/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

stop with the bait threads

Doctrinally? A lot. To name a few of the major points of contention: mode of salvation (especially faith vs works), infallibility and authority/role of the Pope, Church councils, and Scripture, the nature of the Sacraments, Apostolic Succession, and veneration of the saints (especially Mary).

Phenotypically? They should all look the same in their good works and separation from the world.

>>554143

>>554144

How is this bait?

>>554150

The video wont load. Care to send link?

Many thanks.

>>554150

Nevermind, found it.

Protestants follow God and the Bible.

Cathlodox follow man and their man made traditions.

Catholics follow Christ utilizing Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium.

Protestants have themselves and their pastors, and they all share common beliefs they pass around like memes, stuff like "KJV alone is the word of God and has supremacy over the greek manuscripts" and other stuff.

>>554261

First, Sola Scriptura is a man-made tradition.

Second, Divine Revelation given during the New Testament times is Divine regardless of whether it's included in the Bible or not.

Rather than dividing Christendom in "Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant," I'll rather divide it in "Western Protestant, Western Apostolic, Eastern Apostolic." Note that by "Apostolic" I mean here that Holy Tradition plays a major role in the faith.

But first, let me define the various Eucharistic theologies:

- Transubstantiation: The bread and wine become substantially the Body and Blood of Jesus, that is, the Eucharist.

- Consubstantiation: The Eucharist is substantially bread and wine, and also substantially the Body and Blood of Jesus.

- Spiritual presence: The Euchairst is bread and wine, but Jesus's Body and Blood are spiritually present within.

- Mystery: The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus. It's also bread and wine to the touch. I ain't gotta explain everything.

- Memoralism: The Eucharist is not the Body and Blood of Jesus, but is eaten to remind us of His sacrifice.

With that out of the way…

WESTERN PROTESTANT: Notably defined by belief in the following: We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, as proclaimed in the Scriptures alone, to the glory of God alone. Another common point of identity is the rejection of there being a real sacramental priesthood within the Church, a distinction between the bishops, as successors of the apostles, and laymen. Also note that these denominations are not strictly separated - indeed, many are one and the same in some countries, and besides, as long as they follow the notion above, they all recognize each other as being in Eucharistic communion.

- Lutheranism: A "default" position so to speak, focused on the five solae (salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, etc). Eucharistic belief is that of consubstantiation.

- Calvinism: Focused on the principles of TULIP, that is, human nature is Totally depraved, the saved are Unconditionally elected by God, Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was a Limited atonement (that is, only for the elect), the elect are saved by an Irresistible grace, and are given the Perseverance of the saints (that is, you cannot lose your salvation, only temporarily stray away from it, and if you end up not being saved, you were never actually saved to beign with). Eucharistic belief is that of spiritual presence.

- Baptists: Focused on a system of independant local Churches, there are no real sacraments (Baptism and Communion are purely symbolic, an outward expression of faith that only express what has already happened spiritually). They reject the baptism of children (and of those who cannot reasonably confess a profession of faith overall). Eucharistic belief is that of spiritual presence or of memoralism.

- Anabaptism: Like the Baptists, they reject the baptism of those who cannot reasonably confess a profession of faith, but they also believe in salvation by faith and works (rather than by faith alone), making them an outlier in Protestantism. Nowadays, the main branch of Anabaptism left are the Amish, who absolutely avoid technology and reject entirely involvement in politics or in warfare. Eucharistic belief is that of memoralism.

- Pentecostalism: Focused on the notion of spiritual gifts. There are three baptisms: baptism in water (a mere symbol of faith), baptism in the Body of Christ (which happens when one confesses their faith in Jesus), and baptism in the Holy Spirit (which happens when one has fully given oneself over to God). Baptism in the Holy Spirit confers holy gifts, the most notable of which is speaking in tongues, and it is a proof of one's salvation. Eucharistic view is that it is a mystery.

- Seventh-Day Adventism: Focused on an interpretation of the Scriptures following Ellen G. White's prophecy and exegesis. Most notably, they follow several of the commandments of the Law of Moses (like the Sabbath), and they come together on Saturdays rather than Sundays. Eucharistic belief is that of memoralism.

Other notable denominations:

- Oneness Pentecostalism (like Pentecostals but more cultish and also they're modern-day Arians)

- Messianic Judaism (Jews who become Evangelicals, or Evangelicals who roleplay as Jews, depending of who you ask)

- Quakers (all over the place)

- The Salvation Army (cool guys)

- Non-denominational (closeted Baptists usually)

cont…

>>554276

WESTERN APOSTOLIC: Notably defined by belief that the Bible is not above holy tradition, but part of it, and so the scriptures are not sufficient for Christianity, as tradition is necessary to interpret them correctly.

- Roman Catholicism: The Pope is the main successor of Peter and so he is to be the sole head of the episcopacy of the Church. We are saved by faith and works, and we cooperate with God's grace to be saved. The 21 ecumenical councils are authoritative, as well as all declarations made by the Pope when intending to teach dogma, and also the conclusion of the Universal Magisterium (what is believed everywhere, always, by all). Some beliefs that make it stand apart from Eastern Christianity: Purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, the use of unleavened bread for the Eucharist, the use of statues for prayers, the focus on Augustine and on Thomas Aquinas, and the use of Latin as the liturgical language. Its traditional Bible translation is the Vulgate. Eucharistic belief is that of transubstantiation.

- Anglicanism: Although the Bible and holy tradition are both authoritative, human reason is given similar authority. As such, ordination of women, and marriage of homosexuals, have become practices of the Anglican Church. The Anglican Church can be said to stand somewhere between Catholicism and Protestantism, in that it believes in salvation by faith alone but views on the degree to which we cooperate with God's grace for our salvation differ, and the Bible is not put above and separately from holy tradition but the books called deuterocanonical by the Catholic Church are called apocryphal by the Anglican Church. The Anglican Church technically does not believe that there is a sacramental priesthood within the Church, but again, views actually vary a lot. The first 4 ecumenical councils are authoritative. An aspect of Anglican theology is the branch theory - the belief that the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglican Churches are three branches of one and the same Church. The traditional Bible translation of the Anglican Church is the KJV. Eucharistic belief is that of consubstantiation, or spiritual presence, or that it is a mystery, but transubstantiation in particular is rejected.

- Methodism: While Catholicism's authority is in the Bible and holy tradition, and Anglicanism's authority is in the Bible, holy tradition, and reason, Methodism's authority is in the Bible, holy tradition, reason, and experience. Methodists believe in salvation by faith and works, and in our cooperation with God's grace for our salvation. Methodists do not believe that there is a sacramental priesthood within the Church, so women can be ordained as bishops or priests, laypeople can consecrate the Eucharist, and the Eucharist can be given even to those who are not baptized yet. Eucharist belief is that it is a mystery.

cont…

>>554282

I forgot to note: unlike Protestants, Roman Catholics practice closed communion - only those who are in communion with Rome and who are in good standing with the Church can receive the Eucharist.

Anglican practices vary - some only allow Anglicans, Catholics, and Orthodox to receive the Eucharist, while some allow all baptized Christians to receive the Eucharist, as long as they are in good standing with the teachings of Christianity.

>>554143

>Differences between all types of christians

It's easy anon, catholics are the One True Church™ and all others, especially protestants, are literally satanists.

>>554291

Nice false-flag, baptistanon.

>>554282

EASTERN APOSTOLIC: Notably defined by belief that the Bible is not above holy tradition, but part of it, and so the scriptures are not sufficient for Christianity, as tradition is necessary to interpret them correctly. While "Western Apostolicity" is based on Latin and Western European tradition, "Eastern Apostolicity" is based on Eastern European and Middle-Eastern tradition.

- Eastern Orthodoxy: There is a sacramental priesthood within the Church, but all bishops are equal in stature. We are saved by faith and works, and we cooperate with God's grace to be saved. The first 7 ecumenical councils are authoritative, as well as the Fourth Council of Constantinople (879) and the Fifth Council of Constantinople (1341). Like Catholics, we also and principally believe what is believed everywhere, always, by all. Some beliefs that make it stand apart from Roman Catholicism: the essence-energy distinction, Heaven and Hell only being foretastes of the judgment that will come at the Second Advent, the belief that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone (rather than from the Father and the Son), the insistance that only leavened bread can be used for the Eucharist, the exclusive use of icons for prayers, the focus on John Chrysostom and on Gregory Palamas, and the uses of Old Greek, Old Georgian, and Church Slavonic as liturgical languages. Its traditional Bible is the original, in Koine Greek. Only Eastern Orthodox who are in good standing with the Church can have communion. Eucharistic belief is that of transubstantiation, or that it is a mystery.

- Oriental Orthodoxy: Similar to the above, but while the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics broke away from one another in the 11th century over the issues of the procession of the Holy Spirit and of the authority of the Pope, the Oriental Orthodox broke away from them much earlier, in the 5th century, over a Christological issue. While virtually most Christians believe that Jesus has two natures - human and divine - united in one person, the Oriental Orthodox believe that Jesus has one human-divine nature. The first 3 ecumenical councils are authoritative, and two of the most important Church writers are Cyril of Alexandria and Pope Dioscorus. Also, most use leavened bread for the Eucharist, but the Armenians use unleavened bread. Their liturgical languages are Coptic, Ge'ez, Old Armenian, and Syriac. Only Oriental Orthodox in good standing with the Church can receive the Eucharist. Eucharistic belief is that of transubstantiation, or that it is a mystery.

- Assyrian Church of the East: They broke away from the rest even earlier than the Oriental Orthodox did, although still in the 5th century, over a Christological dispute. They used to believe that Jesus has two persons (the divine Word and the human Christ) united under one facade, but their Christology came to develop to be more in line with ours; however, they still look up to Nestorius's theology and venerate him as a saint. The first 2 ecumenical councils are authoritative. Their traditional Bible translation is the Peshitta. Also, two notable things: first, they do not use icons or statues, but do not find them objectionable either; and second, they allow any baptized Christian to receive the Eucharist. Eucharistic belief is that of transubstantiation, or that it is a mystery.

cont…

>>554310

- Eastern Catholicism: Although they are in full communion with Roman Catholicism, I put them here for two reasons: first, they are of distinctly Eastern tradition, and second, many of the Eastern Catholic Churches were originally part of one of the Eastern Churches above. While they are allowed to retain their believes, they must also at least not anathematize Roman Catholic doctrines, and they technically believe everything that Roman Catholics do even if it is expressed in a different manner. In reality, it is much more complicated - Melkites in particular are unashamed to denounce certain Catholic doctrines as false, and consider themselves simply Orthodox in communion with Rome. Because the relationship between Eastern Catholics and Eastern (and Oriental) Orthodox is tense (due to the methods used by the Roman Church to convert them to Catholicism to begin with), only time will tell what will happen to them.

With all of this out of the way, let me add a few things…

- I forgot to list the Moravian Church in the "Western Protestant" section. While not a major player today, they are one of the oldest Protestant Churches. Notable is their belief that God guides all Christian churches in a way only He knows, and so there is no incentive to convert anybody away from the Christian confession of faith they already belong to.

- The Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox are divided into several Churches that have autonomy of administration to one degree or another. While it's a bit complicated for the Catholic communion, I can at least tell you which Churches are under the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox communions:

Eastern Orthodox:

- Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople

- Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria and all Africa

- Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch

- Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem

- Russian Orthodox Church

- Serbian Orthodox Church

- Bulgarian Orthodox Church

- Romanian Orthodox Church

- Georgian Orthodox Church

- Church of Greece

- Church of Cyprus

- Orthodox Church of Albania

- Orthodox Church in America

- Orthodox Church of the Czech lands and Slovakia

- Orthodox Church of Poland

Oriental Orthodox Church:

- Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria

- Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church

- Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church

- Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch

- Armenian Apostolic Church

- Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church

- There are denominations that broke away from mainline Churches over politics or traditionalism… For instance, the Society of Saint Pius X which is in schism with the Roman Catholic Church, or the True Orthodox Church which is in schism with the Eastern Orthodox Church, or also, the Ethiopian Holy Synod in Exile with the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church. I can't cover all of them.

- There are also schisms that are on the way to healing… The Eastern Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox schism is quickly on its way to being solved, and so is the Roman Catholic/Church of the East schism. I can't tell you what things will look like in 50 years.

- I did not go into details at all, and paid disservice to nearly every tradition I listed, including mine. There's only so much I can do on an 8chan thread. You can do your own research to elaborate.

As an addenum, here are some faiths that started as heresies:

- Judaism (notably Orthodox Judaism)

- Gnosticism

- Islam

- Mormonism

- Jehova's Witnesses

- Rastafarianism

>>554296

The thing is, the truths contained in the Apostolic Tradition have been revealed to us by God, not created by man.