/v/ - Video Games

>>16059218

>playing an rts with my friends

>I build up an impressive army, defences and have solid resource managment

>friend comes in and destroys literally everything because as it turns out I was playing poorly

>20-30 minutes of prep time wasted

Sucks to be a retard

>>16059232

>anything multiplayer

Dude, I'm the same. It doesn't matter about genre, I have never liked anything multiplayer. I'm the type of guy who hated Quake 3 because they gutted the singleplayer mode.

>Gookclickers

No wonder

>>16059218

I feel like at least learning an RTS game thoroughly should be a necessary experience. You have to do more than just point and click at a target and watch it be killed. You have to learn your units, meta, map stragety, etc. Requires more effort on a players side of things that a lot of AAA games don't have.

But my list will out me:

Top down action games

Metroidvanias

Racing Sims

SPORTSBALL

battleroyal

Bullet Hell. Back in the day Musha Aleste on genesis killed all my aspirations of getting into them. Funny side note…I've absolutely no problem with sidecrolling shoot'em ups, like R-type or Parodius.

I don't like indie games that try to replicate snes 3d graphics. Pilotwings already sucked… Star Fox… Doom (good port), and F-Zero

Though, if Nintendo did another F-ZERO that would be amazing. Do they listen to posts down here?

Shmups. I want to love them since they are really cool, but I lack the dedication to actually learn one enough to be competent so I end up dropping every one after a few hours.

One thing I want to see more of is beat em ups like River City Ransom in 3d. Why the fuck is this not existing?

Point and click adventures. It's too easy to look up a solution if I get stuck and that ruins the whole appeal of them.

RTS and 4X games. If I want to micro manage shit I can get paid for it. It's like sim city stops being fun once you have a stable city. When you stop expanding and just have to manage things it becomes a chore.

Bullet hell. I'm not autistic enough to learn bullet patterns.

>>16059218

rouge like

no feeling of progression and the developers are lazy and used procedure generated maps.

the only exception was rouge legancy

Racing games

I honestly can't see much value in doing nothing but holding the gas button until you reach a bend in the track where your drifting skills can finally shine or trying to get in front of an opponent through slipstreaming. There's so fucking many racing games but aside from the arcade ones I honestly wouldn't be able to see the difference in franchises like Gran Turismo or Ridge Racer or what else have you, other than differences in playable cars, different tracks, and minute differences in vehicle handling between games which only hardcore /o/fags will notice anyways

Shit genres: Fighting, racing, puzzle, sports, RTS

Good genres: Everything else

?>>16059451

Haven't you played Mario Kart and Gran Turismo? Maybe Project Gotham Racing? Those are the only racing games that exist basically, and they are all good

>>16059454

>>16059451

>>16059453

Tetris and Dr. Mario/Kirby's Avalanche are all good puzzle games.

Fighting - Mortal Kombat (ps2), Street Fighter, Super Smash Brothers, possibly tekken

Racing - Mario Kart, Gran Turismo, Project Gotham Racing

Sports- tons (NBA JAM, wrestling titles, even some NES games, hotshots golf lol

>>16059454

I think everyone has played Mario Kart, but I don't have friends or like party game-levels of RNG in my games, so I never bothered much with it. The only racing game franchise I really dig is Burnout

>>16059218

>RTS

same, i couldnt get into RTSs mostly because i find the combat the most interesting thing about the genre, but its usually an afterthought that barely matters. the games are all about gathering resources and building as fast as possible.

>Platformers

i grew up in the 80s and never got the obsession. its jumping platform to platform. why is this fun? if you miss, its frustrating. if you succeed, who cares? all you did was jump.

for me to enjoy a "platformer" it has to have a focus on other elements like combat or gadgets like in metroid or megaman.

>>16059380

>Point and click adventures

easily the worst genre. although i do have some nostalgic love for maniac mansion

>>16059429

>rouge like/rouge lite

both are mostly boring genres to me with a few exceptions. in an effort to make an endless game, they make a game thats over before you finish it. these games always fail to excite or surprise me in spite of them being "random"

>turn based strategy

some are ok, and i can easily tell a good one from a bad one, but i rarely find the combat fun.

>>16059453

>homosexual dating sims are good

anon…

>>16059451

>>16059453

"racing" such a broad genre since there are so many types. everything from simulation offroad/carbuilding, to combat racing like extreme G, dirtbike/jetski/skiing/etc, some about destruction like burnout. are you really blanket hating on all racing games? or just a specific type.

>>16059463

Tetris is arguably the only good puzzle game, everything else is derivative garbage.

Fighting - shallow button mashers that only niggers and asians care about learning for "street cred"

Racing - repetitive, shallow, boring

Sports - niggersportsball garbage for normalfaggots like you, only decent sports game are all arcade games and even then they are still ultimately shit

>>16059475

Just because you can't appreciate shota vnovels doesn't mean they're bad faggot

>>16059475

>are you really blanket hating on all racing games?

Most singleplayer racing games I played involved me racing my way to top position and then trying to maintain it by not fucking up bends and hoping the AI rubberbanding doesn't screw me over. The idea of time trials and trying to get the best times by driving through a track over and over isn't very appealing, and I'd much rather speedrun something where there isn't so much dead time where you do nothing but hold the gas button. At least combat racers or racing games where you ram things like Burnout or Need for Speed mix things up in this regard

>>16059487

Dr Mario had a good theme and was probably better than Tetris. Kirby's Avalanche was fun too and featured Kirby

Fighting - Automatically good, if it doesn't suck

Racing - Mario Kart, not shallow, not repetitive, and not boring

Sports - FUN fun fun

>>16059491

Oh wow yeah those match 3 puzzle games are all so different and interesting wow

Fighting- wrong

Racing - wrong

Sports- wrong

MMOs and ASSFAGs.

>>16059453

>>16059487

this poster is a woman or a fag.

>>16059375

It takes a while for your brain to memorize all those patterns, but once you do and enter the "zone" you will have the time of your life trying to match your hand-eye coordination to the speed your brains processes the information.

>>16059497

Oh, wow

>>16059500

I'm pretty sure they want to be a woman (not that theres anything wrong with that)

>>16059504

I formally accept your concession of defeat and apology for your wrong opinions, have a nice day

>>16059450

>Non-mainline Touhou games.

>Also any game where a main character or sidekick is a woman

So the STG touhou games as well?

>>16059500

>>16059506

Bitter virgin incel pissbabies detected

>>16059527

I bet you won't you little bitch.

Hexagon strategy games, I just fucking suck at them and don't ever feel like playing them enough to git gud.

>>16059538

Advance Was was never good

>>16059562

Agreed, the only good strategy game is Chess. Can't beat the original eh brother? *tips fedora*

>>16059218

VN's and point and click adventure games. Anything that makes me read too much instead of acting. I just don't understand how people can stand reading instead of playing.

>>16059218

I can't stand fighting games, I play smash but I'm miserable at that too. Maybe I'm not autistic enough to memorize the 1000+ combinations of counters and character strats to git gud.

Souls like games. Never understand why anyone would willingly play games with bad controls and hitboxes.

>>16059595

git gud

>>16059584

A game without a set of a rules and limitations to test the player's skill is not a game, plain and simple. It's the electronic equivalent of Legos. That's fine if you want to play with Legos, but I'd rather play games.

>>16059584

The objective is to have the most fun.

>>16059232

What the fuck do you even play then? Gatcha shit and VNs?

>>16059625

Imagine being this much of an NPC

>>16059218

RTS games are just gookclick anyway. Shit genre for autists.

>"The genre I like is not shit, you'res is!" the thread

GG

>>16059644

AI skirmishes are comfy though.

>>16059637

3D and 2D platformers, puzzle games and survival horror games and the odd JRPG, mainly. Other games I like are one-offs, mainly (I like Deus Ex, but am not a big fan of FPSes as a whole, I like Animal Crossing but am not a fan of life-sims of other kinds, I like Ace Attorney but don't care for other VNs, and so on).

I'm curious what prompted your response, though. I don't think my dismissals were that restrictive.

>>16059595

Bad controls? What? The first game is pretty clunky but the rest of them are decent.

Now if you mean soulslikes I understand. FromSoft are the only ones who make decent games with the formula.

I do agree that the hitboxes can be retarded though.

>>16059218

Games that give you all the freedom right from the start, so I end up not knowing what the fuck to do if it's a sandbox and had a decent bit of intricate mechanics or just poorly explained ones where you have to rely on a wiki.

It's a bit of a problem.

>>16059218

I can't get into anything unless it has good AI, multiplayer, or is a simulator of some kind. If it doesn't pose an intellectual challenge, then I feel like I'm just wasting my time.

fighters

>bullshit combos

>bullshit fighter ranges

>bullshit hitboxes

>most fans are literal or figurative niggers

>>16059451

Nitronic Rush and Distance are the only good racing games because they have you doing things like jumping and spinning around. They provide constant challenges to reflexes alongside freedom of increased mobility that a powerful vehicle should afford you.

As for me it's

JRPG, MMO, 2D puzzle games exception for Hoyle Puzzle games and Incredible Machine, bullet hells and scroller-shooters, turn-based 4X, fighters, most platformers/metroidvanias, and anything anime.

>ASSFAGGOTS

Basically a dumbed-down RTS. Also incredibly unfun to watch, even at the highest levels. I have no idea why big tourneys pull such high viewership.

>Battle Royales

90% running around doing fuckall, 10% actual combat. Honestly not worth the rush of winning a match.

>Classic WRPGs (e.g. Interplay Fallout games)

Things like combat and interface design feel terribly clunky nowadays. Plus, I kinda grew up with Japanese-styled RPGs, so I'm a bit biased on the matter.

>Generic racers

Mario Kart-esque games spoiled me as far as racing games go.

>Mobage

Do I even need to justify this one?

>Walking sims

See above.

>JRPGS

Glorified no depth and impossible to fail cinematic experiences that are responsible for the moviegame Sony trash we have today. Made to appeal to subhumans and women.

That's about all. Peace out.

>>16059822

>Oh no, someone responded negatively to me, a poor innocent eceleb-loving faggot

>What do I do

>WHAT DO I DO

>>16059835

>eceleb-loving

I have no idea what you're talking about. Take your medication, kid.

In order of what offends me the most to least.

>MMO

My least favorite, nothing about it every clicked, and I've never enjoyed interacting with anyone I've come across that plays

>JRPG

I can only stand Wizardry and I'm not sure why. The gameplay is depthless in these games, and I've always despised games that even a little rely on story to be considered "quality", and I find that JRPGs rely heavily on story.

>point and click adventure

Boring plain and simple.

>FMV

Just horrible faggot garbage all around

>rail shooter

Also boring. Only acceptable in an arcade, and even then I won't play it. It's like a cheap little ride you get to go on and almost have fun.

ASSFAGGOTS

>>16059813

>muh pol

Someone's gotta actually go back to Reddit

Anything multiplayer that isn't 1 on 1. Fuck teams and fuck free for all. I want the winner and loser to have nothing to blame/reward but themselves

>>16059903

Someone is very new to 8chan, and that's you, buddy.

games with a set time limit to get shit done like pikmin and majoras mask

im sure theyre great games but the looming anxiety of having an x amount of time to beat it kinda ruins any sort of fun i could be having because i feel like i have to rush through it. maybe the time limits actually generous enough that i could make it without failing but i never got far enough to find out just from how much the time limit got to me as a kid

>>16059813

What are you doing on this site?

>>16059911

stop thinking about the time, the only time you think about time is the time you are thinking about it

>>16059914

Sure, dude.

>>16059931

Yeah man, I'm sure. Anyways, what was so /pol/tier about his hate for JRPGs? He never mentioned race.

>>16059638

He is right tho. Just because you made an interactive piece of software doesn't automatically make it a game. It may be a toy sure, but it's not a game. It's like calling Space Engine a game, it's not more of a game than software to visualize molecules is.

Even then, I still think Minecraft CONTAINS a game since it does have a winning condition and you can make progress as a player towards it. But most of it is just digital legos. You can't have a game without goals. You can make your own goals but that's just you creating a game on top of it.

>>16059943

>they hate anime

You've never been to /pol/ then. Stop sperging out and write like someone from the 1st exodus would. You write like a teenager, damn it.

>>16059955

I was pretty shit at Puyo until I played Puyo Tetris, it's actually very good at easing you into the gameplay. Then 20th gives you more time to practice with Puyo. You could try doing that.

>>16059919

thanks im cured

Street Fighter and the billion direct clones of it. Always loathed the stiff movement system in these games. Guilty Gear XX is the only somewhat-related game I've ever been able to get into and really enjoy because of the huge amount of movement options. Absolutely can't stand the movement in most other Street Figther-likes.

Not a big fan of JRPGs or VNs, nor do I like most fightan games or flight sims.

>>16060175

>>16060162

get the fuck out /tv/

Console shooters. It feels less like playing as your character and more like trying to tell the character what to do while he struggles to understand what you're saying.

It probably doesn't help that, coming from PC, I never thought to abuse things like aim assist. I always tried to aim properly which would either leave my character turning excruciatingly slowly or whipping past whatever I was trying to look at because of how turning acceleration works.

If I want to turn around on PC, I turn around. If I want to turn around on console I need to wait for my character to start turning, then either turn some more if I stopped turning before the acceleration could ramp up too high, or I have to correct my angle if the acceleration did ramp up. It really does feel like telling the character on the screen, "Okay keep turning, keep turning, slow down, alright you went too far so turn the other way a bit." God forbid there's an enemy involved in the whole process.

>>16060186

>console shooters

There's no such thing.

>>16060195

>8/v/

I don't like anime personally but you sound like a massive newfag, perhaps you ought to hop on over to a more comforting website like cuckchan?

>>16060208

>8/v/ is cancer!

>now excuse me while I go get double cancer!

military shooter, sports ball. They're just shitty normalfag games.

>>16060208

nigger, Mark may be a kike and this board has most definitely seen better days but you can't honestly sit there and expect me to believe the horseshit that 4chan is somehow better than 8chan

>>16060306

I know you're being ironic, but cuckchan has gotten really REALLY bad these past few years. I'll post a screen cap in a second.

>>16059304

Ah yes the game which taught me that a wall comprising nothing but gates is more effective then a real wall.

>>16059218

RTSs where the AI is punting laser focused kicks to your balls while you're busy trying to find your feet have almost completely scuppered the genre for me, old titles like >>16059304 ain't so bad for it but you can still cheat like a motherfucker and lose to an avalanche of bullshit.

Card 'games' can fuck off.

XCOM-like titles leave me wanting to slap the makers for getting what should be a good idea so horribly wrong.

Survival focused open world crap where you're perma-ultra hungry or on a VERY pressing timer where you croak over and over while you're in the process of cooking/lighting a fire.

>>16060397

>every single OP is low effort 1 sentence shitposts

How can anybody say that's better?

>>16060416

>it really isn’t that different

We probably have more generals :^)

>>16060397

Just by the posting styles I see in those pics as well as some other screencaps I've seen in the (not so distant) past, I can tell there are a lot of crossposters here. Especially in the 8chanmania and 8chancup threads. Streams seem to attract their types quite well.

>>16060468

Oh and to my shame EU and CK2, cos I'm not willing to learn all the intricacies they present and even if I somehow manage to scrape by the scant victories I secure are lacklustre, pyrrhic and very temporary.

>>16060416

It's quite different to be honest. At least 60%-80% of the threads in that first image would be deleted here.

>>16059218

>RTS

Feel the same as OP. Though I'm not sure if the problem is with me or because the genre changed and turned to shit for my tastes, because I quite enjoy even today some DOS era and early Windows era RTSs:

The very first Age of Empires (probably my favorite RTS), the very first Command & Conquer, C&C Red Alert, Total Annihilation, Warcraft 1 and 2. Don't like anything else on the genre. Now that I think about it, I think I stopped enjoying RTS once they started pandering and being balanced for multiplayer cancer.

>Sportsball games

I assume that's a given for most of /v/, though, so much that I'm not even sure it's necessary to mention them. Exceptions: SNK Neo Geo sportsball games, most of them are extremely fun and enjoyable.

>Dungeon crawler RPGs

Probably what bothers me the most about them is the lack of variety in scenery and enemies, and in most of them I find the interface and controls too clunky and awkward to make them enjoyable.

Exceptions: Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2, I quite enjoyed them from the little I played, haven't finished them but still plan to eventually. Also Starcrawlers, Vaporum and Mary Skelter: Nightmares seem interesting to me and are on my backlog.

>Grid-based Strategy JRPGs

I just suck at them and often find them too boring and repetitive. Also, the setting and characters usually don't appeal to me. I think FFT is one of the worst I have ever played, don't understand why it's so popular

Exceptions: Front Mission series, tried playing Front Mission: Gun Hazard and Front Mission 3 about 3 or 4 times because I quite enjoy the setting and characters, but always end up quitting after some time out of boredom and frustration. I quite enjoyed Jeanne D'arc (PSP), and Shining Force 1 and 2, still I'd probably have enjoyed them a lot more if they were regular turn-based JRPGs.

>MMORPGs and MMOs in general, battle royale, sandbox building MMOs, gachashit

Don't think I need to justify or explain these ones and it's better that I don't.

>puzzle games

Have nothing against them actually, but why would anyone want to play any of them on any setting other than on a portable console or mobile phone while commuting or waiting in a line, is beyond me.

>>16060171

I can agree with that. Either give me full control of my character or go full turn-based JRPG style combat. Those that have some freaky in-between combat mechanics irk me.

I feel you OP, I used to love RTS games but I just can't play them anymore as I get older and I can't handle juggling units in real time.

>>16060478

They usually get banned or their shit deleted.

>>16059218

>RTS

Try C&C Generals. It's gleefully aware that it's not "balanced" for (((competitive play))), and just embraces the insanity. It's an RTS for non-gooks, and it still holds up wonderfully today.

>>16059239

>I have never liked anything multiplayer.

Even coop through otherwise singleplayer campaigns? Come on, anon.

>>16059380

>Point and click adventures

Shit genre. Still, I'd recommend playing through Grim Fandango and Harvester. The first for having great characters, one of the best soundtracks in vidya, and a good story. The second because it's sick, twisted, and one of a kind.

>4x and bullet hell

Neither should be touched under any circumstance.

>>16059451

Burnout Paradise is a great racing game for people who don't like racing games. For a kart game that's not shit and doesn't require friends to enjoy, Sonic Racing Transformed is definitely worth a playthrough.

>>16059655

Try Final Fantasy Tactics. Well-written story, best combat in the entire series, good characters, optional grind with countless ways to completely break the game.

>sports

Nigger genre

>fighting

Also a nigger genre, but I do have a soft spot for Tekken 3.

>>16059774

>Classic WRPGs

I'd recommend suicide.

>>16059934

>Shooters are either: Someone shot you in the back and you died in 1 hit – realistic, but not fun. Or you unload a machinegun into someone's face, reload, repeat, finally he dies.

I think you should play some better shooters, anon. A good starting point would be FEAR.

>>16060500

>Exceptions: Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2, I quite enjoyed them from the little I played, haven't finished them but still plan to eventually

Anon, the first LoG is like 8 hours long if you're really taking your time. What kind of nigger starts a short game, enjoys it, and then puts it down and fucks off to play something else for the foreseeable future?

>Open world sandboxes

They are fun to fuck around with and get chased by the authorities for an hour or so but nothing is ever too impressive to hold me, other games have better gameplay and other games have better story.

>genres that you could never get into

MOBA games. They're just watered down RTS games for brainlets that can't manage an apm over 100 or to wrap their heads around a techtree. Dreadfully boring, simplistic games.

>>16059218

>RTS

It's about how you play them. I've always loved RTS games and played them a lot, only to later find out that my playstyle of building things slowly as I like, playing for 4-5 hours per map, using the units I enjoy using, is apparently completely wrong and not how you should play RTS games. I saw the "pro" RTS players clicking a gorillion times a second like they're having a seizure and more or less producing a game that is over in ten minutes against another similarly spazzing faggot, and decided that I'm pretty sure I was having more fun than they ever were, and continued not giving a shit about meta and only playing against Medium AI. There are some RTS games that by design don't allow playing like that, and they're gay, but the majority allows you to take your time, especially the ones with many epochs, EE series and RoN.

>>16060484

The secret to CK2 and the like is you don't need 80% of the buttons and menus. Those games are very streamlined once you get to know the vary basics. Pirate it and play for an hour. I guarantee you you'll become a veteran in session.

>>16060595

Go play Age of Empires 2. It's a much slower game over all compared to most RTS games.

fighting games. i have a controller, i practice, i watch guides, but i just can't learn the timings

>>16060610

I've played that a lot also, but I prefer the long progression in EE. Earth 2150 is nice too, with the massive amounts of customization of everything and so many building options, but it has such a gloomy fucking atmosphere, it's the one reason I don't quite like it as much.

>>16059356

>Dark Souls

>MMO

nu-/v/ is retarded.

>>16059514

Touhous aren't women. They are eternally pure maidens and youkai

>>16059588

>t. faggot that doesn't play danmaku

lol no1cur

>>16059934

You're describing multiplayer shooters though, singleplayer is completely different.

>>16060595

>There are some RTS games that by design don't allow playing like that

there are?

theres a big difference between SC and something like Total War. Not all RTS games are made for autistic chinks

>>16059218

That's because of limited technology back in the day. Base building strategy games would require gargantuan sized maps and loads of time on the player end. At the moment base building has stagnated as a gimmick and hasn't been properly fleshed out yet. Ultimate Apocalypse for DoW took it to an amazing extreme, as it should be in WH40K, but the maps were obviously not meant for it. 4x and grand strategy games may be more your thing, though you would have to look to the past for the decent games. Also, have you tried Homeworld? RTT is fun too.

4 player, coop and LAN games were the peak of multiplayer games. Outside of that has been a failed experiment.

>>16059510

>doesn't know about the wonderful world of mods

Naw, I get where you're coming from. My fun was exploring the lands made by modders and the buildings made by the players. Landscapes and architecture are nice, but you might as well be viewing a painting, see BotW. Meinkampf was an unfinished game, which is why players invented their own goals and end bossesIsraphel. Imagine if (((they))) had developed a game in the same vein as D&D or other tabletops. Join a GM's world and the adventures begin.

>>16059584

>the difference between a toy and a game

The toy can be used for anything your imagination conjures up. - almost endless fun

A vidya game has it's world created by others for you to enjoy, with a begining and an end. - limited fun

A simulator is a world first created by others but is set free to live on by it's own means. You the player are introduced into the mix, to create your own stories. - endless possibilities

A sandbox is fun at first, tossing the earth around, until the neighbourhood cats piss and shit in it. - endless worms

Sandbox has now become a thing of warning whenever a new game is announced.

==stay away== it says

Fucking MMOs, Christ almight, if there was a genre of game for people that hate themselves this is it. I'll admit, i've enjoyed a couple of them, but it never lasts. The nature of the genre prevents player satisfaction, you spend hours and hours rotating cooldowns and watching as both you and the AI inflate your numbers. Just fucking NUMBERS. The idea that bloated HP bars make for any kind of difficulty or engaging gameplay is ridiculous.

People will sit there all day playing these 'games' because you can't achieve anything in a reasonable timeframe. You're locked into wasting your time going from point A to B and dealing with the millions of small skirmishes along the way and then you're running back to where you started for a pair of boots that you'll throw away in five minutes, fucking awful. Just imagining someone sitting down and enjoying this abysmal experience makes me sick to my core. They aren't even games.

Turn based JRPGSs. There's just something that bugs me about the whole system, it feels so slow and 90% of the time I couldn't give half a shit about the world or the combat to want to play them any further.

>>16059218

Try Dawn of War, or Total Annihilation. They're both no-micro bullshit RTS games

>>16060849

They're for people who hate the world and the shit life they live, but instead of doing anything to change it, they invest in living a second life that they wish they could live. When they're in this mindset, they can ignore almost all of the issues you described, and nothing outside of a worldwide power outage or account deletions (or in some cases, shutting down servers when the game is no longer popular enough) will make them face their reality again. There's a reason worst korea forced their MMOs to have cooldown periods since that's their people's only escape from their shithole of a country.

>>16061069

>it feels so slow and 90% of the time I couldn't give half a shit about the world or the combat to want to play them any further.

The PS1 JRPGs are the worst offenders of this due to how their limitations are almost unbearable. Many JRPGs that have come out since then have followed the formula set by the games from that era (with a few exceptions), where they focus more on the cinematic/story aspect rather than gameplay, and have only done very little to make the experience any better. Most of the stories can be boiled down to "ragtag group of rebels/outsiders/strangers/friends start out with one motivation from the small variety store, then turns into a plot to save the city/kingdom/land/world, with plot twists (such as religious faction/"good" faction turns out to be evil and the cause of the bad shit happening and are doing whatever it takes to keep it that way or hide it) to spice it up. Combine this with grindy combat where most boil down to "hit enemy with current strongest weapon, high numbers, and weakpoint exploitation while healing yourself till enemy dies" that gets padded out to give the illusion that it is a game, the genre really starts to lose it's luster.

>>16060581

>Anon, the first LoG is like 8 hours long if you're really taking your time. What kind of nigger starts a short game, enjoys it, and then puts it down and fucks off to play something else for the foreseeable future?

I was busy playing other stuff, I was planning from the start to just playtest them for no longer than 20 or 30 minutes each to make sure they were working right and were worth keeping on my backlog, and ended up playing each for over 2 hours in one sitting. Probably due to my lack of experience on the genre I would often become stuck without knowing what to do or where to go, so I doubt I made lots of progress in that time.

>>16059218

I really want to be good at fighting games, but no matter how much i practice, i can never improve, maybe i just need an arcade stick or something, because i can't do shit with a controller or a keyboard.

I can't into Fighting Games.

Smash I'm fine with because it's not a fighting game

But the autistic button mashing I just never found the appeal of.

>>16061491

Nice bait, that'll surely piss off smashfags and fightfags.

>>16059562

You're entitled to your completely wrong opinion, but maybe strategy just isn't your thing. Perhaps you should stick to mobile games and facebook games.

>>16059951

Except by that posters own admission Minecraft IS a game: "A system of rules and limitations chosen by a designer(s) to guide the development of the one or more player's skill for the purpose of entertainment.

So rules and limitations (combat mechanics, physics, hunger, inventory management, randomly generated terrain) made by a designer to guide the players skill (building, gathering supplies, killing monsters, not dying) for their enjoyment. He disproved his own point, defeating his argument. Saying that you have to use your imagination or set your own goals to disprove it being a video game is retarded. Just because it is an open ended sandbox does not make it any less of an electronic video game. That is like saying legos aren't actually toys because there is no win state and only board games count. But I do understand that being on the spectrum does impair logic and reasoning.

>>16060595

This, tbh. I was under the illusion that there was supposed to be some kind of "strategy" in a real time strategy game, but I don't think I've played a single one where the only viable "strategy" wasn't just cheesing the fuck out of everything as quickly as possible with whatever units the devs didn't bother to balance properly and dumping the rest of the game into the garbage.

>>16061425

Your keyboard may give you issues depending on how it handles overlapping inputs, but don't fall for the 'I need a fight stick' meme. Some of the best players in the world play on pad. Its all about your personal comfort. That said, if you can get a hold of a decent cheap stick or have a buddy willing to let you practice on his, go for it if you wanna.

Getting decent at fighting games is equal parts practice and experience playing other players, and simply learning how these types of games work overall. Once you crack that initial 'I have no idea what the fuck is happening' barrier, it all comes down to tightening up your execution and decision making, which will come with time. Also, you need to accept that there is always a bigger fish, and take your lumps. What is winning if you've never lost?

>>16061524

>That is like saying legos aren't actually toys because there is no win state

Toys don't require a win state. Games do.

>>16061530

Check out The Settlers or Widelands (open source clone of Settlers 2, the best one in the series). They're about building up and managing a civil economy with very little in the way of direct combat, and are designed around autistic ten hour maps.

>>16061554

I see reading comprehension is not your strong suit

>>16061563

>No one understands me

>It must be reading comprehension's fault

>>16059218

Multiplayer RTS is for autists unless you're playing with friends.

Warcraft 1, 2 and 3, as well as Starcraft 1 have reasonable sized single-player campaigns that even a player that sucks in the genre can get through.

What I once hoped I would see one day was a Starcraft movie in which the plot actually includes a terran barracks structure being used for scouting, but nowadays the best that we can hope for is a Starcraft movie about snarky dykes disparaging white men.

> What genres could you never get into and why

Racing games bore the fuck out of me, especially if the cars behave as if they're indestructible. I haven't checked the genre in years but I imagine this is no longer the case for most games.

Of all series in the genre only Burnout did it for me, but at least early games suffer from crippling AI rubberbanding. Never cared enough to check the latest installments.

Point-and-click adventures have also been pretty not interesting for me. I guess I just don't want to spend too much time figuring out that I need to use the pancake on the car so I can remove its battery so I can power the retro console so I can read the password to unlock my friend's phone and email his mom to send me a fork that I can insert onto a wall socket and kill myself.

>>16062108

Try Flatout (2). Maybe Wreckfast as well, haven't played it.

Also, futuristic death sleds are never indestructible.

>>16059429

The problem with rogue-like games is that you need some top autists working on the world generation otherwise it will for sure suck, and the best map generation efforts have happened for ASCII games.

ITT: faggots with shit taste

>>16062224

Life of a Peasant looks… Different.

>>16059233

>I build up an impressive army, defences and have solid resource managment

>20-30 minutes of prep time

found your problem

don't sit on your base like a retard and move around

>>16061177

>remembering bullet patterns (I seriously hope you don't do this)

>remembering other combos other than your bread n butter & command inputs

LOL

>>16062224

I always liked pyramid escape. How did Blizzard fuck up SC2 custom map scene? It's never been very popular.

>>16059218

>Genres you could never get into and why.

fighting games, i think i just don't have the reaction time and precision (in my right hand) to perform well in them. it's a shame really.

>>16062237

Scientifically speaking, if you don't like turn-based RPGs you are a fag.

>>16062376

Jagged Alliance doesn't count for reasons stated here >>16059523

in fact it's officially a Tactical RPG

>>16062385

You take turns in it. I don't care about your autistic screed.

>>16059218

I think 99% of JRPGs are boring, but real-time with pause is definitely way more homosexual.

>>16059951

> since it does have a winning condition

A game must have a lose condition, be interactive, and have rules. That's it. Those are the very core definitions of a game. For example, Tetris has no "win" condition. You keep playing until you lose.

>>16062358

how else do you control an entire party?

>>16062451

RTwP, Tactics, Strat

there are many ways that don't involve THE SCREEN(tm)

>>16062455

Have you played Mystic Quest? It stacks up favorably to modern western shit.

>simple but functional graphics instead of 4K garbage with a million shaders stacked on top

>comfy towns that aren't full of assholes

>you can switch your weapons in combat and use them to solve puzzles outside of combat

>enemies change their graphics as they're beaten down

>equipment is rare enough and good enough that finding a chest is actually exciting

>soundtrack is atmospheric ballads, marches and hair metal

SPORTS-

If the term go outside had a genre this would be it, you want to do sports go do actual sports

>>16062556

this, but milsims and GTA

If you want kill people just go outside and shoot some bodies

>>16059487

>shota vnovels

Is that even a thing? Honestly, I only know of one and it's just softcore anyway.

>>16061554

>Toys don't require a win state. Games do

Then half of arcade games were never "games" because there was no win state; you just kept playing until you reached the kill screen or the equivalent.

>>16061554

>>16061571

>>16059835

I wonder what it's like to have such an underpowered mind.

Is it more fun to be that slow?

Pretty much any genre that isn't a normalfag AAA FPS game, like the mainline Call of Duty games, Battlefield, a few of the GTA games, some Bethesda RPG's like Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout NV, and some other random games. I don't like pretty much anything /v/ likes…then again, /v/ is a hivemind and a single person. Everybody here plays the same shit, all the time.

>>16062950

Should i post my game collection? I play only on my Playstation 3, as i don't own (or want to) anything else.

>>16059331

>Pilotwings already sucked…

Take it back motherfucking heretic

>>16062471

>Tactics

Aren't tactical rpgs still turn-based though? Arguably an order of magnitude more deep than standard rpg combat though, so the comparison is fair.

Sports games are for normalfags and niggers.

>>16059429

>Rogue legacy

>A roguelike

:/

Saying devs are lazy because they use procgen is like saying devs are lazy because they reuse assets. That is lazy. Look at CDDA, Dwarf Fortress, Ultima Ratio Regum. Their maps are better than handmade ones because they wrote the procgen part of the game.

>no feeling of progression

Only valid criticism that is still phrased moronically. Like saying I don't like FPSs because it's not third person. It's inherent to the genre. And the feeling of progression in RLs comes from feeling yourself get better at the game and knowing what to do in a situation you previously would have died in.

>>16063455

>comes from feeling yourself get better at the game and knowing what to do in a situation you previously would have died in.

except the game change because its procedure genareted, so you cant adapt to the situation if the situation doesnt repeat also you cant build strategies because the itens became random so big portion of it is lucky based

also

>defending procedure generated maps.

how much shit taste can i person get?

I have difficulty keeping interest in isometric RPGs. I've tried to play Fallout 1, Baldur's Gate, and Arcanum more times than I can count, but I always end up getting bored with them after 3 or 4 hours. The storytelling and worldbuilding are great in each but the core gameplay loop and combat mechanics just put me to sleep.

>>16063455

>Ultima Ratio Regum

How's that coming along? The dev is a cool dude, he put himself through college with video poker and held the world record in a few danmaku games.

>>16062394

>You take turns in it

>Durr game has platforming so it's a platformer like Half-Life

back to cuckchan

>>16063056

Exactly

Grand strategy.

Because I'm retarded.

>>16059218

You could argue that RTS was killed by the hardcore fanbase like arena FPS were. RTS was popular in the 90s but most players focused on the campaigns or playing with friends. Most people probably played the way >>16059233 did, spending 20-30 minutes building a fuckhueg base and army to obliterate the AI with that's what I and everyone I knew did. But now the focus is on competitive multiplayer, and the kinds of people that would have subsidized RTS in the past are intimidated by the prospect of furious gookclicking.

Likewise with arena FPS, most people spent their time playing single player, playing offline with bots, or otherwise not taking the game too seriously. As the people moved onto more casual FPS titles only the hardcore remained and all the focus was placed on 1v1 deathmatch, leaving the genre in a state that is simply too stressful and hard on the ego for most people.

Sports and racing

Because it's boring as shit to watch so why would it be any more fun to simulate?

Sports and racing but then there are things like Rocket League or F zero. There is probably at least 1 good game in every genre.

>>16059644

Low-apm brainlet detected. Seriously, if you can't manage around 200 apm, the minimum bar to be able to enjoy the game and handle the mechanics, then your deficient. The genre's great fun if you're up to the task.

>>16059218

MOBA's because they're shite and not even gameplay to me, and metroidvanias/roguelikes because once you've seen one, you've typically seen em all.

Bullet hell

<Just suck at them, could never get gud. Don't hate them but I won't play them

RTS

<Find most of them too limiting or just repetitive.

Fighting

<Just not a fan of the gameplay/community.

Sports

<I can't stand professional sports (mostly because of entitled manchildren playing the games and the manchildren fans) and it carries over into games. Will admit that some games that don't try to recreate real sports are good.

Point and Click

<I'd rather read a book for a good story.

>>16066229

Some games have pretty good stories. Conversely, some books are pretty terrible.

>>16066260

I wasn't trying to shit on Point and Click, just that I prefer to read a good story than to play a Point and Click game with a good story. Again, its personal preference.

>>16066288

Fair enough.

>>16066399

Stop posting, Luciano.

Metroidvanias.

Not only i'm not into platformers, but having such a big world to explore seems annoying as fuck to me, in the sense that having so many options makes me anxious

>>16066879

Exploring is fun though, anon. Wander off the beaten path and see what you can find. Did you never just wander around a new neighborhood or a forest as a kid?

>>16066879

They may seem like big worlds but it's actually an illusion (with the good ones). The usually give you a very small area with what is effectively a door that requires a key (read: new ability) to open. New area, new lock, new key/ability. Repeat.

They chuck in a few 'doors' in early areas that need 'keys' from later areas, so when you remember you feel smug and clever for remembering this, even though you were supposed to.

That's why metroid and castlevania are remembered so fondly, because they were great at doing this.

>>16066891

I love exploring, but in 3d games think Deus Ex and if the game slowly opens itself up, if i have too many choices to begin with then i get anxious for some fucking reason and it gets annoying

>>16066919

Good point, but the illussion is enough to annoy me, i mean that feeling of being overwhelmed with options, it isn't a big deal but it keeps me uncomfortable when i start a new game or anything else for that matter

Guess i should give one a serious try at some point.

>>16060778

I haven't played Supcom FA a lot, but when I did, the Easy AI kicked my ass while I was messing around building a base. Supcom wasn't like that, could fight a Medium AI.

What's the opposite of pleb or casual?

>>16066989

Patrician

>>16066989

Things that have a high skill ceiling. Whether that be through careful planning/strategy, good reflexes or just generally mastering the game on every level. It's not even so much about the game itself in a lot of cases as much as it is about how good you can get at it.

>>16067006

Isn't a patrician someone who has good taste?

>>16067010

Shouldn't all games have a high skill ceiling? What's the point of playing a game where everyone can hit the skill ceiling? Example: Tic-Tac-Toe. Nobody wants to play shit like that, so the skill ceiling needs to be high if you don't want the player base to disappear after 5 minutes.

>>16067030

>Shouldn't all games have a high skill ceiling?

Well yea but there are varying degrees. Like if you compare something like Dark Souls to Nioh. In Dark Souls you have some pretty basic combat. Light attack, heavy attack, parry, block, backstab, riposte, dodge and a few spells/miracles. Then you look at Nioh where it has all of that plus a bunch of weapon specific skills, Multiple stances, ki pulse, flux which is like a ki bonus for switching stances while ki pulsing, living weapons and just a ton more options/optimizations when it comes to combat. Dark Souls can pretty much be mastered by either turtling or learning every enemy moveset. While Nioh requires you to do the same but if you actually want to be able to take on the harder content you also have to master stances and skills like flux. Or just hope for good gear drops and make a cheese build.

>>16067177

It's more about making builds. Like a vamp build so you never have to heal of a spellcaster so you can just kill everything when you enter a room or things like necromancers to resurrect your enemies and make them fight for you. The combat is usually pretty basic though.

>>16067177

I like it until the story is over. Then it's just grind for little profit.

ASSFAGGOTS or any variation. It is possibly the most boring multiplayer genre I can think of. Why would someone want to play a game that is essentially "who can grind the fastest" or "who can scum the Fog of war the most"? I can think of about a million ways to reuse the characters in more interesting genres than ASSFAGGOTS.

>>16059218

>I can't stand RTS games.

I don't think I've ever played one, think I don't like the perspective or something. Probably for the best as tower defense games raise my blood pressure too much.

I don't like RTS because it does not lets me focus on a single mook unit/squad, and it triggers my autism. I know there are some RTS that let you focus on a unit while shitty AI handles the rest, but those still leave shit-ton of other problems. Also the feature that your progress does not save when you finish a match/level really fucking gets to me, that's one of the reasons why I despise ASSFAGGOTS. It's even fucking worse than MMORPG, since MMORPG affect things in the long run by giving you at least miserable shit from grinding.

Though I don't remember being too shit in RTS as long as gook competetive meta wasn't involved.

I guess it''s just one of these genres that are not fun even when you have the skills and experience.

In any case, roguelikes/roguelites are the bane of my existence. Every a one I've played, with the sole exception of DoomRL, is unfun and an absolute exercise in tedium. It's like crossing progressively longer and longer bridges just to get the exact same reward each time. Fuck that genre to pieces.

>>16066931

>if the game slowly opens itself upup

Go and play SOTN or even Super Metroid. The "open world"stuff is just a meme. In order to advance you need to find and unlock skills..

>>16067310

You should change that filename. It's really disingenuous to suggest that Diablo 2 has "insane equips" when it's really a mod.

>>16067318

I think Enter the gungeon did it pretty well. Not only do you unlock things by finding them in chests as you progress but there is also a shop in the hub that you use the credits you get from beating the bosses to unlock new shit as well. Plus so many of the weapons are really fun to use and it doesn't really rely as much on synergising as games like Isaac do. You can get one really good weapon at the start and as long as you continue to get ammo you can use it till the final floor.

>>16059955

>It's strange because I hear Asians are great at the former but terrible at the latter

<insert video of jap beating invisible tetris at sanic drop speeds here

>>16059582

>>16085240

Who is that?

>>16085363

fitzthistlewitz, stopped making videos a few years ago

off-topic sage

/v/ hates games that take skill

I generally like games that are easy to pick up and start playing, and tough to master. Never gotten into fighting games because they're the complete opposite of this mentality of game design. Putting hours into a training mode before you can even control the characters properly is not fun. It takes like five seconds to learn how to control your ship in a shmup, and then you get down to the fun part of the game.

JRPG's are games I've never been able to get into. The whole turn based combat shit just turns me off completely, mostly because it separates me too much from the action I'm suppoused to be executing. I don't mind complex games, I don't mind juggling stats, but the moment I see that my actions are delineated by some boring menu it just makes my brain turn off. I'm guessing >>16059523 is right when he says that it's in order to make the game seem more like a traditional tabletop and ends up losing what makes those entertaining in the first place, the human dynamic. Besides, with todays technology I flat out don't understand why you can't just design a simple combat system around your game. I'm not asking for DMC3 or Dark Souls style combat, Seiken Densetsu 3 had pretty shallow gameplay but at the very least it actually feels like I'm fighting something, rather than debating it.

>>16062385

Faggot. JA2 is one of THE greatest games of ALL TIME

I hate Survival horror.

Overpowered enemies, no ammo, and slow idiotic Ai is not fun.

Occasionally the story is worth it. Rarely.

>>16089678

They just don't like the genre dude, this isn't a thread about bad genres.

People have different tastes. I'm sure there are great shoot-'em-ups but that's a genre I myself never liked.

>>16089703

He lambasted someone else for defending procgen so he's fair game.

>>16089678

>>16089708

procgen isn't an intrinsic evil, it's just overused and lazily so to such an extent that people assume the worst from it. I recently played Ziggurat: they just programmed a few enemies, weapons and made a crappy level assembler and called it a day. That game fucking sucks.

>>16089776

Yeah, particularly when it comes to 3D levels I've not seen anything terribly promising procgen wise outside of Bad North (which has really simple levels so isn't exactly pushing the boundaries) and various demos using the Wave Function Collapse algorithm: https://github.com/mxgmn/WaveFunctionCollapse

I could see something cool arising from this if the game had a shitload of different chunks to generate with, this algorithm can seemingly solve the problem of 3D maps lacking verticality but you really need a huge amount of chunks to stop 3D procgen feeling repetitive.

>>16089790

>Wave Function Collapse algorithm

Oh, I had forgotten about that. Procgen doesn't have to be random, mind you. I'm tired of perlin noise terrain, for example. One could start with perlin and then simulate rain/ river erosion and vegetation growth and anti-erosion to end up with more proper terrain. I've never played it, but I suspect Dwarf Fortress must do some fancy things with its world terrain generator.

Apparently people like to mouth off about genres they don't understand, and then proceed to list "reasons why they're so dumb", not realizing that their reasoning just makes them look all the more clueless. It's amusing seeing so many people talk down so confidently on things that they clearly don't have any proper understanding of.

For the most part I think I can at least understand some of the appeal in most genres. There's definitely more kinds of interesting games than I have the capacity to learn and fully appreciate. One thing I don't understand is why people continue to play team-based online games. I've played a lot in the past, but they feel like they're designed to be frustrating. I guess having friends to play with would be fun though.

>>16067177

>Who plays this shit and enjoys it?

I still haven't found an answer to this. It's all just a huge grind.

>>16090324

Are you sure it isn't possible, or even probably, that objectively bad genres can exist and the people who like them are shit eaters?

>>16067362

Symphony of the Night's Metroid facade is shallow when it exists (go take this ability and use it on the one thing you need to access the next area and then never touch it again), and then it drops the Metroid facade entirely for the second half of the game.

I really want to get into RTS's, but every time I do I fail miserably.

But the few games that hybridize RTS and action where you're on the ground and managing the troops/building I can be near god-tier.

Can someone explain why this is?

>>16090492

I wouldn't rule it out, but the types of people that insist on discussing genres in a strictly OBJECTIVE way tend to buttheadedly insert their own subjective takes on things ("its objectively bad becuz i dont like it!!!"). Its pretty much always a tiring conversation. At this point, the word "objectively" belongs with the likes of "ironically" and "literally" as far as being able to safely ignore it.

>>16064651

Sorry anon I'm not into cookie clickers either. The whole genre isn't fucked but as someone who plays a shit ton of RTS most can be easily overcome by finding the best 1-3 units (if even) and mass producing them while handling resources and economy. Micro and clicks to win. Gay. Thankfully a few break the mold but it's mostly the micro/gookclick ones that are popular.

>>16090324

t. fan of THAT genre

There are a few genres I've never been big into. There are some platformers I like, but overall I'm not a fan of the genre. It's a good genre with plenty of great games, just not for me.

Fighting games are the same way, except the only fighting game I like is Smash Brothers and thats simply because you don't have to memorize a bunch of random button combinations in order to have fun with it. Again, good genre, but just not my type of genre.

Favorite Genre is ARPG though.

>>16059218

>Warcraft

>Starcraft

Have you considered playing actually good RTSes?

>>16059218

Play old Relic RTSes like Dawn of War and Homeworld. They are made for people who don't have the patience for micro. You do still have to hotkey and manage some units but there's way less of them. Homeworld also lacks serious micro and is fairly forgiving with timing due to the nature of space combat.

>>16091344

Dude Hw1 is all about the micro.

>>16090472

could you say that again without a dick in your mouth?

MOBA - all look the same, all play the same and all are boring.

>Disclaimer: Subjective opinion.

Don't get your panties in a twist League of DoTA-fags.

>>16091421

Haven't played 1 online, but 2 is like a relaxing bubble bath compared to most RTS games.

I pretty much avoided any PC or mobile games that can't be ported to consoles and be played well with a controller. This is why I couldn't get into RTS games, MMOs, and other PC-centric games that absolutely required a k&m. Same deal for mobile-only games that were solely released on Android and iOS phones.

I mean, I have played stuff like Half Life 1 and Deus Ex 1 on the PS2, sure. The Orange Box on the 360 and so on. I even played Witcher 2 and 3 on consoles, but avoided the first Witcher because it never received a console port. Again, I mostly just play console exclusives and console multiplats and would rather avoid using a k&m or touchscreen smartphone. Ergo, most games within the RTS and MMO genre.

>>16060468

>XCOM

"XCOM" or X-COM?

>>16094378

What job do you have that involves fistfights?

>>16094387

could easily be bouncer at club

I've tried to get into a number of Roguelikes before like DoomRL and Elona+ but the controls are an incredible turn-off.

>>16059218

Fighting games. I'll spend a few hours messing around in practice making up some combos and then I'll go get my ass beat by the AI. I just do not have the patience for it.

>>16091312

>Have you considered playing actually good RTSes?

he did play Warcraft and Starcraft, so he has already played god RTSs

>>16091747

How does it feel to be objectively wrong?

>>16094538

>Giving a shit about losing to the AI

That's like complaining you lost to a robot in chess

>>16059218

Card games

Boring as fuck.

Just remembered another genre that I can't stand:

>puzzle platformers (Abe's Exodus, Abe's Odyssee, Heart of Darkness, Limbo, Braid, Badlands, The Swapper, The Fall, Trine)

I suck at them and find them extremely frustrating, stressful, boring and repetitive, and often have inane / asinine puzzles, either because they require pixel-precise jumping / extremely precise timing, or because of point and click adventure logic nonsense. In my eyes most people who play them seem to be masochists.

Exceptions: Out of this World, Flashback and the 1993 Prince of Persia 2, they are the only games in this genre I think are great. For some reason playing them doesn't feel like a chore to me even if I die a lot. Rochard is a more contemporary game that's pretty okay and seems promising in the beginning however it has an extremely steep difficulty curve (mostly on the puzzles, not so much in the enemies) that put me off and I ended up never finishing it.

>>16060595

>be bad at video games

>choose to play poorly because muh self expression

>get mad when other people play video games well

Unga bunga

Games where you're constantly waiting on shit to be crafted or ready to harvest. It just feels like a chore.

Also, games like Xenoblade (and basically any MMORPG) where you auto attack and magically hit enemies even if they're out of range, while also using special attacks that have cooldowns. I coud never get into that combat style.

>>16059487

>Fighting - shallow button mashers

Sorry you only played trash like MvC:I, Killer Instinct, MK, or Smash bros. Play something Third Strike which is deep enough that it's basically nigger replant.

>Racing - repetitive, shallow, boring

Car sims =! racing games.

>only decent sports game are all arcade games and even then they are still ultimately shit

<Arch Rivals

<NBA Jam

<Tecmo Bowl

<Mario golf

<shit

Sorry for your terminal shit taste.

>>16059344

Try Jets'n'Guns Gold. It's fucking amazing. The sequel is in early access and looks extremely promising as well.

>>16101809

I'm the same, but I believe it's more because most isometric games just coincidentally happen to be shit rather than anything wrong with the "genre" in particular.

>>16101816

>It's fucking amazing

lolno It's decent… for a Euroshmup.

>>16059218

Real Time Strategy

Fighting

Arena FPS

Any multiplayer genre or sub genre where you have to forsake the rest of vidya to git gud at it, really. My skill is at that midway point where I either completely obliterate the newbies, or the pros completely obliterate me, and an acceptable middle ground is a rare thing. I'll still play against bots though.

>>16101809

>>16101821

Iso + keyboard movement will never not be shit.

>>16068033

I've actually tried it once or twice, and while I haven't been disgusted by it I haven't picked it up in a good while. I made what I thought was decent progress on a run and just stopped after saving. I guess I'm too much of a chickenshit to continue.