/v/ - Video Games★

>Starcraft died with Brood War

I'll take "shit nobody has ever said" for a pair of dubs.

lmao where did you hear people say it was brood war? Because I'm almost certain it was actually nowhere.

>>16702956

I heard it right here on this board some time last year

>>16703022

Oh that thread, looking up for screen caps of it, but it was mostly making every major character a fucking retard and elevating Kerrigan to a master mind bullshit, then in SC2 Wings of Liberty to Heart of the Swarm, Mengsk manages to outmanuever and switch positions with Kerrigan that made it fucking unbelievable if you saw how Brood War Kerrigan tricked the Dominion, Protoss, UED, and Cerebrate Swarm. That's the narrative problem along with how they fucked up a lot of build up by the SC2 Trilogy.

after a year or two after sc2 released. blizzard ruins every game they make eventually these days, even if it comes out good in the beginning, they find a way to ruin it.

>>16702932 (OP)

Some people don't like broodwar's additions, but to say that was when starcraft died is not true. You can say it might have ruined it, but never killed it. Although I don't know why you would say either. Starcraft died with 2 wings of liberty, and it was because acti-blizzard wouldn't keep their grubby little mits off it changing things constantly and the DRM it came with. It was even dropped temporarily from the esports scene because the DRM caused lag even on local play.

If Warcraft III never was released would assfaggots still have taken form some other way?

>>16703032

I'm surprised by how good your memory is, that was exactly what I was talking about

brood war is apparently more popular than it's been in awhile now because of remastered, which is great. i don't really see it though, it seems pretty dead competitively. i watched the last few seasons of ksl and it's a lot of fun (especially since you can now make out what the fuck is actually happening) but the audience live out in korea is like 100 people, and that's being generous

starcraft 2 right now as a spectator is pretty terrible though, much worse than brood war. it's all 200/200 supply battles in the middle of the map, it doesnt feel half as dynamic as brood war still does 22 or so years later.

if you want to know why starcraft died as a single-player game instead of a competitive one, it's because starcraft 2 was split into three way-too-expensive pieces and the story was fucking terrible. i don't even know how they fucked it up so bad but they did.

>>16703071

What's wrong with always online? There's a ton of rich community features you miss out on without it. Did they ever add Discord integregation?

>>16703024

It's called gookclick specifically because it spawned esports cancer, not because of the gameplay itself.

>when

When StarCraft 2 was released.

>why

Because Blizzard has too many diversity hires.

Starcraft/Brood War is still great to play. Starcraft 2 is complete ass, though, and actiblizz knew this and tried to intentionally kill off Brood War competition so people would be forced to play their shit sequel by default.

>>16703054

Brood War is mostly dead outside of Worst Korea. During peak times of each server respectively, all non-gook bnet servers (including 'Asia' server) combined get maybe 6-7k players, whereas the gook server easily breaks 30k by itself during peak times.

Starcraft was never good.

Total Annihilation is better.

>>16703198

>false dichotomy

They're both good games, nigger. Of the two, Brood War is a bit better, but that doesn't make TA shit.

>>16702932 (OP)

Interest in Starcraft died shortly after the release of Broodwar, in the West. Nobody ever liked Kerrigan becoming the main antagonist and representative of the series: people liked space muhreens versus the overmind, because once again, Blizzard does nothing but ripping off W40K.

However, bugmen in Korea managed to elect this shitty game as their national sport and pretty much doomed e-sports forever. There has to be something very sick, very insect-like for millions of youths turning a RTS game into an obsession.

But just like the Chinese's opinion is irrelevant even though they're billions, so is Korea's role in gaming. Starcraft was just a cargo cult: a mania induced by culture shock.

>>16703077

>i don't want to minimize idle production

you're shit at all RTS games.

>>16703223

>Interest in Starcraft died shortly after the release of Broodwar, in the West.

But that's wrong, you retard. Brood War was very popular in the west until the mid-2000s. Also

>muh ripping off of 40k

No more than 40k ripped off of Starship Troopers and other scifi that came before it.

>>16703230

Don't believe everything you hear from youtubers, cuckchanner. And Blizzard has a history with plagiarizing Warhammer, so why even bother trying to deny? Are you a masochist?

I liked Starcraft II, but it definitely turned the game hard into Rock Paper Scissors. Every unit had a hard counter and a soft counter, so the whole game was built around scoping the enemy and seeing what unit/strategy they were building toward and hard counter it. Every RTS has that to some degree, but in the end there was very little wiggle room in Starcraft 2. They building this? I guess I build this. They going heavy early economy? I'm going harass. They going harass? I'm building turrets.

The only wiggle room for talent to show is in micromanagement and dancing, and that's not so interesting. Brood War had more potential for macro creativity.

So the game comes 100% down to keeping a scout up, memorizing how to determine early builds for a particular strategy, and memorizing all counters, plus gookclicking.

Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander were always better games than the Starcraft games anyway.

>>16702932 (OP)

When Blizzard hired leftists. Leftists always fail at everything that they try to do.

>>16703077

It's called gookclick because it has a trashy, very basic UI that necessitates micro that wouldn't be required in a well-made RTS. StarCraft forces to do manually things that you can automate in properly made RTS like SupCom, such as base templates and adjustable move/patrol/rally sequences.

>>16703225

Gameplay wise this. Story wise, the change from a space opera to a fantasy drama.

I just hated how they changed it from the zerg being just a vicious animal just doing its thing to Carrigans bitch children.

All the story in sc2 was so bad it hurt.

>>16703237

>Don't believe everything you hear from youtubers, cuckchanner.

Nice projection, nigger.

>And Blizzard has a history with plagiarizing Warhammer

I never denied they did. I said that the amount of stuff they plagiarized from them is no more than the amount that 40k (or WHFB) plagiarized from other settings and stories before they came along. Why are you trying to deny? Do you have braindamage?

>Earth is overpopulated

>Let's take 100,000 criminals and shove them on three starships so they can colonize for us

>It immediately fucks up and they crash land X light years away for a few centuries, oh well

>But also, humanity was just starting to develop psionic powers, very very rarely

>Oh fuck, turns out that Zerg are receptive to this, and in addition to fucking up planets, Protoss ships come to glass every infected planet

>Protoss and Zerg both made by Xel'Naga forerunners, nothing much is elaborated, save that Zerg annihilated them one day

The premise of SC1 was fantastic, even if it was a rip off of WH40k/Aliens and most notably Starship Troopers. It worked.

>>16703274

>Tassadar fucks up the Overmind and saves his people so badly, that instead of the traditional greeting of En Taro Adun (Adun being a hero from the Aeon of Strife), it became En Taro Tassadar

>Kerrigan goes all corrupty (thanks Metzen!) and nonsensical revenge porn plot

This is still fine. What kills me is SC2:

>Raynor: I know I swore I'd strangle the life from you for killing Fenix, but I loved you :(

>Literally who from Raynor's past is obvious Mengsk plant

>THE OVERMIND WAS ACTUALLY A GOOD GUY THE XEL NAGA WERE EVIL. t. FUCKING TASSADAR'S GHOST

I hate it

Classic Starcraft just got old and died. It lasted over a decade. Patches stopped, new and interesting maps stopped, and the e-sports shriveled up and died. So I guess technically we can say that Starcraft died with Brood War, though it did live a full and fruitful life.

Starcraft 2 was dead on arrival. People thought the game from top to bottom was ass. Here's a fun reminder for people who might have forgotten - At launch, Blizzard didn't have a way to browse custom map lobbies, nor did they have chat rooms. They insisted they weren't necessary. But it's decisions like these that really showed that they're nothing but retards with some important IPs and a lot of financial backing. It was a game that was aimed at an entirely different audience (people who like RTS games vs people who like watching RTS games).

>>16703255

This. In order to move an army of 50 small units up a cliff using a single transport, you have to:

>move all units to the cliff

>select 8 units

>right click on transport

>wait for transport to pick up 8 units

>select transport

>move transport to destination

>unload transport

>return transport to remaining units

>repeat the entire process 6 more times

Compared to:

>select transport

>place ferry order on bottom of cliff

>place ferry order on top of cliff

>order all units to the ferry marker

There is absolutely no reason that a game should demand so much attention for a genuinely menial task. Professional-level Starcraft 2 games are frequently won by whoever has the most time to piss away doing menial tasks that you shouldn't be doing to begin with. That's why SC2 is dominated by quick raids, because you're forcing somebody to stop playing the game and to come stop you, taking away their capacity to do menial shit that they shouldn't have to do in a modern RTS. I don't play games to be a fucking bus monitor.

>>16703313

nailed it.

I never understood why StarCraft 2 was basically StarCraft HD. It offered almost nothing new other than fancier graphics and smoother animations. Okay, I'm sure it was a lot more than that, but still. It took those fucks over 10 years to do that. Also, what the hell did the expansions offered? Those were absolute abominations as well and offered nothing new.

They couldn't add anything daring, like a MOBA mode at launch, after seeing the success of Dota. There was also hero FPS mode inthe Rise and Fall civilizations at war RTS game, which had a much smaller budget but still offered something to the table. Even if it didn't work blizzdrones would eat it up.

They were too perfectionist and that's what fucked them over. Even Nintendo doesn't sit on any of their main franchises for 10 years, and I mean their #2 or 3. It just amazes me how money can change a company for the worse.

Starcraft was never too great imo. The campaign levels are pretty boring compared to rival RTS like Age of Empires series, or Blizz's own follow-up, WCIII.

Campaigns in Starcraft 1 seem to go like:

>Here's 5 normal levels

>here's a level where you can't build a base (or similar)

>Here's two more normal levels

>now grind out twenty of an expensive unit and lay waste to the giant prebuilt AI base 7 times so you can beat the campaign

Core gameplay itself is fun, barring the gookclick, and the sound and visual design are great, but that level design really sucked. Haven't played 2.

>>16703350

Pushing the void into all their stuff reminds me a lot of Games Workshop. For reasons I just cannot understand they have a massive boner for Chaos, even though they're raving lunatics and idiots who sell their souls for peanuts to divine cancerous tumors that are barely actual characters. It just doesn't occur to them that Chaos fans don't actually like all their characters to be incomprehensible.

>>16703363

Chaos, as a faction, has an interesting history with the a good portion of the other factions. They also have a variety of ways they operate and ways that their enemies deal with them; you have cults and inquisitors, full blown chaos invasions and the response, etc. They have potential for a variety of plots with different protagonists and different types of threats. It is wasted almost every time. I think a fair few of their writers are just edge lords.

Honestly SC2 is the best its ever been in regards to the multiplayer. Besides the deathball a-move battles and other design flaws thats been there from the start.

Now when the starcraft team is a skeleton crew with 10-ish people and the higherups dont give a fuck anymore, they can do what they want.

>Gee guys what will we do now? The only deadline we have is a new co-op commander in 6 months.

<I know! Lets ask the community!

So here we are, at the end of SCs life and they finally start working with the prominent community members.

And I almost get the impression that the current team cares about smonkcraft, almost.

>>16703391

Since when has subtle anticonsumer shit like that ever stuck? You only ever hear about cut and run scams

>>16703388

>besides the fact that the game revolves around boring 1a deathballs, it's great!

What?

>>16703295

Check out ASL and KSL. It's still very popular in Korea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBzuhofHH10

What's the best unit and why is it the Immortal

>>16703255

I should add to this, the gameplay in StarCraft was all around pretty trash even without talking about UI. No naval forces. Air is a minor add-on to land instead of being a complete aspect of gameplay in its own right. Economy is static, not flux. No dynamic build force. No battlefield salvage. No actual artillery. No actual missile systems or counters. No radar/sonar. Weapon fire isn't simulated and magically passes through terrain, there's no difference between things like direct-fire lasers that are harder to dodge but more relief dependent vs shells that can be dodged but have a bit of an arc so they are less relief dependent. The list goes on but the point is the gameplay sucks. Gameplay is not why StarCraft was a success.

StarCraft was a massive success in the west because it had superb atmosphere, art direction, sound effects, music, etc. It was shitty gameplay surrounded by fantastic everything else. Even the story was fairly good, by RTS standards. It was a huge hit in the west as a result, and its popularity in the west paired with gameplay that revolved mostly around supplementing a crappy UI rather than strategic thought made it catch on in Korea and eventually become their e-sports game of choice.

>>16702932 (OP)

>>16703526

>Gameplay is not why StarCraft was a success.

Since when do any of those things you mentioned matter in an RTS?

>>16703498

Why is Thanos wearing sunglasses?

>>16703526

>that list of supposed improvements

None of those things would fit in a fast-paced RTS.

>>16703535

>>16703544

Since it's Real Time Strategy, not Real Time Tactics.

>>16703350

Is this cap true? I really hope it is, it's amusing enough as it is and it promises more.

>>16703718

It's as true as anything posted on a chan without proof ever is, which is to say, it might be. But it does match up with other known information and reasonable speculation.

Since Blizzard games don't display any sort of player metrics, it's hard to say for sure how large their playerbase is. Twitch may not be the best arbiter, but it does show some level of player engagement and public sentiment. Currently, without tournaments or WoW's world first races (one of which is going on now), Blizzard's games aren't anywhere near their competition. It's the middle of the day on a Thursday, to be fair, but here's the current numbers:

>WoW: 127k (only inflated so high due to the world's first race going on; normal numbers are around 20k)

>Overmeme: 18.2k

>Hearthstone: 13.3k

>SC2: 4k

>HotS: 2k

>Diablo 3: 592

For reference, Old School Runescape has 5.8k viewers, meaning that half of Blizzard's lineup is getting beaten by a decade-old version of a browser MMO.

Then you have the general reactions to different aspects of Blizzard's business. WoW's latest expansion had an absolutely abysmal reaction to it (it was actually the expansion that finally got me to kick the habit, and I've been clean for about a year now), and there was the whole "don't you have phones?" incident that practically spat in the face of every Diablo fan. There's still plenty of fans/drones who will continue to praise the company, but I have a feeling that there's an increasing segment that doesn't feel that Blizzard is making anything good anymore. I dunno if Hearthstone truly is in a death spiral, but I wouldn't be surprised; the game's about to launch its sixteenth expansion, but only five of these will be able to be used in the standard format, so anyone who's been playing for a long time has a boatload of cards that they can't use in the format most are going to be playing. And while I don't spend much time on normie-related areas of the internet, I don't feel like Overmeme has anywhere near the hype that it used to, and it feels as though the hero shooter genre's time has already come and gone. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of those abandoned projects was a battle royale that Blizzard was just too late to the party for, again.

At any rate, whether it's real or not, it sure does make for a good story. I for one will keep a copy saved and pay attention to any upcoming Blizzard news; if anything lines up with what we see there, then the rest has an increasingly good chance of being true.

>>16704022

>WoW: 127k (only inflated so high due to the world's first race going on; normal numbers are around 20k)

Yeah that is a pitifully small when I compare it to the server numbers that had wait ques before quitting a long time ago, so I cant even tell if thats good or bad. My intuition tells me its actually really terrible though.

>>16703544

Those are things in SupCom, at the least.

>>16704022

>Diablo 3: 592

That number is still too high. That game was the blandest ARPG I've ever played.

How do I not suck dick at RTS games?

>play AoE

>literally all I am capable of doing is making a big enough army to throw at the enemy

>play DoW

>same shit, can only play IG or Orkz

>play empire earth

>same shit

>CnC

>same

It died because no one wants to play it anymore.

>>16702932 (OP)

>but I've heard people say that it was brood war.

I'd like to know what bumfuck bizarro land you were passing through where people think Starcraft died with Brood War. That was the game's heigh; even after II came out BW continued to soldier along.

>>16702947

This is a futa image, isn't it?

Somehow I just know.

>>16703228

No, I just don't want to drive a car while holding all its pieces together with strings attached to my body so it won't break down in the middle of the road. That's what gookclickcraft is in terms of gameplay.

>>16704230

>Draenei

What do you think?

>>16703313

Tassadar's ghost was actually Amon's trickery to bamboozle Zeratul.

>>16704374

With ideas like that, I guarantee you have "friends" that fucking hate your guts, and you're completely oblivious to it.

>>16704396

what?

In my eyes it died with SC2, not for any direct gameplay reasons, but because the game has none of the visual charm or audio quality of the first game.

It looks and sounds much less cool and thus I don't like playing with any of the units.

>>16703054

>brood war is apparently more popular than it's been in awhile now because of remastered

Anyone has a link to a cracked Remastered version,I can't find any on TPB or Skidrow?

>>16704022

Most of the Brood War streams are on afreeca.tv, not twitch. The combined numbers sometimes break 20k, but usually a bit less. Even in Worst Korea, where BW is still going strong, games like LoL and overmeme are considered 'hip' and more popular.

>>16704757

The only thing remastered gives you is a graphics update and bnet ladder play. You can still play normally with non-remastered (which is free), and use iccup for ladder. The remastered and non-remastered players still play together on the same server and in the same games, it's not like a split. Couldn't find any torrents of it either, for what it's worth.

>>16704793

Well, widescreen support is a big upgrade with the remastered version. Black bars around the edges are a real pain.

>>16704163

Scout and learn how to multitask

Also learn about all of the units in your roosters, what they do and how to use and micro them, and what you should prioritize when building stuff.

If you're really good at multitasking you can even beat higher APM gook autists, unless you're playing Gookcraftclicker.

So yeah, use your units to scout around and keep map control, turtling is death, much moreso in Relic titles unless you're the Brits or the Necrons

>>16704163

If you can handle the mouse and keyboard well and reach 200 apm, which is very doable for the average person, you can be great at any RTS. To not be slow is essential, really.

>>16704396

He is absolutely right and you being surrounded by plebs is not uncommon.

The fact that people gobbled stuff like >>16704374

is amazing in itself. Either the older players simply forgot, went along with it to fit in or were simply too few and swallowed in a tide of new players just eager to get into the game.

>>16704920

>were simply too few and swallowed in a tide of new players just eager to get into the game.

Yep.

>Battle.net II's Facebook integration for SC2

>massive scale doxing of people's real names in online profiles

>names that were private as a part of signing up to blizzard's shit

(((Activision Blizzard))) had to move away from WH40k for legal reasons, so that meant they had to rewrite, retcon or otherwise ignore much of SC1, for SC2.

keep deleting my posts, kike

>>16703047

Yes because it already existed under starcraft, which is where it gets its name from, Aeon of Strife being said starcraft map.

It would eventually have made its way through an other game/engine.

If dota hadn't been a W3 mod, I could totally see it become a Unity game later down the road instead.

>>16703225

>When SC2 came out. Too many hard counter units. Played more like WC3 than SCBW.

Oh god, this. This shit is infuriating.

>>16703350

>diablo immortal is hated by the people so our shareholders freak out, what do we do?

>turn it into a fantasy (sic) shooter!

Diablo. Fantasy. WTF.

>diablo was a good guy all along

When your trump derangement syndrome turns you literally evil.

>BC and wrath are in the works as part of the classic

Way to miss the point, lmao. Man they really do hate pleasing their audience, it's a pathology at this point.

>>16709233

Did you ever play Aeon of Strife? Because, in spite of people claiming it's the foundation of ASSFAGGOTS, it really wasn't that close. It had three lanes, and you controlled a single unit which got stronger as you got more kills, but it was vs AI and there were many differences between it and DotA.

>>16702932 (OP)

Broodwar was the shit. Personally i just got bored of it.

>>16709233

Meh blizzard died after warcraft 3. That was the end. Everything before that was good. Everything after was shit. WoW killed blizzard honestly. I hate WoW for this.

>>16704866

>apm

You need to learn how to efficiently make your actions as quick as possible and get them down to muscle memory, apm is a meme.

SC2 was so shit, it soured SC1 for the majority of players too. Blizzard basically killed it themselves.

>>16710858

Of course I played it. Dota has 3 lanes too, so I'm not sure how the number of lanes can be an argument; dota also has AI and the "many differences" are mostly due to editor limitations at the time.

It only makes sense for an ancestor to not have all the neat features of its descendant. But if you want to say Aeon of strife isn't the foundation of "Aeon of strife Style Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides", you're free to do so; I can't stop you if you're not within arms' reach.

>that husky commentary

The memories. Basically blizzard broke the game by making zerg overpowered. I stopped following the pro scene when every match was an infestors army against everything.

>>16728616

>iNcontroL is fucking dead.

>Cause of death, Thrombosis

>Tiny blood clot killed this magnificent fat bastard

RIP

>>16728616

> iNcontroL is fucking dead.

incholesterol

>>16728616

who?

>>16740582

American Starcraft pro who played with EG

he was really fucking fat and not that good at the game

Blizzard has always had a bad habit of being able to competently build a world, but once done they don't know what to do with it.

It's why every WoW expansion is either a new or returning threat, without ever truly moving forward. Or why Diablo can keep returning because the Black Soulstone always gets found and corrupts someone.

Starcraft was a victim of this because they established the Humans, Protoss, and Zerg but really had no idea what to do with after that except make them all retarded in order to keep the conflict going for more games.

>>16740856

>Starcraft was a victim of this because they established the Humans, Protoss, and Zerg but really had no idea what to do with after that

Don't the continuously reference the setting of the story being only one sector in space anyway? What about the other sectors?

>>16702932 (OP)

(((the e-sports community)))

>>16740859

They can't because, in sc2 they made the actions that happened in a single sector the locus of the universe. The nature of "essence" and zel naga shit means that the fate of the entire universe rested on two interstellar species that just so happened to be adjacent to each other.

>>16740859

>>16740988

If they included Holy TerraEarth it would be too much like wh40k.

>>16740988

>>16740997

From what I remember Abathur was brewing up some suspicious shit after SC2. They could just have him start a new Zerg civil war against the primal Zerg over Hydralisk copyright. Tychus is also alive as a cyborg, so there's a revenge plot available. With Jimmy and his dumbass waifu gone, there's some room for new people.

Starcraft II ended, let it ends on a fucking good notes before Blizzard ruins it even further.

The ancient shit in SCII was top fucking cringe btw, look like a straight out copy of Mass Effect.

>>16741248

Wasn't the xel'naga/duran shit part of the story since the first game anyways