-schism thing
<What is The Feast of the Protection of the Theotokos
<Who taught St Anthony of Alexandria how to tie the komboskoini knot with seven crosses?
<etc etc etc
be8a57 No.601910
>>601793
Don't forget every Russian's favorite, Our Lady of Kazan.
fe8879 No.601954
if our Lady of Fatima is from God, then the EO are schismatics.
Please pray for the Pope to consecrate Russia to the immaculate heart of Mary in union with all the bishops so that it will be converted to the Catholic church.
8b3a7d No.602141
>>601712
>>believing in personal revelations
>doing the exact same thing Protestants do by claiming you receive a special message
>Gee I wonder why these aren’t accepted
While not required for salvation, private revelations are examined carefully before being judged "worthy of belief" by ecclesial authorities. It's not remotely like Marty L deciding that everyone was interpreting the Bible incorrectly for 1500 years.
>The tragic part is that there’s a good chance the immaculate heart of Mary will become the fifth Marian dogma
And the problem here is…?
>Also Protestants and Catholics are two sides of the same coin
I'm assuming you're an Ortho. What is this catchphrase even meant to say?
>>601892
>> >Fatima
>Probably demonic. "Our Lady" got a whole bunch of shit wrong about Russia and also promoted sacred heart worship and a number of other things which are heretical.
Veneration of Mary's Immaculate Heart is not worship. What did she allegedly get wrong about Russia?
>Never heard of. Please enlighten.
At risk of coming off as curt, Wikipedia is pretty much the best for these things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_La_Salette
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Good_Success
(See also about the visionary herself: http://waragainstbeing.com/partxiii/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Jesus_of_%C3%81greda
(TLDR: Bilocated to preach to native Americans)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Catherine_Emmerich
(TLDR: Visions of events not specifically recorded in the Gospels and recorded them; the house St. John brought Mary to was found thanks to her revelations)
https://www.catholiccompany.com/getfed/vision-john-don-bosco-two-columns-mary-eucharist/
(Famous prophetic dreams and visions)
f79ed6 No.602180
>>601904
>>601908
>>601909
Demon of Fatima BTFO
8b3a7d No.602188
>>602180
Don't be calling Madre a demon, anon.
8b3a7d No.602189
>>601909
>Christotokos
Nestorian please go.
251d01 No.602216
>>601892
>eucharistic miracles are usually a sign of faithlessness amongst the people.
Wow, I never thought that way. It makes sense. Thank you, fellow Christian.
4f86c1 No.602219
>>602141
>What is this catchphrase even meant to say?
Trail of Blood
f79ed6 No.602221
>>602180
>deleted
Really makes you think
4b5d15 No.602233
Our Lady of Guadalupe doesn't get talked about much as it should tbh
1b56c5 No.602330
>>602221
a anon gave answers as OP asked and they get deleted, really does make one think.
aee183 No.602363
>>602180
>>602221
So which christian board are you guys going to?
f79ed6 No.602365
>>602363
There was a post just above yours saying he's going to /christ/. Interestingly, it seems that post was (((deleted)))
1112af No.602372
>>602365
I deleted it, because /christ/ is full of gnostics.
2346c4 No.602379
>>602221
What was posted if anyone remembers?
5c3047 No.602399
>>601660
How can you be a prot and believe in Eucharistic miracles. Prots deny transubstantiation. How can you believe in transubstantiation yet refuse to partake in the Eucharist? It's time to become friend
5c3047 No.602407
3cee4c No.602424
>>602379
A whole lot of autism
9739b9 No.602453
he was banned for posting the text of this link
http://www.celticorthodoxchurch.com/fatima.html
whether you agree or not, this really is /pol/ mod tier stuff.
9739b9 No.602454
never seen a prot get this rare ban lmao. anyway
most holy theotokos, watch over the janitors of this website
4f86c1 No.602621
>>602454
>Chalcedonian definition
When exactly did they add this to the rules? Are we adding the council of Trent soon?
Just to speak for myself, I read his posts before they were deleted and I agreed with the part about the apparitions being demonic and not in line with Scripture or the gospel of Christ at all. They really aren't. I didn't agree with the part about Catholic church being legitimate though, although his point about Catholics teaching that God or God's soul was created being goes directly against Colossians 1:15. Feel free to ban me if that goes against the new rules.
ae9a45 No.602753
>>601643
>How do Orthos/Prots but I repeat myself ignore these?
By not researching anything and covering their ears while shouting "BLAHBLAHBLAHDEMONS"
3b05c5 No.603021
1203bd No.603035
>>603032
he's not wrong tho
753823 No.603038
>>602399
If true substantiation is what occurred in these miracles, transubstantiation must be very rare.
8b3a7d No.603064
>>603035
Still not finding an argument.
ae9a45 No.603098
>>603021
You're right, I'm so salty about heretics marching to their own doom. So incredibly salty.
bf2377 No.603538
>>602399
Lutherans could possibly interpret them to be a manifestation of Christ's Body being with the Elements.
e73498 No.603560
>>602399
Uhhh nope.
>Was ist das Sakrament des Altars?
Es ist der wahre Leib und Blut unsers Herrn Jesus Christus, unter dem Brot und Wein uns Christen zu essen und zu trinken von Christus selbst eingesetzt.
Shit translation by me
<What is the Sacrement of the Altar [AKA Eucharist or Holy Communion]?
<It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, amongst the Bread and Wine that Christ himself gives us Christian to eat and to drink.
>Vom Abendmahl des Herrn wird so gelehrt, dass der wahre Leib und das wahre Blut Christi wirklich unter der Gestalt des Brotes und Weines im Abendmahl gegenwärtig sind und dort ausgeteilt und empfangen werden. Deshalb wird auch die Gegenlehre verworfen.
Shit translation by me:
<On the Lord's supper is to be taught, that the true body and the true Blood of Christ is truly present in the form of the bread and the wine of the supper and are on display and received there. Therefor The Teaching that says otherwise (of the reformed Protestants) [Gegenlehre] is therefore rejected.
https://www.ekd.de/Kleine-Katechismus-Das-Fuenfte-Hauptstueck-13473.htm
http://www.lutherisch.de/index.php/glaube/vertiefung/das-augsburger-bekenntnis-teil-1/1420-11-artikel-10-vom-heiligen-abendmahl
1000 years on Duckduckgo.
f572a5 No.604397
>>601686
hahahahaha, come on, look at these "miracles"
>Toast that looks like allah
>avocado that has allah written inside
>Mosque didnt get flooded all the way (you can see how other buildings survived the flood just aswell in the backround)
all the other "miracles" listed are in similar fashion
1203bd No.604479
ba57ff No.604487
ty OP did not know about some of there
1b56c5 No.604499
>>601643
>for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. (2 Cor 11:14)
>But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema (Gal 1:8)
>false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. (Matt 24:24)
>The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders (2 Thes 2:9)
>…spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world… (Rev 16:14)
>muh miracles
547f14 No.604500
>>601643
Not ignore. Reject. The same reason we reject aliens and new age spirits. Even Satan transforms into an angel of light.
Don't make me drop the truth on Fatima. It's too late at night.
1b56c5 No.604510
>>601643
>Shroud of Turin
The shroud predates any lasting schism and the reformation so catholics cannot claim it only they're in possession of it.
015cf4 No.604517
>>602233
Do you live in a white area? I live in california and almost every catholic church and even some prot churches have OLG on these to attract mexicans
fce268 No.604581
>>604500
is there some protestant prophecies about those bad ebil gatholics and the Mother of God you'd like to share with us?
ecac96 No.604634
8b3a7d No.604895
>>604500
>Baptist
>claims to know the truth about anything
Put your cards on the table, friendo.
fe8879 No.604946
>>604499
so why do you listen to fr. Luther's gospels from the 16th century? Got any historic documentation other than your interpretation of our sacred texts that proves your gospel is the interpretation of the apostles that would make me think you know better than all the people the apostles thought and who worked many miracles to confirm the doctrine and which the Church they belong to keeps working miracles to confirm the gospels?
f79ed6 No.604975
>>604946
>so why do you listen to fr. Luther's gospels from the 16th century?
Lord Christ's gospel from the 1st centruy*
<And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
fce268 No.604997
>>604975
And how exactly can you use Our Lord's words here to attack Our Lady, His Mother?
f79ed6 No.605022
>>604997
Saved by Christ, not Mary.
03768e No.605037
>>604997
It's not an intentional attack on Mary, but a correction of only Jesus having divinity.
8b3a7d No.605039
>>604474
>implying literally anyone believes Medjugorje is legit
be8a57 No.605064
>>605039
Every Catholic I know (including a priest and a deacon) believes Medjugorje is legit. The deacon even makes frequent pilgrimages there.
ae9a45 No.605067
>>605064
>>605039
No doubt there's genuine miracles occurring there, but the apparitions themselves are highly suspect (to put it politely). Of course most people just hear about the healings and immediately flock there.
f422c5 No.612149
>All those Orthodoxes talking about how they were demonic attacks
This reflects badly now that people will slowly come to realize that there ARE Orthodox Marian apparitions. Pic related, Coptic Orthodox "Our Lady of Light".
>>601643
>How do Orthos/Prots but I repeat myself ignore these?
Typical Nettholic arrogance. If I sent this to your priest he'd give you a good theological smack.
eaef3b No.612158
>>601643
>How do Orthos/Prots but I repeat myself ignore these?
Quite easily actually and nothing of value is lost since they add nothing of value to the faith, but are just curious cases to ponder in between more important things.
25e248 No.612179
>>604517
I live in SoCal so I've grown up with Our Lady being the standard way Mary has been depicted. It's quite comforting except some of the Santería shit that, ironically, edgy white kids do
3ea6d3 No.612187
>>601643
>but I repeat myself
3f7688 No.612236
>>601643
Miracles by demons and Shroud is a Jesuit lie.
efbccb No.612239
>>612236
>"w-why don't we have m-miracles like the Orthodox and Roman Catholics have?"
>"i-it must be demons!"
The absolute state of Protestantism.