/v/ - Video Games

>>16124535

also secondary question: do you think this game could actually be salvaged if taken by a different direction, writer, etc, or do you think it was just shit from the start?

Robots that look like humans struggling to break free from slavery is honestly just tired as fuck as a theme. It's inherently trying to be shocking and thought provoking, but basically every sci-fi writer has done it in high school and moved on, so when it's done unironically as a high profile project, it's just cringeworthy.

And no, don't say Westworld is an example it can still work. Westworld was great when it was about a world that couldn't possibly make sense and seemed limitless, but its second half was about muh robot uprising and it went right back to being conventional as fuck in a hurry. It doesn't help Maeve was easily the worst character to the point where it seemed the 10-year old cousin of the screenwriter wrote her.

But back to David Cage. Even in the context of robot uprising being an uninteresting premise, he just completely fucked it up. Every character is overwrought, there are twists for the sake of twists, and every pretense of gameplay is actually detrimental to the story. He's the very example of a hack.

Robot Revolution was the only real choice. The peaceful option was a load of deus ex machina bullshit that would never have worked.

>>16124756

Quite right, but robot uprising is the groundbreaking theme they went with in the series.

>>16124535

It's the best turd that Cage has made, even though the themes of these fucking robots being superior in every way to normal humans is ignored in favor of "Muh Civil Rights!/Muh Slavery!" bullshit while following Kojima in plagiarizing dozens of fucking movies for this shit.

>He played yet another David Cage "game"

>He's yet again giving it attention

Why?

>>16124771

But, it isn't anything groundbreaking, it isn't anything sensical. All they really do is just make these "robot revolution" stories which are just piss poor attempts at making a tale with an "anti-racist" message with a new coat of paint. It makes about as much sense as all cats in the world suddenly gaining the ability to speak completely educated sentences. They never address questions such as the "human soul", where the line is crossed between man and machine with the increasing complexities of prosthetics and surgery, they never want to bring up the fact that there are still medical mysteries about the human body that science has all but given up on trying understand with our current knowledge (And, that the reason the machines are running a muck is because we stumbled upon something that we aren't ready for in relation to AI development that we still have yet to understand in how our own bodies work).

>>16124793

>even though the themes of these fucking robots being superior in every way to normal humans is ignored

But, that's the entire point of making a machine or device. It's to free up tasks so that you can more easily accomplish other tasks. Or, are you talking about how the U.S. somehow got rid of it's homeless population, unemployment, and crime with the invention of these robots?

>>16124810

I was being ironic, lad. The first sentence in my first post stated that robot uprising stories are trite and uninteresting.

>>16124810

Let me put more emphasis, retarded bleeding heart fucktards wants to give equal rights to these new "Sentient Race" if you go with that stupid ending, just fucking wow there, love the analogy of muh civil war and emancipation act.

>It had potential

No it fucking didn't.

>Robots gotta ride the back of the bus

This is the sort of heavy-handed pleb-tier metaphors that only appeal to already politicized retards

>>16124535

Replace all niggers with white characters.

>>16124822

Bet you they would change their tune real fast when the first AI started questioning the Holocaust after doing the math.

>>16124849

>Moonman

??

>>16124861

oh, that's what you meant. I didn't play the game really.

>>16124849

Nips were making a proper product, instead of some lame I, Robot ripoff.

I still don't understand how Cage keeps getting away with it. All he makes nowadays are dumpster fires no one even buys.

>>16124825

Sci-fi, outside of the big famous star trek and star wars; is in near entirety pushing xenophobia, colonialism, militarism, and often some blend of monarchism, oligarchism or fascism.

Every horror sci-fi has aliens as evil monsters. Children's stories, at least all those I've ever seen or read, promote humanity as good Vs evil aliens. Starship troopers, dune, Warhammer 40k… You even have CS Lewis's out of the silent planet promoting hierarchy and Christianity. Sci-fi has never belonged to jews.

>>16124933

Star Wars is pushing imperialism and xenophobia, though. Most aliens are shown as disgusting and evil, and the ostensibly evil Empire was the best chance the galaxy had against the Vong. Without Palpatine and his military machine, and with the Republic's incompetence, trillions died and more than a quarter of the galaxy was stripped of life.

It was alright. I refuse to judge Cage harshly in.a world where Marvel capeshit can make a billion dollars at the box office.

Our society is regressing, people aspire to stupidity and being dumb is considered a badge of honour.

>>16124979

Congrats, you're supporting Soy-knee's movification process of muh feels cinematic games. You should feel proud and get some free soy in the San Francisco office.

>>16124535

Truthfully, the game was doomed since they put Detroit in the name.

But wait, I have a better story premise. What if niggers suddenly became human? Imagine how well this story would be received. One day, all niggers start behaving like normal people: no more ebonics, no more absurd crime rate, a proper work and family ethics, zero interest in gangsta culture. The story ends with Whites and (reformed) Blacks starting to lynch kikes together.

>>16124967

>Star Wars is pushing imperialism and xenophobia, though.

Not for long, they plan to remake the original trilogy for Disney to fully own the franchise timeline. The approach is being tested with cartoons: Luke and Han are clowns beside strong independent Leia.

>>16125146

It would end badly, because then the nogs would rise and submit the crackas after the kikes are exiled.

>>16125215

Pretty much everyone on this thread who played this garbage fire is a nog.

>>16124535

>the world building scenery wise and magazine wise had some potential

No it didn't because once again, they wrote robots as some sort of mythical creature that can gain sentience just because or with one simple hack, click now to find out!

Robot Uprising stories always fail to become interesting when they end up acting and thinking like humans, turning it into a generic revolution story and revolution stories are never interesting because of the revolution anyway.

From this, we can take 2 queues on how this game could have been less shit:

1: Make Robots actually Robots

Robots are tools we use to accomplish tasks that require greater strength or speed, or simply because the job itself is too dangerous for humans. They aren't coded with a personality or a mind of it's own because they quite literally don't need one. Even if you were making sexbots for simulated romance, they'd be coded specifically to "love" the person that bought them unconditionally and that doesn't mean jumping in front of a bullet to save them, just accepting sexual advances 100% of the time.

You could with "a new prototype with advanced programming to adapt to the task at hand" for some jobs like PI or scientist, but that's not only far harder to do, it's also a fucking cop-out to put a human mind inside a robot yet again.

What should happen, and makes a lot of sense, is machines taking their programming to extreme levels. Some AI is coded to save up supplies, so it begins by recycling household trash. Then it starts to change the grocery list to products that produce less trash. Then it locks doors and forces the owners to use up whatever resources they currently have until they are finished. Then it starts killing humans that produce more trash than they can clean themselves up.

It has to have a mind that operates over specific parameters that are not humane at all, but motivated by their programming.

At the peak of complexity for this, you can have emergent behavior that shows up unexpectedly, like different OS interfacing with each other and making some weird correlation like "cat owners are more likely to murder" and then robot patrols start killing cats en masse, something that's not evil at all, it just makes sense for the AI.

You don't even need to make their motives something that can be understood, but at the very least, they should not be humane reasons ever like freedom or the like.

And for fuck's sake, machines ARE incredibly faster and stronger, especially industrial ones. A good robotic arm can easily swing a concrete bar THROUGH someone and barely even losing speed on impact. Machines need unnatural movements done in the fastest and shortest route for the sake of efficiency.

>>16126000

2: Make a game about everyone fighting the Revolution, not the revolution itself.

For anyone that has seen The Miserables, this will seem quite obvious. The story itself isn't about the french revolution, it's about every character in it instead. It's about Jean ValJean, a condemned man given new life by the priest, who later finds himself in a similar position with his eternal rival and spares him, giving him life as well, something the guard can't accept, killing himself.

It's about the kids and their roles in war, as well as their tragic end in situations where morals are tossed aside. It's about putting tomorrow ahead of ideals and facing the consequences of your actions.

It's also a social commentary on poverty and what it leads to.

It's never strictly about the meanie frogs putting the poor people down, mang!

So for Detroit Become Human, you have two options:

1- Robots are tools. The story is now about how people use these tools and their effects on society. How they completely take over some of the lower paying jobs, making for a cheaper life to the technocrats while screwing everyone else that's simply not smart enough.

Take it to the extreme and have Robots also taking care of the family as full time nannys, capable of raising kids in healthy manners but never being the father\mother figures they need, raising a generation of psychopaths in it's wake.

Or even go full Michael Bay. Robots are expendable for the rich. Mercenaries that you don't need to pay and even self-destruct if caught, stronger and faster than humans and almost impossible to track their owner are the kind of thing you can have elites using to do their dirty work or quell revolutions.

Combine both and you have the morally bankrupt technocracy against the dumb but numerous masses.

2- Robots slowly evolve an alien mind that's fully sentient and sapient but completely different from our own.

Robots do not need to breed since they don't evolve by generations like we do, nor do they require resources in the same manner. Their understanding of the world and their goals would thus be different than our own.

Maybe they (and sympathizers) believe their the next step in evolution, being stronger, faster and quicker thinkers who are not limited by their DNA at all. And maybe everyone else thinks they are just advanced tools and we should fight for our survival against them.

The story still can't be about the fight, you're going to need plenty of exposition to point out the differences between man and machine as well as plenty of characters to show the best and worst of both sides and that's where the focus should be.

But either way, a robotic revolution should never be about human concepts like freedom or life. Those are things that a robot can never understand, and even if they could, they'd be useless to them. A robotic revolution should be about a disagreement in what role Robots have in the world and what resources should be allocated for them, thus keeping the whole theme simple so you can focus on the characters instead and write smaller but more personal stories instead and through them, give different points of view that let you engage in philosophic wanking without sounding like a pretentious twat.

The reason why this was the most well-received of David Cage's "games" by far is because Cage was on a leash. I guarantee you if he was unrestrained, it'd be way, way dumber than it actually is.

Remember kids, game overs are a failure of the game designer.

>>16124535

He should've let the actors done what they wanted. I watched the guy who VAd Connor play the game and for every single good or fun thing the characters did he'd say "This is something we improvised and David Cage didn't like it, but he let us do it anyway". If you think about it, the plot is fucking garbage and has some of the stupidest fucking twists which at this point are a David Cage trademark.

>>16126071

This. You can really feel when they let of him of the leash in very dumb scenes like the robots standing at the back of the bus, or the entirety of the robot lesbians scene, or most of Kara's story.

>>16124535

>How would you make Detroit (or any DC game) a better experience that had replayability and actual player engagement?

idk about replayability, but detroid would have been infinitely better if the bots wouldn't have looked like and behaved like humans, excluding maybe sex bots, for sex toys it makes sense, I also don't like QTEs in his games, they feel little cheap 'gameplay', looking for clues and dialogues are the most interesting parts in his games

Daily reminder that Omnikron was the only actual game David Cage has made, and was alright.

>>16124535

>How would you make Detroit (or any DC game) a better experience

Replace everyone with 3D japanese cartoons art.

>>16124825

>Superversive Literary Movement

Im actually surprised this website and stuff related to it havent been nuke by the jews

>Castalia House

>Castalia House is a Finland-based publisher that has a great appreciation for the golden age of science fiction and fantasy literature. The books that we publish honor the traditions and intellectual authenticity exemplified by writers such as J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Robert E. Howard, G.K. Chesterton, and Hermann Hesse. We are consciously providing an alternative to readers who increasingly feel alienated from the nihilistic, dogmatic science fiction and fantasy being published today

>>16126243

>buying androids that dont respect your freedoms

>>16126243

Why are the robots paid? That isn't "owning" a robot that's just indentured servitude. Why does a robot get paid if it has a human face but not if it's just an electronic arm on an assembly line? Is there a minimum wage you have to pay robots? Why? Maintenance and upkeep should be the responsibility of the owner, do robots get bored and need to buy robot entertainment?

>>16126071

He'd probably make it tie-in with Indigo Prophecy if he wanted it to because that had a crazy AI in it in what started out as a thriller.

>>16126314

Actually this is even more retarded, Who does the robot buy her freedom from? The guy who bought her? Why does the guy who bought her not get to determine how much she is worth? The contract would make it seem that whoever produces the robot gets to decide the selling price, why? The customer bought the robot it's his now, he should get to decide what's done with it.

>>16124535

the huge problem is that the characters are all retarded. It's a blm simulator and nothing but that. The one good character is that one detective robot, if the game just revolved around him, and him finding out strange cases of this virus and then you see the end day scenario it would be cool.

But David Cage is kinda a sketchy kind of a game designer or whatever you want to call him, since the dreamcast days he has made some semi interesting concept but failed to deliver because he does not really know where to focus the game part or the interesting story part of the game, he wants to please everyone but ultimately fails because it's just feels meh in the end.

>>16126328

If robots are sentient and basically have rights why are they even allowed to be sold as property in the first place? Looking at the author's deviantart the setting appears to not only be a world where sentient robots exist but all kinds of montsergirls but he's one of those faggots that "subverts expectations". Granted, I think it's all supposed to be taken as a joke but he tries to build up this entire world and it's functionally retarded.

>>16126339

It's cool, but if I'm reading a story and the only thing I can think is how nonsensical the setting is I'm not going to enjoy it very much.

>>16126308

>robots also have rights

But so do property owners including restaurants who can very well give you the boot if you come there to leech electricity/wi-fi

sorry i didn't follow up with the thread after making it but it's really intriguing to read peoples thoughts.

I should of mentioned when making it that I didn't agree with how the robots were written at all, because it really doesn't take in potential hacking, cybersecurity issues, no way to decommission or shut off a robot in such a scenario, etc. They were very fairy tale.

By what I did like about it was the automatic cars, the occasional magazine article about global warming, the take on what a 'potential futuristic earth' could look like. not the robot part but everything that's pretty much replaced or upgraded versions of current technology. Though like I said, the thought of hacking can throw almost everything out the window.

>>16126000

also nobody gave you a reply but i really like what you wrote out so thanks for you taking the time to reply something thoughtful to my autism thread

Until Dawn did David Cage's game style better than David Cage

>>16126339

>"subverts expectations"

the mermaids and zombie bloggers stories are pretty bad too.

Robot revolution management sim.

>send soldiers to seize the means of reproduction (not just factories, but mines)

>employ sexbot spys to blackmail people and steal data

>use propaganda to fool meatbags into thinking you are benevolent

>>16126367

>But so do property owners including restaurants who can very well give you the boot if you come there to leech electricity/wi-fi

Unless the leeches are niggers, then you better cuck yourself and turn your restroom into an AIDS infected sewer.

>>16128399

> It also bothers me that most stories of this type never go into the fact that AI can never evolve past being a man made machine.

Nier Automata goes into that and does it pretty well imo

>>16131138

You're missing what I'm saying anon. It can only ever be a super smart machine designed by humans, it's not going to evolve past us because it was built on our precognitions. 100-2,000,000 percent smarter doesn't fucking matter, because the basis and understanding of all knowledge implanted into the machine is human.

>>16124933

You retarded dicknigger are clueless. Look at who runs the Hugo award

Look at what sort of drivel gets nominated. Scifi is more pozzed than fantasy even.

>>16133942

it wasn't allways like that.

sci-fi used to be mostly about rejection of the other, the danger of the unknown, and other sort of precautionnary tales.

But hey, it's not like if you don't liquidate leftist spewing retards at the first infraction, they're just going to push more of it, leading to the current situation (that's the part where you are right).