/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

But Christianity is strictly monotheistic too.

>>576969

I think Islam and Judaism both rely heavily on ceremony and law. I know that both believe man is saved by his own good deeds, though Islam does believe in Grace while Judaism doesn't.

I think both are scrambling desperately for the truth and missing the mark. They both need to be saved and brought to Christ before it's too late.

christianity and islam are more similar because they both acknowledge jesus' divinity, even though islam's christology is absurdly heretical

islam just looks like judaism because it's based on larping as jews

>>576976

>Christianity is strictly monotheistic.

I believe he meant strictly non-Trinitarian.

>>576971

Christian monotheism is not absolute monotheism (Tawhid).

>>576980

Yeah but on the flipside Christians tend to lack the tribalism of Muslims that Jews are also known for.

Considering the history of the region I'd say Judaism was probably more influential. Also Muslims and Jews have stronger adherence to the original languages of their scripture. That's one thing I wish Christians had as well.

>>576984

I'm not sure about Jews, but Muslims definitely see themselves as a tribe. Some of the strictest punishments laid out in Qur'an and hadith are against a Muslim causing harm to another Muslim, regardless of affiliation. That's definitely something we don't have. A hardline conservative Christian declares a liberal hippie Christian as "non-Christian" and feels it's acceptable to hurt the liberal hippie.

In the Muslim world, no Muslim may declare another Muslim as "non-Muslim". Their word for it is "takfeer" and it is strongly against Muslim law. Even a misguided Muslim is still a Muslim and, thus, part of the tribe.

It would be nice if we could have that instead of all these flags and infighting and vitriol.

>>576988

I don't know but you should take note of following quote.

>"Me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world. And all of us against the infidel.”

Regarding Jews, their tribes are literally talked about throughout the Bible. Their lifestyles in the modern day don't necessarily reflect the customs of more conservative communities and those just a generation or so ago.

>>576969

Islam is a syncretic religion with Judaism, Orthodox Christianity, Gnosticism, and Meccan Paganism. It is similar to Judaism because it copied the ritualism of the Mosaic law without the wisdom. It keeps circumcision and the pork ban, without any explanation or reason underlying it. As for “strict monotheism,” Christianity is also strictly monotheistic. You’re conflating unitarianism with monotheism.

>>576992

What does it inherit from Orthodox Christianity, Gnosticism and Meccan Paganism?

>>576992

Islam's holy books are Torah, Psalms, Gospel, and Qur'an. Qur'an is the final testament and the clarification of man's corruption of the previous. If something in the Gospel, for example, contradicts Qur'an, then Qur'an is the authority.

Qur'an doesn't have to explain the reasons when the reasons were already given. Qur'an is the clarification of that which man corrupted for his own selfish desires.

t. Muslim

>>577001

>make a thread about Muslims

>don't expect Muslims to show up

Your meme isn't going to convert anyone. It is you who needs to learn the truth and come to God's perfect religion.

>>577002

So then in your opinion is Islam closer to Christianity or to Judaism?

>>577003

Much closer to Christianity. We believe in the oneness of God, the virgin birth and holiness of Mary, and the prophethood of Jesus(pbuh). Though we don't share the belief in his crucifixion, we do believe him to be the perfect man. He will return and fight alongside al-Mahdi (the Messiah), bringing peace to the world. We just don't know when that will happen, so we're always prepared.

>>577005

>>577007

Your memes aren't going to convert anyone. I am here as a guest. Is this how you treat your guests?

>>577008

>Is this how you treat your guests?

We are ought to love our guest.

To love is to wish and to act good upon someone.

There is no greater good than salvation.

Outside of Church there is no salvation.

Ergo, the best thing you can do to your guest is to lead them to Church.

>>577013

>the best thing you can do to your guest is to lead them to Church

And you do this through offensive memes? How's that workin' out for ya?

>>577016

>Are you the BO of the Muslim board?

No. He won't come here anymore.

>From my experience

There are nearly 2 billion of us. How limited your experience must be.

>>577019

>No. He won't come here anymore.

You must be the board vol, then? Why won't he come?

>How limited your experience must be.

I guess it depends on the region where you are from, but at least here in the west many Muslims are raised to know the very basics about Islam and do not know much about Muhammad. In order to convert Muslims, first we have to show them what type of ideology Islam is at its very core (starting with its leader), no?

>>577013

Precisely.

>>577017

They are interesting perhaps, but that quote isn't true at all. There is only one way to the Father – through Christ, the way, the truth, and the life.

>>577021

>Why won't he come?

Because last time he came he was treated like an enemy, unwelcomed, and had nothing but memes thrown in his face. He was treated no better than he would had he gone to /pol/. So he left, shook off the dust, and that's that.

>here in the west

I'm American. Born and raised.

>>577025

lol no. There are more than just 3 of us. The /islam/ board may be slow, but the discord is thriving as well as other groups we hang out in.

Thread's on autosage, boys. Wrap it up.

>>577023

>Because last time he came he was treated like an enemy, unwelcomed, and had nothing but memes thrown in his face.

Ah, sorry to hear about his experience. Although many of us experience similar behaviour from Muslims on the Muslim board, even on the "containment" thread. :P

>I'm American. Born and raised.

Like I said, most, but that doesn't mean all. The average Salafi will know about the nature of Muhammad, but you and I know that many Muslims are only culturally religious and have a panic attack about Islam when they see things like the verses above.

>>577029

>the average Salafi

Did you know Arabs make up less than 10% of the world's Muslims? Salafiyya are a weird bunch. I can't really think of a Christian equivalent. Do you have a super conservative, very loud group that you really wish would just shut the fuck up? That's the Salafi to us.

>>577015

>How's that workin' out for ya?

A heck of a lot better than all your suicide bombings.

>>577032

You sure about that? Even a botched suicide bombing makes international news and changes the entire security protocol of nations. What do your memes do?

>>577031

>Salafiyya are a weird bunch.

I noticed quite a few Salafis on the /islam/ board, so I assumed you were one of them, haha.

What school of thought do you belong to? I've always been fond of Shia Muslims, the ones I know IRL are always very nice.

>I can't really think of a Christian equivalent. Do you have a super conservative, very loud group that you really wish would just shut the fuck up? That's the Salafi to us.

Probably some groups of Evangelical Protestants, especially the ones from America (who also tend to be diehard Zionists). They tend to be very outspoken in their views and make the rest of us look bad.

>>577032

Suicide bombings make it so people are terrified of publicly insulting Muslims. When's the last time you saw anyone afraid of insulting Christians?

>>577035

>quite a few Salafis

Nah. There are only 2 that I know of and one is a Vol. The BO is Ibadi and there are some Shi'a, but the rest of us are pretty quiet for the most part on the board. Every time any of us says anything, the Salafi scream it down like rabid dogs - not much different than your Andersonites on this board.

>>577036

Christianity has always been a religion of peace and reason, why should we make it so that anyone is afraid of questioning Christians?

The difference is that if an individual if misinformed about Christianity, they can let those doubts be known and thus be corrected.

The same cannot be said about about an individual who has doubts about Islam and cannot let those doubts be known and corrected in fear for their safety.

just my two cents

>>577035

>What school of thought do you belong to?

Oh, forgot to answer that. I follow the Hanbali masjid.

>>577036

People should not be afraid of us. Suicide bombing is against Islam as is indiscriminate killing. I know ya'll will think I'm pulling some taqiyya, but we're not allowed to run around murdering or creating mischief in the land. We have very specific rules of engagement when it comes to war and one of those is "no women or children".

>>577037

>The BO is Ibadi

>Ibadi

wut

>>577037

>>577040

I don't know much about these schools of thought, so I will definitely have to research into them. As for me, I'm just a normal Roman Catholic (Latin rite) from Europe.

>not much different than your Andersonites on this board.

heh yeah I can definitely relate to your experience

>>577041

>taqiyya

Isn't that mostly a Shia thing, even then it's only supposed to be used in a life/death situation? When people use that against Muslims it always makes me chuckle.

Since we're on the subject, what's your opinion on ISIS, the way their enforce Sharia and its effects?

I've heard from some Muslims that their ideas have really backfired and make a lot of Muslims dislike the idea of a caliphate or even have made them turn from Islam. I'm not saying this is fact, just what I heard from Muslims and exMuslims online.

>>577034

>You sure about that? Even a botched suicide bombing makes international news and changes the entire security protocol of nations.

That only makes people despise Islam more. How does that do you any good?

>>577043

Ibadi are an ancient sect of Islam that predates the Sunni/Shi'a split. More philosophical in the approach to hadith instead of rigidly following the scholars but not esoteric like the Sufi. I guess, hmm, Eastern Orthodox would be the equivalent Christian sect? I don't know.

>>577044

>Isn't that mostly a Shia thing

It's something that's used when someone puts a gun to your head and demands you renounce Islam. If your life is in immediate danger, you can renounce Islam with your mouth but it won't count in your heart. However, Qur'an says "cover not the truth with falsehood" when it comes to religion so it can't be used to lie about Islam.

>ISIS

I really hope they go away soon, but I fear they'll just be replaced by someone else. The whole ME is a mess. It doesn't dissuade me from Islam because I don't see ISIS as Islamic. As soon as they killed those men by burning them in fire, they lost all credibility. Only God can punish with fire.

>>577050

>I guess, hmm, Eastern Orthodox would be the equivalent Christian sect? I don't know.

Catholics and Orthodox used to be one church until our split, so we are both apostolic churches and believe in sacraments and traditions (that many Protestants, which split from the Catholic Church, do not believe in). The "original church" will vary depending on who you ask, it'll be Catholicism if you ask a Catholic and Orthodoxy if you ask an Eastern Orthodox. There's a lot of other variables, but that's the basics of it.

>However, Qur'an says "cover not the truth with falsehood" when it comes to religion so it can't be used to lie about Islam.

Yeah, that's what I always assumed. It seems like an argument that /pol/ relies on when they are losing an argument.

>The whole ME is a mess.

Sadly, even when they lose all their territory, they will continue doing rogue attacks. Same as al-Qaeda and the others. When these groups go away, I wish the Muslims in the region would treat the Christian minority better, there's some countries where that's the case. For example, in my country (Poland) we have a Muslim minority and we've relatively always lived together in peace as Poles.

What's your opinion on the average Christians?

>>577052

If they could have as nice a conversation as we've had, many of the problems in the ME could be solved.

>average Christians

Well, being an American, I grew up around mostly Christians. I don't want to assume my personal experiences to be a true experience. Most of the Christians I've known are Lutheran or Methodist and they've all been very nice, open and welcoming people. As for Catholics, I'm afraid I've never personally met any (that I knew of anyway), but I like your Pope. He is what a religious leader should be: caring, forgiving, and unafraid - even in the face of those calling him a heretic. He is a man who can say, "We don't see eye to eye on all things, but God's mercy outweighs his wrath and we shall break bread together as brothers." That's powerful stuff.

>>577057

>If they could have as nice a conversation as we've had, many of the problems in the ME could be solved.

That's probably true. I feel like there's a lot of people (politicians) trying to pin Christians and Muslims against each other for their own gains.

>As for Catholics, I'm afraid I've never personally met any (that I knew of anyway)

Interesting, I bet you are from the south or midwest? I've been to the US south and I saw like a Baptist, Lutheran or Methodist church every 500 feet, lol. The converts from those regions to Catholicism (the ones I met online) are always devout and pious, it seems like a good region of the US to live in.

>religious leader should be: caring, forgiving, and unafraid - even in the face of those calling him a heretic

Yeah, he is definitely a pious pontiff. He was always one that preferred to be with people, even when he was a bishop and priest in the poorer areas of Argentina. He does a great job at exemplifying Christ.

I think the people that call him a heretic are misled, especially by the media. They take his homilies and teachings out of context to push their own agenda, Pope Francis has even warned us about that.

Are you a born Muslim?

>>576983

Islamic monotheism, or "tawhid", is not absolute monotheism.

>>576999

>Orthodox Christianity

Mosques are based on the design of Byzantine churches. The leadership have large beards styled after Orthodox Christians (this isn’t a superficial similarity, Muhammad commanded they have beards), imams have similar vestments to Orthodox monks, the command to recite the Quran is based on the Orthodox practice of reciting the psalms, there are also the things Islam has in common with all sects of Christianity like it’s prophets

>Gnosticism

The story that Jesus made clay pigeons as an infant and brought them to life comes from a gnostic Infancy Gospel. The belief that Jesus ascended into Heaven rather than be crucified comes from Gnosticism as well. Their view of the Holy Spirit as being an attribute or ability of God rather than a person with the fullness of the godhead is another gnostic view

>Meccan paganism

The practice of praying toward Mecca and the concept of the Kaaba as the House of God

>>577000

>Islam's holy books are Torah, Psalms, Gospel, and Qur'an

Islam believes the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels are corruptions of true holy books. They don’t believe the modern iteration of those books as found in a modern Bible to be the originals

>The sons of God saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose. (Genesis 6:2)

>The king says, “I will announce the Lord’s decree. He said to me: ‘You are my son! This very day I have become your father (Psalm 2:6)

>Do you say about the one whom the Father set apart and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? (John 10:36)

>They say, " Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him, (Quran 2:116)

>And both the Jews and the Christians say: ‘We are the children of Allaah and His loved ones.’ Say: ‘Why then does He punish you for your sins?’ Nay, you are but human beings of those He has created” (Quran 5:18)

>>577061

>(politicians)

>(((politicians)))