/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>596880

I have never debated an atheist who constructed an argument more complex than "You're stupid."

I'm from the Middle East. Does that make me a Muslim? How come atheists and liberals do not mention one of the most oppressed minorities of all time, Arab Christians? Ya haram. We are like the shish. We face the fire (Islam) and have our backs to the knife (Israel).

Atheists usually fail at metaphysics. Trying to argue with one is like trying to argue that air exists to someone who only believes what they can literally see and cannot comprehend that something that is unseeable can exist. No one seems to get that the scientific method itself and other more fundamental concepts like reasons are inherently unproveable.

>>596880

Eh, that's just a red herring. If you were born in an Islamic country and were Muslim, you'd also be wrong. What you might become in a certain situation does not change what is actually the current situation, much less what is actually the underlining truth of the universe.

Come to think of it, you could easily say the same thing to the atheist. Islamic countries aren't exactly accepting of atheism after all.

> be atheist

> raised by atheist parents

> be brought up in Sweden or Czech republic, where most people are atheists/agnostics

> atheism btfo

> Because we were born in a country that believes the Earth is a globe we also believe that the Earth is a globe it's what we are raised with, so if you were born in a flat Earth country you would believe the Earth is flat

> globe earth btfo

It's no logic at all. Just because someone is brought up to believe certain ideas, or one is surrounded by people who believe the same things, does not call into question whether those beliefs are true or not.

>>596895

God bless you brother.

>>596887

I think they at least like to think of themselves as intelligent "debaters". Whenever I hear an argument it's someone trying to sound profound while basically saying nothing

>>596901

I did also try arguing that Muslims become Christian despite being abandoned and threatened with violence.

I just think it was probably something not really thought out.

I find that many atheists haven't actually thought about their worldview, because it isn't important to most of them, they simply apathetically live without questioning their ignorance.

>>596909

Funny you mentioned that specific example with the globe earth. I tried using this, but was constantly interrupted while trying to make my point. Thank you for putting it in simpler terms, I'll use it in the future.

They won't let go of the whole "everyone is conditioned to believe in God, there is not true God because we all grow up with the concept of it"

This is relative realism, without an understanding of the spiritual world.

A conversation I had in highschool with an atheist friend

>There's no God!

<but don't you think there is some greater power governing everything?

>You can never know!

I wasn't very well educated on the matter to go on with this, but did I make him agnostic with one simple step?

>>597013

One weird trick

Atheists hate him!

>>596880

You cannot be born a Christian. Also, Mohamad kind of made it up as he went. There's even a Muslim doctrine about that, that sometimes you get a better verse. However, the Quran isn't in chronological order, but in order by book length (seriously) so the whole thing is very tough to sort out. It's kind of like Arab Mormonism.

My family is entirely atheist, and Christianity no longer is a aspect of daily life in the west.

>>596880

>East Asian

>Catholic, Protestant (Baptist), and even Orthodox churches are present in my immediate 10km radius around my place.

>Numbers of Christians constantly rising. Slowly and steadily.

>>596880

Ask him if he would still be an Atheist if he wasn't born in his country. If he says yes, then he's a hypocrite. Leave hypocrites alone.

>>596880

Whats the first symbol on the hat supposed to represent?

Maybe mention that

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/chapter-2-religious-switching-and-intermarriage/

Kids growing up in atheist households are the most likly to abandon the faith of their parents. (as long as you ignore millenials which are still pretty young and may become religious later in their life).

It may be that a Christian upbringing makes you more likly to be a christian and a muslim upbringing means you're probably a muslim but an atheist upbringing means you're probably not an atheist.

>I tried to explain that objective truth doesn't change based on which country you live in

I think you are missing the point of this argument, it is not that truth is relative but that your beliefs are informed more by your culture than by reason. For 70% of the world population this is certainly true and why you can effectively generalise a persons belief set based on geography.

The argument against this of course is that it doesnt actually address the arguments made for God and Christianity, so much as it hides from them by attempting to de-legitimise all possible arguments.

The Christian version of this is saying something like all Athiests are Christians because atheism is just a rebellion against God

>>596880

I'm Orthodox and I was born to an atheist and a protestant.

The rest of my family is mostly irreligious or catholic.

I live in a protestant area.

This disproves the atheist.

They always bring up the argument:

>Why do you believe the Bible is true?

<Because the Bible says so.

>>596880

>Can someone formulate a coherent argument against this?

I was born in an atheist country and converted at 23.

Just shout, "NOT AN ARGUMENT!" and you're good.

>>597630

There really isn't that many differences in the Bibles. Just different wordings and that's not a bad thing. Bibles like the KJV that follow the Luther canon are the odd ones out because they have removed books that were excepted by all of Christendom since the bible was finished being canonized by early Christians in the 5th century because it contradicted their preconceived notations as to what Christianity should be.

Martin Luther wanted to burn the book of James cause it contradicted his view on salvation and was about to trash revelations, fortunately his peers talked him out of it but the damage was done at that point

I just realized how bad I am at apologetics (not saying that I thought I was good at it), as the argument that "christians worship the same God as the Jews and muslims" came up, because "allah means god". I responded that the writings about allah are drastically different than Christian writings about God, to which the response was that Christ appears as a prophet in the quran, so it must mean that they worship the same God as I do. Any help?

>>597906

If you call someone on the phone and think they are a 7ft tall man named Tim, and after you finish speaking to them you find out it was really a 4 ft tall man named John, did you talk to Tim or John? If another person calls the same person, but knows it is a 4ft tall man named John, did you speak to two different persons?

You can worship God with a flawed understanding of God. Such worship may or may not profit you anything, but a flawed understanding alone doesn't mean they aren't worshipping the same God.

>>597637

>that first picture

holy heck that's retarded

>>597924

I was thinking more in that the things that their god tells them to do, how to behave are so vastly different from what Christ said, but your point is taken. I suppose I can't quite wrap my mind around how a severely flawed understanding doesn't have an affect on the deity one ends up worshipping as a result of that understanding.

>>597906

The easiest thing is to point out that Christians worship Jesus as God while Islam and Judaism obviously do not. Trinity and all that.

To Islam, Jesus is on the same tier as a random prophet like Elijah while in Christianity, that would be blatant heresy.

>>596895

For you.

.

How are we oppressed though? Could you give me a few reasons?

>>598338

That's called the genetic fallacy, OP

>>598756

Tell your teta I said mar7aba. I agree with all your points, though one thing still does concern me about Hezbollah, of which I am trying to understand the group's intentions. What has Hezbollah done against the Christians? Aside from the Civil War. The group protects Lebanon from Israel under the name of "resistance" and "al 3adou". Hezbollah in Syria liberated the Churches there. Was it all for PR?