Depictions of God the Father?

Email
Comment *
File	Select/drop/paste files here
* = required field	[▶ Show post options & limits] Confused? See the FAQ.

Flag
Embed	(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options	Do not bump (you can also write sage in the email field) Spoiler images (this replaces the thumbnails of your images with question marks)
Password	(For file and post deletion.)
Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf Max filesize is 16 MB. Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000. You may upload 5 per post.

File: 64df11d287d438c⋯.jpeg (560.3 KB, 1200x862, 600:431, 4D3C3E97-1B4D-4F4A-BFFF-C….jpeg)

File: 88a08a22b7859f9⋯.jpeg (316.62 KB, 1695x1121, 1695:1121, FE9B7497-CBFE-4E35-BB42-E….jpeg)

Depictions of God the Father? Christanon 12/05/17 (Tue) 16:57:40 e588f1 No.568455

I took a trip in Russia last year, and one of things I did was visit a bunch of churches. Orthodox churches all have depictions of Jesus Christ in a circle (generally) on the ceiling, called a pantocrator. A ton of the Russian churches I visited had both a normal pantocrator, as well as an additional depiction of God the Father in a second circle or image. What’s the deal? I thought Cathodox were all against depictions of God the Father. When I thought about it, I realized that I’m addition to numerous Orthodox churches depicting the Father, one of the most famous chapels in the world has a painting of God the Father on its ceiling. What gives?

Christanon 12/05/17 (Tue) 17:09:45 df9bb1 No.568460

File: d5310ae97aa5a15⋯.jpg (214.43 KB, 584x730, 4:5, trinity icon 2.jpg)

File: 991095c0ee91b41⋯.jpg (1.5 MB, 2249x3141, 2249:3141, trinity icon.jpg)

Not canonical iconography, and an unfortunate result of the Western captivity of the Russian Church from the 17th to the 19th centuries.

The early Christians would represent an elderly Jesus as the Ancient of Days to focus on His divinity, and so implying the Father, but canonically, the Father Himself cannot be portrayed.

These portrayals of the Father are generally swept under the rug in Orthodoxy - it's recognized that they're not canonical, and so improper for veneration, but also they are a part of the religious and cultural heritage.

See pic related for more noncanonical "icons" of the Father (although the one with the Trinity on the throne actually uses an elderly Jesus to "imagine" the Father - see the Jesus halo).

Christanon 12/05/17 (Tue) 17:10:29 df9bb1 No.568461

>>568455

>>568460

I can't tell you why portraying the Father became accepted in the West though - I'll let a Catholic answer that.

Christanon 12/05/17 (Tue) 17:40:13 e9a4cb No.568462

Yeah no one has ever even seen God the Father. And no one alive right now knows what Jesus looked like so stop making paintings if him, but literally no one ever has seen the Father.

Christanon 12/05/17 (Tue) 17:40:32 e9a4cb No.568464

>>568462

Besides Moses saw his back for like half a second

Christanon 12/05/17 (Tue) 18:04:55 ab819c No.568469

>>568464

I thought that was a nearby mountain.

Christanon 12/05/17 (Tue) 19:12:01 9a827b No.568488

>>568461

Basically:

>Who have seen Me, saw the Father

>Holy Spirit, though never incarnated, appeared visibly even though he is spirit, like Father

>It's tradition of religious art

And I presume that clergy who apporved it thought that faith of west is sound and developed, so faithful will never think about incorrect and heretical interpretation. And it was but SOMONE had to fuck up.

>>568462

But we know how he looked like. We have his shroud

Christanon 12/05/17 (Tue) 20:39:11 df9bb1 No.568521

>>568488

But the Father never revealed Himself in His person. The Holy Spirit has taken several forms for particular scenes (a dove, tongues of fire, etc) but never became hypostatically incarnate either.

The main argument against the iconoclasts was that we depict what was revealed to us in the Incarnation.

Christanon 12/05/17 (Tue) 22:06:51 9a827b No.568572

>>568521

>But the Father never revealed Himself in His person

People heard his voice. And if you can use one sense to depict undepictable you may use others too. That's why all of five senses are used in churches. Plus, I believe it was Damascene who said that all who hear Word of God paint icons in his mind. And Bible says that God the Father for exemple sees with eyes or have wings. Not that he have them but is depicted by such. Not to mention beatific vision being a thing

>The Holy Spirit has taken several forms for particular scenes (a dove, tongues of fire, etc) but never became hypostatically incarnate either.

And yet He is depicted.

>The main argument against the iconoclasts was that we depict what was revealed to us in the Incarnation.

And Christ incarnated said to Philip "he that seeth me, seeth the Father also". Not that Father incarnate but same divinity that Son have, He have also. And we depict this divinity.

Christanon 12/06/17 (Wed) 06:38:06 0cc0dc No.568798

>>568572

>People heard his voice. And if you can use one sense to depict undepictable you may use others too.

Wait, Catholics seriously believe that God has a material form and can be heard with the ears and seen with the eyes? I'm 100% certain you worded this in a very clumsy way. Pretty sure you guys aren't Mormons.

It is with the Spirit that God is heard and seen, but what has been revealed in the Scriptures were His voice, His "back," and His "hand." This is why it is acceptable, and was also done in 3rd century Judaism, to depict God the Father as a hand.

And of course, we cannot forget that His presence has been revealed as well - Jesus Christ.

But God the Father Himself is not corporeal.

>And yet He is depicted.

The Holy Spirit is depicted in certain scenes if He took a certain form during that scene (such as a dove for icons of the Baptism in the Jordan) but otherwise He cannot be depicted either.

>And Christ incarnated said to Philip "he that seeth me, seeth the Father also". Not that Father incarnate but same divinity that Son have, He have also. And we depict this divinity.

That is why our icon of the New Testament Trinity is Jesus Christ Himself. Where was the Father given a full corporeal apparition as a bearded old guy?