/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Are you this poster >>536639 ? My Bibically based answer depends on such.

>>536650

I am not that poster, no.

>>536651

Give me a breif description of your biological father's life. What denomination (if any) was he? What were some of his exact words on the subjet of the Bible or things pertaining to God?

>>536651

Also what version is the bible he had?

>>536652

>my biological father

My biological father is not in question here, my great grandfather is, but okay. My father attends an evangelical church regularly.

The bible of my great grandfather is just a standard NIV Bible I think.

>>536654

Ok have a curveball answer then. Your father was a man, a human, and therefore a beast in accordance with ecclesasties 3:18-21. He seems to have shown no sign of wanting to actually come to the knowledge of the truth because he used a corrupted version hebrews 4:12, titus 1:2, 1 samuel 17:51, and 2 samuel 21:19.

>he was a pastor

Unless he mentioned how the tithe becoming the collections of 1 corinthians 16:1 and the many verses of acts that mention nothing of a tithe, then he is a larper. Not to shit on his grave or anything. But being involved with "prison ministry" could very well be codeword for kikery.

>I wear a cross now and listen to and read Christian stuff all the time but I feel in the back of my mind I'm just a LARPer

You are a larper, unless you start reading the Bible and you simply start believing. Wearing and reading (((christian stuff))) doesn't mean shit if you aren't serving God and his Son as it says in His word, the Bible.

The TLDR is this; he was human and died. Having not the 1 corinthians 15:38,44 he simply is dead. Not in hell or heaven, just dead like any other animal/beast ecclesasties 3:18-21. All KJV only btw.

>>536649

>Is my great grandfather going to hell?

He most likely is NOT going to hell. But no one here can give you the answer you're looking for because only God knows the heart.

Jeremiah 17:9-10 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

>I feel in the back of my mind I'm just a LARPer.

Try reading this:

https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-47-terrible-words-loving-savior-john-821-29

>>536649

>Most prots will say yes

Why would prots say he's going to hell? From what you wrote, he seems like a good protestant.

Is there hope? There's almost always hope. It depends on a number of factors and ultimately God's mercy so I cannot give you a definite answer, or even answer that is likely to be true.

I consider most protestants to be on their way to hell don't ban pls, it's not like I want them to go there and if nothing special happens, your great grandfather will probably go there as well. But I don't know how God judges people, so it might be the case that He'll appreciate the fact that he brought those prisoners closer to Christ, even if not to the full communion with Him.

>>536649

Only God knows. I would say he's in heaven, but I think we'll all be surprised by who is (and isn't) in heaven when we get there.

>>536662

>I consider most Protestants on their way to hell

Interesting. Even sacramentalist ones who believe in Real Presence (such as confessional Lutherans)? I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm curious. Would someone like J.S. Bach be in hell?

He sounds like a good man that lived a life leading others to God. It sounds like he did the best he could as a prot.

Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I would say he's safe.

>>536657

>Heresy

OP would do well not to listen to you, all men have souls.

As for OP, I would believe he is in heaven if he persevered in his faith to the end (and i am a protestant). And what comes to your belief, as long as you can't believe Christ is the Lord, God, then that's no christianity. Ask yourself if you do, and see if the Holy Spirit is at work in your life.

>>536681

>all men have souls.

Indeed all living things wherein the breath of life is Genesis 5:17 have a soul Revelation 16:3.

Hence 1 corinthians 15:44 and 1 thesselonians 5:23 showcases the spirit body as seperate from the flesh and the soul.

Did I ever suggest all flesh not having a soul?

>>536671

>Even sacramentalist ones who believe in Real Presence (such as confessional Lutherans)?

I'm not sure if CC does recognize lutheran apostolic succession, but lots of them that let women be "priests" surly don't have it, which means they don't have Real Presence. It's not the biggest problem though, no salvation outside the church is still a dogma. While it doesn't mean no protestants are saved, it means that if they're saved, it's through Catholic Church - the Church they usually willingly reject. The "through no fault of their own" part is kinda vague, but if we would go with st. Thomas Aquinas on this one, salvation of non-catholics is close to impossible. I don't want to be the judge of people's eternal destiny, but protestants are not doing themselves any good by being what they are and the gate is narrow.

Just to be clear, I really hope I'm wrong and most protestants go to heaven.

>Would someone like J.S. Bach be in hell?

He was a freemason, so yes

>>536671

Good music isn't a ticket to heaven.

>>536657

>>536682

When will mods ban this cretin one and for all?

>>536722

>provide no alternative intepretation for OP's edification in liue of 1 peter 1:20

>ad hominim

>no arguement

Do you have something you would like to help OP with by contributing to the thread? Sage for offtopic and baited.

>>536662

>I consider most protestants to be on their way to hell

Why? As long as they have faith in God and His Son then that should be enough. Unless you mean the kind of liberal, don't judge and marry homosexuals in your church plebs who claim to be Christian

>>536729

>As long as they have faith in God and His Son then that should be enough

That's a direct contradiction to the words of Jesus who gave us physical sacraments and a Church to receive salvation through.

>Been an atheist for 5 years and I'm trying to come around now but I'm still not sure. I wear a cross now and listen to and read Christian stuff all the time but I feel in the back of my mind I'm just a LARPer. I'm just a conservative wanting to preserve something from the past and wanting to be a part of the "old order". Doubt I am capable of being completely genuine in anything I do. But he is one of the wisest, kindest, and greatest men I've ever known and I want believe that he will be in heaven with the God he served all his life and be able to see his son again.

You say you're atheist but you seem concerned with the fate of your relative's souls…so you must have some inkling of true faith in you. Which is good.

Anyway salvation is something between individuals and God, we shouldn't speculate about other people's security, we should pray for them and hope for them and hope that all will be saved in fact. And since our God is merciful and wants all to be saved then certainly protestants have some chance for a blessed afterlife.

>>536684

Interesting, thank you for your insight. I do hope you're incorrect as well. Would like to point out though:

>Bach was a freemason

Incorrect. Mozart was, as was one of Bach's sons (J. C. Bach), but he himself was DEFINITELY not.

>>536685

It's not so much just "good music" as it was being an incredibly devout Christian who composed some of the most divinely inspired sacred music of all time. The two Passion oratorios, the cantatas, the Mass in B minor, etc. He has done more for the church than many. That's why I asked.

>>536649 (OP)

No way to know this save a special, supernatural revelation. If he was baptised, that will probably help. Invincible ignorance of truth combined with a sincere intentiom to do God's will, are also going to be helpful.

>while Augustine and Aquinas would say no and say that part of the joy of heaven is the justice of the heretics burning.

Indeed those who go to Hell receive just punishment for their sins - but to be guilty of heresy, and therefore fit to be punished for it, one must know that it's evil - otherwise, the heretic is invincibly ignorant and as such not guilty of heresy.

And the "heretics burning" you write about are already in Hell - until the moment of death, there is still hope they will repent.

>>536729

>Unless you mean the kind of liberal, don't judge and marry homosexuals in your church plebs who claim to be Christian

The prohibition of rash judgement still applies. These people may genuinely believe that what they are doing is moral, or even virtuous, and as such be protected from guilt (for these particular sins) by invincible ignorance.

>>536780

Purgatory is temporary, anyone going there will eventually go to heaven.

>>536780

>>536784

purgatory doesn't real

Catholic here. Protestants ABSOLUTELY can get to heaven. That is straight from the catechism. Radical tryhards will try to tell you otherwise. They are only false sectarians.

Any honest Christian, now matter how incomplete his understanding of the faith is, can. You grandfather sounds like a saint.

>>536870

>Protestants ABSOLUTELY can get to heaven.

Yes, but not without becoming Catholics first.

It is circumstantial. It depends on how much he has been exposed to the Catholic/Orthodox Church and how he rejected these teachings.

If your grandfather was not given a proper exposure to these teachings there was no way he could know the full truth, and therefore would not be judged as such.

None the less he sounds like a great man and none can know the limits of God's mercy and love regardless of any other circumstances.

I'm gonna go with probably yes, or atleast purgatory.

>>536873

>It depends on how much he has been exposed to the Catholic/Orthodox Church and how he rejected these teachings.

Based on what?

Remember, cities which had forgotten God were judged and destroyed by the lord himself.

>>536649

>Most prots will say yes

Why? The only thing that can justify you before God and will bring you to Heaven is faith in Christ alone. Your relative sounds like a swell Christian fella, so I think he will be alright, but at the end of the day, only God can judge the heart. I'm not God, so I can't say for certain.

Now, I'm more concerned about you. You are right to be concerned about being a mere LARPer. You can have the appearance of righteousness without true righteousness. If you want to follow your great-grandfather, you need to repent of your sins and put your faith, aka your absolute and utter trust, in Christ as Lord and Savior.

>Doubt I am capable of being completely genuine in anything I do

You're right again. Anything not done in genuine faith is sin and you are spiritually dead in sin. But that's not all, you cannot save yourself, only God can save. A dead man cannot save himself or revive himself, but an all-powerful, all-living God can. Read Romans, and I'll be praying for you. God bless!

>I know most modern and liberal catholics would say he is in heaven while Augustine and Aquinas would say no and say that part of the joy of heaven is the justice of the heretics burning.

Don't go to Roman Catholics and Orthodox for the answer. They themselves are heretics.

>>536729

>As long as they have faith in God and His Son then that should be enough.

That belief is anathema according to the Council of Trent.

>>536749

>That's a direct contradiction to the words of Jesus

Here we go again….

>>536870

>>536871

Thank goodness our Lord gave us an infallible magisterium! Otherwise we would no doubt have wide disagreement and no unity, just think, we wouldn't even know if heretics can be saved or not.

>>536657

This is a falseflagger. A cruel one at that.

>>536874

In the Catechism somewhere, I don't remember the specific line.

I was looking into salvation outside the faith. Found a line or two talking about this situation.

>>536749

john 3:15 and 16 doe

>>537076

ecclesasties 3:18-21 and 1 corinthinas 15:44 doe

No salvation outside of the Catholic church.

I'm orthodox and he will go to heaven. he had FAITH and DID good deeds. Why do you think orthodox and catholics will say he won't?

>>536781

>anime picture

>retarded post

I'm starting to see a trend here

God will find his own.

>>537129

because he wasn't part of the One™️ True™️Church™️