No.36846
Why the fuck was Naruto so hard pressed to win over Sasuke when Shikamaru was the true friend?
>Asked the question as a child of why should I hate Naruto?
>Didn't rely on OP eye magic all the time
>Used wits to win battles
>His personal revenge took 2 weeks while Sasukes went on for years
>Knew Naruto was special and was gonna be a force for good in the village
No.36848
>>36846
Since he’s the only good thing from Naruto his arcs were short and sweet and actually provided character growth
No.36855
>>36846
You shouldn't ask questions like this about a known shit shounen manga. You know Kishi threw everything at a wall and things like shikamaru and his arc stuck very nicely to it. Also he fought the coolest lol akatsuki members and got temari at the end which was a surprisingly good turnout for the end of that manga.
The real question is how Moegi can use wood style
No.36859
>>36855
But why do I end up watching fucking clips of Naruto even with how shit it is
No.36866
>>36859
Not all of Naturo was shit. If you slashed out the Ninja War bullshit, you could propably say a majority of Naruto was good and would be worth going through.
No.36867
>>36846
>Naruto
>final boss declared a world war because he can't accept his gf's death
>true final boss wants world peace through putting everyone in a virtual world
>the actual true final boss shows up out of nowhere
>everyone did nothing wrong
Why do you even bother asking these stupid questions?
No.36869
>>36866
>Not all of Naruto was shit
This only applies to the original Naruto.
Everything is shit in Naruto Shippuden.
→Neji was right
→all bad guys were once good guys who had a tragic past
→Akatsuki turned from being badass to being a bunch of emo teens
→bullshit powerlevels
→pointless flashbacks
→nobody dies
>you could propably say a majority of Naruto was good
NO
No.36884
rewatching an episode of bleach
i'd forgotten how good the horror elements are no pun intended
No.36913
>>36869
>Everything is shit in Naruto Shippuden.
Doesn't Shippuden basically start with the Ninja War arc?
No.36930
>>36869
>nobody dies
This stood out to me a lot. Well more so the overall shift in tone between Naruto and Shippuden. Naruto projected just an overall "darker" (in some ways of the word) tone than shippuden, where things went into focusing on powering up/battle shounen, rather than the character development focus with cool battles on the side of Naruto.
In any case, am still a fag and love the world, so I still enjoyed it.
I've been looking for a reason to pick Boruto back up as again, am world loving fag, but I dropped it once the chuunin exams started and haven't got the motivation to get back into it. Anybody have any thoughts on how the series is going?
No.37000
>>36869
My problem with Shippuden was things got way to over the top. Like yeah Naruto has giant frogs and shit but Shippuden has shit like fucking nuclear Rassengans,Sharigans tgat some how get even more OP like it was a big deal Kakashi had ONE eye with it but they kept adding more shit on it, and don’t get me started on Madara Uchiha
No.37001
>>36913
Introduces the Akatsuki bullshit and then leads to pain then ninja war
But it’s not a ninja war with the other villages no it’s a war against fucking ninja zombies
No.37042
>>36930
I believe the series is suffering from the same disease as Dragon Ball.
I mean, we already have alien conquerors from outer space. It's only a matter of time before it turns into Dragon Ball super.
No.37093
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>37042
>>37000
It already did Sage mode was pushing it but the fucking nine tail fox mode is nothing but super sayian bait or how both Sasuke and Naruto get fucking giant stands
No.37097
>>37093
I'll show you this sage mode
No.46329
"I'm a bad father, but to me, being a good Ninja was better than being a good father. Susano'o, that's a machine I understand. Rinnegan, that's something I can get my head around. Training my daughter all year round, summer included? So I'm sitting there at the 7th's council, these guys at the table are my family. Can't win if you don't play, that's what I tell my Boss' son. I put a forbidden scroll down; check, check, they didn't take that. Genjutsu fight right there at the table, I take on a guy twenty years my junior. I got my ass HANDED to me and I'm pissing my pants. They…threw me out."
No.46349
Sasuke is the romantic interest whereas Shikamaru is his best friend.
No.46353
>>36846
What's up with Sasuke anyway? Why was he in the show? He has no relationship with Naruto, he has no relationship with Sakura, he doesn't give a shit about any friends, teachers or citizens. He's only driven by revenge without giving anything back other than disinterest and bad attitude. In the big picture he's only being used as an excuse to keep the story going. Also Hinata rules.
No.46376
>>36846
Because Naruto is Cuck.
No.46384
>>36867
>everyone did nothing wrong
But everyone dies.
lmao
No.46385
>>36869
I like this threat.
No.46419
>>36930
>Anybody have any thoughts on how the series is going?
Chapter 61 and 65 are the only good thing.
No.46420
No.46427
>>37093
>stands
Not everything is JoJo, anon.
No.46430
>>36930
I'm actually enjoying it more than Naruto in a way, I think the characters are better. The only problem is the pacing so far but it looks like it's picking up now.
No.46432
>>38312
I liked the part where the black chubby comes out.
No.46443
>>46329
What is this?
I have not read anything from the manga.
No.46487
No.46501
>>46329
I laughed, fucking adult swim
No.47982
Serious question.
Why does everybody seem to wear the same exact type of shoes?
It's like closed toe boots don't even exist.
No.48009
>>47982
Kishi has a foot fetish.
No.48061
With the exception of some cool side-characters, Naruto was horrible in just about every way you can imagine, particularly towards the end, to the point where I'm surprised that I'm surprised Bleach often gets more vocal shit-talking than Naruto does
No.48072
>>48061
The world and chakra system were nice as well. But yes, the ending was horrible, I could not even finish it.
No.48079
>>48072
>chakra system
Which Shippuden constantly ignores and violates at every given moment?
I'm going to have to say no on that one. The chakra system was only interesting in the first Naruto.
No.48080
>>48079
Even if they ruin and ignore it, the system itself is a nice idea.
No.48479
>>48061
>Naruto was horrible in just about every way you can imagine
You mean Shippuden.
The first series was decent.
No.48491
Why does it seem like Minato himself was an asspull and the 4th Hokage shown in Naruto (not shippuden) on the mountain is meant to be a different character altogether and not Naruto's dad. He looks way different than who he ended up being revealed as.
The 4th here looks absolutely nothing like Minato
No.48532
If you go back and watch up until shippuden begins, you'll notice that a lot of shit was later retconned, like character entire character motivations.
Itachi wasnt meant to be good.
Gaara's uncle and mom really hated him.
Minato was not the original 4th hokage.
among other things.
No.48653
>>48479
Yeah, Shippuden, the first series was more tolerable but not quite good
No.48673
>>48653
I mean, it's no YYH Dark Tournament but then again what else is? Especially for the early 00s.
No.48677
>>48673
I do wonder what caused Kishi to drop the ball so hard. I mean, it takes a special kind of ball dropping to immediately contradict your own hamfisted moral lessons about hard work triumphing over all without so much as an iota of self-awareness. He bothers making Boruto so you can't truly say he stopped giving a shit. And before anyone says it, I don't Kishi was making enough money to justify the horrendous working conditions that mangaka suffer. Even if you're a complete Jew, the sheer amount of effort you need to put in is hardly worth the money. Best you just end it and live off the money you made off the series as well as the occasional royalty from merchandise and movies/remakes.
No.48679
>>48677
That does make me wonder, how much money does Kishimoto actually make?
No.48682
>>48673
YYH was garbage, take your nostalgia goggles off. It turned to shit the moment it tried to be Dragonball Z.
No.48696
>>48682
You can probably say a lot about YYH but I do not recall it ever trying to be DBZ. What does that even mean?
What do you enjoy?
No.48698
>>48677
I just dont like how he decided to give characters he didn't originally intend to be redeemed a redemption story, probably based on popularity contests or something.
Now everybody previously evil who's still alive is a friend of Naruto's family in some way, even Orochimaru for god's sake.
No.48714
>>36846
Wasn't Shikamaru a gay?
>>48677
>I do wonder what caused Kishi to drop the ball so hard. I mean, it takes a special kind of ball dropping to immediately contradict your own hamfisted moral lessons about hard work triumphing over all without so much as an iota of self-awareness.
Aside from all of the other powerscaling bullshit in Shippuden, and that's a lot to consider, I find it baffling how sasuke manages to alternate between being emo and having powers handed to him. Sasuke did no work to become as powerful as he did while naruto worked hard until the middle of shippuden was over and naruto transformed into SSJTailBeast.
>>48491
There's a photo with glare in the first or so episodes of Naruto that shows Minato. But aside from that it makes no sense for Naruto to not know his dad was the fourth hokage even despite the stigma he had. It would make perfect sense for any sympathizing character like the third hokage or his teacher to try and cheer Naruto up and give him a role model by teaching him what his dad was like.
No.48718
>>48714
>Wasn't Shikamaru a gay?
I never got that vibe from him and he ends up with a son who looks just like him.
No.48723
>>36846
The same reason all the other stupid things in the story happened: Masashi's a dumbass who lacks foresight and writes himself into corners. This is the reason he let magic eyeballs entirely take over a manga that was supposed to be about ninjas. It's also the reason he's so terrible with character relationships.
Might Guy was the best thing to ever come out of that trainwreck of a series.
No.48738
>>48723
>Might Guy
>not Jiraiya
No.49007
He's deeply in love of Boruto, right?
What the fuck?
lmao
No.49017
>>48738
Might Guy is the coolest character by far and everything to do with him and Rock Lee was by leaps and bounds the highights of the series. I've said it elsewhere but I'll say it again, the only problem with Guy is that he didn't die when he opened all 8 inner gates and went kaioken x100 against Madara. If he died that would have been the perfect end to him. A man through sheer hard work going toe to toe with a bullshit character like Madara, using everything he's got and sacrificing it all to buy time would have been perfect.
Jiraya while likeable isn't even as cool as Rock Lee
No.49018
>>48723
>>49017
<Might Guy
<his character design is terrible
<his fight with Madara is pointless
<his flashback with his dad is pointless
<his entire character is pointless
>he's the best character
No.49022
>>49018
How does it feel to be completely wrong on every level?
No.49027
>>49022
Not an argument, faggot.
No.49028
>>49027
What's there to argue. You just stated your opinions, unfortunately you have the wrong opinioms
No.49030
>>49028
>calls somebody wrong
>doesn't explain why it's wrong
You couldn't be more of a faggot, could you?
No.49032
After all, (Naruto) Boruto still has those good moments.
No.49036
>>49018
What are you talking about? Guy would save the day and steal the show in just about every scene he appeared. The author had to keep him away from most of the major conflicts in the story because he was too damn strong for any villain to handle except the last two. If Guy was pointless, then so are the main characters and everyone else he saved when they couldn't do shit. Also, his design is the best.
>>49017
That's right. You totally get it.
No.49037
>>49030
Fine, his character design is fine considering it's just an homage to Bruce Lee. In fact his and Rock Lee's characters and the fact that they use fighting only is all an homage to Bruce Lee. Which I personally found nice.
His fight with Madara was fun and delayed Madara long enough for Naruto to get there.
His flashback adds characterization and backstory to the character.
And calling his character pointless is like calling any side character pointless
What the fuck do you want, you know you're just being a stupid faggot who's arguing for the sake of arguing. You said all that shit without explaining why so why should I explain myself
No.49038
>>49036
>Guy wasn't pointless!
>He was too OP and could've saved the day any time!
Doesn't matter, since he has done nothing or achieve anything in the span of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden.
Kishimoto didn't do anything meaningful with him, nor have him affect the plot at all, so Guy is by definition pointless.
>>49037
>homage to Bruce Lee
Nobody would've ever figured that out if Kishimoto had never mentioned it in an interview. Guy neither looks nor acts like Bruce Lee.
Bruce Lee is shirtless most of the time, while Guy is always clothed. Bruce Lee also isn't flamboyant and doesn't do Guy's smile at all.
>His flashback adds characterization and backstory to the character.
No, it doesn't. The flashback was all about his dad, which adds nothing to his character or the story.
>And calling his character pointless is like calling any side character pointless
Duh. That's what I'm getting at. Guy is just as good as the side characters.
>What the fuck do you want, you know you're just being a stupid faggot who's arguing for the sake of arguing. You said all that shit without explaining why so why should I explain myself
And yet here you are, you dumb faggot.
No.49039
>>49038
>Nobody would've ever figured that out if Kishimoto had never mentioned it in an interview.
Are you actually retarded? I didn't even know that Kishimoto mentioned it in an interview.
>Rock LEE and Might Guy
If the fact that Guy looks just like Bruce Lee didn't tip you off I'd hope that Rock Lee sharing a last name with Bruce Lee did.
>No, it doesn't. The flashback was all about his dad, which adds nothing to his character or the story.
The flashback shows the development of the technique of opening the inner gates and gives context to what Guy came from. Also it does focus on a young Guy as well and not entirely his dad so I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to.
>Duh. That's what I'm getting at. Guy is just as good as the side characters.
Sorry anon I didn't know that you couldn't find a character interesting unless it's a main character. I guess I have to like Sasuke then, he's cool and deep and edgy and has special eyes. He's my bishi dream.
Also fuck you I like discussing it anyway so might as well
No.49040
>>49039
>If the fact that Guy looks just like Bruce Lee
He doesn't. Refer to pic related.
>How can you not notice? They have the same last name!
Now you're just being a faggot.
>The flashback shows the development of the technique of opening the inner gates
This has nothing to do with his character. They could've just explained this like they explain any other jutsu.
>gives context to what Guy came from.
Which is basically copy-pasted most of Lee's backstory. Nice.
Also, it shows that he had always been optimistic. How very interesting /s.
>Sorry anon I didn't know that you couldn't find a character interesting unless it's a main character.
Nice strawman, faggot. None of the characters in Naruto are interesting.
They were at first, before Kishi ruined them by giving them shitty backstories.
The Akatsuki were great, before Kishi reveals that they were all a bunch of angsty teenagers.
This series is for faggots.
No.49041
>>49040
>He doesn't. Refer to pic related.
>Now you're just being a faggot.
I'm sorry anon I didn't know you're blind and retarded, if you seriously can't pick up basic ass hints like that and make the connection then I really don't know what to tell you because that's pathetic. Or you're just fucking with me which at this point is more than likely.
>>49040
>This has nothing to do with his character.
I guess not directly but unlike what you said the flashback isn't entirely about his dad. Besides showing someone's childhood and living conditions does in fact provide context for the character which does involve them.
>/s
>>>/cuckchan/
I'm done
No.49042
>>49038
Guy has done some important things here and there. That said, Kishimoto has the bad habit of neglecting pretty much every character other than Naruto and Sasuke, most of the time.
Shikamaru's arc was breath of fresh air, but it didn't last long.
No.49043
>>49041
>basic ass hints
I've already pointed out that he didn't look, act or dress like Bruce Lee, which is why it didn't register to me until Kishimoto said it himself.
But I digress, since we were discussing about his character design. And his character design is terrible.
>Besides showing someone's childhood and living conditions does in fact provide context for the character which does involve them.
Said flashback doesn't even relate to what's happening at the current moment, which was solely about the 8 gates.
But don't let me get in the way of your delusions and fapping to this insignificant background character.
I'm done :^)
No.49129
>>49007
Well, at least Mitsuki can swap into a female body if he asks Orochimaru.
No.49134
>>49040
> /s
doesn't even matter that your argument is correct. get the fuck out.
No.49955
You mean to tell me that Kabuto was able to dig up every dead major ninja since the series started and before, but for some reason couldn't fish Jiraiya's corpse out of the lake? That's some bullshit, and I don't believe it.
Jiraiya lives.
No.50068
Why would you bite your own thumb to draw blood when you have a fucking knife? fucking stupid
No.50134
No.50411
No.50458
>>50411
Lol fag. Watches anime made for homosexuals.
No.51673
Mitsuki's plot are always good.
No.51674
Question:
How is manga's story different from anime's?
No.51678
>>51674
Stop asking retarded questions, newfag.
No.51695
>>51660
>Tsunade
Is he a tsundere?
No.51696
No.51896
Why does Sarada make me rock(Lee) hard? Her design is so simple but so damn alluring for some reason. I haven't seen the series, so I won't take her fanart personality (apparently a fangirl of Naruto and a bit cheery if reserved) as fact, but I like that personality.
No.52032
>>51695
No, she's a bitch that did not let Jiraiya fuck her.
No.52095
>>51673
Too bad it's all filler.
I hope Mitsuki turns on Boruto and helps Kawaki kill his dad/wreck the village.
No.52104
>>52095
The manga is more advanced or goes further back?
No.52111
>evil by nature
>cant be trusted
>had to be wiped out for the good of the village
Are Uchihas the kikes of the ninja world?
No.52114
>>52104
The manga has barely even started.
There's only like 20 something chapters so far.
No.52121
>>52114
The source is the Novel then.
No.52123
>>52121
Nope, it's like Dragon Ball Super. Anime original everything else made after that.
No.52129
>>37000
I may have shit taste, and continued watching this shit until near the end. I accepted that everyone was basically a fighter mage rather than a ninja from the beginning when MP chakra was introduced. But when Muh-doo-ra Oo-chee-ha came back from the dead and had unlimited MP chakra, because he was undead, I dropped that shit right there. It was too fucking stupid for even me. Might pick it back up at some point just to see the final fight sequences. Couldn't give less of a shit about any of the characters at this point.
No.52135
>>52123
Still less filler than Shippuden
No.52153
>>48677
> And before anyone says it, I don't Kishi was making enough money to justify the horrendous working conditions that mangaka suffer. Even if you're a complete Jew, the sheer amount of effort you need to put in is hardly worth the money.
Is he under contract?
No.52156
>>52123
I dont think that's accurate either.
The manga is just very slow moving.
No.52158
>>49032
I can't get over how they look like a made-in-China off brand of Naruto.
No.52175
>>48677
>He bothers making Boruto so you can't truly say he stopped giving a shit.
I don't know who told you that Kishimoto does the manga for Boruto but he's an idiot. Hell, if you made the mistake of reading it it would immediately become apparent that someone else is doing it not from the character design but from how he draws the action and backgrounds. The guy doing the art for Boruto is one of his assistants from the very early Naruto chapters, Mikio Ikemoto, and the story is written by the same guy who wrote the film, Ukyō Kodachi. Kishimoto has as much involvement with the Boruto as Toriyama has with Dragon Ball Super. People bring him shit and he says "okay" and let's it go through.
>>52156
Rreading up on it it's a clusterfuck
>Boruto starts as a movie featuring the conflict with the divine beings whatever that are all white 2015
>Manga starts as a prequel to this movie and then covers the same movie about 7 chapters in starting mid 2016
>the anime tv series starts airing December 2016
>light novels are written based not on the manga but the anime after this
It's retarded as fuck.
No.52197
>>52158
All Asian culture has the same origins, it is difficult not to relate them at times.
Something very beautiful really.
No.52202
I wonder what Jim Profit is doing?
No.52271
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Say what you want but this was one of the best EDs in general and Obito was truly a great character, even though Madara got all the glory and fan praise.
No.52272
>>52202
>stop talking about what I don't like
>>>/a/
No.52286
>>52271
You have a particular and melancholy taste.
No.52497
>>52272
Are you retarded? I mean I know you are new as fuck since you obviously have no idea what is being talked about. So are you autistic, downy, mentally ill? What is your problem there, buddy?
No.52712
No.54409
Naruto is a gateway anime of the worst kind. It's a bad series, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive shipping faggotry and DARKNESS. The normal anon can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the series itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.
However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for aspie, unsociable underageb& faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The superpowered characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the jutsus, peculiar, colorful clothes, the whole ninja faggotry and everything about the Naruto world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on revenge, and overall preachiness of the series make it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes little kiddies and underageb& retards eat this shit right the fuck up.
Naruto is basically THE series to attract the most hated anime fanbase known to /animu/, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every anon to troll the fuck out of this show and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Naruto threads ever encourage the newfriends to show their faces here.
No.54643
Why does Kakashi wear the Uzumaki clan mon on his arm?
No.54648
>>54409
Naruto is the same shit as everything else. It's a solid story that starts off strong, and has a lot going for it, but fucks it all up once it matters. Like when it finished the Chuunin exam arc. Just like DBZ at the Frieza arc. Just like Bleach at the Soul Society Arc. Just like Hero Aca will be after AfO v OfA in 10 years. None of these shows are inherently shit, and there were good/fine at the beginning, but now are shit. Pretending it was some cosmic force that turned them into trash is disingenuous at best.
No.54651
>>54648
It's a common pattern in Jump shonen battle manga.
Definitely caused by those at the top. DBZ was a hit, so they're forcing every other manga into the same formula to maximize profit.
Which is why Togashi made a special contract to prevent them from touching HxH, and why Kubo didn't really say anything when he was asked about his work experience with Jump.
No.54652
>>36846
Because kishimoto is an edgelord faggot that was in love with his little emo boi and wanted him to end up as a "good guy"
No.54687
>>54648
to me, i think DBZ was still good up until the end of the cell arc. it was at that point that the torch really got passed from goku to gohan. that would've been a great ending for the show, actually.
>>54648
it's just that the authors can't help themselves and milk the cashcow for all its' worth. that being said, naruto was shit in many ways even before the milking began; having 3-4 minutes of flashbacks in an episode, with the flashbacks sometimes including shit that happened in that very same episode. then all of the other squads who had a member sacrifice themselves near the end of naruto, when they're chasing after sasuke - only to find out that "hurr durr they're all actually still alive", just dogshit storytelling.
it was a bad show in general from the get-go, because even the good parts such as the initial (keyword: initial) worldbuilding and character development were overshadowed by shitty pacing and shitty flashbacks.
No.56112
was kishi really certain that black zetsu would be the final antagonist????????? was he planning it all from the beginning and just playing 4d chess with us, i don't think he was just making an asspull
No.62787
>>36869
shippuden was shit except sasuke and itachi's arc I liked that
No.62796
>>38312
Sorry but no, Neji was right, if Naruto didn't have the Kyuubi and stupid amounts of Chakra he would have died MULTIPLE times during the first arc. Let alone Shipuuden where literal bloodline limits he inherited from his mother's bloodline helped him survive bullshit like the Kyuubi being split from him.
>>46353
Sasuke and a vast majority of Naruto's rivals plus enemies are nothing more but ham fisted allegorical parallels.
>Gaara
What if Naruto had an even shittier childhood and decided to give up to the Jinchuriki's violent tendencies
>Kimimaro
What if Naruto caved in to the Jinchuriki's violent tendencies because the village decided to kill him and put him out of his misery
>Obito
What if Naruto became talented like his rival, but was traumatized by the death of his love interest?
Hell Jiraya himself despite being a teacher of Naruto is a Naruto parallel as well. Honestly I could pull off these examples out of my ass all day long. It seems Nardo has this obsession about potential evil geniuses become evil due to the environment around them. While simultaneously bullshitting that "HARD WORK AND EFFORT TOTALLY PAYS OFF GUYS!" Even though within the show plus universe itself it shows that bloodline limits ARE EVERYTHING. They determine how much chakra you can have, how many natures you can use, combine or use at the same time, they determine your affinity to using chakra, they determine bullshit hax abilities. Even when you steal an opponent's organs for bloodline limits, you'll only get the abilities tied to it, but not a piece of your opponent's chakra pool, meaning if you were born with shit tier amount of chakra you're shit out of luck.
In fact this brings me back to this >>38312 retarded shit here, the only characters who can be ARGUED that broke the mold of Kekkei genkai bullshit are Gai Lee and Rock Lee. Both characters who ultimately have to mutilate their bodies, as well as sacrifice their social life plus social skills to overcome their mediocrity at molding chakra as well as their potentially mediocre chakra wells. But again, the shit they do, they do it by breaking their bodies, and as it was shown in the Madara fight, the Eight gates has it's limit, and once you reach said limit it will kill you unless you're resurrected by Ninja Jesus. Which is yet again a contrarian message to the whole "nurture over nature man…" bullshit philosophy, because any of the feats Gai and Lee could do with a full eight gates, people with fully unlocked kekkei genkai can absolutely shit on or even match in intensity.
No.62830
>>36848
The best thing to come out of Naruto was Rock Lee.
His entire story proves a point that will echo through the series forever.
No.62840
>>62830
That hard work only pays off at great personal cost if you don't also have the talent, genes, or connections to bolster your development?
No.62861
>>62840
No, that no matter how much hard work and effort you invest into something you're not naturally talented at, you will always lose to a person who actually has natural talent. Regardless of how much you suffer during your entire life and work hard to the point of killing yourself over it, talent will always beat hard work.
Remember that Rock Lee still lost the fight against Gaara during the tournament. Not only that, he broke his bones, suffered severe internal damage and put himself into a coma-like state """while standing up in fighting poise""" by the end of the fight. And the little sand faggot just got spooked. That's it. Not even a bruise.
The same Rock Lee who beat Sasuke's ass not too long before, because Sasuke didn't yet know how to become OC donut coldsteel handwings then. The same Rock Lee who trained all his life while under constant scrutiny and mockery due to having no natural jutsu of his own. The same Rock Lee who had to nearly self destruct fighting an opponent with so much natural talent that he didn't even have to move when fighting and might aswell have plotshield, just so he could graduate ninja school. And he lost.
Rock Lee's story completely shatters Naruto's philosophy and message into dust. Frankly the series should've ended with Naruto realizing that. You know, the kid who's only got his strength because his dad gave him kyuubi on a silver plate and because of that forbidden clone jutsu scroll he literally stole.
Lee's arc was a truck-sama-level reality check. And the worst of it is that the author completely disregards Lee after that arc for the rest of the story. He deserved better.
No.62862
>>54687
>i think DBZ was still good up until the end of the cell arc.
You're wrong and you should probably kill yourself.
No.62885
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>62861
Agreed. Lee was the height of the series honestly.
No.62986
>>62861
>>62796
This, Naruto's argument of nurture over nature is completely shat on by crap like kekkei genkai and genius level talent. Not even Gai by nearly killing himself could actually do substantial damage to Madara. It was Naruto with his bullshit kekkei genkai anatomy plus attributes like a high chakra pool for Jinchuriki hosting and sasuke and his special snowflake eyes.
No.63224
I dropped naruto years ago a little after chunin exams because I didn't like where it was going. And going by what has been argued in the thread, it seems I spared myself like 300 chapters of disappointment. That being said, my curiosity was piked by this shikamaru arc, does anyone remember at which chapter of the manga it starts?
No.63374
>>63224
Shikamaru sadly only had 2 good fights in the series after the chuunin exams, that you should watch and read. The first one is against Tayuuya, second one is against an Akatsuki member named Hidan. Anyhow the arc roughly starts at around chapter 312.
No.63387
>>63374
Thank you very much, anon.
No.63404
>>63387
You're welcomed, anyhow, know of a work of fiction where people are actually stealthy in it? It doesn't have to be ninjas, hell the stealth can just be shitloads of autistic preptime. Just really want to read a story of a really weak protagonist taking down foes using the environment, gadgets and stuff while working within the shadows.
No.63453
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Here's a good ass video on Naruto:
No.63457
>>63404
Damn, now you've got me. I don't read many shonens nowadays but even then I can't recall much that'd fit your criteria, but I'll try:
-Dr stone kinda fits the bill, although I'm not sure if it's what you are looking for, it's mostly using the use of his genius to overcome challenges.
-There's EATMAN, which is finished that generally has mc do some prep work before confrontation, but this really isn't front and center, and most of it is enabled by a special abilities.
-The promised neverland has a good amount of prep work, this is probably what closest represents what you want.
-Bokko, this is set a couple thousands year in the past. The mc is sent to try and protect a city from an invading force with a much bigger army than the city has.
it seems battle of wits mostly happen in the gambling genre (liar's game, one outs, fukumoto's shit…), I couldn't think of any other series.
No.63512
>>63453
I'm always 50/50 with that guy, sometimes he produces garbage, sometimes it's actually good like that video.
No.63559
Naruto was tolerable up to the end of Sasori arc, it was the the most interesting point of the series mostly because Akatsuki real goals and identities weren`t known yet, it really felt like there was a lot at stake.
Beyond that the author really lost this touch and the fact that he didn`t really think the plot through caught up to him, it was all messy tiring and unfocused. However the series didn`t trully died until the concept of Orochimaru bring people back to life arbitrarily. I can`t stress enough how disastrous to your narrative is to bring a means to resurrect characters even if it is temporary, it takes away the audience investment since they will always rationalize their liked character will be brought back to life at some point.
No.63560
>>63559
Akatsshit was a lame excuse for plot-driving villains tbh
No.63561
>>63560
But we didn`t knew that at that point
No.63562
>>63561
Doesn't matter, they had a clear hierarchy and Not-Obito was introduced really early. I still can't fucking believe Kishimoto did that obvious as fuck plot twist. When the reveal was done I just couldn't fucking believe he did that.
No.63565
>>63562
It matters to my point
No.63567
>>63565
Your point is shit due to the implications of there being a heirarchy and a dumbass in the group who for some whimsical reason didn't have to abide by it.
No.63569
>>63567
At the point the only known members were Itashi, the fish guy, Deidara and Sasori. We didn`t know anything about them besides the fact they were jinchūriki hunters. They were very regimented and secretive, they were played straight no goofy stuff was known beside some quick interactions with Obito, as he is only fully revealed after sasori arc.
It`s fine tho I forgive you for miss remembering it
No.63647
>>48698
>I just dont like how he decided to give characters he didn't originally intend to be redeemed a redemption story, probably based on popularity contests or something.
>Now everybody previously evil who's still alive is a friend of Naruto's family in some way, even Orochimaru for god's sake.
That's become a trope in shonen now. It was originally a recurring thing in DB but because of how ridiculously overplayed it was in Shippuden, everyone assumes Naruto as a whole did it first. The thing that makes this trope stand out the most in Naruto is how like you said, a redemption story is used, but also that most if not all villains have a backstory that makes them sympathetic.