/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Suicide is for cowards. Dying's easy, living's what's hard.

>>591904

>he's with God now

He's without God now

Its when a person reaches a point where their attachment to life has diminished to the point that suicide becomes a viable answer to the problem of suffering. Depression erodes ones attachment to life.

Then of course are simply those for who physical suffering reaches such an extreeme point life can no longer be bearable -for instance for the people in the World Trade Towers who chose to throw themselves out of the windows rather than burn to death.

Finally there are those who do it for higher causes martyrs (religious and political).

>>591911

Not always, choosing life 99 times out of 100 is the easy option.

>>591918

>Its when a person reaches a point where their attachment to life has diminished to the point that suicide becomes a viable answer to the problem of suffering

ya that doesn't make any sense to me unless the person has an objective physical disease causing them pain, even then there's always the chance of overcoming the pain and fighting through it

if someone is sad they should figure out why and overcome it, giving up is just senseless

>>591904

If the suicide is a result of depression it can be from atrophy in the pre-frontal cortex and hippocampus. Prolonged depression and anxiety causes this atrophy. When the pre-frontal cortex is impaired, the logic center of the brain is not working adequately. Which is why depressed people take their life, from illogical thinking. If someone is depressed it is imperative that they seek help early on.

Suicide makes sense for an atheist. If you are hurtling unavoidably towards oblivion anyway, why not hasten the process, if life feels unbearable?

why do people want to increase the suicide rate?

>but I'm not sure what happens to people who suicide.

What lever would happen if you normally die. King Saul and someothers in the Bible killed thenselves and are in Heaven

>>591921

This is faulty logic. Only if the person is a true believer would suicide be illogical. Most of the world are not true believers. Without a devotion to god, suicide is the logical option for most people. The fact that most people do not take this option just shows the illogical nature of human reasoning. To have a permanent solution to the hollowness of life is defacto a cure all to a pure material world view. Philosophers so not puzzle over why people kill themselves, but why do they not kill themselves.

>>591904

People kill themselves more often then not because their sense of joy is so underwhelming that its not even worth seeking out. Leaving nothing to strive for. Pain or suffering is generally not the actual issue (the rare medical suicides aside). Once pleasure has lost its flare, what else does this world over? The world has nothing else to give. Without something to strive towards life is easily valved less then death. This is why suicide is the privileged of wealthier life styles.

Seeking god,or seek something not easily obtainable (good family, wealth, prestige, ec…) can give life meaning. Meaning gives us a reason to suffer life, whether it be physical, emotional, stress, finicial, spritual, and so one. As long as meaning is in a persons life they value life more than death. But all non-spiritual things can be obtained and then people will find that it is not fulfilling to have. It is the striving for something that gives meaning. But for less spiritually developed or highly worldly people think that striving for sex, drugs, popularity- all easily obtained - is life. But no matter your pleasure you can only masturbate your senses with it so many times before it losses it flare and sense of reward. If a person has come to a conclusion that what used to give pleasure is dead and does not have any others to pursue to drive them, action and motivation fail to justify the suffering of waking up. This stage is where most suicides find themselves. There are other reasons but this is the most common.

>>591904

>Why do people kill themselves?

I wanted revenge on a scale I can't see myself managing; I want to avenge historical crimes in addition to modern ones, and potentially future ones. I wanted to go to hell and get two things with me. A shovel and a chain. Then I would have dug hell deeper, and dragged others down. To show them equality.

>but I'm not sure what happens to people who suicide.

Good. You're not the final say on the matter. Not all suicides are motivated as mine. Plus, the suicidal get a spiritual/mystical experience before their deed.

>>591920

>ya that doesn't make any sense to me

Dont worry time will cure your lack of empathy and understanding.

If you lose all hope, life becomes only painful. You want to kill yourself to end your misery. It's not that hard.

>apparently no one knew he was having problems or depressed except a close friend

With some people, you may not even be able to tell that they're in a bad place. Introverts especially. They can be at war with themselves inside their head but show little emotion on their face. Or even talk about it.

>>591954

I actually though his 'rant' was very true and pertinent. Judging by the picture you attached, you're likely going through an edgelord phase though so I can understand why you might get defensive when presented with a statement like that.

Two kinds of suicides, the first feel no satisfaction from life so checking out makes sense to them, the other hates themselves and thus wish themselves ill. Both are pretty sinful worldviews when you think about it.

>>592009

if you had suicidal thoughts then that's fine, but some people never have and find it hard to imagine such a mentality.

the spoiler message makes no sense, and was patently false.

I suffer from depression; in the past it was worse.

I attempted suicide because I believed I was beyond salvation and Hell was the only place I could end up in; life made no sense, I believed I was but scum and worthy of nothing.

>>592040

> I believed I was but scum and worthy of nothing

because of something you did that was bad? or because you didn't achieve anything?

>>592038

are you OP with a different ID? I wrote a long reply but I just realized you might not be him lol

>>591928

This.

You know the song:

>The game of life is hard to play. I'm gonna lose it anyway.

If you don't believe there's anything greater, and you know for a fact (barring a complete rewrite of our understanding of physics/entropy in the next decade) that you're boned like every other mortal, once things seem irreparable, it is logical to call it quits and get it over with. At least, in that mindset.

>>591938

>Kill myself and drag others with me

Dude , you talk like an even edgier version of devil than devil

>>592067

this

>but I don't know how to find Him

keep trying, it just takes time… perhaps a bit harsh, but one monk said that it depends on how many years we have lived in sin and disconnection from God

so he said like, if you're 40 years old you're gonna need at least 10 or 5 years to start opening the door to mental health. then, he says, when the light starts to enter the room, you gain hope and more strength and it's easier to move the door because the hinges have lost their grip

it's better to gain something in 10 years of hardship but know you have it and it's there, than achieve it in a week and become proud and end up worse than you were

im not the one to talk, but

tl;dr it takes time

>>592038

>the spoiler message makes no sense, and was patently false.

Most relevant reply already provided:

<Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

As well as here >>592009

>>592006

> The second picture

> He knows

Just let me be

It's simple; they're filled with despair. You'll never be to understand unless you become suicidal yourself.

>>591911

That really depends on a person's value system.

>>591929

Really makes you think.

>>591936

"Philosophy is a rehearsal for death." - Plato

>>592489

They just couldn't carry their cross and emulate Jesus's selflessness.

Robin Williams suicided and now people are doing the same. Life is hard and then you die. Christ gave his life for something but that's very different. People that commit suicide are egoistic.

When you are actually in the mindset of suicidality, oftentimes you think of yourself as a burden, and that your loved ones and the world would be better and happier if you weren't there. It's a terrifying mindset to be in if you haven't been in it before.

t. formerly suicidal

Sometimes I want to give up. Sometimes I want to put an end to everything.

But I wont. Lord have mercy on me.

>>591913

We can't say this.

Catechism of the catholic church number 1861 :

>Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. ```However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.```

I can't understand the nihilists/atheists who believe they're gated on both sides by infinite oblivion. But they're currently living some life very distinct from that oblivion. Wouldn't it make more sense to experience more things, even endure sufferings, since it's so rare compared to the infinite oblivion.

But yeah it's a mortal sin and a guaranteed spot in hell.

>>591904

>I never understood this mentality.

You should never seek to understand this.

Some knowledge by and of itself can be harmful.

My explanation is this: Nihilism. I hated not only my life but the very fact of my existence. I condemned my very existence because if I never existed, I wouldn't have to endure all my suffering. The only cure to depression and nihilism is faith and a life-affirming worldview. It worked for me and I don't want to die anymore.

>>591911

Retarded platitude.

It takes balls to off yourself. It doesn't take shit to keep on living.

>>591920

>there's always the chance of overcoming the pain and fighting through it

Most people need to reach out for help. This is especially hard to do for men, because they resent themselves for needing help.

>>591929

Malevolence.

>>591930

God's mercy is stronger than any sin, but you should never expect mercy.

>>591936

>People kill themselves more often then not because their sense of joy is so underwhelming that its not even worth seeking out.

Indeed. Eathly pleasures are empty and offer no meaning and our world is destroying the very soul.

>>592040

Same here. I'm glad you're better now.

>>605113

This.

Fear if hell is the main reason i have not committed suicide. I would prefer nothing to this life.

I should also be aiming for heaven, anotheer reason not to kill myself. But it seems like such a distant possibility to be honest

>>591904

I think of it all the time because I fail at everything and it seems like I'm more useful dead. Its maddening how people like him >>592489 don't understand its not about selfishness, most of them just can't bear it anymore because of people like you who would talk about how you should not be affected by things like that even though they would get angry and do reckless things if it happens to them.

>>605113

can confirm