/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>594402

It used to be important when my country was still catholic.

Nowadays nobody gives a shite, but they're inventing all sorts of secular fasting events these days to feel better about themselves.

>>594465

>Most here are just doing it to "act pious" while at the same time, they will scream at their friends, watch degeneracy and continue to tell overly sexual jokes. Oh but they dont eat meat so its ok. Oh, I mean they eat meat, but its for fasting, made of soy beans. Fasting cookies, Fasting sausages… I mean COME ON…

what country is that?

no.

t. american in a dead rust belt city filled with niggers and white trash on food stamps

people here are literally called "burgers" :(

>>594465

>they eat meat, but its for fasting, made of soy beans. Fasting cookies, Fasting sausages

wait, what?

>>594402

no which is why this country is immoral. One of the signs of a moral religious society is its fasting habits this means they control their urges. Exceptions happen(wizlam)

>>594474

If you want to fast but not really, you can just make tofu sausage or something, then you can eat meatlike stuff, and still pass your fasting! I don't even know why the Priests don't like it, I'm still following the rules!

Fasting is not at all important to America. In fact, the average American would stare indgnified if they heard somebody was fasting. They would think to themselves “Who does he think he is to fast? What an self-righteous man!” and may even give an angry display.

But in truth, fasting is extremely important. There is no Christianity without fasting. As to fast from food is to feast on the scriptures and the wisdom of God and of His holy people, and to spend much time in prayer, and to marvel at creation, that one need not rely upon daily meat/dairy/poultry/oily food/etc intake. Communion with God is sweeter than the sweetest foods known to man.

The Lord said that some demons can only be cast out through prayer and fasting. So we must fast. If not for our own souls and our own passions, we must do it for one another.

>>594408

RCs don't fast either tho

What are the rules for fasting, anyway? Don't eat at all on Wednesdays/Fridays? Eat only specific types of foods? How often?

>do they fast only because the calendar says so

Pretty much.

t.romaniafag

>>594505

it depends whether you are catholic/eastern orthodox and how devout you are

>Don't eat at all on Wednesdays/Fridays? Eat only specific types of foods? How often?

Its mainly reduced intake of food and avoiding meat and milk related products and never complete starving

Hijacking this thread a bit. I'm new to the Way and I'm thinking of doing my first lent. Problem is I have no idea how it works. Should I eat three meals a day only smaller portions or should I eat once or twice a day? Should I only drink water or can I drink something else as well? You get the picture, help a nigga out here.

>>594402

Finland. Not important at all. My mother considered the approximate fast time a good excuse to save on the food budget after all the Christmas treats. So we would still eat meat and stuff, but along the lines of sausages and minced meat, which wasn't at all special or limited to that time of the year, just plain no-frills ordinary food.

In Finland there is a secular tradition called the Dropless January. Many people choose to abstain from alcohol for the whole month after the heavy drinking associated with New Year's Eve. Funnily enough this is more popular than the religious fasts.

>>594501

>RCs don't fast

Nigga we invented the whole 'friday is fish day' thing because of fasting.

Absence of meat on fridays and the 40-day Lent fast is also still mandatory.

>>594465

>milk products such as cheese

Since when is dairy forbidden?

Us Latin-riters even eat seafood for Christ's sake!

It would seem that the Orthodox have overdone it, making things out to be a quasi-competition, far too political as usual…

>>594651

you got a source on this? my church distributes calendars that fluctuate a lot less than this - mainly strict fasts on wednesdays/fridays and during the 'traditional' fasting seasons with wine. oil, and fish allowed during feasts. other than that there's nothing regarding those things mentioned in the days shaded in blue or yellow

>>594751

Antiochian.org

>>594758

>antiochian

thanks brother, that explains everything i needed to know. no disrespect to my antiochian brethren but my priest has said the antiochians are known for their more relaxed fasting schedule.

>>594713

Pharisaic boasting: the post

>>594787

I'm an anon. There is no reputation, and therefore no boasting. Besides, if I was speaking about myself rather than others, I would have only shameful things to say. But take away this: Fasting is important. There is no faith without fasting. We must take fasting seriously. If we diminish fasting as >>594747 wants, we will have replaced the faith given to us by the grace of our Lord with a faith of our own making.

>>594809

>Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

>>594814

not even relevant. We don't fast to stop some defilement. If that's what crosses your mind, I must suggest a reading of Matthew 17. Never in scripture has fasting ever been associated with abstaining from defilement, so it appears to me that you misunderstand what fasting is. It is our weapon against the flesh. In fasting, we rebuke the flesh instead of indulging it. We come to see how treacherous the flesh is. By the power of Christ, our fleshly passions are conquered and reoriented for His glory. When we crave something sweet, we pray to God for His sweet mercy and lovingkindness. When we seek nourishment, we consume the meat of the scriptures. When we thirst, we sing His praises. Should we wish for glory, we unlock the treasure trove of humility by almsgiving and giving thanks to God, for every good deed is from above. Etc. etc. etc.

Again, not talking about myself here, because it's shameful how badly I fall short.

>>594825

By far this is one of the most pathetic explanations that I have ever heard, Eating sourcream doesnt prevent one from doing such things. Eating a sausage doesnt prevent one from doing such things. And especially when they replace their usual diet with "lent products" such as sausages made of soybeans, ice cream, made of plant milk and so on. It would be thousand times more better and efficient, if lent would actually be to combat real desires and pleasures, instead of just food, like abstaining from playing, abstaining from watching TV or so on. We waste much larger time on random different activities, rather than eating, especially in modern times, when nearly all food is literal garbage and malnutritious, barely allowing our organism to live and function.

So I'm sorry if I dont take "le weapon against flesh" seriously anymore.

>>594831

> By far this is one of the most pathetic explanations that I have ever heard,

God bless you too anon.

>Eating sourcream doesnt prevent one from doing such things. Eating a sausage doesnt prevent one from doing such things.

Eating sourcream or any other indulgent food gives a superficial contentment. Easy to eat these things and forget to pray incessantly. Easy to eat these foods and relax instead of reading the scriptures and praying for the sick and the traveling.

>And especially when they replace their usual diet with "lent products" such as sausages made of soybeans, ice cream, made of plant milk and so on.

Everybody knows the meme about how oreos are fast-compliant. Don't be blinded by others' mistakes. Don't get caught up ridiculing others for fucking up their fast. Rather, do yours properly and have others in your prayers. Don't get hung up on others' impiety. Pray for them instead.

A good route to go for is eating only veggies and rice, maybe with the occasional potato or beans. Nothing cooked in oil.

>It would be thousand times more better and efficient, if lent would actually be to combat real desires and pleasures, instead of just food, like abstaining from playing, abstaining from watching TV or so on.

That's part of it. I'm sure it's the same way with the RCs but for orthos, fasting is not merely a diet. Fasting, prayer, and almsgiving all go together. If any one is missing, then it's mission failure.

>We waste much larger time on random different activities, rather than eating, especially in modern times, when nearly all food is literal garbage and malnutritious, barely allowing our organism to live and function.

Then take the fasting seasons as an opportunity to cultivate the incessant prayer which St Paul writes about.

> So I'm sorry if I dont take "le weapon against flesh" seriously anymore.

Anymore?

1 Timothy 4:1-3, the thread.

>>594838

>Eating sourcream or any other indulgent food gives a superficial contentment. Easy to eat these things and forget to pray incessantly. Easy to eat these foods and relax instead of reading the scriptures and praying for the sick and the traveling.

Lovely fairytales. Too bad that it's the other way around. Most people during fasting days mostly think about when will it end so that they can finally get something normal to eat. Its basically a mini ramadan.

>>594809

When did I even imply that fasting should be "diminished"?

You just completely ignored the point I was making, and you made a completely false accusation.

>>594938

Most people are only culturally religious, then? Color me surprised

>>594938

Of course there are moments when that crosses the mind. That's when you know it's time to pray. Again, don't obsess over others' impiety. That is a distraction.

Seriously, my dude, argue against me all you want, but Christ himself told us to fast. Fasting is intrinsically part of the faith.

>>594988

First you express outrage that people are fasting from dairy. Then you accuse them of being political. Have a bit of self reflection and also recognize that we did not invent the fasting seasons post-schism. This tradition has been in place since the early united church. Canons from before the schism endorse the same kind of fasting we do today. The apostles fast is there in the 4th century, as evident in one of Athanasios's writings. The dormition fast is there in the 5th century, as evidenced by St Leo the Great's comments in 450 AD. Etc etc etc. So for one reason or another, the west is the one that changed and discarded most of the fasts.

>>595052

Take it easy, friend.

I agree that the Catholic west has unfortunately largely lost the practice of fasting. However, most eastern Catholic rites have fasting calendars comparable to most Orthodox.

Like it's been pointed out multiple times in this thread, fasting has become an empty custom rather than a pious practice in many (most?) communities of Orthodox christians.

I still stand by my original post here >>594747

>>595071

>fasting is an empty practice for most orthodox Christians

Even if true, what's it to you? Should others' impiety indignify you?

Let's put it this way. If someone smuggled the body and blood of Christ to their homes, put them on a pedestal, and made blood sacrifices before them, that'd be an absolute abuse. That's an understatement. But this is no excuse to abolish the eucharist. So likewise an abuse of the fast mustn't be used as an excuse to abolish the fast. Both the eucharist and fasting are inseparable from the faith. Remove either and it's not Christianity anymore.

>>595324

Again, I wasn't advocating for anything like that.

My point is that fasting is a spiritual exercise, not a sacrament like the eucharist. When fasting is not done for the right reasons, it can become worthless, even destructive in some instances. You are comparing apples and oranges.

No one (certainly not me) was ever arguing against fasting. I am arguing against turning spiritual practices into profane customs, etc.

>>594842

>1 Timothy 4:1-3

<[1] Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared, [3] Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.

<3] "Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats": He [Paul] speaks of the Gnostics, the Marcionites, the Eneratites, the Manicheans, and other ancient heretics, who absolutely condemned marriage, and the use of all kind of meat; because they pretended that all flesh was from an evil principle. Whereas the church of God, so far from condemning marriage, holds it a holy sacrament; and forbids it to none but such as by vow have chosen the better part: and prohibits not the use of any meats whatsoever in proper times and seasons; though she does not judge all kind of diet proper for days of fasting and penance.

>>594651

I don't fast because my current diet is only eating steak and duckfat and drinking water. Been doing it for five years and never felt more healthy and energized. I do not think eating vegetables, particularly only vegetables, is healthy.

>>595549

He is actually right in the last part at least, if he was talking about permanent vegan diet. It might end with problems with digestive system, such as gastric ulcer, given experience from my relatives.

>>595494

>and prohibits not the use of any meats whatsoever in proper times and seasons

>in proper times and seasons

Times and seasons which it decided and then commanded men to abstain from meats.

Galatians 4

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

>>594402

Pretty important until semi-enforced atheism by the communists.

>>595553

Vegetarian should pose no problems, vegan is meme tier at best.

Only eating steak, duckfat and drinking water is not healthy.

You're looking at dangerous amounts of cholesterol and saturated fats only burned when doing heavy physical exercise or labor.

Heck I almost forget but the chances of getting mad cow disease also increase.

>>594501

Luke 18

>10 'Two men went up to the Temple to pray, one a Pharisee, the other a tax collector.

>11 The Pharisee stood there and said this prayer to himself, "I thank you, God, that I am not grasping, unjust, adulterous like everyone else, and particularly that I am not like this tax collector here.

>12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes on all I get."

>13 The tax collector stood some distance away, not daring even to raise his eyes to heaven; but he beat his breast and said, "God, be merciful to me, a sinner."

>14 This man, I tell you, went home again justified; the other did not. For everyone who raises himself up will be humbled, but anyone who humbles himself will be raised up.'

<11 The Pharisee stood there and said this prayer to himself, "I thank you, God, that I am not grasping, unjust, adulterous like these Americans, and particularly that I am not like this tax collector here.

<12 I fast six gorillion times a year; I pay tithes on all I get."

>>595675

God bless you, anon. You see that when others speak of the joy of fasting and why fasting is a good thing, they're really just bragging about their own piety. Especially when they did not say they were pious fasters themselves. You are the most observant of anons.

>>595612

>Times and seasons which it decided

by authority of heavenly mandate

<God's Church on earth

>and then commanded men to abstain from meats.

>men

All Christians*

>Galatians 4

<[10] You observe days, and months, and times, and years.

<[10] "You observe days": He speaks not of the observation of the Lord's day, or other Christian festivals; but either of the superstitious observation of days lucky and unlucky; or else of the Jewish festivals, to the observance of which, certain Jewish teachers sought to induce the Galatians.

You do realize all these letters from Paul were written to various churches, the locations of which the names of these books get their names (Galatians, Timothy is a letter to Timothy about specific times and places.) Mind you, I am sure he did not intend for you or anyone else to pick and choose sentence fragments to appropriate for yourself as a rather unimpressive apology for your indefensible heretical opinions…

>>595549

>>595671

You're ignorant, Google "zerocarb" or look at the faq on /r/zerocarb. Confusingly, the name does not accurately describe the diet. It is anti-plant as well. Most people only eat beef, lamb, drink water or bone broth.

>>594523

>I'm thinking of doing my first lent

I recommend doing it in such a manner that it is not photogenic.

Anyone here fast on just water and maybe coffee as well or just me?

>>594523

When fasting, a person is permitted to eat [maximum] one full meal, as well as two smaller meals [read: snacks] that together are not equal to a full meal.

>>594747

Where I'm from (Albanian Catholic) abstaining from eggs and diary is part of the fast

Here's what perplexes me about America, it is the most pro-Jesus western country in the world but yet it is only relatively recent that fasting is popular while it was practically unheard of during the 2000s and before, how does that even happen? You would of thought that during the years when they used to fight the degeneracy of homosexuality, fornication, drunknardness, and anything that promotes occultism, demons, and/or Satan in a positive light (though on the last one they were missing the marks quite a bit on the last one) you would of thought fasting would of been part of the culture

Not that big where I’m from.

Usually the typical ‘I’m not gonna eat chocolate for a day’ meme.

I usually fast by either not drinking water, eating food or bathing (any water contact at all) for short fasts up to 5 days and allow myself to drink water for prolonged fasting up to 30 days.

What does fasting look like in Christian countries? Are you not allowed to buy beef on a Friday? How is it enforced?

>>599969

?? what ??

>But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; [Matt 6:17]

No water just sounds like a bad idea to me. Have you done this under the direction of your priest or just because you felt like it?

test

>>599969

No water is the exact opposite of what you should do. If anything, you could do a water and bread only fast. My friend you will die an avoidable death if you do this nonsense at the wrong time. Also this >>599976

>>599981

>>599976

I don’t dry fast that often.

Waterfasting is my standard fasting method.

And don’t worry I know when to stop fasting.

>>596158

>Mind you, I am sure he did not intend for you or anyone else to pick and choose sentence fragments to appropriate for yourself as a rather unimpressive apology

Look, 1 Timothy 4:1-3 tells us that in the latter times one of the doctrines of devils will commanding men to abstain from meats. Not actual fasting, of course. But rather commanding it to be done, which negates it entirely.

The fact some people made up a "proper times and seasons" chart (that you referred to) that is commanded to be followed is exactly what Galatians 4 is talking about. Commanding men to abstain from meats according to a calendar is something that both passages warn about. Furthermore, this is in contradiction to Romans 14:5-6 as well. You can make up lame excuses to get you out of these, but that makes you no different than the scribes and Pharisees of Mark 7:9-13 who make up excuses of why they do not have to follow the scripture. That's all you're really doing, negating scripture using half-baked excuses. I warned you.

>>599909

There was more awareness of 1 Timothy 4:1-3 back then. Also, Matthew 6:16 says that he who makes it known to others that he fasts is a hypocrite, so when they did fast they weren't telling anyone about it. Same thing with private prayers. They weren't telling people about how many prayers they did. Because for both of these activities, doing them to be seen of men means you have your reward. Same for almsgiving by the way. Doing them to be seen of men is called hypocritical by Jesus Christ Himself, and the people then believed that.