Lets have a trinity thread.I am culturally atheist/pagan, but I consider myself a Christian, but still searching.I've read the New Testament twice, and recently started reading the Old Testament.I accept that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and die

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Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:15:12 c01bfb No.581970

Lets have a trinity thread.

I am culturally atheist/pagan, but I consider myself a Christian, but still searching.

I've read the New Testament twice, and recently started reading the Old Testament.

I accept that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and died for our sins. But from Scripture I just don't read that he is God.

His pre-existence is sketchy, I find it most plausible that the Word was God's plan to spread the good news, and Jesus was that vessel.

The man Jesus Christ did not perform miracles on his own will, but through the Holy Spirit with the authority given to him by God.

Where does it say that the Holy Spirit is a separate being? I see it as being a personification of God's power and spirit.

How do you explain 1 Timothy 2:5 as a trinitarian? It clearly lays out an unitarian relationship between Jesus and God.

The often-quoted "Only God can forgive sins" passage is just a joke. Trinitarians are siding with the Pharisees. The whole point was that Jesus proved them wrong -"the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins."

Jesus was given the authority by God to forgive sins ON EARTH.

But still, even though Scriptural support for the Trinity is non-existent, why did the Christians at Nicea arrive to the conclusion of the Trinity? Is Islam actually right and all the events going on in the modern world are God's punishment for idolatry?

Or are both stances correct and the Trinity is just a very weird way of exalting God's son without it technically being idolatry?

Help me out guys, I'm just having trouble with my faith.

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:17:09 c01bfb No.581971

>>581970

And whoops, the Lutheran flag is because the area where I live is nominally Lutheran (but not actually, and never has been). I posted with it once and forgot to remove it.

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:18:01 55fcd4 No.581972

>I am culturally atheist/pagan

what is this autism

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:21:23 c01bfb No.581975

>>581972

Certain Pagan elements are a part of my culture (deep respect for ancestors, words are sacred - saying something will make it happen) I've never done animal sacrifice, but I regularly visit a sacred grove near me.

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:26:54 7f5319 No.581977

File: e78e97eb036fb44⋯.gif (1.35 MB, 500x375, 4:3, C E A S E.gif)

E N O U G H

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:27:50 c01bfb No.581978

>>581977

What do you mean, anon? Have I done something wrong?

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:43:14 f13447 No.581989

>>581971

>>581975

SWEDEN YES

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:46:11 c01bfb No.581991

>>581989

Not Swedish.

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:47:46 02ea32 No.581992

>>581970

>even though Scriptural support for the Trinity is non-existent, why did the Christians at Nicea arrive to the conclusion of the Trinity?

It almost makes you wonder if scripture really does teach the Trinity and you're just misunderstanding it.

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:49:07 c01bfb No.581995

>>581992

But where, where is the trinity clearly laid out in Scripture? And if not, why is not clearly laid out?

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:53:19 fea8ab No.582000

>>581970

Ok so, without going into the Bible [Though read the Gospel of John again. John 1:1, but also John the baptist states several times that Christ came "before him", although he was born later - that is a reference to Jesus being the Word become flesh. Also as referrence: Gensis 1 and 2, Gospels in general - the Trinity is everywhere] let me explain the Trinity as best as I can.

There is one God. There aren't three gods or two and the /spirit/, there's only one God.

God is divine, that is: of Divine Substance (or Essence). Now, God is he who is. He is. He is pure existence. Without him nothing exists, because existence is an inherent "property" of God so to speak. For example we as humans do not have the inherent property of existence - we exist through God.

Ok, back to the Trinity. So God is three persons. God the Father, the Son (or Word) and the Holy Spirit. All 3 persons, one substance. Oh and please note that this is merely how we try to grasp God. The Trinity is the biggest mystery of all and if we perfectly knew it …. well then we would be God :^).

Ok so back to the persons: We have God the Father - the patriarch - who begets the Son. Practically the Word is "generated". Now we have the back-and-forth relationship between Father and Son - that is: Paternity (Father -> Son) and Filiation (Son -> Father). The Father gives Himself fully to the Son and the Son gives Himself fully to the Father - in perfect love - and from this, the Holy Spirit is spirated ("breathed forth") from the Father and the Son. Now, the Spirit gives Himself fully to the Father and the Son - and this is called Procession.

But how do we define or distinct the persons ? Well it's done like this: Every single unique and unrepeatable relationship is a person (or that which the relationship leads to so to speak).

Paternity comes only from the Father to the son, thus we have the Father.

Filiation comes only from the Son to the Father, thus we have the Son (Word, Jesus Christ in flesh).

Spiration is a process that is not unique, because it comes from the Father and the Son, but the "reverse" process, Procession, is unique in that it only comes from the Holy Spirit. This is why we distinguish also the Holy Spirit.

And thus, we have one God with 3 persons, of one substance, which exist in a certain hierarchy.

I hope I could clarify that a bit for you.

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 21:56:56 d51cd9 No.582002

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Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 22:03:55 c01bfb No.582005

>>582000

>>582002

Thank you. I've been thinking about this the wrong way - every verse that supports a trinitarian view, can and has been debunked in an unitarian fashion. But you have to think about them in a very different manner. The fact that Nicea happened the way it happened seems to give Trinitarianism the trump.

>The Trinity is the biggest mystery of all and if we perfectly knew it …. well then we would be God

How so? Isn't the Bible supposed to be as simple to understand as possible?

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 22:07:34 694750 No.582006

>>582005

The Bible is not the word of God in the way the Quran is. Aiming at pretensions of understanding God is the most extreme presumptuousness there can be. That's why Dante put the philosophers in the first circle of Hell.

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 23:09:59 fec13d No.582018

>>581970

https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2013/12/31/john-behr-on-the-trinity/

Christanon 01/01/18 (Mon) 23:15:17 3eb06b No.582021

>>582002

>has the power to resurrect

If I may intervene, can't Saints with the right spiritual gift do that too?

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 00:46:05 fadf68 No.582053

>>582005

>How so? Isn't the Bible supposed to be as simple to understand as possible?

The Bible helps us to come closer to understanding God, but ultimately you are trying to understand something that can never be fully understood. The Bible is not a reference manual.

>>582000

>from the Father and the Son

REEEEEE

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 00:51:58 fea8ab No.582056

>>582053

Cease your idiocy. I'm explaining the Trinity, and we don't need autistic screeching from schismatics. Rather care to explain to OP why you think the Filioque is wrong. Protip: it isn't tho.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 01:04:38 ffc0b3 No.582059

>>582021

Only other people. God, through Jesus Christ, is the only Being with the power to resurrect Himself.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 01:43:18 09a2d2 No.582071

>>582053

Not now. First we defend the Trinity, then we can have discussions on the Fillioque.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 01:52:50 ffd251 No.582074

DAILY REMINDER THAT THE FILIOQUE IS ARIAN SUBORDINATIONISM SIMPLY APPLIED TO THE SPIRIT INSTEAD OF THE SON

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 01:58:03 717458 No.582079

>>581995

"And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one."

1 John 5:7

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 02:05:17 80502e No.582083

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>>581970

>The often-quoted "Only God can forgive sins" passage is just a joke. Trinitarians are siding with the Pharisees. The whole point was that Jesus proved them wrong -"the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins."

>Jesus was given the authority by God to forgive sins ON EARTH.

The category issues!

Also, Isaiah 48:15-17

I, even I, have spoken and called him; I have brought him, and he will prosper in his way. Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there.”

And now the Lord God has sent me, and his Spirit. Thus says the Lord,your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:“I am the Lord, your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 02:22:20 2e3a25 No.582090

It doesn't matter whether the trinity doctrine is true or not, the mods ban non-trinitarians here so this is a trinitarian board.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 02:36:33 fec13d No.582096

>>582074

Daily reminder that Jay's Analysis is cancer.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 02:51:01 b388b7 No.582099

>>582096

Fr. Stephen Freeman is that you?

Daily reminder that Jay Dyer gets emails everyday from Orthodox monks, nuns, priests and even a metropolitan in support of his work.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 11:00:47 c01bfb No.582288

>>582079

Not in my bible. It says:

"There are three testifiers: the Spirit, water, and blood. And these three are one."

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 11:04:35 a87dbc No.582290

>>582288

See Matthew 28:19. The name of the God with whom the Christian is covenanting is given as "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 12:04:37 1d8563 No.582302

>>582288

1 John 5:7

>ὅτι τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ Πατήρ, ὁ Λόγος καὶ τὸ ῞Αγιον Πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι·

Get a new, authentic Bible ASAP because yours is lying to you. Unitarianism is unscriptural which is why groups like Jehovahs are notorious for rewriting the Bible to make it fit their theology.