/animu/ - Anime & Otaku Culture

>>3977

Not really.

But it's infinitely easier to reuse what you have, which also means it's infinitely cheaper to correct mistakes, since instead of redrawing a portion of every single frame with that mistake, you just correct it in one animation and it carries through to everything.

And once you have a database of standard movements for humans, you can get by with a budget of five cans of Shochu and a plate of curry rice.

>>3989

>movements for humans

But movement always looks like total ass in 3DCG

>>3977

Did that guy's arm grow back? Is that explained?

>>3992

Highly likely because studios are either cheaping out on the initial investment for the animation, or they're too cheap to tweak it properly so the standard animation actually fits the characters well.

>>4000

>is that explained

In a show that could literally be called "plotholes - the show"?

>>4004

Can't they use humans to render proper movement animation as most videogames do instead of the trash that's present in most shows?

>>4016

You mean mocap?

>>4020

Yes, exactly. How expensive is this?

>>4024

I'm not familiar with this but i would assume mocap is more expensive than the half-assed animation shat out every season by literally every studio.

>>4026

I'm not talking about the small, unknown studios, but even the most budgety ones like KyoAni have bad character movement animation.

>>4030

Kyoanus is jewish and doesn't want to spend any money on it either

3D takes significantly less man-hours, which matters a lot when your main cost is paying people for their drawing skills. Yes, you still need to have animators put every scene together, but they just pose the characters for the 3D equivalent of keyframes, and software can actually fill in the blanks (what would be between frames) and make limbs move automatically from key to key. Plus, you only have to draw each character once. Every environment once. Every prop once. With 2D, you have to draw everything (but the background) every frame. A single guy working with 3D can do the work of an entire team of 2D animators.

>>4030

>>4026

The software filling in the tween frames that I talked about above, is why 3D movement looks so weird usually. Studios like Pixar or Dreamworks spend thousands more man-hours tweaking every little detail to make stuff look right, while 3DCG anime studios just let the software do the work. It's literally like how flash animation (all those shit western cartoons) works, but with another axis.

>>4030

>but even the most budgety ones like KyoAni have bad character movement animation

I was really pissed off about their blatant use of CG in Hibike Euphonium. If they had the budget to make most of the show so good there's no way they needed to use it. Which is a major issue with certain anime studios: they don't even use CG out of budget constraints, they just don't want to bother with 2D.

>>4054

*look so good

It has to be cheaper or else it wouldn't have flooded the market as much as it did.

3DCG is awful, that shouldn't exist.

>>3989

>>4053

Jumping off of these two posts, 3D is more expensive in the short time (Because of the time and work needed to produce everything), but it pays off in the long term (Because once you have the models, you don't need to recreate everything). Also, there are two other problems with CG that people rarely bring up. The first is the reason why (Using another series as an example) RWBY fight scenes were better in Poser (What Monty used) than they are in Maya (The "industry standard"): >>>/rwby/36195

>Poser had the ability to "frameblast". In other words Monty could set up the entire scene, Animate multiply characters in a single space, and move the camera, Basically at final render quality in near real time without the background and scrub quickly back and forth along the timeline.

>If i were to hazard a guess. Monty's method of animation looked so good, and could be done detailed quickly. Because he could instantly watch his own animations back in near production quality in real time at anypoint in the process without waiting for costly render times. The camera work was so good and the scenes felt so alive because they were animated as a single set peice thanks to the quick iteration capability of the tools.

Because have how "standard" 3D programs do not render the animation anything close to realtime, the production company ends up relying primarily on storyboards. And, a company will not see if anything actually looks wrong until the final render comes out, and, by then, the question is if they want to leave it as is and move on or fix the problem until it looks good enough and waste more time.

The second thing I'd like to bring up is that companies purposely lower the framerate for CG. Using 3D software means they can output series in 60 fps or even more, but what they end up doing is purposely lowing the framerate to 15 fps, and it just looks terrible. Need look no further than shows like Knights of Sidonia and Ajin to see how bad it is. However, the entire reason they end up doing this is because they attempting to still make it feel like a traditional anime.

>>9298

Forgot to say, I was using Maya. Fuck Maya.

>>9298

>>9301

Pretty sure that's more dependent on the graphics card than cpu.

>>9325

I can't remember what card I had at the time but it was capable of playing Doom 3 on high, which was the benchmark back then.

>>9325

I think the default renderer for Maya only uses the CPU, although I assume that the better third-party plugins use the GPU as well.

I suppose it has a high initial cost, but then because assets can be reused costs are lower for longer series.

Frame-by-frame animation has more or less fixed costs per episode no matter how many you do, so there is that. I'm impressed One Piece hasn't turned to this if this is really the case.

>>9273

>However, the entire reason they end up doing this is because they attempting to still make it feel like a traditional anime.

This pisses me off to no end. The one visual strength 3DCG has, and they fucking shit on it 99% of the time in a failed attempt to emulate a different medium.

>>9273

>purposely lowering the fps to make it feel like traditional anime

Then why did earlier attempts at animu 3DCG run at a constant 30 fps?

The first stage of Initial D didn't have its 3D framerate lowered arbitrarily even though they probably had every reason to considering the hardware at the time.

>>9273

>One suicidal weeb faggot was more competent than the entire anime industry

>>10490

If you mean Monty, didn't he die by some freak allergic reaction during what should have been a routine medical procedure?

If I remember correctly, I think it was something like him going in for minor surgery and his body had a fatal allergic reaction to the anesthetic they gave him.

Dude wasn't suicidal.

>>10576

Actually…his girlfriend killed him. Read all about it here: >>>/rwby/2189

>>10581

>>10576

>His girlfriend kiled him

This. If I remember right, bitch was completely fucking crazy. She made him live with cats that clawed at him and cut him up constantly. He was extremely allergic to cats and had to take medication for this. He had a bad heart or something and the stress from working extremely hard on his animation baby project and his body being assailed by cats sent him to hospital. Bitch gf got the doctors to pull the plug on him before his family could arrive.

Never trust 3DPD ニート's.

>>10589

>first pic

Looks like someone needs to lift more.

>>10481

They didn't know how to handle the whole 3D cell shading thing and what looks good

>>4024

>mocap in anime

>good idea

pick one

>>12468

Still 3D as fuck.

I don't get it, we have Guilty Gear tech, how hard is it to just do that.

>>12475

Even the 3D in Guilty Gear doesn't look right.

The thing about 3d you need a a higher fps in every motion or else the animation will be laggy. Laggyness in 3d is very noticeable than hand drawn. Overall, it's not very suitable for typical anime at all.

>>18559

it felt more like the faces were hand-drawn while the models were 3d like in kimagure mercy

>>27027

>Fan works can consistently put out better quality than this, I've seen scores of MMD videos that easily meet or exceed them.

Bullshit. Show me some that "exceed" Gantz: O. I read the manga, know the story is shit, and they cut out a lot of good parts, but Gantz: O is some of the best "anime" style CGI I've ever fucking seen and the only thing that competes with it I can thing of off the top of my head is Space Pirate Captain Harlock.

>The only real question I have left is, why one random arc of Gantz of all things?

It was one of cool arcs and could most easily be made into a more isolated story with a climactic finish.

>>27038

calm down oku

>>27050

No.

>Oku self-inserted as a cool OP character

>Lets that character die offscreen while running away like a bitch anyways

>>27038

My mistake, I meant shit like Ajin or Berserk. Gantz 0 is probably one of the highest watermarks for full CG action.

3D *can* be done well. ARCSYS should teach anime studios how to do it.

>>30752

DBFZ looks good cos the groundwork was done in GG Xrd

>>10687

>>10481

It was new and they weren't trying to emulate traditional anime, that's really it. The choppy shit only came after when the japs saw the writing on the wall for 2d animation.