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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: de0fc13adcf4a10⋯.png (292.06 KB, 754x424, 377:212, burptist man.png)

049df7 No.558337

Assume a legit "sola fide" + "OSAS" Protestant who converts, has a spiritual awakening and leads a decent life for about 10 years. He believes with total conviction that he has his "ticket to heaven" and can't lose it, plus his behavior is in line with biblical christianity, he goes "Soul Winning" and even converts many, etc. Then one day he *snaps* does something horrible, shoots up a church, serial rape spree, goes to raves on drugs and fornicates with women, says evolution makes sense, grows his hair long, forces his girlfriends to get abortions, etc….

He gets away with his crimes, but he has enough self-awareness to critique himself and say "I must have not actually been saved" ala 1 John 2:19…So his last 10 years of "OSAS sola fide" were a sort of self-delusion, and get nullified.

My question is, assuming he wants to revert and heal himself, how can he ever be confident in his own salvation by faith, [once and for all]? How can he trust his subjective conviction of faith, if it can be retroactively destroyed by his future behaviors?

Does this make sense?

8f3964 No.558340

>>558337

If he is of the elect it matters not.


049df7 No.558344

>>558340

how would he know? Is the question.


2d3f84 No.558353

This is an artificial situation. Nobody just "snaps" like that without some signs, even if they are internal.


a39abd No.558370

File: 8a3b34efa162704⋯.jpg (34.95 KB, 820x581, 820:581, no idea.jpg)

>>558337

>leads a decent life for about 10 years

>forces his girlfriends to get abortions


9ad4c8 No.558378

File: 65bbf4e991960b0⋯.jpg (106.93 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 54f32835f4b27f9fdf38837b41….jpg)

>>558337

>leads a decent life for about 10 years

>says evolution makes sense

lel


45a2f4 No.558432

>My question is, assuming he wants to revert and heal himself, how can he ever be confident in his own salvation by faith, [once and for all]?

He can't, except for faith in and of itself. The Sacrament of Penance would give him the confidence boost he's looking for, as well as the grace, but he would have to convert to Catholicism.


12f0cc No.558523

File: 8be55590c1a6ce9⋯.jpg (35.65 KB, 346x406, 173:203, Bispo risadeiro.jpg)

>says evolution makes sense, grows his hair long

I Loled.


8dc9b3 No.558527

>>558337

>My question is, assuming he wants to revert and heal himself, how can he ever be confident in his own salvation by faith

No christian can know for sure if the are saved or part of the elect. All you can do is keep fighting in the race of faith. Someone who is truly saved may backslide but he always comes back to the fold, just look at the parable of the lost son or sheep.


b9ce54 No.558582

>>558337

>Assume a legit "sola fide" + "OSAS" Protestant who converts, has a spiritual awakening and leads a decent life for about 10 years. He believes with total conviction that he has his "ticket to heaven" and can't lose it, plus his behavior is in line with biblical christianity, he goes "Soul Winning" and even converts many, etc.

You never said whether he actually has faith or not though. You never said why he believes this. You had one job, now this thread is another lost soul wandering in oblivion, a raging waves of the sea, foaming out its own shame; a wandering star, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.


b2b5be No.558594

>>558337

<Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

The immediate experience of faith is sufficient to have assurance that I am now a child of God. It does not matter if I deluded myself in times past, because genuine God given faith is self authenticating now.

<Romans 1:17 "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

To live by faith is not to always fret over whether I had faith yesterday, but it is to right now rest on Jesus Christ as my righteousness. I believe that when a person is truly converted in heart they will know at what time it happened, but faith doesn't stop simply because "I've done that already." As long as I have faith today, I know that I am saved, and that Christ will keep His own.


b3ca71 No.558766

>>558594

>I feel im saved so I am

Easy. Guess the Gate was wide all along.


b2b5be No.559125

>>558766

>I feel im saved so I am

It's not just a feeling that a person has, but is instead the immediate act of trusting in Christ for your salvation.


ea5eaa No.559127

>>559125

Yes, we heard you the first time


80fedf No.559261

>Then one day he *snaps* does something horrible, shoots up a church, serial rape spree, goes to raves on drugs and fornicates with women, says evolution makes sense, grows his hair long, forces his girlfriends to get abortions, etc….

this doesn't happen


f5caf8 No.559304

>>559261

What about people who are thought to be saved and then "snap" one day and become modalists? Lol


0e4dd4 No.559442

>>558582

recent convert perhaps?


7afd3b No.559450

File: d568454b30639a1⋯.jpg (1.11 MB, 3000x4000, 3:4, saint-gondola-icon.jpg)

>>558337

>Then one day he *snaps* does something horrible

One thing that's horrible or all those things?

>decent life

>So his last 10 years of "OSAS sola fide" were a sort of self-delusion, and get nullified.

Works will not save a man.

That said, nor does a burst of sin nullify the seal of the Holy Spirit.

You're asking questions only God can answer for only God knows the heart of a man. Furthermore, what man looks at in a specific time, God sees over the entirety of a life. Does God judge St. Gondola unrighteous because at the moment of his death he swore? I'm going to ignore some's obsession with "grades" of sin. Or does God judge a man righteous because at the moment of his death he condescended reluctantly to convert? Only God can know, only God can judge.

What we can say is that:

1. Sin is bad, m'kay. A righteous man does not go about sinning.

2. And yet, we ALL sin, every last one, even willingly, and it does not negate the salvation we have been blessed to receive.

In all things of life here, this tension exists.

It would be easy to think of our salvation as being like an electron cloud, or Schroedinger's box of cats-and-poisons. But, I think we can be more sure than this:

3. A Good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.

Furthermore:

4. God disciplines his children. No one who is of God can escape this, nor should want to. After all, Isaac God loved, but Esau He hated, and this is evident in their documented lives.

To be perfectly honest, I take GREAT comfort in the non-self-inflicted trials and tribulations I have suffered in this life. Because through them I can hear God say, "Son, come on, you can do better than this!"

But, as to your question, OP, I will say this: Read 1John. The whole book/letter is written purely:

< …so that you* may know that you have eternal life.

* you who believe in the name of the Son of God


6cf98d No.559452

>>559261

>You can't renounce Christ


7afd3b No.559454

>>558766

< Matthew 23:13

< "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.


7afd3b No.561330

>>559454

>Now I am become Death, the destroyer of threads


fcc36f No.567873

>>559127

Someone seems mad.


b2a772 No.567883

>>559452

Not true believers


976a9a No.567884

Nah, he doesn't lose his salvation since God promised him eternal life. If he believes then he believes.


42f412 No.567890

>>558337

Who is this person? The problem with this question is they it’s a completely fictional scenario


cdd195 No.567934

question to baptists:should funds be used to fight material poverty or merely to preach??

is it ok for the man to live in the ghetto if hes already saved

>t.influenced by liberation theology


a889cd No.568011

>>558582

It literally doesn't matter. He believes, that's all you need to know.

Belief is belief, and according to you morons it alone saves. Think for a moment about how fucking stupid that is. An arbitrary mental state is what God will use to filter people into the eternal? How fucking dumb you are to really believe this and have the nerve to call yourself a Christian.

Go get your own board and stop polluting this one.

(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST)

b2a772 No.568014

>>568011

We don't believe faith is a mental state


19f734 No.568181

>>568011

Only God knows what a man truly believes or doesn’t believe we cant sit here and speculate on a fictional person in an arbitrary scenario that you have created and tell you if that person is saved or not. Here Ill create a scenario too, what if I had a friend named Jim and monkeys flew out of his ass, do you think the church would declare him a saint?


96d666 No.568201

>>558340

That's Calvinism.


b9ce54 No.568207

>>568014

He's boxing with strawmen.


f4de9d No.568227

>>558337

Know them by their fruits also applies to self reflection. Only way you know your faith is genuine is if it produces many good works and minimizes your tendency to sin close to zero.


b2a772 No.568231

>>568227

Very, very wrong. Read Luther


44c932 No.578145

>>568011

its nearly impossible to put full faith in something you cant see or touch or hear, that is why its so important, im guessing 95% of christians would deny the faith if a gun were held to their head




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