Why is not believing in Christianity an evil thing in your opinion? The human mind is extremely complex, and it's affected by a lot of variables outside of our control, that being the case it seems to me that is natural and expected that some humans reject

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Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 18:32:41 134818 No.591293

Why is not believing in Christianity an evil thing in your opinion? The human mind is extremely complex, and it's affected by a lot of variables outside of our control, that being the case it seems to me that is natural and expected that some humans reject a certain ideology and religion.

I don't believe in Christianity myself for both intellectual and moral reasons. I don't see it like malice, like "you in your heart you're wrong, but you decide to not believe anyway!!". No, I just go with makes more sense to me. I don't claim to be a big intellectual, or that I have flawless moral values, but I do what I can. And you Christians are the same in my opinion, you just do what makes more sense to you, we just interpret information in a different way.

Discuss.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 18:35:24 94e270 No.591295

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>>591293

>how is living in a lie an evil

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 18:40:24 68e66f No.591302

It seems to me that people reject the truth of Christ because they don't like it. And they don't like it because they are too proud, or lack any other virtue.

When ou say "for moral reasons" it means that it goes against you being your own God.

When you say "for intellectual reasons" it means that it goes against the materialism that enables the former.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 18:44:23 ab0538 No.591303

>>591302

>Oh you're atheist? Well, did you know that atheists have…

>Moral values that are rather atheistic?

>Heh, got you there, pal

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 18:47:21 1220d4 No.591304

>>591293

>both intellectual and moral reasons

>I just go with makes more sense to me

Maybe you should explore history, societal conventions and behavior of western nations in the past couple centuries why Christianity is 'the utmost perfection in morality and intellectuality. If you can grasp how much our sinful nature (can benefit, become truly free in this world, and lead a good and righteous life) is complemented and interwoven with Christianity, then you might comprehend why it is also evil to deny our Lord and Savior.

>we just interpret information in a different way

If you talk about how men and women interpret information differently, you'd be right, in a way. But as far as I have experienced everyone knows what is inherently right and wrong, some are more and some are less capable of rationalizing this ingrained truth. The ability to strike the right chords will make others see how someone is morally corrupted or pure.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 18:48:13 6aa20c No.591305

>>591293

>outside of our control

If it's really outside your control, you aren't guilty.

But it's also true that many people aren't Christian not due to such unwilled (I'm assuming you genuinely want to know the truth, whatever its consequences are) ignorance, but due to negligence, fear of what follows or other such reasons.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 19:28:07 134818 No.591331

>>591295

>how is living in a lie an evil

Yes, how? I mean, you could say people are being ignorant, but I don't see that as evil.

>>591302

>It seems to me that people reject the truth of Christ because they don't like it

>When ou say "for moral reasons" it means that it goes against you being your own God.

I don't believe that someone converts to Christianity in a vacuum. Someone has to be compatible with a religion before converting. In this case both religious and non-religious are "their own God", the only difference is that religious people justify their morality with something bigger.

>When you say "for intellectual reasons" it means that it goes against the materialism that enables the former.

Not really, both of these are unrelated. Even if I thought Christianity was the perfect religion in terms of morals, I would still have a hard time believing on it.

Anyway, keep in mind that this is isn't just a Christians vs. Non-religious thing. Most religious people deny Christianity. So even if I concede the argument that "non-religious people want to be their own gods, and use materialism to justify their beliefs", this wouldn't explain all the other people.

>>591304

>Maybe you should explore history, societal conventions and behavior of western nations in the past couple centuries why Christianity is 'the utmost perfection in morality and intellectuality

Hum, can you elaborate more a little bit? What did you like about western nations in the past couple of centuries?

>But as far as I have experienced everyone knows what is inherently right and wrong, some are more and some are less capable of rationalizing this ingrained truth

Don't you think people can do evil with good intentions?

>>591305

>If it's really outside your control, you aren't guilty.

In a certain way it is. I don't control how my brain developed, and how it process information. If I sincerely believe that a secular argument is better than a Christian argument, what exactly can I do? I can't lie to myself.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 19:36:23 80b225 No.591334

>>591331

If you seriously believe that secular arguments are stronger than Christian apologetics then you need to stop watching videos about people can grab bananas and do some actual research.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 20:15:14 1220d4 No.591351

>>591331

>What did you like about western nations in the past couple of centuries?

For the most part it was better structured, more homogenous in its meme, rules and laws appealed to the nature of men and women alike, and mankind in general, and kept the self-destructive animalistic behaviors in check through proper punishment. Even though you couldn't explain back then through empiric studies why insincerety, hedonism, faggots, being a sissy, whores, infidelity, impurity, philosophy, Jews, Muslims, pagans etc. etc. were despised/looked down upon, The Bible already said why or you just had to take it without reason, well actually because God said so. Now, through extensive behavorial, biological, chemical research, for example, we know why it is and was the case, or at least it leads into a coherent whole under the lines, to say the least. I'd like to elaborate more upon that, but I do not know where to start because I haven't organized my rationale on the whole matter. Months of /pol/, reading specialist articles and (classic) novels, introspection, self-doubt, and observations led me to the current disposition I currently have.

>Don't you think people can do evil with good intentions?

Only if one has a mental disability, was deceived on the pretense of doing something good by someone, or lack the foresight. Though, the latter is quite egoistic because one was too proud for admitting that, which is inane, even wicked.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 20:17:20 134818 No.591352

>>591334

I already read Lee Strobel, CS Lewis, Chesterton, among others. I'm familiar with scholasticism and similar philosophical arguments too (which I partially agree, since I'm a deist). What else am I missing?

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 20:17:58 23cfff No.591353

>>591293

When you realize evil isn't a presence of badness but a lack of goodness it will make perfect sense

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 21:10:36 344948 No.591373

>>591352

Did you try Aquinas yet?

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 21:27:24 7e4a5d No.591377

>>591331

>In this case both religious and non-religious are "their own God"

What about those who renounce being their own god and genuinely seek to place the Creator as the one true God, not themselves or anything they imagined?

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 21:32:54 3e75ef No.591380

>>591331

>In this case both religious and non-religious are "their own God"

Not fully and for non-religious, this is most prominent, as limited beings cannot satisfy themselves ever and this is why everyone is seeking pleasure outside of him. Only being that can fully satisfy our needs is an infinite being, that is God.

I think this was one of the "pragmatic" arguments from one philosopher, cant remember which

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 21:44:35 14c2d5 No.591382

Because you don't get your sins forgiven and you teach things that the Bibke condemns.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 21:55:18 29a1ee No.591385

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Christian worldview assumes that ultimately God judges people fairly and since he is benevolent offers redemption in his hand to all men at all times. Since God’s love for everyone is equal, and since he is in his infinite power and wisdom able to tailor his ways to the needs and foibles of every individual soul, there should be no way that by the end of one’s life they haven’t been offered a real call to salvation.

The Christian perspective of man is ultimately moralistic - humanity’s core fault is tendency to sin, for which it is morally culpable. It is the source of ignorance and hubris and so on. Because of God’s fairness and abundant capacity for grace, if a person disbelieves or doesn’t follow God, it is generally thought of as having at core a genesis in sin or immorality. Selfishness, stubbornness, something like that. A rejection of God and his ways as opposed to simple disbelief - and often this is a characteristic of disbelief, too. But always? There is little room for the “reasonable nonbeliever”, even if there are some Christians who profess to acknowledge their existence. All intellectual objections are treated with suspicion and assumed, at root, to stem from personal sin, or spiritual obstinacy. Man is corrupt, especially without God. Barriers to belief from retardation mental illness or formidable amount of ignorance might be considered exceptions, but a person in full control of their facilities and who has the potential to properly engage with Christianity is considered personally responsible for their faith or lack thereof.

One argument is that since God is so “hidden”, the existence of reasonable atheists is almost certain, and that therefore disbelief is morally justifiable (oriented to truth) which undermines God’s desire to bestow faith, a necessary component of salvation, upon all his children.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-hiddenness/

There is no perfectly rational person of course. We all have our biases and prejudices and subconscious desires. We may assume that lying behind the intellectual Christian’s assent to God is a deep-seated fear of death and uncertainty, or a need for paternal figure or some shit. That is not to say that we can’t use rational means to come to a more accurate, more justified understanding of the world, but that we all have motivations that will push us in different directions. They are not definitive and are instead often a source of deep personal conflict between belief and desire, whatever your beliefs. It is often frustrating that Christians will assume bad faith in the extreme, but it is only a natural, logical element of their understanding of the world and human nature.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 23:17:10 bb88c1 No.591413

>>591293

These ENFP types are so annoying.

Everything is valid, never look deeper than the surface :DDDDDDD

There are lots of proofs for God’s existence such as the ontological argument. Jesus’ death and resurrection is a logical way to prove God loves us. Please stop blindly going with what seems mainstream and study Christianity in detail before you make a decision.

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 23:40:13 29a1ee No.591419

>>591413

>There are lots of proofs for God’s existence such as the ontological argument.

lol

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 23:42:05 0f142f No.591420

>>591413

>Taking MBTI more seriously than Tumblr memes

Lol

Christanon 01/19/18 (Fri) 23:50:36 c33889 No.591423

>>591293

>Why is not believing in Christianity an evil thing in your opinion?

There's a difference between "cannot" and "will not" believe.

The former is a bit nebulous since the individual may still try to believe with all their might, but still not "get" anywhere with it. Any honest soul can totally understand not "getting" it, and doing so without malice. This does not mean giving up altogether, however. Sometimes it will just click for you.

The latter is when people have access to the truth, know it, but simply can't be bothered with it. It's an inconvenience or an embarrassment so they mock it or attack it. This is just pure pride. I honestly believe that the most militant atheists are just misotheists. They know God but just hate Him because "Thou thoughtest unjustly that I should be like to thee" Ps 49:21.

>The human mind is extremely complex, and it's affected by a lot of variables outside of our control, that being the case it seems to me that is natural and expected that some humans reject a certain ideology and religion.

The human mind isn't really that complex. This is new age psychobabble. It's actually pretty primal and deeply scarred by the damage done by our historic disobedience. Being a masturbator who gives to charity doesn't make you "good" or "complex", it just shows that you are all over the place.

Also, the desire for God isn't just some genetic quirk of nature that can be triggered by the proper environmental stimulus/stimuli like depression or cancer, it is hardwired into us, and it isn't even hidden.

>I don't believe in Christianity myself for both intellectual and moral reasons.

Such as? Because these two don't necessarily agree with each other.

>And you Christians are the same in my opinion, you just do what makes more sense to you, we just interpret information in a different way.

With respect, this isn't even an opinion. It's not even a fact. It's a thought-terminating cliche.

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 00:20:10 bb88c1 No.591430

>>591419

U totes debunkd id mane goojob :ddddddddddd

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 00:40:28 db46da No.591440

>>591293

>I don’t claim to have flawless moral values, but I do what

So do you believe in universal moral truths, anon? If so, whence do you derive them?

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 01:21:06 c67538 No.591453

>>591293

>gay anime poster

Like poetry

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 03:34:32 344948 No.591487

>>591413

do NOT bully enfp they are FRIENDS

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 04:02:32 c8aca0 No.591491

>>591293

disbelief is not evil, its just suboptimal and means you aren't realizing your full human potential.

disbelievers do not understand their position in the cosmos, their nature, where they came from and where they are going. So they will inevitably make a lot of unnecessary mistakes in life, they will cause themselves a lot of unnecessary suffering, confusion and worry.

>I don't believe in Christianity myself for both intellectual and moral reasons

It's not purely up to you, conversion can take a lifetime and maybe even beyond that….

>And you Christians are the same in my opinion, you just do what makes more sense to you, we just interpret information in a different way.

the point is to seek the truth, not wallow in interpretations or relativism

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 04:20:48 69ebb0 No.591493

>>591491

>disbelief is not evil

To believe in Jesus Christ is a command from God, going against a command is sin. Sin is evil.

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 05:18:36 2b7550 No.591508

>>591293

>Why is not believing in Christianity an evil thing in your opinion?

Because by rejecting the Son you by extension reject the Father(1 John 2:23). Christ is God and God is the source of good. Rejecting good is, obviously, evil.

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 05:33:25 cb9d7e No.591515

>>591493

Belief is an opportunity. Not taking that opportunity is not necessarily evil, it depends how the disbelief comes about and for what reason.

Lying is forbidden, but a person can lie in order to hurt people, or he can lie in order to save people. Motivation and context matters.

Jesus didn't come to condemn the world and demand that they bow before him, but to give people an opportunity. It's good news, not an ultimatum.

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 06:05:08 23cfff No.591528

>>591413

>believing in the horoscope

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 06:55:40 306457 No.591549

>>591515

>Belief is an opportunity

An opportunity to find salvation in Christ Jesus.

>Not taking that opportunity is not necessarily evil

How could rejecting the source of all that is good in this world be anything but an evil act? Perhaps thod who have not heard the Gospel have an excuse, but anyone who consciously rejects Christ welcomes evil.

>Lying is forbidden, but a person can lie in order to hurt people, or he can lie in order to save people. Motivation and context matters.

This is consequentialist nonsense. If the moral value of an act is dependent on its consequences then all acts are inherently amoral and it is the mere whims of fate that are the arbiters of morality.

>Jesus didn't come to condemn the world and demand that they bow before him, but to give people an opportunity. It's good news, not an ultimatum.

An utter bastardisation of the Gospel. The Gospel is both good news and an ultimatum: the threat of Hell to all who defy His will, and the offer of salvation to those who walk in Him. The two are inexectrible: there cannot be one without the other.

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 07:09:47 7fe9da No.591559

>>591303

Atheist morals are opinions. They never mattered.

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 08:14:43 68e66f No.591593

>>591303

Talking abot "atheist morals" is like talking about "four sided triangles"

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 08:25:00 cb9d7e No.591598

>>591549

this is all wrong and not worth engaging, of course it comes from your flag

Christanon 01/20/18 (Sat) 08:25:48 ab0538 No.591599

>>591559

>>591593