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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: f71d1ba7f69b11d⋯.jpg (131.28 KB, 800x587, 800:587, 3647373834.jpg)

0fa248 No.588289

35b863 No.588294

>>588289

figures of speech, limits of language, trying to speak to ancient folks in ways they can understand.

The OT doesn't pretend to be a science book explaining nature with precise technical jargon, its explaining general aspects of nature and reality using poetic and everyday language, the main point being that "God made it and it was good" and he is the one in control. The exact processes or patterns are left for us to discover.

Most of the verses I skimmed are really vague and weak. Do you have anything in particular u wanna talk about?


85b41e No.588295

>>588289

>Quoting the book of Job a.k.a. a poetical work of 2500 years ago

>Vague verses explaining the stretching out of the heavens are interpreted as meaning it's like a dome

Yeah, everybody can play this game.

>Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Ever seen a flat circle for a footstool?

Checkmate plebtheists :^)


0ba22e No.588305

>>588289

Those verses don't seem to be very strongly supporting the flat earth, but rather are figures of speech.


0fa248 No.588306

>>588305

>>588294

>when something doesn't make sense is a figure of speech

>when we have to defend our interests it is literal


5943dd No.588330

>>588295

Does this mean the universe should be the shape a throne?

I knew the church of sweden (Ikea) were onto something.


66cbc1 No.588336

>>588289

It doesn't say it's flat, it says "four corners of the Earth", which means "four directions on a map". As for the heavens being stretched out, they literally are: space is visibly and measurably expanding from a single point of origin.


0fa248 No.588342

>>588336

>"four corners of the Earth", which means "four directions on a map"

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/corner


0ba22e No.588344

>>588306

If you think that we can't tell when something is literal or metaphorical based on hermeneutics and textual analysis then you're just stupid.


5ea1bb No.588352

File: 1cfa4df586d8f21⋯.jpg (195.66 KB, 800x436, 200:109, YTC5.jpg)

>>588295

Actually


0fa248 No.588353

>>588344

what makes it metaphorical? because the pope says so?


35b863 No.588358

>>588306

do you have some specific verses that are confusing you?

Even the ancients understood the importance of poetic language.

>"For who that has understanding will suppose that the first, and second, and third day, and the evening and the morning, existed without a sun, and moon, and stars? And that the first day was, as it were, also without a sky? And who is so foolish as to suppose that God, after the manner of a husbandman, planted a paradise in Eden, towards the east, and placed in it a tree of life, visible and palpable, so that one tasting of the fruit by the bodily teeth obtained life? And again, that one was a partaker of good and evil by masticating what was taken from the tree? And if God is said to walk in the paradise in the evening, and Adam to hide himself under a tree, I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indicate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance, and not literally." - Origen, 2nd century


5ea1bb No.588361

I am not saying the earth is flat but that many near-Eastern civilizations did believe that and that the bible also communicates the same view. I would suggest anyone skeptical of this to look into the work of dr. Michael Heiser.

https://youtu.be/4g0Zs_EkGY8 <skip to 16:25


5943dd No.588363


0ba22e No.588365

File: 8b0b9e91d88d160⋯.jpg (7.32 KB, 157x135, 157:135, DRs7DcVVoAAXvcA.jpg)

>>588352

I hope this isn't serious.

>>588353

Well your first warning sign is that no one in Christian history interpreted the Earth as being flat. I was taught in school that Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand were scared to finance Columbus's expedition because they thought he would fall off of the earth. This is actually a total lie and everyone knew the Earth was round hundreds of years before Christ. (And see that word, "everyone" I just used, is clearly not literal. Likewise we say that it is clear and obvious whether or not such an expression is literal in Scripture.) Christians never believed the Earth was flat until some redneck in the sticks read it on a shitty website. The only people who still believe the Earth is flat today

Second of all, we can know which passages are literal in the Old Testament based on the sentence structure and the general writing style of the passages. Google it if you don't believe me.

>>588361

Are we being raided by Atheists false flagging as flat-earthers?


0ba22e No.588367

>>588365

>The only people who still believe the Earth is flat today

I forgot to finish that sentence, I meant to write "are some Muslims" after that.


5ea1bb No.588370

>>588365

No I am not an athiest. I sent you that link in hopes that you might benifit from a different point of view. Apparently you are unable to even entertain notions you disagree with.


35b863 No.588375

>>588353

if you can't tell metaphorical and literal language apart, you might be on the autism spectrum

no offense

do you enjoy reading fiction novels or poetry? or do you prefer non-fiction instead?


5da64f No.588379

>>588370

Flat earth theories have been going on for years, maybe we're not entertaining it because we're rotating on the same shit again for the hundredth time.


0ba22e No.588380

>>588370

>different point of view. Apparently you are unable to even entertain notions you disagree with.

I used to believe the Earth was hollow and we were in the inside. There's nothing new under the sun when it comes to weird earth theories for me. I don't believe that any more, of course, but the flat earth is just plain stupidity and if you cannot see that you may be autistic or living in a rural village.


5ea1bb No.588388

>>588379

>>588380

What are you two talking about?

I'll try to make this as clear as possible, perhaps it wasn't the last time I had made a post. I do not believe the Earth is flat, nor am I pushing any "Flat Earth" theory. I am saying many near Eastern ancient cultures believed in this, and that the Bible also communicates a similar worldview. Then I said if you are skeptical of this check out the work of dr. Michael Heiser a Semitic language expert. Then I linked you a video and said the relevant time to skip to…

Take away from it whatever you want to take away from it, I am just trying to show you a different perspective. But again it appears you are so opposed to the idea you aren't even willing to entertain the historical aspect of the view.


66cbc1 No.588404

>>588342

You fucking meme atheist. You literal subhuman baboon. You cannot apply English dictionary definitions to ancient Greek. It means the four fucking directions on a fucking map.


0ba22e No.588410

>>588388

>I'll try to make this as clear as possible, perhaps it wasn't the last time I had made a post. I do not believe the Earth is flat, nor am I pushing any "Flat Earth" theory. I am saying many near Eastern ancient cultures believed in this

Why? If you don't have any flat earth theory then why does this even matter? I already know this is a fact but why would you bring it up if you don't believe it?

>and that the Bible also communicates a similar worldview

Clearly it does not, because flat earth has never been a part of the teachings of any Christian church, nor any creed, nor the writings of the Saints, nor the writings of the reformers, nor the writings of any other Christians, save for the retarded flat earth theorists. So if you aren't one of them, why do you suggest this?

>I am just trying to show you a different perspective

You clearly are either trying to suggest something about the shape of the earth or the reliability of Scripture with your posts.


5ea1bb No.588423

>>588410

>Why? If you don't have any flat earth theory then why does this even matter? I already know this is a fact but why would you bring it up if you don't believe it?

Maybe….because this is information related to the thread.

>Clearly it does not, because flat earth has never been a part of the teachings of any Christian church, nor any creed, nor the writings of the Saints, nor the writings of the reformers, nor the writings of any other Christians, save for the retarded flat earth theorists. So if you aren't one of them, why do you suggest this?

I apologize maybe I should rephrase to " the Old Testament communicates a similar message"

>You clearly are either trying to suggest something about the shape of the earth or the reliability of Scripture with your posts.

Well I apologize if you feel that way, although I cannot say I am interested in changing your mind if feeling that way makes you happy. I think it would be more fair to ask me for my opinion on the implications before you assume. If you are the same anon then every post you make further clarifies for me that you are unable to entertain this idea without dragging along a lot of baggage.


0ba22e No.588429

>>588423

>I apologize maybe I should rephrase to " the Old Testament communicates a similar message"

Clearly, Christians believe everything written in the Old Testament? So surely at least one prominent Christian theologian, in at least one Christian church, should have mentioned this?

>further clarifies for me that you are unable to entertain this idea without dragging along a lot of baggage.

I told you, I used to believe in the flat earth (but then moved on to the inside-out hollow earth) so it's not like I haven't considered these things before. But the flat earth is clearly wrong.

Sage for beating my head against a wall.


3ea38f No.588485

File: b077df1a72aa495⋯.png (45.65 KB, 507x625, 507:625, inthebeginning.png)

>>588289

It's a very common technique to throw dozens or even hundreds of verses at someone so they can't respond all at once. Here, look at this first verse

>Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

This does not prove flat Earth or domed Heaven. All it's saying is that God spread out the Heavens and he can walk on water. The context of Job 9 is Job is talking about how mighty God is. He's not trying to explain the nature of the Earth, and what he says about the Earth in this verse doesn't contradict what we know

>Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.

Again, how does this prove flat Earth or domed sky? This person writing the article got so many verses it's hard to contradict them all, but you can see that this verse hasn't anything to do with flat Earth or domed sky

>Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

This is the closest we get to supporting your view, three verses in. Job says the sky is "as a molten looking glass," by this he could mean any number of things

>the sky is rounded off, like molted glass

>the sky is melted and hot, like molted glass

>the sky is clear, like molted glass

Given the use of "looking glass," I think the most likely meaning is that the sky is clear

>Genesis 1

Did you just try to cite an entire chapter of The Bible to prove your point? Genesis 1 never says the Earth is flat, nor does it say the sky is a dome over the Earth. And again, the point of Genesis 1 is that God is so powerful he can speak nothing into being. It's not trying to give any view on the shape of the Earth or Heavens

>Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

I have been rereading and rereading this verse, and I can't find any argument for a flat Earth or domed Heaven anywhere

>Psalm 104:

>1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

>2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

>3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

Again, the sky is stretched out. That doesn't make it a dome.

>Proverbs 8:27: When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Okay?

>Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

A sphere is something that is circular on all sides. If the Earth is referred to as a circle, that doesn't prove it's flat

>Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

What does this prove?

>Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

What does this prove?

>Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

What does this prove?

>Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

What footstool is a flat disk? This verse only makes sense if the Earth is either round or shaped like an ottoman

>Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

What does this prove?

>Amos 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The Lord is his name.

Again, this has nothing to do with flat Earth or domed Heaven


3ea38f No.588487

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>588485

>Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.

The Earth is in a set place. That doesn't prove it's flat or even unmoving. It doesn't say that the Earth is unmoving and by shaking it God moves it. It just says the Earth has a set place that God can move it out of. Even if the Earth is revolving, it still has a set place it must be at any time

>Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

The Earth is hung upon nothing. It is a globe that floats in space

>Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

The waters of the Earth are surrounded by boundaries. On a globe, those are called the coastal borders

>Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

The ends of the Earth is an expression. It doesn't mean the Earth is a straight line. It just means God sees all parts of the Earth

>Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

The ends of the Earth is an expression. It doesn't mean the Earth is a straight line

I think we get the picture. Most of these verses are tangential at best, and are only placed in in the hopes you won't read the whole thing. None of these verses say the Earth is a flat disk under a domed Heaven. Nice try, kiddo


32aa81 No.588488

>>588485

>Job says the sky is "as a molten looking glass,"

I love this verse. "Looking glass" unequivocally means mirror. This is basically telling us that the sky is a gas that refracts light.


ed931b No.588507

File: 3e2031e382cd726⋯.jpg (139.87 KB, 736x736, 1:1, 7c55c000ee4b1cd5d923008300….jpg)

So are they actually talking about dinosaurs or what? When I read it, it didn't really scream "dinosaur."


bd2b44 No.588508

File: 33fcaf84e3866cd⋯.jpg (134.34 KB, 1000x663, 1000:663, monkey-pulling-hippos-tail.jpg)

>>588507

>big ass animal with a big ass tail

Dunno what else it could be, tbh


101644 No.588509

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

With Anderson videos.


0ba22e No.588510

>>588507

>So are they actually talking about dinosaurs or what?

Probably not

>When I read it, it didn't really scream "dinosaur."

Because some people had to meme it into their fanfictions about creation (I say this as a believer in a young earth myself)


04e1f8 No.588512

>>588507

With all probability not.


fc0b6c No.588548


bd2b44 No.588567

>>588548

>satan eats grass


612b7f No.588570

>>588567

Satan eats ass.




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