/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>genuine seekers who have fallen into false religions

usually, that means they chose falsely. so that's a grave sin.

>But still desire to know him and desire his help, and don't want to go to hell. etc

you have to go through the Son.

>>571027

what about this romans 2 verse

"He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking[a] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality."

>>571028

you cannot reach God, or be saved from hell without Jesus Christ

what the verse is telling you, is that without Christ you shall receive your judgement for your unpardonable sins; for sins are unpardonable without Jesus Christ

>>571029

so ppl who haven't heard of Jesus or who have misconceptions about him are just doomed?

Is this physical life the only chance they get to believe? Why can't the soul repent after physical death?

If they seek truth with true intent, then God helps them find it.

>846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

>847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

>>571033

>so ppl who haven't heard of Jesus

Going by the words of Scripture, after the Passion of Christ, this is impossible. We do not know how Providence decides this is so, but we do believe and take this for a fact. Personally, I believe those who have truly not been given the choice of Christ will receive this question at the moment of their death. It's not much harder to believe than believing that He rose again from the dead.

>or who have misconceptions about him are just doomed?

A conscious rejection of Jesus Christ is self-damning, yes. They are consequences in this world, because sin does exist.

>Is this physical life the only chance they get to believe?

Yes, and with possibly a slim chance (imo) at the moment of their death.

>Why can't the soul repent after physical death?

The human soul varies and wavers throughout its life until the moment of death, and the choice it makes as such is the choice it makes to its end. Are you redeemed or not redeemed? And have you received pardon for your sins or not?

Baptists answer this with OSAS, Catholics answer this with sacraments and the concept of purgatory. Others have their own teachings (orthodox, etc etc).

>>571028

Does that mean that pre-Christian peoples will also be saved, even though they never had a chance or choice to believe in God?

I always wondered why would God be so particular about one set of people and one geographical area and doom everyone else, even though they acted virtuously, unless Romans 2 is the answer.

>>571028

Well doing is a result of grace. It's entirely possible that people who had themselves no knowledge of God never the less strived and were assisted by Gods grace to honor the commandments that are known to everyone. While they would not be without all sin, they would at least be without the sin of unbelieving, since they believed so far as they were able. God may have mercy on them for the rest. For those who know the gospel this hope is greatly reduced or entirely removed.