No.5275
Since /animu/ seems like a place to actually talk about interesting topics I'll lay this one out to you anons. Cel animation and Digital animation in anime, I'll be using using Princess Mononoke for being the being the high point of cel animation in anime and Kimi no na wa as one the high points of digital animation in anime.
With Mononoke you had an insane 114k cels of animation done traditionally with only 15% of it done with digital help from such programs as toonz or as it's know now as opentoonz, cel animation had this rougher yet more organic feel the production cost were high but the results were there. Part of the reason for the switch was because of how fucking expensive ink and paint were.
Kimi no na wa done hand drawn on paper but digitally inked and painted in Photoshop then animated in toonboom, programs like after effects and more were used along with digitally painted backgrounds to enhance the film. What I wanted to know /animu/ what are your thoughts on the cel animation to digital animation we see in anime?
No.5339
>>5275
I think digital animation has its merits with production logistics and the technology is making leaps and bounds towards the quality we used to see in traditional cel animation styles. The only thing left is to find better directors/producers and having a big enough budget them do a good job of things.
Kabaneri was a recent title I was pretty impressed with. Even though it's a recent production, the animation managed to make me feel nostalgic at times while watching thanks to the extra level of shading added.
Here's a good write-up as to why:
https://washiblog.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/kabaneris-make-up-animation/
https://archive.is/hVebJ
No.5344
No.5345
>>5339
>The only thing left is to find better directors/producers and having a big enough budget them do a good job of things.
This. I don't know much, or care, about Cel versus Digital, but I think the bigger problem is shackled directors and loss of shading. I'd also like more variance in artstyle but I don't know who to blame for that one.
No.5348
>>5339
Kabaneri I believe used Tv paint to animate.
No.5352
The shit some of the digital stuff can do is pretty crazy.
No.5363
>>5345
Style is just a sign of the times. Maybe Anime see a resurgence of retro aesthetics like how music is seeing a regression in nuances?
>>5348
I think it did.
>>5352
I used to be skeptical about the potential of digital animation but these days I'm pretty convinced one day purely digital animation will replace traditional cel productions values.
No.5364
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>5363
I wonder if it'll get to the point where they'll stop drawing on paper and scanning them to the PC to colour and animate them, then move to tablets like studio colorido skipping the drawing on paper bit completely.
No.5373
>>5364
I don't doubt mainstream Anime will get to that point but it will never look right until animators let go of tweening or draw enough in-between frames for their other objects to match the framerate of the tweening effects. The colouration and design of that short is spot on for a modern Ghibli film so I don't think anyone can complain in that regards.
No.5375
As long as it's not shitty 3d, everything is good.
No.5391
>>5339
The guy in red just rotates. Doesn't lift his legs an inch. Is he on wheels or some shit?
No.5392
Pure digital has softer edges. It's not good for anything gritty like if they were to continue Berserk and not half ass it.
No.5432
The over-digitized backgrounds is what ruins pure digital most of the time, not animation itself.
Case and point - >>5339
No.5467
>>5392
>continue Berserk and not half ass it.
Good one anon
No.5468
>>5392
>Berserk
>half ass
you meant full ass
No.5487
There are many new animators in japan who used Flash but many are switching to Tv paint which I hear is 100 times better then Retas and ToonBoom.
No.5545
>>5345
>I'd also like more variance in artstyle but I don't know who to blame for that one.
That's because most anime now is copying the copies of anime that copied an original show that had a lot of success. There are plenty of incredibly distinct anime in the last few years, but they are appearing at the same rate they always have been since the early 2000s. But the total amount of anime being put out is a drastic amount more, specifically because of the copycats. The "every anime looks the same" complaint basically only applies to CGDCT shows. Meanwhile shit like Kabaneri, HeroAca, and Made in Abyss are recognizable in an instant, even if you've never fucking seen the show.
No.5556
http://archive.is/SI970
Ryo-Chimo & The Digital Animation Movement
A pretty good read on the purely digital animators coming out of Japan and for those wondering about the gifs, they are from a guy called BahiJD a Austrian who became a digital animator in Japan.
No.5557
>>5556
You can clearly tell that's western animation style
No.5559
>>5557
It's still pretty fluid something the west hasn't seen in years. poor /co/
>>5545
>There are plenty of incredibly distinct anime
How people miss them is something I'll never understand.
No.5646
>>5559
>How people miss them is something I'll never understand.
normalfags only know 5 anime, what did you expect
No.5653
>>5646
>what did you expect
Too much.
No.5762
>>5556
>new digital animators lack classical training
Interesting read which explains a lot. The biggest gripe I have with modern animation is how most actions don't depict any sense of weight and directors overusing camera/perspective tricks to cover that up. It's kind of like with modern cinema and fight scenes compared to HK classics like the Shaw Brothers or John Woo.
No.5763
>>5762
Both east and west are having a problem of the animators lacking that training, look at Studio Ghibli and some of the older stuff west or east and compare it to the new stuff it's night and day.
No.5769
>>5763
It's either that animators are lacking the training and just need to be taught, or that realism has fallen out of favour and is to be replaced with the flashy weightless animation we're getting today.
I really hope it's the former.
No.5773
>>5769
The problem is schools don't teach animators how to do the job properly.
No.5778
No.6567
No.7185
>>6567
>What I think Disney and Pixar are great is that they focus on the characters’ simpleness and smoothness while CGI tends to be used for detailed depictions. I really agree with that idea.
No.7189
I still don't understand why Japan limits its 3D CGI animations to 24 fps.
It makes no sense, since you don't waste paper or manpower to do so (auto in-betweens function).
No.7191
>>5545
>shit like Kabaneri, HeroAca, and Made in Abyss
Those are probably the worst shows to pick for making a case about not all modern shows being generic since they were all pieces of shit that weren't that interesting or creative. Made in Abyss used so much CG in its first episode alone that it made me want to punch a fucking hole through my screen, I can't stand people praising the show so much.
No.7192
Made in Abyss is good though so stay mad faggot.
No.7206
>>7189
I think it's to do with the cinematic effect.
No.7209
>>7192
It isn't, it's a piece of shit that only seems good if you're completely new to anime and have never seen any pre-2015 shows. Or maybe you've seen so many mediocre shows from this decade that the moment something somewhat passable airs you think it's the best thing ever.
No.7300
>>7209
Regardless of whether or not it's good, you're still a fucking retard for arguing that it doesn't have a distinctive style.
No.7304
>>7300
Made in Abyss is pretty distinct.
No.7450
As long as it doesn't go full 3dcg, digital animation vs cel animation isn't that big of a deal.
That said, there's something about cel that just looks so much better. It might be the artstyle, but the shading is always so much better there.
No.7487
No.13356
No.13362
>>13356
Board got nuked by a filthy BR mod with shit taste in generic harem shows. Continuation here: >>7782