/v/ - Video Games

git gud

>>16718023

I am, but im so sick of my favorite games being changed to pander to an audience that will put the game down the moment they get on a losing streak. So the games die and I play with the same 10 people.

>>16718013

If there is a guy absolutely flooring you, there's 3 options.

A) the guy has more mechanical experience

B) the guy has more knowledge

C) you are retarded

In cases A and B, the game developer is at fault for not teaching you how to play the game. And before any fags start bashing my ass, there are clever ways to teach a player how to play, and build slowly and steadily from that. Megaman in general does a great job at this. Dota2 and almost every fightan are clear transgressors. Dark Souls is an interesting case, it's tough, steep, and grueling to learn but that's the idea.

It's not just Git Gud, a great game implements clever tools to teach the player by playing the game, can you imagine that? A game that teaches itself?

or playing any game at all? On /v/?

>>16718053

I agree with this anon. Fighting/Competitive games have just as much responsibility to teach their players how to play properly as any other genre does.

>>16718013

if a game is only paid for when you buy the first time, then there is absolutely no benefit from long-term play, and therefore no reason for any company to do what you ask. Plus, a person tends to remember their failures with much more strength than their sucess. A task correctly performed will be forgotten for the most part, but a task unfinished or failed will keep insidiously coming back to you. It's a way to keep the player engaged despite himself.

>>16718053

Wait a second nigger, how is it the dev's fault what so ever if someone is more experienced than you? If a fag has thrown 50 hours into a game to your 10 minutes the fuck would you expect to happen?

>>16718127

>A task correctly performed will be forgotten for the most part, but a task failed will keep coming back to you

Positive and negative feedback/reinforcement. It's definitely possible to design a game such that good play is more rewards than bad play is punished, but you're right that fighters are not made this way.

>>16718138

I think he means that the game should have taught what was needed to theoretically being able to "win". Of course there's gonna be a difference in skill level due to experience, but one could say that new players should not be paired with experienced players, because in that case noone will benefit (the newbie will not even understand what went wrong, and the expert has nothing to learn from beating up a newbie). In general, the ideal scenario would make experience a non-factor. Of course I know that "ideal" is not real, but that's how it should be.

>>16718099

You should, at the minimum be able to know "where" you screwed up and "why". If you keep failling and you have no idea why or how you faild, you cannot improve, as you will keep making the same mistakes.

>>16718154

So the ideal game is a coin flip? Wondering what a game without experience levels looks like.

>>16718154

>the game should have taught what was needed to theoretically being able to "win".

We all know people never play the tutorial if they're given a choice. And if they're forced they'll forget a lot of it once they're done with it and they won't necessarily replay it.

>In general, the ideal scenario would make experience a non-factor.

I feel like this is incredibly off the mark. Not so much because it can't be "real", but because it goes against what a game is.

>>16718013

Works for Mariokart.

>>16718170

There are other ways to teach players besides crash-course style tutorials. They're typically bad for the reasons you stated.

>>16718161

>>16718170

No, no, not a coinflip, I don't mean that both players should have the same level, but it should be comparable. If the skill level difference is too high, noone learns anything and it becomes frustrating for the newbie's side, and boring for the winning side. the fun is on fighting someone that won't a cakewalk, but that won't be so experienced you have absolutely no chance against. if you wanted to just beat people easily without effort, you'd beat on the CPU.

>>16718178

:^)

>>16718099

KI has a feature kind of like that, you get a ghost of your own play style and then you can fight it. Easy to discover your own weaknesses then

>>16718246

Yep. The story mode is designed to initially be easy to get you going, then allow the harder difficulties or online to wreck you.

>>16718080

The only problem with that is emergent gameplay. In many games players will find combos the developer didn't design nor did they discover in testing. There's not much the developer can do about those other than patch the game to contain that information. But that's not ideal either, because a lot of the combos people find in fighters aren't true combos, but tech chase combos or combos where the intention is to bait the enemy into a block so you can do a grab or guard break, etc.

A lot of high level stuff you can do in fighters comes from intuition, experience and knowing your opponent (if applicable).

>>16718372

I think the only real thing to take out of this is that if you are averse to failure, don't play fighting games. They are not for everybody.

>>16718053

In what way does dark souls teach you to play the game?

>>16718154

>You should, at the minimum be able to know "where" you screwed up and "why"

That's not a problem with the game, that just means there's nobody of a matching skill level to play against.

>>16718376

Pretty much. Fighting games are purely trial by fire and if you're not down for that, it's only one, very small genre that you're missing out on.

>>16718387

There are a lot of genres that can't really be enjoyed if you are averse to failure or you are easily put off by loss, though.

>>16718412

I'd agree with OP that people like that shouldn't be catered to. If they want to be a bad sport that blames their losses on anything but themselves, they can go gamble their money away until they kill themselves, or at least take up a non-competitive non-"challenging" hobby. But I bet someone like that would still find a way to feel entitled to praise and shit on other people, like attention whore wannabe artfags that draw shitty low-effort art, refuse to learn or practice, and yet complain when better artists get more praise than they do.

>>16718379

>In what way does dark souls teach you to play the game?

The prison in the beginning of the game tells you how to play, in three it's the same. That's how.

>what about two

That game doesn't exist.

>>16718837

dark souls is a trial by fire since in the third one it's trial by fire and you are taught how to block and dodge and not really taught what successful dodges look like. And it teaches you the controls but not how to win.

>>16718146

You mean like something akin to Kudos in MSR/PGR and the point system in Melee, where you gain and lose points based on hiw the player plays?

>>16718187

Anon, the problem I see with your idea is that winners are the biggest failures. The only way you can master a game is to keep losing over and over and over and over and over and over until you finally start winning more than you lose.

>>16718376

>>16718387

>>16718412

You have to learn to fail if you want to be able to play ANY game. Why do you think all these baizuo keep pushing for "failure free entertainment"? You can't even call them games, they're just interactive environments.

>>16718013

I agree with you 100%. Ruining games so casuals can have a chance to win through mere chance, some shoehorned comeback mechanic, or because of stupid contrived event they had no part in bringing about is stupid. It removes all enjoyment at higher levels as abusing said stupid gimmicks and comeback mechanics is more effective than working on strategy, acquiring knowledge, and execution.

However, I'm also gonna play devil's advocate. A game that has a steep skill floor requirment to enjoy (e.g. danmaku STG) is a hard sell, especially when the game doesn't teach you jack shit (other than the trivial, obvious stuff that is). When reaching the skill floor isn't just a matter of practicing, and requires you to actively memorize stuff (e.g. does this combo work against $CHARACTER), sit through hours of tutorials and/or footage and emulate what you see, study numbers and ranges obtained by dataminers, etc., no one's gonna bother to learn all that shit, let alone do that PER GAME (though it gets easier after the 1st one).

The average casual is not willing to commit dozens of hours to learn all that for every game (no, really, it's one of the 2 reasons I'm not into fightan games, the other being wifi connection), especially if they get curbstomped every step of the way. People usually just wanna sit down, relax, and play. They will just skip the outright instead of bothering.

Also loss aversion and complacence play a significant role. People like staying in their comfort zone, completing levels and moving on, rather than losing and/or retrying.

>>16718053

Add action-puzzle games to that list. Puyo and Tetris have piss-poor tutorials.

>>16718042

Learn some self-control and stop playing/buying shit games.

>>16718013

There is only one thing that should ever be addressed. That is dancing. Dancing is the most cancerous form of defense to exist in games. Jumping, spinning around, and moving erraticly should not grant a player invincibility. That shit is never designed into a game, because game developers are typically horrible at the games they make. It is absolutely emergent and practically cheating by those who can do it well.

>>16718053

There's also

>D) He's hacking

It happens, more often than people want to admit.

And

>E) You're disadvantaged due to other factors

Team games will impact how well you do depending on how good your team is, class-based games will impact how well you fair if your opposition is playing your counter or not. Also experience is no guarantee of mechanical skill either with plenty of people with enough experience at a game to match the best still not being at that level.

They're trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator for cash. The lowest common denominator is not the kind of person who, when beaten, seeks to learn more and become better so they can overcome the challenge. Their target market is more likely to bitch and quit when faced with something that's difficult.

All the redditors that play Dark Souls roll in a party of 2+ because they can't handle the game, just wanna say they beat Dark Souls.

>>16718053

A) the guy has more mechanical experience

B) the guy has more knowledge

C) you are retarded

D) the guy has much lower reaction times than you, better hand-eye coordination than you, better multitasking ability, higher IQ, etc, pick whichever apply to genre. Sometimes two players just have different capabilities. There is nothing "wrong" with this.

>>16718246

That's not how a lot of the matchmaking works, though. Otherwise you'd see it in the code.

>>16718013

The suits understand, they just don't care because they still turned a profit anyway. The key is finding devs that actually want to make a good game and aren't restricted by their publisher, if they have one.

>>16720931

What? Are you implying that most games with matchmaking are open source? Because that is not the case at all. The win/loss balancing is definitely the case in most of your most popular games like Dota 2.

>>16720931

its exactly how matchmaking works and your a niggercattle

>>16719166

>>16719258

Loss aversion is very common in people, and it's by far the biggest anathema to fighting games. People want to play things that they can beat without effort, but that create the illusion that effort was needed for it so people feel accomplished.

>>16719103

No, no, I don't mean that, I mean that the point of these types fo games is that you need to constantly learn and improve to get anywhere. If a newbie is paired with a person who's a master at the game, none of them will learn anything. A person who just started learning combos can't be expected to learn subtle zoning nuances, it's just too ahead of his learning curve. Plus, a person who has some experience may be annoyed at having no real "challenge" if all his opponents are absolute newbies. If you took anything else from my words, i may have misspoken.

>>16718099

how does a game detect a mixup, and how does a game figure out new mixups players make up over time?

>>16718013

>Soulcalibur

It fucking sucks that I stopped playing because of the fuck huge increase in damage that even playing it with friends becomes a huge bore. The single player content is also lacking AGAIN. Why cant they just port over 3's Fire Emblem mode and 4's Tower? Why did they release another god damn visual novel in its place? Who the hell is this for? At least Tekken 7 had some damn effort put in.

Soul Caliber just pisses of fightfags that are used to infini-juggle retardation.

>>16721101

Soul Calibur pisses me off because it added super meter and then gave us the abomination that is Reverse Edge.

>>16718099

SFV, GG, BB and a bunch of other fighters all literally have this.

They show he inputs that the opponent was pressing and have a input recorder so you can make a training dummy perform the actions again so you can practice blocking it or reacting to it.

It's really telling you post an SFV meme image but don't actually know the learning functions that are in the game.

>>16721138

I wasn't being literal.

>>16720990

Those screencaps get it all wrong. People who want their games to be a fun escape aren't in the wrong or lazy or "dumbified". My job requires me to put maximal effort, thought, and focus throughout basically the whole day. When I get home, yeah I could probably put that effort into a video game too, but it'd be unsustainable over a period of just a few days. That's why most of the time I want my games to be "easy". I don't want to have to put in maximal effort to not get crushed and disappointed. I literally don't have the spare energy to 'git gud' and reach the top echelon of players.

The screencapped fag thinks people who want easy games are people who don't put maximal effort into anything.

Like maybe it's because I have a job now, and I don't really have the patience to deal with this kind of faggotry now, and maybe we're talking about two different things but, like we're not going to pretend some faggot who had the whole day to piss away on guides or get some butt buddies to hop onto one game and fuck with people that have got off work for the day.

>>16718013

No worries OP I'm also not that good at Mordhau keep trying we'll git gud eventually :)

>>16721301

>People who want their games to be a fun escape aren't in the wrong or lazy or "dumbified"

Both posts make a distinction between casual players and people who actually want to git gud and the barriers that surround doing so in a general gaming sense, and in the other post specifically in the fighting game sense. The 2nd screen cap specifically ends by saying it only applies to games that have an actual skill ceiling and not just any game out there.

>That's why most of the time I want my games to be "easy". I don't want to have to put in maximal effort to not get crushed and disappointed.

Very few games would do this to you though especially in the modern generations? Unless you are playing competitively, single player games aren't going to be soul crushingly hard unless you've turned on that higher difficulty and/or utterly cannot adapt to new challenges. If you're like me and like games in the same vein as DMC, Bayonetta, MGR, or any of these modern beat-em-ups you're going to encounter this specific problem though. You can beat the game at your regular skill level, but you're probably not going to thrive and get perfect scores across the board and miss collectibles and hidden encounters. So if you want to do better you're going to have to put in more time, spend more exploring stages and understanding what you're doing wrong when it comes to fighting. That's when you have to actually start getting good.

And if you do play competitive games, most modern ones have some ranking system in place so that you get placed against people who are of a similar skill level to avoid you getting crushed as badly as you might getting placed against a regular tournament player. Just don't expect to have the same returns if you show up at locals or the arcade.

They try and hide the skill gap, they know it will always be there. And they do it by designing the game around making you think you lost because of the game or other people, not because of a lack of skills. It's why social/multiplayer games are so popular. Other players on your team gives the player a lot of excuses to blame on their loss besides themselves. They have found the fine line between "fuck this cheap ass game" and "I'm only losing because of everyone else or some random bullshit in this game"

>>16721374

are you trying to make an argument for the casualization of whole genres? If you want a easy "unwind" "chill" game you have skyrim. Sorry that nobody can satisfy your paradox of making a game with depth but not so much that it looks autistic. If you want to play something casual you have options but asking for a niche genre that was pre-defined to being deep. I have a job to and even I still stayed good at shooting games and all kinds of games, it's my hobby where as you want it to be a easily accessible time sink. You have the attitude my mom has about video games, so are you even a gamer?

>>16721414

awful bait but I don't even own a PC that can run the game. If you want to buy if for me I promise to act like that comment hurt my feelings.

>>16721301

You have tons of unga bunga games, hell every single nintendo game on planet earth is easy since it's shallow and fun since they're kids games that don't tout themselves as such. You have options you just ignore them because the illusion of core gaming is more appealing. Want a brainless fighting game? Smash. want a brain-less shooter? COD. Want a brainless RPG? Elder scrolls. Like I said if you don't play video games much then having a small selection shouldn't be an issue since my mom is in a similar situation since she works with the government and she just plays candy crush and is completely fine with it. (well I think I saw she had a handful of games on her phone, but point still stands). Nobody expects you to play at a upper echelon, if losing hurts why do you play online?

>>16721169

Tekken 7 relies on attacking airborne targets since they're vulnerable, and leading to wall caries can make or break a match.

>>16721427

That has to be it, I think those cucks at extra credit did a video on that, something about "giving everyone an "out"". So in team based games no one can pin something soley on one person. It still sucks since some games do it poorly like soulcalibur and they just pile on all the gimmicks in a vain attempt at new player retention.

>>16721476

>Balancing two opposing virtues is a paradox

No, it's called creativity and talent. I know it's been about 12 years since we saw that in the industry, but I hope you remember what it looks like.

>shooting games

Have only gotten easier over time. Remember when every gun wasn't a laser and landing your shots required some forethought and special awareness?

>>16721476

No dumbass, I'm suggesting that "Profaggots" that hop onto the goddamn mess that is "Matchmaking" strictly with the inherent idea to fuck with people that are there for a myriad of different reasons, but more than frequently for leisure and not because they treat it like a job.

It'd be like if two amateur league football players walked into a bar and challenged everyone in there to a 4 on 4 tackling contest, but they both get to be on the same team.

The fuck do you think is going to happen?

>>16721488

you have ranked and casual in 99% of anything online, if you go to ranked and get rolled well you know your standing. If you go to casual and get rolled whole host of reasons that include you being bad. I still don't understand what you want, since avoiding being floored isn't possible in an online setting.

profags exist on anything that has even a slight competitive element, and im pretty sure PvP isn't exactly mentally relaxing since if all you wanna do is turn your brain off why do you care if you win?

>>16721476

That's not an infinite juggle though, make a proper point anytime.

>>16721513

Because nigger the so called "pro advantage" and "skills" in random matchmaking that consist of 99% of steamrolling any online team game comes from the fact that 6 dickheads decided in their gay chatroom before they hopped on the game to organize, and it literally vanishes the second people realize what the fuck is going on.

This is quite literally 99% of the basis of retarded shit people cry about "Being Casual" in a FPS game I will not name, but I know you know what it is, and it solely has to do with these retards hopping into a server and irritating everyone else with their faggotry into stop actually doing what they showed up there to do, and inevitably results in the "pros" throwing a fit and sulking.

Unfortunately this shit goes both ways, and involves literal niggers arguing for incredibly restrictive design meant to cater to them and enable them to be shitters on people that oh my fucking god I can't believe he's gonna say it wanted to play a game to HAVE FUN, because jesus fucking christ is someone on the other team "PLAYING THE GAME"? what a fucking travesty, and it always springs to mind the image in my head of a community game from a decade ago where some faggot decided to scream at the admin because "people were playing wrong".

>>16721513

>he's unironically defending matchmaking

I suggest you lurk for about two more years.

>>16718013

They don't care.

>>16721481

>No, it's called creativity and talent.

How do you pander to two opposing audiences? One wants a game that they don't need to think to play and it just flashes pretty lights on their screen another wants pure autistic depth. You'd have to alienate one to satisfy the other. Since games of ye olde that were in that range were only this simple due to hardware limitations not choice. Like wipeout for playstation, at later speeds the game struggles to render the game making the game nigh impossible due to the high speed unless you memorized the tracks (which was more than possible) and they couldn't implement speed beyond that or make tracks all that big. now Wipeout Omega has you zooming around at hundreds of miles per hour at speeds that'd melt the PS1 and it has more complexity and depth making it more true to life for a racing game.

What you want is casual gaming, which wasn't a thing in the past since you had to be super autistic more so than now to enjoy gaming since gaming wasn't cool or mainstream the casual crowd didn't exist. So 10 years ago people like you never played games you sat at home watching MTV and smoking meth in your parents shed. The only person who thought gaming was this silly fun casual time a decade ago would be someone that goes to Kotaku unironically.

>Have only gotten easier over time

No, because Doom and such didn't have bullet deviation in a believable way so you could always predict the spread since it was always like a cone or radial. Halo shook it up and made shooting games look like more than just a distraction adding much needed depth and a skill-curve to boot. Games now have tons of factors for making guns more difficult to use, like battlfield 4 unironically since it's guns aren't hitscan.

>>16721533

It's not infinite but it chews up your health considerably, and pair that with rage arts you can win with a handful of attacks.

>>16721539

To some the gameplay is just as fun as winning, to others winning is secondary. If the outcome doesn't matter and you don't play the game enough to care why does losing hurt? If you play and did your best and lost why do you care? If you had fun with the gameplay it should be fine since a game can be fun even if you lose. Hell that's why I liked early mortal kombat since it was fun. You sound like you just want to play a different game but are justifying your purchases to nobody. It's k we call it the Ikea effect. Just play a indie game that way barely anyone is good at it because barely anyone is playing.

>>16721549

Stay mad, if you join a casual game you lose nothing leaving if you get rocked. So you have no reason to complain if the setting is too serious for you.

>>16718053

This is fucking retarded, the examples you brought up are mutliplayer va single player. No amount of spoonfeeding will help shitters beat those that go the extra mile to gitgud.

>>16721609

Because nobody likes spending 5 minutes of their only leisure time sitting in spawn because [FAGS] Jimmy, [FAGS] Limmy, [FAGS] Bimmy, and [FAGS] Kimmy #transrights decided let's have 4 people camp the spawn all at once.

You add literally nothing to the game, all you have done is show that you don't know. THE LITERAL FIRST RULE OF GIT GUD

Sportsmanship

>>16721613

I really need that money I really do.

>>16721609

>How do you please both players

Not having matchmaking for a start. Casual players enjoyed games like Quake all the time with other gamemodes, because they could actually choose the servers they play on. It seems like you are too young to imagine what not having your entire gameplay experience dictated by a robot is like.

>Doom was easy too

Like your other point about skill ceiling, you only see the extremes and immediately jump to the very beginning of FPS design to "prove" your point. Yes Doom wasn't very hard, it was also a toddler in terms of FPS game design. It got a good number of things right but made concessions because lofty concepts like "freelook" were still unimaginable due to both hardware and player expectations.

>you have no excuse to complain about us controlling your gameplay experience goyim, how DARE you talk back to our matchmaking algorithms

Shill. Seriously, I hope you read your own post again and realize how much of a fucking idiot you are for suggesting that everyone should just conform to the friendly computer algorithm. Suck start a shotgun while you're at it.

>>16721829

how do you not have matchmaking in fighting games you nincompoop?

people could go out of their way to never fight you ever and you'd end up never playing against other people. is your brain made of oat meal?

>>16721101

Scrubs like you always use hilarious non-terminology to justify your losses It's most noticeable to me in card games where people will complain about "broken combos" or "netdecking" when they are clearly shit players that lost on a level playing field by making suboptimal choices against players who usually aren't even playing combo decks. The same applies here where you are complaining about something that just doesn't happen in modern fighting games because you truly have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

>>16721948

Fighting game lobbies are still a work in progress and while I don't mind the networking you need to do to create a nice sized community. Most of them have shifted from forums to Discord so I'd rather play in person or just have good matchmaking than suffer through that pile of shit program just to play some sets with random people.

>>16718053

your use of DOTA2 is terrible, there will always be sheer fucking retards who can't play the tutorial and blunder through a few games/watch a video and valves constant attempt to train these fuckwits on top of their efforts to make dota be "more fun to watch" is killing the game faster than tf2

>>16721932

I don't really play fighting games and if I do I would never play them online. That genre is simply not designed for online.

>>16718237

Seems like an interesting feature. Record player data in a "shell save" that essentially mimics your fighting style from let's say the last 3-4 matches you palyed. You can load one of these "saves" to essentially shadowbox and find weaknesses in your own skill.

Frankly there should be no gap closing between skilled and unskilled players. The good players should be rewarded for being good at the game, by the simple fact they can grasp the game's mechanics. Unskilled players will always burn out, you can't account for every factor, the ones that care about closing the gap will always be a small percentage of the initial crowd of "unskilled". The best thing you can do is just to patch out any ACTUAL bugs in the system, like wave dashing for example, while a popular thing in melee, it's a unintended side effect of a bug in the physics, or bunny hopping, which again is a bug in the game's handling of air speed and physics. While people will probably defend them because "They increase the skill level", it has to be argued that it's more akin to cheating as it's abuse of bug in the system

>>16719202

What games do that?

>>16721138

Tekken's wall carry combos that do 80% after getting jabbed by literally any move. MVC 3 entirely. A lot of these ones were phased in more recently, past EVO lineups used to be nothing but those games.

On top of that, there's other issues with the lineup.

Street Fighter 5: Self explanatory, and it's all footsies, but everything is slow as fuck.

Tekken 7: 80% combos are the norm past a certain skill level.

Smash: heavily matchup based. For example, with some characters Ness can combo PK fire into PK fire almost infinitely under right conditions, but any of the balloon weight characters can easily escape due to hitbox shenanigans. Heavily tiered as a result and some characters can't be played in a tournament setting.

MK11: All footsies, and any effective combos are high input, tiny frames with no fuckups allowed. One of the characters is considered overpowered because he can chain grab due to his throw leaving the opponent closer then other throws.

Soulcalibur 6: Literally the only nearly perfect game with a good skill gap.

Under-Night: Also good

DB FighterZ: nigger rushdown mode all day every day, plus rock paper scissors mechanics.

Cross Tag Battle: Dumbed down fighting game.

Samsho: Perfect and great example of old-school style fighter. Space or die.

There's issues beyond juggles in most of those.

>all this sc6 hate

You know you can just sidestep against reversal edge

>>16722361

>all of tekkens moves are launchers

Gr8 b8 m8

>>16722376

There's more then launchers in tekken. Some moves stun long enough to lead into launchers, and these moves can be as simple as a jab. In fact most combos start with really basic shit, lead into launchers, then wall carries, some of which carry all the way across the stage, and then the wall combos start. Tekken isn't even about positioning anymore, it's 2 touch death when you're not fighting a beginner.

>>16718013

This is what matchmaking is for. Play with people close to your level. No one will "git gud" playing with people who absolutely destroy them. Of course, if the game is designed to play with random friends instead of over a proper matchmaker service then reducing the skill gap increases the range of people you can play with, so that makes sense for certain games.

>>16722388

If you mean on counter hit then yeah there are a lot of launchers but you have to be pretty balsy to fish for counterhits and most of those are unsafe with the exception of ch 4 which is a high for most characters that have it so i dont see the issue. Soulcalibur 6 is much more brutal with counterhits as well since you can get launched just for moving

>>16722749

Also it’s not why “heavies aren’t played.” They definitely are if they have a good hitbox. It’s the large bodied chars that are disadvantaged, but most tend to be heavy. In fact having a small hit box but high weight helps you escape juggles and this is why chars like fox are so good.

>>16722760

Having a way to cheese players who can’t di doesn’t make a character good though. Ness can PK fire cheese for the first 60 percent but after that he is at risk of getting thrown offstage and being gimped. That’s why no one plays him seriously

>>16722845

And you have characters like Joker and fox who have combo and ko potential that are just as good if not better who don’t get gimped with minimal effort by most other high tier characters. Face it Ness was little Mac before little Mac existed but he had the luck to not be designed to be completely trash in the air. Also you should be glad competitive players play well balanced characters that can get early kos because the opposite dominating the scene is complete cancer. For all his faults even Mashpotato Samurai realizes the game is most fun when it’s fast and offense-oriented

>>16722868

>OOGA BOOGA NIGGA HOOGA GOTTA RUSH FAST

No, the most shallow games are based on reflex alone.

>>16722878

I bet you main Rosalina.

>>16723108

Nah bitch Rosalina is trash.

>>16718246

That's bullshit. If the matchmaking is even half-way competent they don't HAVE to go to all that extra length. Every player, with the sole exception of the single best player in the world, will rise to their level of incompetence. Matchmaking strives to put everyone on the level where they lose half the games, because that's what happens when you are matched against equally skilled opponents. And of course when you lose, you go down in ranking so you fight easier opponents and win again. All entirely without any intent by the company.

>>16739577

>>16722411

gb2 >>>/reddit/

>>16718237

It would have been nice if Sekiro would have done something like that. Sort of as a riff on Nioh's bloody graves.

>>16721301

The first screencap doesn't even have anything to do with casuals, the faggot is just diving through mental hoops trying to justify why fighting games have zero content - only a casual wants more than a barebones vs. mode, a real FGC player would hang out with his bros at the arcade or at the con instead of playing videogames.

>>16721301

>why should any activity ever require me to learn and better myself, i have a JOB just like almost everyone who isn't literally retarded

this is such an absolute bottomfeeder mentality.

also anyone who doesn't have a broader conception of 'fun' beyond winning all the time and never actually facing a challenge beyond their skill level is a fucking infant.

I love this thread because its about casuals trying to explain why they suck.

I played a good as round of DragonBallFighterZ where the dude was WAY better than me, but I'm not a newfag.

This faggot buu kept me in blockstring and mixed my dick non stop.

Halfway into the game I realize this nigger literally cannot stop blocking low, I land the same overhead 6 times in a row.

As a FGC nigga I know this fag is quaking in his boots so I hit him with grab everytime after a hard knockdown and WOULDN'T YOU KNOW IT it worked.

Eventually the dude goes full 100% with his block strings but since hes done it before I reflect into 3 supers which ruined his team of only knowing buu.

Yall just suck alright?

>>16722361

I tier listed it based on gameplay over difficulty

>Tekken 7

>Melee

>DBFighterZ

>GuiltyGear

>Samsho

>Soulcalibur 6

<stillbirtth

<cross

>>16718023

>>16720933

God I hate illiterate nigger cattle.

>>16744652

And I hate people who type like niggers.

>>16718013

Fighting games can make a lot of money if they put that effort into making beat em up games and flushing out thier world instead of making another 1v1 frame tech fighter ultra edition. Imagine Skullgirls or street fighter as a beat em up with levels, skills, bosses, story, co-op/online etc.

>>16718013

WoW is the perfect example of a good game getting ruined by casual pandering.

>>16718053

>not reflexes and intelligence

Those fucking autists that can memorize maps and spawn points have a big advantage over people who can't.

Not just that but also spatial awareness.

>>16739597

>And this is why multiplayer games are irredeemable trash.

stop playing games with a shit community (because that what it comes down to). devs doing nothing to foster said community and give them to tools to organize themselves also don't deserve any money.

see TF2 custom servers vs matchmaking.

>>16745655

wow normies can't into fighting games so hard

The last fightan game I seriously played competetively was Mortal Combat 2 and 3.

I guess Mugen and SS:Hades count (sometimes when my sisters kids come over, but that's not competetive)

>implying getting wrecked and wrecking hard isn't supreme fun

>he has never gotten good at a good game

If it's a trash game with shitty balance it's not the existence of skill's fault that you aren't having fun with it. Games don't support white forms of competition any more, only black black negro competitions. Nugamers seriously think their ranking has any objective value (which they are encouraged to think by the games themselves) so they act like retarded child niggers and compete dishonorably.

Matchmaking is trash, I remember only really gitting gud with FPS games when being in a dedicated q3 community back in the day and we were all learning off of each other.

Still doesn't excuse casuals bitching and all the excuses, if you aren't actively aiming to git gud enough to shit all over some discord buttbuddy group's antics as a single player you don't deserve to post here.

>>16746726

>implying getting wrecked and wrecking hard isn't supreme fun

Losing isn't fun, I never really understood this thinking. But if something isn't challenging you can't feel mastery when you finish. As you get better you need more difficult games to still feel like you are accomplishing anything. The enjoyment of just "playing" alone probably decreases with age, to the point most people think games are pointless.

Kids actually "play" games. Adults just do unpleasant work until they win. I remember how when I was younger I would play games on easy and cheat without a second thought. These days I can't see what the point of playing a game is if I am just going to cheat through it.

>>16746758

>Losing isn't fun, I never really understood this thinking.

You're a pleb who wants meaningless wins, then. You don't actually enjoy the competition or understand that getting good is fun, you just want the wins.

>>16739607

This mentality of"anyone who isn't obsessed with a games and spends 24 hoursa day mastering it is not a real gamer" is the true cancer.

I come from the generation that played games on fucking cassete tapes. 45 minutes to load WInter Olympics or Popeye. Saves? What are those?

I moved from ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64, Amiga 600, to the PC. And also consoles (Sega, Nintendo)

With so many games around and so little time (especially if you're working, not everyone can be a worthless NEET that lives in his parents basement)

>>16746919

There are good MP games, but they are rare because of all the microtransactions and shit balancing.

Games like UT and CS were always fun. AS are co-op games like EDF.

The modern shooters with whacky characters, DLC, micro-transaction, PtW and other crap are garbage

>>16746977

A full time job jacking off, I guess.

Yeah, I COULD devote autistically all my time to super-master one game, but why should I?

I have more things to do - including modding and OTHER games.

Perhaps if I was younger, but I'm not willing to devote that much time to a pointless endavour anymore. Not when I can enjoy the game and have time for others. And it has nothing to do with avoiding challenge - I like challenging games. But there is a time investment point and dealing with fags point at which I say "not worth the effort".

It's time better spent mastering something useful - like 3d modeling, texturing, music making, woodworking, whatever.

Fighting games competetive autists are the worst and RTS gookclickers also.

>>16745533

All "communities" that you refer to are exactly what I was complaining about - a couple dozen faggots who have invested 2000 hours into the game and are unbeatable barring divine intervention. TF2 custom servers are exactly that. Games with no community are the only ones where you have a reasonable chance of winning, like Tetris 99.

>>16747123

>ugly models

>feet shit

All this shit taste in one pic.

World of Warcraft Warlocks used to be one of the highest skillcap classes with DoT snapshotting (refreshing them when you had burst, trinkets or procs, outside of normal refreshes when it runs out)

Now they are the easiest class in the game along any retard can play because DoTs are dynamic and accomodate to your burst, trinkets or procs.