/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Pope Francis has a point though. God is not the author of temptation. I believe there is a verse in scripture that says something like that.

>>569637

He's not wrong, you know.

In portuguese it is "E não nos deixeis cair em tentação", which can be translated as "And don't let us fall into temptation".

I think it has been like this since forever.

>>569637

The original text says εἰσενέγκῃς which means to lead or bring.

>>569644

Personally I like the translation that goes "bring us not into trial", which God most certainly does. He tests us, but doesn't lead us to temptation.

I raised this exact issue with this line in a thread about praying (or maybe it was about the lord's prayer specifically I don't remember) a few weeks ago, and after some deliberation assumed that it was required to be read in conjunction with/juxtaposed to but deliver us from evil. Read this way, I assumed it was a poetic (if that's the right word) of making clear that no, God never (has or ever will) leads us into temptation, and that yes, God does deliver us from evil. I assumed it had to be read this way rather than my autistic questioning, and that it actually says lead us not into temptation for a reason, as opposed to being poorly translated..I would still rather be an autist ignoramus questioning the wrong things for the wrong reasons than it turn out that the Lord's prayer has been poorly translated this whole time. Anyone fluent in koine greek want to expound on the way the manuscript syntax is constructed?

>>569637

It varies within the Catholic Church by language already

>>569650

>I assumed it was a poetic (if that's the right word) of making clear that no, God never (has or ever will) leads us into temptation, and that yes, God does deliver us from evil

So I've always thought, but there is indeed some ambiguity.

>>569639

The original version doesn't say that God is the author of temptation. It only says that temptations are there, and asks for God not to guide someone's life so that the person would encounter the temptations.

>>569651

If the differences are meaningful, it means that some are saying the prayer wrong, or at least not in the way originally conceptualized by Jesus. Francis is saying that the differences are doctrinally meaningful and that large portions of the church have been wrong all this time. However in the context of what >>569646 says, Francis is saying that the Bible is wrong in the original Greek and that he knows God better than Jesus.

>>569665

>and that he knows God better than Jesus.

Jesus didn't write the Bible, friend.

>>569637

Asking God to "lead us not into temptation" is praying a certainty, in a way we are affirming, and praising the fact that God will do this.

Why doesn't he think twice about praying "Thy kingdom come" if it is certain that this will happen without his praying?

>>569670

The Lord's prayer is only mentioned by 2 apostles and they both word it differently.

he's a fukkin protestant if he changes the lord's prayer tbh

>>569682

implying prayers havent been reworded every other decade since forever.

there is no literal translation to english or german from the greek manuscript, the french edit pope francis advocates is literally as correct or incorrect as the one currently used.

>>569668

Those are the words of Jesus as recorded in The Bible. Are you saying The Bible didn’t adequately record the words of Jesus?

>>569682

Except protestants have a higher regard of the scripture.

>>569684

Hello post-modernism, I was wondering when you would show up.

>>569686

that just had to come from one of you did it ?

language is not that simple dude, and the kjv isnt some magical ultimate compilation of linguistic perfection.

>>569690

Great response to your hallucination of what I said. If I had said that the KJV was a compilation of linguistic perfection, or even if I said anything about language and linguistics, that would have been a good response. Of course, that’s not what I said. What I did was ask whether you believed The Bible adequately contained the words of Jesus, or if you believed it to be in error. So your response actually showed a pants-on-head disconnect with the world. Good try though

>>569684

>translations are all the same

>The Message is as valid as The Latin Vulgate

>The Cotton Patch Bible is as valid as The Luther Bible

>The Queen James Bible is as valid as The King James Bible

Rethink your stance

>>569704

Our Father in heaven,

Reveal who you are.

Set the world right;

Do what’s best—

as above, so below.

Keep us alive with three square meals.

Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.

Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.

You’re in charge!

You can do anything you want!

You’re ablaze in beauty!

Yes! Yes! Yes!

>>569708

>Reveal who you are.

*destroys universe*

>even heaven

nothing better than some destruction, they say.

>>569733

>"do whats best" is the same as "do what thou wilt"

you're joking, right ?

>>569637

Hopefully he'll change it to The Message version.

>>569741

I think they just posted the wrong pic, cause “As Above So Below” is a common Satanic/occultic phrase, and it’s weird to put it in a Bible

Hawai'i Pidgin Bible:

‘God, you our Fadda.

You stay inside da sky.

We like all da peopo know fo shua how you stay,

An dat you stay good an spesho,

An we like dem give you plenny respeck.

10We like you come King fo everybody now.

We like everybody make jalike you like,

Ova hea inside da world,

Jalike da angel guys up inside da sky make jalike you like.

11Give us da food we need fo every day.

12Hemo our shame, an let us go

Fo all da kine bad stuff we do to you,

Jalike us guys let da odda guys go awready,

An we no stay huhu wit dem

Fo all da kine bad stuff dey do to us.

13No let us get chance fo do bad kine stuff,

But take us outa dea, so da Bad Guy no can hurt us.

[Cuz you our King,

You get da real power,

An you stay awesome foeva.

Dass it!]’

>>569637

in spanish is the same.

>>569644

>>569784

meant for

Big deal.

The Romanian Church did something similar.

Anglicans too, as i recall.

>>569741

Consider which "god" this translator is praying to. It's not a stretch at all.

>>569645

>FJ

cringe.

Our gender neutral non-denominalised entity,

Who is wherever people might believe,

Give us today our daily gluten free vegan kosher halal cereal based food,

And accept and celebrate our degenerate behaviour

as we accept and celebrate others degenerate behaviours.

Let tens of millions of savages invade our continents,

And destroy our civilisations.

Remind us often that we should bow to islam,

and not complain when they kill us with trucks, knives, bombs, guns.

Anon.

Who created the tree of the fruit of knowledge again?

>>569637

Fugdammit. When I raise this thread, it gets two replies. Someone else raises it, over 9,000

>>569639

>when tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me," for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone

James is great

>>569665

this guy seems right, though

>>569637

>unchanging apostolic Catholic Church

There's nothing wrong with changing modern translations; he didn't say that the original greek text is incorrect, pal.

>>570963

But he did say the vulgate is wrong. He also said muslims worship with catholics the "same merciful God". If the sede was vacant other times in the past, why is It impossible to be vacant now?

>>569773

its a meme paraphrase from the corpus hermeticum, putting the principle of correspondence (between microcosm and macrocosm) in an easy to digest tidbit