bbd604 No.16191447
This is not limited to the buttons but I think it would be interesting to discuss, what's with the X/O thing on Playstation games? is the X button just "cooler" or something for the west? just recently I found out Devil May Cry 1 on PS2 has X as the jump button in the Japanese version, when playing the trilogy on the original system it becomes a nightmare if you specially like DMC1.
13753b No.16191452
I don't know waht this thread is about and I don't care.
e8fbcf No.16191454
Special snowflake bullshit, same crap with metric vs imperial system
6ff855 No.16191457
I've talked with Andy Gavin about this, it's because circle was red.
That's literally it.
341eec No.16191471
Square=confirm x=cancel is superior.
bbd604 No.16191477
>>16191452
In certain games button mapping was changed partially or completely depending on the region, a relatively less known was the old Resident Evil games where circle was for action and x was for sprinting, for the sake of an argument, people are used to having the left face button reserved for "shooting" and other actions, the bottom one for jumping more so than others and usually the right one for interactions, this was mostly established during the SNES days.
>>16191471
I would be OK with it as long as it was consistent across all regions.
9dcc82 No.16191518
I always found it weird that X, the shaped that looks like striking something through, is supposed to be the confirm button.
>>16191471
That would make sense as well, plus the position of the buttons would be more natural since the thumb angles inwards. Pic related.
5066e5 No.16191542
>>16191447
O = true, X = false is a japanese cultural thing that Sony wasn't sure if westerners would understand, so before the PlayStation launched in the west they did a focus test to see what people thought. More of the tested people assumed the X button was the confirm button than O (maybe because it's the closest of the face buttons when you're looking at the controller sitting on a table), so based on that one focus test Sony decided to mandate that X would be the confirm button in the west. 20-odd years later we're stuck with this retarded decision.
bbd604 No.16191575
>>16191518
That reminds me of the NGC's face button sizes and positioning.
75406e No.16191594
>>16191447
You want a real conspiracy?
Select and Reset button have been on nearly every console yet have 0 use since the original NES.
bbd604 No.16191601
>>16191594
I remember that, a few games forced "select" to cycle between options like 1 or 2 players but most of the time the d-pad was used for that, the reset button barely saw any use other than the button you push when it looks like the console is kicking the bucket.
f67647 No.16191621
>>16191542
The way most people hold a controller, the thumb rests on the X button most often, therefore it would make sense from a purely mechanical sense.
I mean, its not like the right thumbstick is used for anything other than camera control 90% of the time anyway.
877867 No.16191625
>>16191447
I always considered the X button the reflex button. X is for things like jump, run, or cancel. O becomes the commitment button for consequential actions. □ is the primary action button. ∆ is the special button being the hardest to reach of the 4 or alternate action button because it is the easiest to switch from □ to ∆ and vice versa.
5066e5 No.16191628
>>16191518
That's retarded. A & B are placed so that you can rock your thumb back and forth to press either button. Think about playing a 2D Mario game: you hold your thumb down on B to run, and rock it to press A to jump while still running. Making Y & B the standard buttons would be less comfortable and flexible in the long run. With A & B, you can do the opposite, holding down A and rocking to B, if you had to. Holding B and rocking Y kinda works, but try holding Y and rocking B with your joint. Feels awkward as hell.
03c4a7 No.16191639
>>16191628
>he can't do all three with ease
460915 No.16191656
>>16191518
>I always found it weird that X, the shaped that looks like striking something through, is supposed to be the confirm button.
But doesn't it make perfect sense? Say, if you have to select an item or more from a list, you draw an X inside the little box next to it. So it means: X = what you want.
75406e No.16191676
>>16191601
>the reset button barely saw any use other than the button you push when it looks like the console is kicking the bucket.
A reset button today is literally an on/off switch on a spring, it existed because some old consoles as an emergency system memory purge and a proper "reset command" sending button to avoid to stress the system with a power cut as old electronics really didn't like that.
Select was used to select players as on the famicon as the buttons input were hardwired for one function only meaning they could only be recognized by a game for ONE thing, which ended with the less cheap international version of the NES.
966b6f No.16191699
>>16191447
>that ffxv picture
Meanwhile, in KH3: You try to pick up an item and accidentally trigger a 35 second long elaborate sequence where you summon a magical horse carousel
What the fuck were they thinking
bbd604 No.16191712
>>16191699
I only played BBS and I can't just play like in any other game where square would be my melee attack or maybe triangle because I play DMC and square could be shot so I can map magic there, and then not knowing what to press when I want to interact seamlessly.
5066e5 No.16191722
>>16191621
See >>16191628
You're "supposed" to rest your thumb in between X & O (or B & A) so that it's easy to press either with little thumb movement. Making X confirm and O cancel doesn't change that.
Back with the NES/Famicom, whose buttons were laid out horizontally, it made sense for the confirm button to be the rightmost one rather than the one in the "middle" of the controller. Then they rotated it for the SNES's diamond arrangement. Sony's engineers placed O and X specifically to mimic the SNES's A and B placement. Anyone who had played games back then would have assumed the PlayStation would have been set up like a SNES, so Sony of America must have focus tested with people that had never played games before, which to be fair wasn't in and of itself a bad idea since they were trying to market to normalfags.
The one controller I know of that worked the way >>16191518 wants is the N64's trident, and that's usually regarded as one of the worst or at least most unusual controllers in a popular/relevant console.
>>16191639
It's slightly more awkward and there's more movement involved so I can guess it would cause a stress injury more quickly.
>>16191656
Maybe my mind was tainted by Japanese video games as a kid but marking X in boxes never made any sense to me. I checked ✔ boxes instead.
5066e5 No.16191756
>>16191594
>>16191601
>>16191676
There's no technical reason for it at all, they could have easily used a now standard dpad scheme on the main menu. But thinking about it, I realized that they must have thought it would be easier for new players to understand if each button only has one purpose in a game. You read the manual and just see that the dpad moves the guy around, instead of having to explain the game state vs. the menu state to the player. It sounds retarded but it must have been a concern at the time when most people had never played a video game before.
3947fb No.16191772
>>16191628
>Think about playing a 2D Mario game: you hold your thumb down on B to run, and rock it to press A to jump while still running
Only on the NES where you have no choice. In SNES onwards it's much more comfortable to hold the tip of your thumb on Y to run and press B with your joint to jump.
5066e5 No.16191813
>>16191772
That's just like, your opinion, man.
Of course mine is an opinion too but I guess more people agree with me since pretty much every console except the N64 has the select and cancel buttons laid out the way I like, even if Sony of America was retarded and swapped which was which.
3947fb No.16191829
>>16191813
I'm not talking about select/cancel, just what makes more sense during gameplay. In most games jump is B/X while attack is Y/□. Cancel is used infrequently enough that finger placement doesn't really matter.
5fac89 No.16191849
On the NES, I just rotated my hand slightly to hold the buttons the same way as Y and B here >>16191518 - my thumb over B, and joint over A. So that I can hold run with the tip of my thumb and press down farther to jump. I do the same with say, Wii U or Switch games that use X and A. I don't think I could press two horizontally adjacent buttons simultaneously with my thumb. I actually hadn't even considered that to be possible, I just sort of assumed nips held the Famicom controller the same way I did, and played with X and A from the Super Famicom onwards instead of Y and B. In emulators I usually remap "A and B" controls on a diamond shape to be more comfortable for me, generally Y and B. Incidentally, I love the layout of the N64 and Gamecube controllers, and had no issue with Playstation games where X was the select button. Since I've played a lot of Japanese games though, it never bothered me when noticing the controls were swapped, I would just think, "shit, wrong button," and press the correct one and adjust my hand and thumb's position if needed.
8897ad No.16191861
Having circle as confirm is better because it is the less natural place for your thumb to be, meaning you have to put in effort and really confirm the action. With confirm on x you might just hit it without thinking and confirm something you didn't want to.
5066e5 No.16191880
>>16191829
Ah. Well Y/X would still allow you to rock left and right. A/B is still superior to me because rocking the tip of my thumb for less frequent inputs feels less awkward than using the joint.
>Cancel is used infrequently enough that finger placement doesn't really matter.
Not in menu-heavy games.
>>16191849
What? Your NES scheme seems completely retarded. Do you have tiny girl hands or something? The Famicom controller was literally designed for little Japanese kid hands and afaik they had no problem using the thumb for both buttons.
The GameCube's layout was indeed great though. Very intuitive, you can tell just by looking at it what confirms, cancels, and is auxiliary.
624a20 No.16191892
The real question is why Mario games still make you press a button to run when there's almost no reason to ever walk.
43229e No.16191899
>>16191722
This anon (and his dubs) has it right.
Check mark means yes, X means no/wrong/cancel.
Why Sony of America felt the need to make the buttons backwards is absolutely baffling, especially given that they didn't start out that way, even in the US. The game that for many people put them on the map (and was Baby's First JRPG for a whole generation), FFVII, has the buttons the right way around. Making it extra weird that they later on decided to switch the buttons.
I'm guessing some chad told Sony that in America no means yes, and they misunderstood.
(Also, a special double fuck you to Microsoft for creating the Xbox controllers and giving it the same button names as the SNES, but putting them in the wrong places. Now PC gaming is forever tainted by games prompting you to "push Y" when they mean X/triangle.)
3947fb No.16191915
>>16191899
>Also, a special double fuck you to Microsoft for creating the Xbox controllers and giving it the same button names as the SNES, but putting them in the wrong places.
Yeah, fuck that. After using both Nintendo and Xbox controllers so often I now get so confused which button is which. Fucks me up when there's a QTE in a non-Playstation game.
b1bd4d No.16191971
>>16191899
Dreamcast has the same layout.
66ee17 No.16192001
>>16191861
It would be even better if there were buttons specifically for menu navigation.
83cfc1 No.16192017
>>16191594
Select button on Nintendo handhelds is just an artifact from the GB basing it's buttons off the NES.
>GBA used it because it was backward compatible with GB/GBC
>Then NDS is backward compatible in single player mode for GBA games
>Finally 3DS is backward compatible for NDS games.
With Nintendo's consoles, it that weird combo of the NES VC on the Wii using the + and - buttons as Start and Select and then returning as labels (+ Start and - Select) on the Wii U Gamepad.
5fac89 No.16192317
>>16191880
>Do you have tiny girl hands or something?
Maybe I'm retarded or my hands are just fucked up, because I have trouble making precise movements with them. For instance they tremble when I write. I'm also the autist that occasionally complains in mouse threads about modern mice being too small and uncomfortable to hold.
03c4a7 No.16192397
>>16192317
You know there are different size mouses right?
aa8a42 No.16192472
>>16191899
>(Also, a special double fuck you to Microsoft for creating the Xbox controllers and giving it the same button names as the SNES, but putting them in the wrong places. Now PC gaming is forever tainted by games prompting you to "push Y" when they mean X/triangle.)
I always thought it was to avoid a possible copyright infringement from Nintendo.
3947fb No.16192493
>>16192472
They could have at least used something other than those exact letters.
3947fb No.16192496
>>16192493
I mean even just the colors by themselves would do. Yellow/blue/red/green button.
5cfed1 No.16192571
>>16191518
>have large hands
>thumb is wide enough that I can rock between the two
>same with the other two above
33969f No.16192590
> stupid regional gimmicks
Most people probably know here by now, but the release versions of Nier. In Japan there were two versions: Nier Gestalt and Nier Replicant. They are mostly identical except for the protagonist's age. In Gestalt he is a burly middle aged man taking care of his sick daughter and in Replicant a teenager/young man taking care of his younger sister. Gestalt was released exclusively for the Xbox 360 and Replicant exclusively for the PS3. Apparently the reason behind this was some suit's bright idea to target each consumer market closer as the idea was younger men used the PS3 and older men used the Xbox in Japan. However, when Nier was released for Western audiences we got the Gestalt version only, and it was simply titled "NieR". The choice of releasing the "Father Nier" Gestalt version is likely due to the fact that only Asian markets like bishonen characters whereas Western consumers strongly prefer male characters that are actually masculine.
A flipside of this scenario would be the relatively late in development inclusion of the effeminate Vaan in FFXII when the masculine, bearded Balthier was the original intended main character. Suits were worried that the large female fraction of Final Fantasy fans would be turned off by such a "yanky" protagonist.
03c4a7 No.16192601
>>16192590
>A flipside of this scenario would be the relatively late in development inclusion of the effeminate Vaan in FFXII when the masculine, bearded Balthier was the original intended main character. Suits were worried that the large female fraction of Final Fantasy fans would be turned off by such a "yanky" protagonist.
I'm still mad about this
33969f No.16192602
>>16192590
> Balthier
My mistake, I meant Basch
fcc88c No.16192618
>>16191722
>Maybe my mind was tainted by Japanese video games as a kid but marking X in boxes never made any sense to me. I checked ✔ boxes instead
I took too many tests in school. I fucking fill them in like scantron circles.
ce67cd No.16192659
>>16191542
And this applies to exams, too. If you've seen anime in school settings, you probably came across circled answers and crossed or 'ticked' answers.
In Japan, the circled answer is correct, whereas the X marked one is incorrect. This is the same as in the PS controller setting: O (maru, correct/true), X (batsu, incorrect/false).
In other places however, a right answer is usually ticked (so it's "half an X" of sorts), and bad answers are marked with a full X (sometimes) or instead circled, normally right over the wrong letter/sign/calculation or whatever, since the teacher intends to point out the exact part where the answer was 'wrong'.
aa8a42 No.16192691
>>16192590
Another explanation that I heard is the different relationship between a girl and her father/brother in America and Japan. In Japan, the father is mostly working and rarely home, so the brother and sister have to work together to take care of themselves, and the brother will naturally become the protector of the sister. In America, fathers do spend a lot of time with their daughters, protecting her from other men(daddy's little girl) while the brother is just some asshole that constantly teases her, and will fight her for daddy's inheritance.
It would explain why games with father/daughter are extremely popular at least here n the west, Last of Us, Walking Dead, whereas in Japanese games and anme, it's mostly the imouto and her aniki.
3947fb No.16192695
>>16192590
I think Yoko Taro considers the brother to be canon, but I like the father better.
d144e3 No.16192956
>>16192590
Balthier would have actually been the best of both worlds.
>classy, bold pirate that "westerners" can like
>refined and delicate enough for japanese kids to like
>actually plays a major role in the story rather than just being some orphan that tags along sometimes
>also doesn't spend the entire intro Locked♂In♂Bondage
9dcc82 No.16193049
>>16191628
> Making Y & B the standard buttons would be less comfortable and flexible in the long run
That is exactly how Super Mario World on the SNES was controlled, and it was good.
>>16191722
>The one controller I know of that worked the way >>16191518 wants is the N64's trident, and that's usually regarded as one of the worst or at least most unusual controllers in a popular/relevant console.
That's because it was designed for three-handed mutants, not because of the two face buttons.
>>16192571
I can do it as well, but I'm a grown-up man. Nintendo is supposed to be for children, isn't it?
>>16192608
That's so fucking retarded. It's as if someone made a weeb moe-blob visual novel, then asked me if I would play a game with moe-blobs, I said "no way", and then they concluded "aha, so if we make a non-moe weeb visual novel it means anon will buy it". I'm still not going to buy a weeb visual novel and all they have achieved was piss off their existing customers.
0aed56 No.16193215
Western soyony controls are retarded, I always change controls on emulators so I can accept with the button on the right side
Sure, X is what you check boxes on tests at school but gamepad is not a fucking test, when you have O and X then O means confirmation and X means something wrong, it's just logic
0aed56 No.16193225
>>16192590
it wasn't balthier, basch was supposed to be the protagonist
33caca No.16193237
>>16193215
Ignore the X and O shapes, O is red. Red means no, bad. I admit that sort of breaks down with X which is Blue (instead of green which is triangle). Triangle is a bitch to press all the time though and Blue definitely doesn't mean "no".
a01c79 No.16193259
>>16193049
>I'm still not going to buy a weeb visual novel and all they have achieved was piss off their existing customers.
Yeah, I have no idea why developers keep doing this. It's like Aesop's fable of the dog and it's reflection.
9dcc82 No.16193362
>>16193259
I remember when it was revealed that the Resident Evil games for the Wii were going to be lightgun shooters the developers justified it by saying that Wii gamers are not used to complicated controls. As if the reason grandmas and little girls don't play zombie survival horror games is because of the controls.
a32fab No.16193425
I'm struggling to think of really good examples, but it's weird that in Symphony of the Night, in the English versions after the intro boss fight, there's a text scroll with backstory. In the Japanese versions the text is in English but there's also a voice-over telling the story in Japanese. Japanese versions also have those two gimmick variants to the fairy and demon familiars, the former if high enough level will sing when Alucard is resting (vid 1). This may have been re-introduces in the Dracula X Chronicles port not sure though (vid #2).
>>16191477
I've naturally adjusted to the O/X difference given I play varied regions so often.
>>16192590
What's especially fun with this one is is Drakengard 3's got 6 DLC costumes, two each from the previous games. For the NIER ones you get Kainé and girly-man NIER and that's true across all regions. I mean manly NIER wouldn't really fit Zero but still.
000000 No.16193453
>>16191594
Castlevania 3 uses Select to change between characters any time during stages.
ce67cd No.16193466
>>16191899
You do realize that Xbox (which is basically a Dreamcast 2 of sorts) copied the DC button layout, right? Originally the Xbox was even going to support the VMU, hence the HUGE duke controller shape.
Also, said layout is basically the Saturn (or Genesis 6-button) layout, slightly rotated to be positioned like the SNES and with C and Z gone.
33caca No.16193473
>>16193362
I think you might be confusing "lightgun shooters" with "rail shooters". Using the wii pointer to aim is actually good design. While it may or may not be "better" than regular controls, that's more or less what the Wii is for and some games did it pretty well (including I think one Resident Evil). Taking away the movement controls (putting the player "on rails") and making the game JUST the shooting however is trash, which I know a lot of Wii games did, though I'm not enough of an RE fan to know if those specifically did.
a382b5 No.16193523
2050f6 No.16193652
>>16191628
You're full of shit. A&B is gay. Y&B is where it's at.
aa8a42 No.16193871
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
How about a scene that is censored in both Japanese and English version, but in different places.
Remember Left is American, Right is Japanese, in case you get confursed.
d9ce94 No.16193893
>>16191447
>This is not limited to the buttons but I think it would be interesting to discuss, what's with the X/O thing on Playstation games? is the X button just "cooler" or something for the west?
Lots of SNES games use the B button as confirm and other actions that would have been the A Button on NES, due to its placement. A still being confirm in some games is pretty much a legacy from the NES, but even Super Mario All-Stars gives you the option to choose your control scheme between one where "A" and "B" do the same as on NES, based on their letters, and one where "B" does what "A" did on NES because of its placement.
Still, PS games changing it was always stupid. It takes two seconds to get used to either way. But changing it makes it harder if you ever play the other version.
66957c No.16193978
>>>/v/16191452
>I don't know waht this thread is about and I don't care.
Nice try faggot
polite sage
a54811 No.16193999
>>16193978
There's no such thing as a polite sage you new fag
>inb4 muh nips
The nips sage'd Pearl Harbor
9dcc82 No.16194024
>>16193473
>I think you might be confusing "lightgun shooters" with "rail shooters".
Sorry, I meant rail shooter of course. The Wii pointer is great for shooting games and the separate design of remote and the joystick makes it the closest thing to mouse and keyboard on a console.
b5a07d No.16194129
>>16191542
>O = true, X = false is a japanese cultural thing
This is the important answer. In the US, we see red circles as a bad thing. Red circles on papers signify the circled piece is wrong. Red circles are on signs like no smoking, or do not enter. X's are also normally seen as barring something, as you'd see things being X'ed out all of the time. Thus, the meaning of it was lost to other cultures.
The buttons were meaningless to the west in terms of symbols. Square was supposed to be a menu button, and triangle was supposed to be a viewpoint/camera toggle (in the world of early 3d games). This sort of thing is uncommon knowledge today, but back in the day, nobody really understood, sans for the people who read magazines like GamePro that eventually pointed out the fact that the X/O buttons were a japanese culture thing. But that didn't really happen until later in the Playstation's life.
034c97 No.16194158
7bd5b4 No.16195766
>>16192608
This is why marketing and focus groups generate very poor ideas when considered in isolation.
>small sample of people
>no connection to product
>existing, connected sample group disregarded
>product altered to suit alien niche opinion
This is rather unscientific, in pretty much every way from data collection to application of wonky idea, they might have their analysis right but they looked in the wrong direction.
89adc4 No.16195822
>console gamers
why not have a button for each finger?
52976f No.16195831
>>16191452
if you don't care, why are you posting here?
fuck off THQ nigger
b24c2e No.16195833
>>16195822
WHY do you need a button for each finger? What games actually need the player to press more than 6 buttons at any time?
a32fab No.16196672
>>16194129
X is occasionally used negatively in Japanese stuff too.
>>16195766
I'll twist that a bit because doing that is effectively suiting a game to the broadest possible tastes. And sadly it is pretty profitable compared to focusing on a dedicated niche.
fac3cc No.16196695
>he can't adapt
>instead he wants others to change to fit his retarded mindset
>all games should use the same controls
go back to tumblr or reddit you fucking mongrel
a32fab No.16196798
>>16196695
Who came in your popcorn? It's not an unreasonable question, and when it comes to content changes or "localization" regional variations suck.