915ccd No.15915201
why don't console manufacturers just ditch analogue sticks already and replace them with trackballs? or at least replace the right stick with a trackball. keyboard and mouse would still be superior, but it would close the gap quite a bit.
e833f0 No.15915217
>>15915201
would prefer if games allowed you to use half of a controller for movement and a mouse for aiming or whatever, just played a top down shooter where i used an arcade stick and the mouse to move and kill enemies
58b821 No.15915242
>>15915217
Quake II for PSX lets you use the crosspad + L1 and L2 to move and such, and the mouse and its two buttons to aim, fire, and I think change weapons. Been a while since I played. Not anywhere near as good as WASD+Mouse, but still better than playing without a mouse at all.
915ccd No.15915253
>>15915242
i actually tried playing that on my psp a few years ago. technically it was playable, but goddamn is it clunky to aim up and down with shoulder buttons. how can anyone be expected to play an fps like that?
d181fd No.15915276
915ccd No.15915290
>>15915275
then have a swappable module.
8cfa94 No.15915295
Gyro aiming would also be preferable.
2d012f No.15915297
Why not just allow KB+M on their consoles?
oh wait
58b821 No.15915299
>>15915253
Since the game is a severely cut-down version of the PC original, you can muddle through it without ninja-aiming, but what bothers me most of all is why Sony thought it would be a good idea to make a portable PlayStation with only two damn shoulder buttons.
915ccd No.15915319
>>15915299
to me, the most frustrating thing about the vita is that you still can't play ape escape because the psx emulator was designed for psp hardware. maybe there's been a workaround since i last tried a few years ago though.
95f29a No.15915321
>>15915201
Because modern devs are lazy and still stick with their aimbotting programming and awful sensitivity despite improvements in modern gamepads like the recent integrated gyros in PS4 and Switch gamepads.
e833f0 No.15915324
>>15915275
yeah actual traditional controllers.
915ccd No.15915327
>>15915324
every time i've played a fighting game on a cabinet, it feels like i'm going to shatter my fingertip bones
e833f0 No.15915331
>>15915327
i'm assuming you're holding the stick with your fingertips, unless you're retarded, you can still hold it similar to a bat stick, see pic-related
519a7a No.15915339
>Trackballs
>For videogames
Are you fucking retarded? They're terrible for them.
915ccd No.15915340
>>15915331
i'm talking about pushing the buttons. they don't have padding under the buttons to dampen the shock, so it's like you're slamming your fingertips against concrete.
e833f0 No.15915352
>>15915340
Then the buttons will feel like mush everytime you bottom out, you can press the button part way or try not pressing the button hard.
a48038 No.15915604
What's the deal with consolefags being so insecure about their console and controller? They were confident enough to buy it, right? Is it buyers remorse? They'll defend gamepad while frothing at the mouth, and yet, every time someone plays KB+M against them, they'll say it's unfair and demand a ban.
25a440 No.15915614
>>15915201
Microsoft has authorized the keyboard and mouse on Xbox One recently but now it's up to the studios and the devs.
That said, I doubt it's better to use the keyboard and mouse on console when most of the games are running at 30fps.
f25251 No.15915616
Trackballfags are almost as bad as crtfags.
e7f04e No.15915621
>>15915201
Been tried before. A PC-like console (Steambox) with k&m support failed miserably.
Meanwhile the consoles with regular controllers succeeded greatly.
da39d7 No.15915622
>>15915604
It might brand loyalty based on the limitations of their wallet. Not many people can afford to buy all consoles and pc games. There are good and bads to each game setup based on what it's designed for but you have to be an idiot if you don't think kb+m is the superior choice for games like fps and rts games. Console fps and rts always have to compensate for lack of kb+m because controllers weren't built for the amount of reflex and input those games have.
961ffa No.15915628
>>15915621
That's not what the steambox ended up being. IF it HAD been "A PC-like console" it might NOT have failed miserably. Instead what they ended up doing was selling their license to make shitty overpriced prebuilt computers in their name, effectively producing nothing of value and losing whatever credit their name might have earned them in the hardware business in the process.
1bd4ad No.15915632
at least the consolefags arent posturing about how gamepads have greater accuracy in movement anymore.
0235b5 No.15915644
>>15915339
You sound like an underage who has never touched one. Trackballs are debatably more accurate then a mouse but are undoubtedly far better than controller shitsticks.
944ab1 No.15915645
>>15915632
They do. Modifier keys and mouse input is not a meaningful alternative. If you think otherwise, you haven't used either enough and are clearly falling back to fanboyism.
a58115 No.15915659
Because Gyroscopic and stick is better than trackball dumbass.
e288f2 No.15915666
It all would depend on normalfags. They are the ones who even declare controllers as somehow better then a keyboard and mouse. I doubt they would be able to function with a trackball on a controller so it would never happen.
e7f04e No.15915670
>>15915628
Just saying. Consoles and controllers are here to stay.
If even influential Valve failed to make a successful k&m console, who honestly can?
961ffa No.15915671
>>15915645
Very very rarely does the full range of motion relative to your camera actually matter, and usually only in games where you don't have camera control to begin with. When you control the camera with the mouse and move relative to the camera facing, you have effectively superior mobility to dual stick input anyway because of the fluidity of changing your facing.
9d0c4f No.15915672
>>15915290
>>15915275
You only use 1 stick in fighting games anyway.
944ab1 No.15915673
>>15915671
>Very very rarely does the full range of motion relative to your camera actually matter,
Same is true as needing a pointer level of precision in games. In the games it matters in, of which there's hundreds, it really, really matters and can't be replicated with 4 movement keys and a mouse.
>When you control the camera with the mouse and move relative to the camera facing
What genres is this good for? First person shooters? Cover shooters? Basically genres it barely matters in?
961ffa No.15915676
>>15915673
Anything with a first or third person perspective, including both shooters and "action" games.
961ffa No.15915681
>>15915676
Basically everything from Doom to Dark Souls runs better with a mouse. The only perspective where a stick might be better is a fixed overhead camera like certain twin-stick shooters.
a0de1f No.15915769
>>15915217
Full KBM would still have the advantage since they can strafe dance more effectively. An analog stick has a marginal delay as it moves from one side to the other while KBM goes immediately from fully in one direction to fully in the other direction as keys are pressed.
944ab1 No.15915836
>>15915676
only things with pointer controls.
> Dark Souls runs better with a mouse
absolutely not.
>certain twin-stick shooters.
always better with controller. Having full range of movement for a cursor in games like hotline miami is a detriment to how they play.
a48038 No.15916071
>>15915836
>absolutely not
Absolute denial. KB+M has no downsides in DS and allows easy free aiming of spells and items. You can easily beat the whole game without locking on once.
>certain twin-stick shooters
literally who
It's the same shit with gamepadfags every time, they'll get cornered and bring up platformers with fixed camera position and literal who shooters not even they played.
0ed39f No.15916142
Explain how rocking your thumb for 2D directional input is objectively inferior to and less comfortable than using your entire hand on four keys.
>>15915681
>Doom
>better with mouse
>a game where you can't fucking aim
f32a5f No.15916158
>>15915201
Why not motion controls? It works quite well in Splatoon
915ccd No.15916250
>>15916142
you can aim, just not vertically. with a d pad or stick, you're limited by the max sensitivity you have it set to. it's really hard to make fine movements like that.
with a mouse, it's easy to aim finely, and then whip around 180 degrees instantly if you need to. some mice also have sniper buttons.
73fabc No.15916279
>>15915275
Bullshit. Most motions are easier to do on a keyboard, that's why hitbox controller is a thing.
8db9df No.15916323
>keyboard and mouse would still be superior
You were so close but had to go and bone it. How many times have I seen this thread at this point? A trackball is infinitely more reflexive and responsive for a yuge range of vidya once you get a handle on it.
e833f0 No.15916412
>>15916279
get rid of the scrubber in the hitbox or have nkro for a keyboard and you can do churayzee shit not intended in certain fightan games, not legal for evo however
38737e No.15916429
>>15916323
Exactly. Look at all those pro E-sports players that use trackballs.
a340cb No.15916463
>>15916429
>ESPORZ niggers having any bearing at all on the quality of controllers
f3f4f0 No.15916514
>>15915340
Have you tried just pressing them like a normal human. You only need to pretty them lightly for them to register, they're digital inputs so there's no pressure sensitivity.
f3f4f0 No.15916516
>>15916279
Doing P1 side QCB on hitbox is too uncomfortable for me
f01505 No.15916530
>>15916516
Can it be that you are shitter.
sasasasasasasasasasasasasasa
See? I did it right now just fine, and I haven't played a fighting game in months.
aff262 No.15916548
>>15915201
Or just enable mouse and keyboard across the board and tell people that if they want to relax and chill with a controller, then they can do that - but if they want to remain competetive, then they probably shouldn't handicap themselves by using perhaps the WORST form of input for accuracy. That was the beauty of Quake III Arena for the Dreamcast. They just threw everybody in on the same servers, and if you were getting your ass handed to you, then they had a mouse and keyboard they'd sell you. As well as a VGA cable so you could actually see what you were shooting at.
If they're going to segregate Mouse and Keyboard users into their own matchmaking ranks - then shouldn't they also segregate steering wheel users in racing games? Flight stick users in flight sims? Arcade pads users in fighters? Those gay ass little plastic guitars for Guitar Hero/RockBand if they ever revive those series?
If you want to play competitively, then learn to use the tools of the trade or else just be honest with everyone and admit that you don't really give a flying fuck about competitive play - that you're just intimidated by all those keys and high dpi pointing devices in the same way your mom is intimidated by all those buttons on a standard controller.
Just make KB & Mouse standard and force every single FPS game to utilize them. People will bitch and scream and complain, and in two years time, nobody is going to give the slightest fuck about controllers.
13d823 No.15916555
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Developers should really start implementing gyro support already.
a340cb No.15916568
>>15916555
The way that he's talking about motion controls makes it sound like he just wants to use KB+M.
1c4cd6 No.15916573
Only FPS and real-time strategy games truly benefit from the keyboard/mice combo. Everything else is playable and more enjoyable with a controller by default, and that's not dwelling into the peripherals for specific games (the drum for Taiko Tatsujin, the wheel for racing games, etc).
6f9c8f No.15916581
>>15916548
>Or just enable mouse and keyboard across the board and tell people that if they want to relax and chill with a controller, then they can do that - but if they want to remain competetive, then they probably shouldn't handicap themselves by using perhaps the WORST form of input for accuracy.
They won't do that. If they allowed mouse and keyboard on consoles then they would just implement a maximum cursor movement to gimp the mouse speed down to the same as D pad/joystick. Additionally they wouldn't do it because that means that they would have to sell the mouse and keyboard along with the console. Modern consoles don't even come with a second controller anymore.
Not to mention that most console players sit in front of a tv on a chair or couch which is not really ideal for keyboards and is impossible for mice. Additionally there aren't analog keyboards so they are (potentially) inferior to controllers, depending on the system spec and how a particular game is designed.
Really your entire post is terrible.
>If you want to play competitively, then learn to use the tools of the trade or else just be honest with everyone and admit that you don't really give a flying fuck about competitive play - that you're just intimidated by all those keys and high dpi pointing devices in the same way your mom is intimidated by all those buttons on a standard controller.
And you've got unnecessarily bad case of no fun butthurt as well.
aff262 No.15916582
>>15915659
>Because having two entirely different but over-lapping motion actuators you have to keep track of is more intuitive than just having to develop muscle memory for one standard and universal aiming input.
Are you seriously retarded? It's way better than analog, year, but holy shit gyros are no replacement for a mouse by any means. You can't use gyros for generalized orientation because you'd break your wrist trying to pull a 180, and since the gyro calibrates at zero to it's current position when you engage fine aiming, if you're not careful you're going to have to extend your hands into some awkward angles just to get a full range of motion if you're not careful. Otherwise, if the gyro is always on and calibrated prior to gameplay or auto-calibrates - then you have to maintain a constant ready positioning, without the ability to relax even momentarily or else your camera is going to drift in the direction of your hand orientation.
You end up getting the same problem in VR where the head tracking and stick based orientation are almost at odds because they are completely separate but similarly overlapping positioning inputs, and ends up a completely unintuitive mess. At least until headsets become wireless and room-scale design becomes the norm never ever if they want it to actually sell. But at the very least head-tracking is a more natural input since you're already used to turning your head to focus on distant objects… rather than relying on hand positioning. That gyro-aiming shit is one-step removed from wagglin levels of terrible.
1e8f11 No.15916640
>a keyboard is superior to a controller specifically designed for gaming
Out of all the shitty "arguments" I've seen to go against consoles, this has to be the worst I've ever seen. If your argument is that having a more compact design that allows for quicker reaction times than that of a keyboard and a mouse makes the latter components "better" you must be completely delusional.
Also:
>A fucking trackball for gaming
If anyone sincerely believes this allows for smoother and out and out better gameplay said person has to be retarded.
a33615 No.15916654
>>15916640
>a keyboard is superior to a controller specifically designed for gaming
It's funny how you consolefags always omit mouse when you make arguments like that. Also while it is true that gamepad was designed for gaming, but the thing is that it was designed as universal controller for as many genres as possible. In reality gamepad is ultimate master of none, it is passable in several genres (usually the ones where controller type is not important to begin with, like platformers), and is absolute shit for everything else, including such "console" genres as fighting games. Even if the game is better played with gamepad, it happens because it was made with gamepad in mind, not the other way around.
6f9c8f No.15916660
>>15916654
>Even if the game is better played with gamepad, it happens because it was made with gamepad in mind, not the other way around.
Which most console games ARE in fact made with a gamepad in mind.
e833f0 No.15916669
>>15916660
not all console games are games
see god of war
c471b7 No.15916680
>>15916660
Incidentally, most of console games ARE trash, at least gameplay-wise. Coincidence?
0ed39f No.15916685
>>15916680
Most games are bad, so no.
a594ea No.15916688
>>15916142
I always enjoyed accuracy and responsiveness of a keyboard, but I admittedly never tried to to play anything seriously, nor do I even bothered to learn how to use a pad well.
If we ignore analog stick, left hand on both a gamepad and a keyboard does just 4 directions and 2 additional buttons. Why is our left hand so lazy?
>>15916555 czech'd
>>15916568
It's not in already? I remember playing Army of Two with a friend once and rocking the pad to make adjustments. Is my own memory lying to me?
1e8f11 No.15916701
>>15916654
>omit the mouse when it requires a flat table with plenty of space on it
>compact
The rest of your so-called "argument" you could easily make the same exact argument against pc controls simply by stating that a game was designed to be played with a gamepad but can have a keyboard instead. Also, your neglecting the fact that if gaming devs fuck up on implementing fluid gamepad controls, it's on them not the controller itself. Your blaming the tool for the workers incompitence here.
e0e39a No.15916703
>>15916581
>Additionally they wouldn't do it because that means that they would have to sell the mouse and keyboard along with the console. Modern consoles don't even come with a second controller anymore.
<The most common input device in the world must be packaged with a video game console.
Next you will be saying that they would have to package TVs along with consoles.
17591f No.15916759
>>15916703
Got a package for you anon
95a6b5 No.15916764
>>15915201
I remember a YouTube channel bought and demonstrated a keyboard and mouse for the 360 by playing CoD. He wiped the fucking floor with everybody else in the match and half the comments were just complaints about how unfair it was.
3b1b31 No.15916830
>>15916463
>the best players in the world are irrelevant when it comes to how video games are played
If it's the marketing word that is bothering you, old school arena shooter/RTS pro gamers didn't use a trackball either.
3b1b31 No.15916837
>>15916573
I beat all the Dark Souls games with keyboard and mouse, if I had to use a controller I wouldn't even get past the tutorial bosses.
5ddc9c No.15916846
>>15916837
I'm sure if you lost some weight and did some handstands you could eventually start walking around on your hands. You'd still be better at it if you used your feet instead.
3b1b31 No.15916874
>>15916846
Controllers are the harder option, you need to lock on to see the monster you want to attack after all.
5ddc9c No.15916883
>>15916874
You don't actually, and lock on is generally a practice dissuaded by better players.
b9a868 No.15916901
>>15915201
i remember back when consolecucks would say controllers were superior. Now they've done a full 180 to not just admit they are superior but now they say it's out-right cheating lmao.
38737e No.15916908
>>15916883
Interesting, do you have any posts/videos of better players discussing this?
a4994e No.15916917
I can't believe so many people still use controllers in the current year. The things are terrible. They're slow and lacking in precision. RTS and shooters are close to unplayable with them.
a4994e No.15916929
>>15915622
> Not many people can afford to buy all consoles and pc games.
No need to. Just build an average PC and play older games and stuff that's on sale. You can get a great gaming experience on a PC and a budget. Only retarded normalfaggot NPCs play on consoles.
5ddc9c No.15916945
>>15916908
No, but I'm right here. DS2/BB/DS3 addressed how lock on hurts your performance by allowing a lot more movement while having the camera rotate around the lock on target and the player not as much. In Dark Souls and Demon's Souls it forces you to play rigidly and limits your movement options and slows down the game considerably. You can easily dodge most moves by just running around them but if you're locked on you're mostly reduced to rolling for sudden movements which is far more limited. You also would be crippled by a keyboard/mouse setup for this reason as your movement range is much smaller.
95a6b5 No.15916969
>>15916917
It really depends on genre. KB+M and controllers are suited towards different types of games.
38737e No.15916970
>>15916945
So by "better players" you just meant you and are completely full of shit.
3b1b31 No.15916972
>>15916945
How do you press buttons if you're thumbing both sticks at once?
5ddc9c No.15916975
>>15916972
claw grip
>>15916970
I don't watch dark souls youtubers or join discussion on it outside of when it's mentioned. There's also pivoting which is impossible if you use lock on, seriously limiting your options as the game always has latency when tracking other players or even enemies.
3b1b31 No.15916978
>>15916945
>You also would be crippled by a keyboard/mouse setup for this reason as your movement range is much smaller.
Also this is just plain sonygger bullshit, you never need more than 8 directions. Full analog direction input might feel smoother, but it's 100% not necessary.
5ddc9c No.15916993
>>15916978
>you never need more than 8 directions.
>640K ought to be enough for anybody.
Just because you've never had anything better doesn't mean more accuracy is bad. This is as dumb as saying you don't need pointer controls for a shooter because the game will aim for you. 60% accuracy is enough for anybody, 100% isn't necessary. How stupid.
58a693 No.15917004
Controllers were not made for fucking FPS games for fuck sake.
5ddc9c No.15917007
>>15917004
the good news is nobody has made a good fps in a long time, so that solves one problem.
3b1b31 No.15917119
>>15916993
You don't need that kind of accuracy in dark souls.
95c6ae No.15917213
>>15915670
>a successful k&m console
because AGAIN, this wasn't the issue.
>>15916548
>sell people a living room device
>then proceed to fuck over all those normalfags that pay your bills by allowing m&kb
>posts an image depicting the quality of his post
also
>If you want to play competitively, then learn to use the tools of the trade
or not be a retarded and just buy a pc where that input is common? why the fuck would you buy a console in the first place?
116e53 No.15917234
>>15915201
They don't want to stop manufactuering and selling controllers.
5eec17 No.15917244
>>15916142
>DOOM
>better with mouse
>a game where you can't fucking aim
<not using SR50
c6e4fb No.15917259
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15915628
>>15915604
Because it's the excuse consolebabbys need to justify auto-aim. If you included a couch controller that was even mediocre and built games around it, especially with today's focus on online multiplayer, you'd have to make actual games where skill mattered rather than Dora the Explorer-tier movies disguised as "games".
>>15915275
>>15915673
>>15916573
Gamepads are superior to KB+M for something with 3rd-person camera-relative movement unlocked from your avatar, like Mario 64, but inferior for games where the camera is locked to the avatar (Tomb Raider). Aside from that niche, they mainly serve as a jack of all trades in place of proper genre-specific controllers (wheels, HOTAS, pedals, etc.), especially for games with a lot of genre switching, where gamepads are inferior to those controllers, but superior to KB+M.
>>15915295
>>15915321
>>15916158
>>15916555 (checked, great vid)
>>15916582
I think the main problem with gyros and the pointers is that they're used by devs almost exclusively like lightguns (positionally absolute, as a tablet stylus/puck), with the best that can be done to aim "beyond the screen" being to push against the edges (motion relative, like a joystick). What's needed is an equivalent of lifting your mouse off the pad to recenter it or your fingers off the trackball.
Basically a "mousedown" button that has to be held down for it to be tracked, and which would let you move back to the other "side" of the screen without sending input when the button is released, to let you use a waggle controller like a mouse/trackball (motion absolute).
>>15916548
Trolling aside, matchmaking would actually sweep any problems with this under the rug, as twinstick retards would all be quarantined to the bottom rungs of every online game's ladder.
>>15915644
>>15916640
I've intermittently switched between mice & trackballs (including both the smaller <1" single-digit ball and middle fingers >2" ball designs) over the years, and IMHO it's almost entirely a matter of taste. About the most I'd say is trackballs are more precise for small movements, while mice are more precise for fast movements.
>>15915628
Agreed, the CHEAPEST Steam Machines were $600, while the AVERAGE price was north of $1k. Especially during the Kinekt/Move/Motion+ doldrums of the late 7th-gen, homebuilt rigs were stomping on consoles in terms of price (using new parts at MSRP) and specs, Steam Machines should've used economies of scale to undercut and obliterate consoles at ghetto big box stores, not try to milk Redditors for even more profits.
>>15915632
>>15916978
Analog keyswitches for analog WASD would be awesome
95c6ae No.15917284
>>15917259
>Gamepads are superior to KB+M for something
they are superior to literally everything you want to play on a couch. good luck telling some normalfags they need to play hunched over the coffee table or get their girlfriends/wives to agree to keep some stupid shit in the living room to use it properly.
>you'd have to make actual games where skill mattered rather than Dora the Explorer-tier movies disguised as "games".
since everybody is playing with the same input device (=same handicap) this is some full on retard argument.
c6e4fb No.15917308
>>15917284
>they are superior to literally everything you want to play on a couch
The entire point of this thread is specifically that there are and always have been countless superior alternative couch-friendly input devices for genres ill-suited to D-pads/thumbsticks.
>since everybody is playing with the same input device (=same handicap) this is some full on retard argument.
It's not just a "handicap" or a "balance issue". Gamepads are such a severe impediment that developers remove entire mechanics in favor of literally making the game play itself to accommodate gamepads. You aren't playing the game worse, you're simply not playing the game at all.
Fixing gamepads and the games played with them would allow whole new genres to actually exist on consoles.
e06a82 No.15917340
>>15915324
What's the censored bit in that pic?
95c6ae No.15917349
>>15917308
>for genres ill-suited to D-pads/thumbsticks.
yes, I can see especially consolecucks buy dozens of different devices depending on the genre and lazy devs start supporting all of them just because when they can't even do basic shit to support a single input device.
the reason gamepads work is because they are a good enough general input device for most cases to outweigh their shortcomings. no one says they're the absolute perfect input device.
>Gamepads are such a severe impediment that developers remove entire mechanics in favor of literally making the game play itself to accommodate gamepads
no shit, devs adapting to the dominant input scheme that's used by literally billions? and it's still a retarded argument because fun fact, m&kb also have limitations devs design for.
>You aren't playing the game worse, you're simply not playing the game at all.
I'm sure you have some specific example for that hyperbole?
>Fixing gamepads and the games played with them would allow whole new genres to actually exist on consoles.
like?
c6e4fb No.15917398
>>15917349
>dozens of different devices
A mere augmentation to the "standard" gamepad design (thumb trackball, gyro, IR camera, lighthouse, ultrasound, etc.) would instantly make it, even if not equal to KB+M, at least capable of the same basic functions.
>m&kb also have limitations devs design for.
True enough, though PC users are usually entrusted with enough configurability to use other devices too.
>I'm sure you have some specific example for that hyperbole?
Compare Metroid Prime (doesn't even pretend to be a shooter, explicit auto-aim) or Goldeneye (auto-aim can be disabled in the options, and the character's hand is seen moving when it aims for you) to a typical post-Halo/CoD:MW console "shooter". The former are honest in focusing on non-shooter mechanics or admitting you're a cheater, while the latter are pure deception.
>like?
Actual FPS, actual RTS, actual RTT, actual party-based RPGs.
94c269 No.15922263
>>15916463
They're literally the ultimate tourneyfags; if they thought that playing upside down or having shaved heads would give them an edge they'd all be bald and using inversion chairs.
bc7173 No.15923307
Keyboard and mouse fags can be some of the most cancerous bunch I've ever come across. If you genuinely think that a mouse and a keyboard is superior to a gamepad or a controller, you must be some stupid motherfucker. It is the bottom of the barrel as far as gameplay goes (besides exceptions like strategy games, simulations, or puzzle games) is by far inferior to a controller or a gamepad. It's about as retarded as saying that a textpad from an old cellphone and a TV controller (in combination) would be superior to something that has been refined- specifically for gaming over the decades. All that keyboards were designed to be better at is typing, not at gaming.Just because you suck at using a controller or gamepad, doesn't mean that others do not excel at using it.
bc825c No.15923439
reminder that valve engineered a controller to solve this problem, but it still doesn't hold a candle to kb+m in any semi-competitive setting.
e833f0 No.15923447
>>15923307
In some games you can input a forward and back and do unintended behavior, see super mario bros and certain fightan games
a9aa01 No.15923529
>>15923439
Yes, and then valve locked it to a god awful configuration utility that you have to go through vavle's big picture interface to use insuring that no one would ever want to use it.
d88b13 No.15923580
>>15915340
Hvae you tried not having little babby fingers?
402407 No.15923588
The controllerfags in this thread love using their mythical level of retardation to make arguments impossible without losing a lot of IQ points.
79c964 No.15923631
>>15923588
>Mythical levels of retardation
What you mean like bringing in aim assist argument? Something that is also heavily involved in PC games nowadays too? No, that couldn't possibly be a stupid argument.
402407 No.15923689
>>15923631
>Something that is also heavily involved in PC games nowadays too?
People call those aimbots.
08d14e No.15923767
At least KB&M fags can bust out a controller of their choice when they feel like it and go right back to KB&M.
bead51 No.15923780
wew 3 simultaneous threads
are we being raided?
a340cb No.15923880
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15922263
>>15916830
It's actually the opposite, a lot of them end up using whatever they're used to because it's all they had and what they used to train. TL;DR somebody brought a fucking PS1 controller to EVO and won.
cdad07 No.15923921
>>15915340
>this is your life on soy
338cdb No.15924001
>>15915769
and yet it'll still have the downside of 8 axis digital movement which is far more important since it give you more options, even then your point fails to consider the lag the key-board's buttons cause in relation to your fingers' movement.
both have input lag, but only one has the draw-back of restricting movement dramatically.
d0b72f No.15924024
>>15923880
>somebody brought a fucking PS1 controller to EVO and won.
does this need to be explained? it should be obvious why that doesn't matter and it's not even worth mentioning.
>a highly trained professional artist brought a fucking pencil and a charcoal stick to an art competition and beat a bunch of inexperienced retards who were using overpriced cintiqs and overpowered PCs.
he probably could have won on a ds2, 3, or 4, because the physical mechanism you need to play the game are almost identical enough that you could make it work with any of them, but he uses a ps1 controller because if it ain't broke, don't fix it. an expensive controller doesn't make you more skilled.
c7257e No.15924087
>>15924024
He probably uses the OG PlayStation controller instead of the DS1, 2, or 3 because the grips on it are longer and way more comfortable to hold. I never had an issue with the stubbier shape of the DualShock, but the few times I've intentionally used my OG controller I couldn't help but notice how good it felt. It's one of the reasons I love the DS4 so much, it feels like a modern take on the old design they abandoned for so long.
d83bba No.15924098
>>15923307
This isn't /tv/ friendo. Everyone not born out of a retarded mother knows that mouse is the better control surface for FPSes.
Please, relieve yourself of what little brain you have left and kindle go suck a nigger dick at anywhere to you best convenience, and thank you!
4fb9ef No.15924132
>>15923307
>not at gaming
You don't explain why this is because you're a stupid fuck. With a keyboard you've got more buttons in easier reach and don't need to have a grip on the damn thing.
06330c No.15924234
>>15924132
>Have more buttons to use
Count how many buttons are on a standard controller nowadays. There are 14 in total on the entire controller xbox/ps controller (that involve gameplay). That is more than enough to handle pretty much any desired action you wish to do in pretty much any game you're playing. There's also this thing called hitting the left or right bumper and the d-pad buttons at the same time. So, technically you could have 22 mapped action buttons on your controller at once. Not only what you bring up is a non-issue, it's also probably the worst argument anyone has ever made in this entire thread. You should feel ashamed of yourself retard.
>need to have a grip on
That beats the hell out of staying hunched over in exactly the same spot and not allowing you to have any sort of movement at all.
>more buttons in easier reach
Not at all true. Literally all you leave to your mouse hand is only two buttons while your other hand has to manage everything else. What often happens is that your left hand (especially for hotkeys or something similar) has to reach over and click something in order to use it completely disrupting a lot of your movement.
d0b72f No.15924252
>>15924234
>Literally all you leave to your mouse hand is only two buttons while your other hand has to manage everything else
>macro mice don't exist
06330c No.15924260
>>15924252
>you can't compare a standard kb+m setup to a standard controller because my specialty item exists with even more ackward controls
6582f7 No.15924272
If a gamepad is viable way to play FPSs, then why are consolefags are so quick to ban kb&m?
e833f0 No.15924274
>>15924260
>you can't compare a standard controller setup to a standard controller because my specialty item exists with even more ackward controls
961ffa No.15924275
>>15924260
A standard gaming mouse these days has a total of 7 button inputs. Left/right, middle, scroll up/down, and two side buttons. It's still one short of the right side of a controller, but you make it up by having far more on the keyboard instead. You should never be short of buttons when binding things to M+KB unless you are retarded.
5227d5 No.15924278
>>15924260
>mice having only two buttons is standard
Nigger what fucking decade you typing this shit from? A scroll wheel alone adds another 3 actions at minimum that can be mapped to a mouse.
dfc790 No.15924279
>>15924260
look normalnigger. explain why controlling macros with your thumb is so different from pressing face buttons with the exact same thumb, and i'll take you seriously. macro mouse is superior, because guess what? hands aren't meant to do claw grip. you can't control a right analogue stick, and press triangle at the same time in a way that makes any fucking semblance ergonomic sense.
>anything i'm not familiar with is a specialty item
in a world full of retards who have only assembled ikea furniture, a claw hammer may as well be an alien artifact. that doesn't mean it's special, it means you have down's syndrome.
dfc790 No.15924289
>>15924278
>>15924275
it's not just 3. a good scroll wheel has up, down, left, right scroll, and middle click. the scroll wheel alone has 5 inputs. with left and right click, and the two side buttons which are usually default mapped to back and forward for web browsing, that's 9 buttons on any standard mouse that isn't a brick of shit.
06330c No.15924300
>>15924278
I was talking about action buttons you dumb fuck.
>>15924279
>A gaming mouse (or a mouse with hotkeys on them) IS FUCKING STANDARD.
Shut the fuck up and kill yourself already retard.
>>15924289
>a good scroll wheel has up, down, left, right scroll
>Directions from when using a scroller is the same as action buttons
In that case, a controller has 8 more "action buttons", who the fuck knew, eh?
fcd485 No.15924315
>>15924279
>you can't control a right analogue stick, and press triangle at the same time
Then explain to me why you can't go forward or backward in a game when you require your middle finger to press a different button in a game? Checkmate athiests.
Also:
>You can't your index finger to hit the triangle button
a340cb No.15924324
>>15924024
>a controller that doesn't even have a fucking stick, used to play a fighting game, is comparable to an artist using traditional means
Imagine this level of delusion.
>an expensive controller doesn't make you more skilled.
So you admit that what the "pros" use has no bearing on this conversation.
ebdcb8 No.15924325
>>15924300
Did you fall asleep in 1998 and wake up yesterday? Pic related is not a "standard mouse" in 2018
961ffa No.15924331
>>15924300
Middle mouse and the two side buttons on a STANDARD mouse make good action buttons. Scroll not really, and I've yet to actually encounter one with side scrolling, that's a gimmick you won't find on anything actually good.
That's 5 good action buttons. A controller only has 6 for the right hand, so that really only leaves you with a single extra button to worry about on the keyboard, which is no big deal at all.
128213 No.15924447
>>15924331
Can you count at all? That's three buttons left to your right hand for the mouse. Also, a standard controller has 7 buttons in total for your right hand not six.
>>15924324
He's an autist. There's no use talking to them as pc niggers (who play only games on PC and gloat about it) are a bunch of know-it-alls who think they know everything. Which is a damn shame since I love playing games both on the PC and consoles.
a340cb No.15924475
>>15924447
>pc niggers (who play only games on PC and gloat about it)
They still exist? I thought that gayben's bullshit made PC users as miserable as everybody else years ago.
08db83 No.15924476
>>15924447
what are you talking about? i grew up on consoles. i don't play the new ones anymore, but if i'm playing a game that's suited for a controller, then i use a controller. FPS games as well as many others are undeniably suited for keyboard and mouse. sure, you could theoretically control the movement with an analogue stick, and aim with a mouse in your right hand, but that makes no sense, or if it does, nobody has invented and normalized that kind of control scheme in a way that's actually usable.
if it isn't, then explain why console FPS designed for analogue sticks always have aim assist (also known as training wheels) and why keyboard and mouse support on consoles hasn't been standard this entire time because "buuhhh dat's unfair!". nobody here has claimed that keyboard and mouse is better for everything, but i see a lot of lobotomites claiming that gamepads with analogue sticks are superior for everything. they're not. there are pros and cons to both methods, depending on what kind of game you're playing. if you claim that a game better suited for mouse control (FPS, RTS, etc) is somehow better with analogue shits, then you're an idiot. if you think keyboard and mouse is better for playing mario sunshine in dolphin, then you're an idiot.
128213 No.15924552
>>15924476
What does any of that bullshit you typed have anything to do with what I typed?
>A kb+m is better for fps games and rts games because I can't mismatch a different control scheme with my favorite one
>A kb+m is better than a controller because there are people who play with them can be better than those with a kb+m
>A kb+m is better than a controller just because aim assists are standardized on consoles now (nevermind that it could be because of the volume of children on them now)
In early ps2 games (and earlier) aim assists weren't that common at all.
>I was raised on the console
You aren't fooling anyone with your bullshit or your strawman arguments (such as you saying it's "unfair" for keyboards to play on consoles). Question. Do you have autism?
961ffa No.15924563
>>15924447
Controller has 8, but two of them aren't good action buttons. Stick press and Start are both worse than scroll wheel up/down.
You are the one who can't count though, left mouse, right mouse, middle mouse (click), mouse button 4 (thumb 1), and mouse button 5 (thumb 2). Every not-shit mouse has those two
7df460 No.15924581
>>15924279
I really like that animu girl
208191 No.15924591
>>15916945
mixed lock on is better then fully locked or fully unlocked
for example just off the top of my head, certain attacks like katana leaping attack in dark souls 3 have this crazy tracking and range, where as if you perform them without lockon they end up going in a small, strait line
it also allows you to face the enemy while moving in crazy directions like away from them to an extent
of course fully unlocked is better then fully locked, but mixed is better still
06330c No.15924665
How could anyone possibly say that using awsd on a keyboard is more precise for walking in the direction you want to walk in than an analog stick that has 360 movement all around?
aa7532 No.15924695
>>15924685
This proves absolutely nothing. I personally don't care which control scheme "won" here as it is impossible to test which one is more competitive than the other as you fail to factor in the skill of the player into it.
1fd934 No.15924722
>>15924695
Seven years and counting, and console peasants are STILL mad.
06330c No.15924735
>>15924722
>Still mad when people can beat you with half a controller
f14aee No.15924763
>>15924665
It makes for 8 directions and is used in combination with the view which is controlled by the more accurate mouse.
Those 8 directions are enough and you don't even want to make subtle forward movements while you are walking left.
It makes everything more predictable.
4fb9ef No.15924803
>>15924665
Tapping A & D is easier than slapping stick around like a spastic. Someone with a stick to control movement and a mouse to aim is going to get their shit destroyed by mouse and keyboard.
5c17d7 No.15924815
>>15915201
Just make a "Sony mouse+keyboard" and make retards buy it if they want to be up to the challenge.
5227d5 No.15924826
>>15924300
I have not, in over a decades worth of office experience, encountered a single fucking mouse in use (apart from the odd macfag) that did not at minimum offer two additional buttons for back/forward.
So I really must ask, what manner of fucking backwards shithole do you live in where even normalnigger equipment is something you can't wrap your head around?
1fd934 No.15924854
>>15924819
>youtube
>fortnite
Fucking kill yourself.
5ddc9c No.15924865
>>15924826
Most people only have 3 button mice
f02ca8 No.15924875
>>15924854
>hating on Basednite
e17ac7 No.15924883
>>15924665
PC niggers are never honest in debates. Even if you pin them down on an issue they'll always try to slither out of it somehow. Just like complete 360 degree movement or mouses you have to buy on fucking eBay as standard equipment.
5ddc9c No.15924900
>>15924883
muh mouse muhfugga
86c9bb No.15924909
f02ca8 No.15924910
>>15924883
>PC niggers
What else do you expect after years of MUH PC MASTER RACE all over the internet?
a62c10 No.15924933
I'm trying to imagine how paying with a trackball in place of a second analog sick will work and I can't see it. I played with a Valve Steam controller and aside from a proper D-pad the touch pad for right stick is much more ergonomic. The controller is still shit. Will not recommend. Unlike trackballs you don't need to keep your hand on the ball at all times to guide you're precision. Touch pads can center your aim when you press the center of the pad and then you can guide your thumb with greater precision to aim. When you take your hand off of the trackball you risk slightly moving your aim. Or even worse you risk slipping the ball to hit the face buttons. If you have extra shoulder buttons this can work better on a controller set up with a touch screen. Trackballs are made to use with your fingertips and a free off hand that can hit hundreds of macro keys. Have you tried using your thumb to move a typical trackball precisely? Unlike a touch pad and a stick you bend your thumb more which tires out my thumb worse than sliding on a pad or flicking a stick where my thumb is relatively relaxed.
Gyro aiming is the next natural step in console shooters. By using the gyro and thumb stick together you can correct your aim with almost mouse-like precision by controlling your head, the stick, and your eyes, the gyro, seperately.
I've used competitive trackballs at a former friend's house. They usually have the ball on the side of the grip where your thumb is relaxed or you use your index finger and click with thumb. Still my thumb got more tired from using a track ball like that in a gaming setting. I can see the application for modeling where a sturdy hand is necessary. Not for games.
Speaking of controllers that had trackballs the Bandai Apple Pippin had one. They put the trackball in the center of the controller because using a trackball requires sacrificing grip of one side of the controller to use. Thumb trackball might work if they are a side grip to the controller and you replace face buttons with a bumper for each finger. However not everyone has the same size hands which is why face buttons have been the standard for a long time.
1ea66e No.15924958
>>15924665
You don’t need precise movement for an FPS, only precise aiming.
e7f857 No.15924968
>>15924958
and then there are bunnyhop maps
11a52c No.15925044
>>15924476
>It would be "unfair" to have a kb+m on a console game
Actually it has nothing to do with that at all pctard. It's all about marketing retard. If consoles started to allow that sort of shit (while standardizing it) it would have absolutely no money to gain by doing this. If they allowed keyboards (and programmed it) it would cost an astounding amount of money for updating the users and for simply programming it (and that's for gaming devs as well). Also, you're forgetting that if a controller breaks, there are very good odds of customers coming back and buying more. On a kb+m, there wouldn't be any profit because it may not even be from thier company to begin with. Even if we were to say that they could make thier own specialty keyboards and mouses, who in the world would even be willing to buy such a niche item? No one. And that's the reason why it isn't allowed on consoles not for your fictitious made up reasons.
>Heh let's say that a controller is better at all the games no one even cares about and pretend that I was ever a consolefag
You are a living joke.
01368a No.15925056
When can we stop using shit controllers and invent something better? The mouse has an incredible amount of high speed precision but is limited in inputs and there's no standard for more than 3. Analog sticks are great for directional input but you're stuck using a shitty casualfag controller with it.
1667c5 No.15925068
>>15925056
dick controls, make it happen
9f7b2c No.15925074
>>15925068
we already have a "joystick"
7b2af4 No.15925088
>>15924098
>mouse is the better control surface for FPS
And that's pretty much it. Most games just work better with controllers, since keyboard movement is limited to 8 fixed directions and no fine speed control.
427a7c No.15925163
Diablo feels so much better with a controller it's like a different game.
a62c10 No.15925188
>>15925056
What's this controller? I'm curious.
9208bd No.15925261
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15925188
It's a keyboard called the Datahand. It's supposed to be super ergonomic. I would like one but they don't make them anymore.
Also, some people have tinkered with theirs and added stuff like a trackball.
There are some really cool input methods that deviate from the traditional keyboard (like the Alphagrip, the controller looking one), but it's a shame that they never stuck with people, because they really seem to be superior than keyboards in some aspects, and nowadays you don's see many new input methods that innovate in any way.
9208bd No.15925270
>>15925261
Fuck, here are the pictures.
e3b1bf No.15925290
How the heck do you play Katamari on that?
1667c5 No.15925306
59794c No.15925369
>All this bullshiterry about gamepad being surperior
>Saying that number of keys on a keyboard vs the controller doesn't matter when this, and the functions of the mouse that allow for scrolling, pointing, dragging and highlighting, allow for creation of far superior and intuitive UIs in vidya that need to be simplified for consoles. Especially in FPS, don't you faggots tell me that simply pressing a button on a keyboard for changing weapons is not less obtuse than a fucking wheel
>The very fact that the number of the keys on a keyboard is the entire thing that allows for more complex genres like rougelike to be created
Gamepads are good for a few genres but the vast fucking majority of vidya would be better suited for keyboard and mouse.
bca433 No.15925394
d3d905 No.15925398
>>15925394
Nah just the usual shitstirrers that will say anything to get replies
a62c10 No.15925456
>>15925261
>>15925270
This should come back to market with a new lightweight design, tactile feedback, and USB3 support. It'll have a bunch with corporal tunnel victims. Then again we have touch screens now. Not sure how it can compete.
8a4f78 No.15925596
>>15916830
>we shouldn't try anything new with gaming controls because epic mlg esport leeches
You niggers are cuckchannier than what i thought.
0367a4 No.15925612
>>15925369
>Muh buttons
How the fuck is having 22 buttons not enough to play pretty much any game out there? Are you geniunly retarded?
>Highlighting
Unless you're playing a strategy game, there really is no use for this. Also, highlighting can easily be implemented with a gamepad. Stop acting like that isn't the case you disengenuous nigger.
>intuitive UIs
Now your pulling at straws at this point. Why would this need to be simplified for a console version considering we have enough buttons to do so?
>Weapon wheel
That's what the d-pad is typically for.
>the vast fucking majority of vidya would be better suited for keyboard and mouse
Except for stealth games, 3rd person games (both in fixed cam/non fixed cam don't fucking bullshit me here), racing games, vehicular combat, 3d/2d platformers, and fighting games. But sure, it's only a few.
bca433 No.15925618
>>15925612
Everything you've said is bullshit and you know it, there's no reason to play any game with a gamepad because a KB+M does everything 100x better
ebdcb8 No.15925638
>>15924865
>What's this is you speak of? Most people use serial ports. Most people use 1024x768 CRT vga monitors
When was the last time you used an average PC? Your view of what an average mouse is, is outdated by at least a decade. Here's an idea though, even if that is the average mouse, maybe it's a stupid idea to play games on rubber dome keyboard, and a ps/2 ball mouse you fishes out of the storage room of the shithole office you work at. Because of the versatility of pcs, you're going to have different hardware suited for different tasks. If the majority of people are using the majority of pcs in the world for mundate tasks like data entry and spreadsheets, then the "average mouse" is going to be suited for that. The average PC used for that stuff is also a toaster, probably running Windows XP.
If you wouldn't play a modern game on a cubicle turd, then why would you use any of it's other hardware? If you want to play games, sure you might have to go a little bit out of your way to get proper hardware, but it's not a big deal. You can get this shit at any best buy, or inferior but still adequate versions at Walmart. Since you apparently are stuck in 2005, 2 day shipping is really cheap, and often free, so even if the store doesn't have what you want, it's incredibly easy to just order it from a website and have it show up at your door a few days later.
Point being, saying "that's the average mouse" doesn't make sense, because playing a game isn't an average task. At minimum, you need a graphics card which, aside from games (and a few niche things like crypto mining, or rendering stuff in blender) there isn't a need to have one, so the "average computer" doesn't have one. "Average" means "not made for the task you're describing"
954f93 No.15925845
I don't play online. Although YES playing a JRPG with keyboard and mouse is disgusting people can do whatever they want with their system. No skin off my back.
f14aee No.15925965
>>15925638
>the "average computer" doesn't have one
The average nonserver computer has a cheap one or integrated graphics. Both are better than having everything rendered by the CPU which is slow as fuck and looks ugly with all kinds of tearing etc.
>the average mouse
Anon is right 3 buttons and a scroll wheel is what everyone expects a mouse to have. Some have extra buttons others have fucking keyboard buttons as extra mouse buttons because some faggot though "why not?" but the average one is like anon described.
And yes there are mac fags with their two buttons and wheel you can't press touch mouses.
0c5f5b No.15926105
>>15925612
> racing games, vehicular combat
Much better with flight stick/hotas/racing wheel and of course M+KB (optional with vJoy).
Anything else is simply better with M+KB.
0367a4 No.15926150
>>15926105
>Much better with flight stick/hotas/racing wheel
What does any of that have to do with arguing over using a controller/kb+m? Also, these are controllers brainlet.
>Anything else is simply better with M+KB.
>Things that are plain better off with 360 degree movement is actually better off with only 8 linear movements with awsd
More bullshit pc niggers come up with.
e7f857 No.15926184
>>15925369
>>15925612
>3rd person games (both in fixed cam/non fixed cam don't fucking bullshit me here)
Most of the time I use camera for extra precise navigation, which doesn't happen really that often. If camera is fixed, then I can see how you need full freedom of movement, but otherwise, there isn't much difference between kb&m and game pads.
>3d/2d platformers
What's the difference between a d-pad and keyboard? I mean, both here and there the input is digital.
0367a4 No.15926227
>>15926184
>What's the difference between a d-pad and keyboard?
It's not a d-pad issue. Analog stick work the best for this simply for the fact that they're are more fluid and actually allow presice 360 movements that are far better than 8 directions.
>3rd person games
Controllers offer better camera control and character control. Dual analog movement is by far less clunky and less annoying when panning your camera around your player with a mouse.
e7f857 No.15926258
>>15926227
>analog stick work the best for this simply for the fact that they're are more fluid and actually allow presice 360 movements that are far better than 8 directions.
Perhaps I didn't talk about analog sticks.
>Dual analog movement is by far less clunky and less annoying when panning your camera around your player with a mouse.
How so? I can't take a quick look when there's a limit on how quickly I can turn around. It also feels weird not to have 1:1 camera control, as if I was on rails. Maybe it really is better, but I haven't played a game yet where it's important enough.
0367a4 No.15926339
>>15926258
>How so?
Because it's just plain akward and weird to move awsd with 3rd person view enabled. I'm constantly reminded of how limited I am in the awsd department. For example:
A) At times, the animations look almost like the ai in gta San andreas.
B) Many 3rd person games are often directly ported from the console version and used for PC.
C) It's far faster to twittle your thumb to actually pan to see something than dragging your entire mouse to do it. It's plainly more cumbesome.
213a53 No.15926402
>>15926339
what is sacrifices in compactness by being "cumbersome", it makes up for it blatantly obvious precision. if a mouse takes up so much space that it's cumbersome then get a bigger desk, poorfag.
dff762 No.15927179
>don't want keyboard & mouse support for shooters
>want general keyboard support so I can play action games in their true format
I don't know what's wrong with me, but I need to relive the magic of playing Devil May Cry 4 on a keyboard.
6d1e18 No.15927237
>>15916703
There's a reason why games on tablets have a simplistic control scheme despite the existence of attachable keyboards or gamepads. If something doesn't come with a system then it doesn't exist as far as devs are concerned.
>Next you will be saying that they would have to package TVs along with consoles.
They've started doing that, yes.
d3d905 No.15927246
>>15927179
>the magic of playing Devil May Cry 4 on a keyboard
Holy shit i'm not the only one, thank god for the internet where I can find likeminded retards
6d1e18 No.15927260
>>15926402
>it makes up for it blatantly obvious precision.
This has far greater precision than a mouse. So I guess you agree that a pen + pad should be the only control scheme for both console and PC games then.
fb0a27 No.15927295
>>15915201
OP your a faggot just play on a fucking PC.
a15e08 No.15927303
Actually Nintendo solved this problem with Splatoon. Gyro controls are nearly as precise as mouse aiming for shooting games and if it were adopted as the new standard for those games, this wouldn't be an issue anymore.
Microsoft and Sony should release traditional controllers with gyro sensors and that'd make the consolefags finally able to compete. Fuck this trackball shit.
6d1e18 No.15927315
>>15925638
>>15924826
This is the exact mouse that I'm using right now. Not everyone has unlimited selection of what they buy when their only local store a a fucking Walmart. And it was either that or a $100 monstrosity that glowed like a furry's asshole.
dff762 No.15927336
>>15924234
>>15924252
>he doesn't swipe over to the mouse when he needs to adjust camera and do fine tuning with the arrow keys that he also mapped to the camera controls
Also, in case you're not good at math
22<26+20+10+28
All your letters+the 20 different number keys, plus the column that separates the numberpad and your qwerty keys, and to top it off I counted all the extra little keys, both shifts, both ctrls, both alts
This isn't counting function keys, which can possibly be bound but usually aren't a good idea because they activate other functions on your computer. I agree that I never have to use nearly that many, but if we're talking about key quantity, there's no comparison, especially if I say what you said; If we map just the left shift to alternative inputs for any necessary action we just subtract one and then multiply by 2, which is 164 possible button inputs if we're getting hard into the autism, since the computer probably won't comprehend two shifts being pressed in to actuate a function.
The rest of your points are garbage too.
The game that I come back to whenever I consider how spread your inputs can be is E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy. If game developers weren't constrained to the controller, they could allow for so many more input options, to the degree that they could have as many inputs as necessary, while not forcing the player to shift input methods with an alternation key. Beyond that, keyboards aren't that unwieldy, and honestly if your battle station is not a futon or a bed sidled up to a wall that you can cushion and lounge across you're playing vidya wrong.
>>15927246
My ps3 controller borked and I needed a way to play
So I learned the shit out of keyboard and became really proficient at the swordmaster/darkslayer short hop air combo, tricking all over the place, and mashing out gunslinger mixups.
>>15927303
>if playstation made a controller with gyro
they did it
and it sucked ass.
>>15927315
I like traditional shit so I have a shitty logitech usbmouse, but if you have the funds amazon has a wide variety that delivers right to your door what the fuck kind of excuse are you making that your local walmart doesn't have a good selection? Literally any store today makes online order deliveries too.
a17a82 No.15927339
Using a mouse and keyboard is complete cancer for most games, I find. I don't want to pilot a fucking spaceship while I play a vidya. I want to lay-sit back and play with the controller in my lap. I say that while typically scoring in the top 3 of whatever game I play. Aside from a good monitor, I really think coordination matters more than the tools you use to play. So long as the game itself is constructed well enough, such as UI, it really shouldn't matter.
dff762 No.15927349
>>15927339
>I don't want to pilot a fucking spaceship
Space ships are very easy to pilot though, much like playing with a keyboard, git gud scrub
a17a82 No.15927354
>>15927349
>git gud scrub
As I said, I am probably literally better than you. Aside from that, I don't really care. As good as I tend to be in them, multiplayer games are a whole other genre of cancer. Especially FPS ones where you're just mindlessly doing shit. There are only handful examples of it being done well.
dff762 No.15927383
>>15927354
>I'm probably better than you
if you were so good the tool wouldn't matter
any tool is useful if you know how to use it
>tch, not like I care anyway
then you're probably trash; if you don't care about how well you play it's probably because you play mindless and easy garbage like trying devil may cry on the easiest difficulty and using auto combos.
a15e08 No.15927465
>>15927336
>they did it
>and it sucked ass.
Then they should try again and make one that doesn't suck ass.
2087db No.15928415
Brain-wave control devices are superior to faggy keyboards and shitty controllers. Prove me wrong, brainlets.
c6e4fb No.15928562
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15925163
Diablo's control scheme was an abomination from the start, having separate movement and attack controls is so obvious every early MMORPG that cloned Diablo's style rapidly added some sort of dedicated movement controls.
In for these sorts of games, twinstick is nice, but keyboard movement with cursor aim is better since it allows precise AoE targeting instead of just directional aim.
>>15924476
>>15924665
>>15925056
>>15926227
>analog stick
<fine angular precision, not as fast as a keypress
>digital keyboard
<fast, coarse angular imprecision
Obvious solution, vid related.
6e5ef5 No.15928604
>>15927336
WHO ELSE HERE WANTS OVER 40 INPUT OPTIONS IN THERE GAMU 8CHAAAAAAAAAAAAN???
dff762 No.15928622
>>15928604
>being autistic
go watch some anime time for women or something.
6e5ef5 No.15928642
>>15928622
>Being very smart
Personally I believe you are correct in your assertions that we need at least 60 or so inputs in order to have a game. This should be absolutely mandatory tbh. It would clearly make every game out there 100x more fun than what we typically have now. Any who disagree should not even be allowed to play video games. Pic related is how I feel about people who don't want this.
6d1e18 No.15928664
>>15927336
>but if you have the funds amazon has a wide variety that delivers right to your door what the fuck kind of excuse are you making that your local walmart doesn't have a good selection?
When your mouse breaks it becomes very difficult to buy a mouse online and once you've already bought one at the store buying one online is rather redundant and a waste of money. Besides a mouse is a mouse.
dff762 No.15928712
>>15928642
>we need at least 60 or so inputs in order to have a game
>strawmanning and baiting
38737e No.15928757
>>15928642
>>15928604
controllerfags are dumb niggers that can't handle anything more complex than COD. Makes sense, being to dumb to operate a game with complex controls most likely damns them to lower tier entry level jobs like burger flipping, hence buying a cheaper console instead of buying PC parts and constructing one themselves. Adult legos is too complex for their inferior negroid brain to comprehend. They probably type with one finger as well.
ceab65 No.15928808
You know not everyone wants to play games at a desk hunched over looking like that Southpark world of Warcraft parody.
bb72ab No.15928821
imagine thinking that a trackball is better than a laser mouse for FPS
casual pleb detected
play more quake nigger
bb72ab No.15928832
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15928808
>not using the superior desk setup to train your gamer skills
5fc591 No.15929369
>>15928757
>Having more inputs means that a game is more complex
>Not realizing grand strategy games are pretty much all point and clickers that don't even have that many keys to play the game
And let's not forget that having a couple dozen inputs or more are usually just easy buttons. Like how most mmorpgs usually have 10-12 consumable slots. Having more inputs in a game doesn't make it more complex nor does it give you anymore depth. Need I explain more to you retard?
>>15928712
>Not realizing he was being completely serious with you
You do realize that you did in fact say that a game could have more than 100 keys for a game correct? You're also too dumb not to realize that the point of >>15924234 post was to point out that there are plenty of buttons to do just about anything in games on a controller. He never said anything about a keyboard and a controller having the same amount of keys for games. So it appears that you actually used strawman on him not the other way around. And let's not forget that the shift key is typically used for running or crouching. It would have made far more sense to say that the tab key or some other often unused key to be used to as a key to press other keys simultaneously. You were also too stupid to actually just look up how many keys were on a computer with a search engine, instead you're so autistic that you went out of your way to count all of them like a tard. You're also forgetting that you only use half of a keyboard to play a game as you have to use your mouse hand and also can't reach to the other half of the keyboard because you'd have to take your hands off the main controls and place them back on again, disrupting everything you were doing just to press one key on a keyboard. Your points are retarded and have no basis in reality.
fd8fc8 No.15929417
>>15915201
>charge 60 dollars for a gimped retard stick with a lifecycle designed by yourself
VS
>reselling keyboards and mice for almost 0 profit
24a8a8 No.15929536
>>15928664
>When your mouse breaks it becomes very difficult to buy a mouse online
Are you computer illiterate? It takes five extra minutes tops to navigate to whatever online retailer you prefer and order a mouse via keyboard from startup. That aside, a grand majority of the population has a phone capable of placing online orders.
be0efb No.15929552
>>15929536
Is he really? It's pretty hard to buy a mouse online anonymously with no way of tracking you down. The closest to this is dankweb stores have that sells goods with variable quality. It's fairly hard to find macro mouses anywhere in stores. Stop fucking playing dumb already and just admit that macro mouses are indeed a rare find and are a specialty item even by todays standards. The fact you lying little shits are saying this shit at all can only prove how dishonest you are.
9208bd No.15929561
>>15929552
Doesn't that also apply to fucking everything, including controllers? How is anonymity and that shit related at all with the topic at hand?
Also, I don't know where you are from, but in the nearest store that sells computer parts I can go and get one of those meme mouses with unnecessary LEDs and buttons.
eb5446 No.15929579
>>15924665
Because analog sticks are used in full tilt all the time anyway, making them no different from digital input.
24a8a8 No.15929589
>>15929552
>it's hard to do this
<no it's not
>it's hard to do it anonymously
That's some grade A goalpost moving, famalam
be0efb No.15929609
>>15929561
>Doesn't that also apply to fucking everything, including controllers?
No it really doesn't because I could walk into a store right now and buy the items right now while not giving away my identity.
>How is anonymity and that shit related at all with the topic at hand?
It is enherently related because this is a fucking anonymous imageboard.
>Also, I don't know where you are from, but in the nearest store
>My local store sells it therefore they sell it almost everywhere
Even if it were true for most people that most people could easily find the item in stores (guess what its not), perhaps next you'll say that buying a vehicle with all the selectable options with all the bells and whistles means that said item is somehow a standardized item. In fact, you PC niggers are the ones moving the goalposts here by saying that having access to said items in stores means that they somehow aren't specialty items. Just because there's a possibility of you finding one in a store somewhere, doesn't mean it's a standard item.
>>15929589
It's not moving the goalposts since he was likely implying exactly what I just said.
bca433 No.15929630
>>15929552
Why would you need to buy a fucking mouse anonymously?
fcd485 No.15929634
>>15929609
These pcniggers be like:
>A 24 karate gold ring with a huge alexandrite in middle of it is a standard item sold in jewelry shops because they sell it there
Which is so fucking absurd that it doesn't even need explaining. Anyone who seriously gloats about their passtime are most likely subiq niggers anyway.
c3c906 No.15929642
>>15925612
>How the fuck is having 22 buttons not enough to play pretty much any game out there? Are you geniunly retarded?
Every single fucking game is better when you have more buttons to spare you stupid nigger. Do you not know how more pleasant playing something where every single action can be mapped to a separate button is? Stop with this 22 fucking button meme, that doesn't fucking help with things like weapon selection, which is FAR fucking better with just using numbers, or even such a simple thing as hotkeys for menus. Have you ever played an older fucking game that has a lot of functions that aren't absolutely necessary to access with the keyboard but are far easier doing so you stupid fagggot? Have you never played a game with a lot of functions that need to be covered? Do you even know what a Rougelike is? Have you seen any game on the PC that came out before 2000, or even 2007 for that matter?
>Unless you're playing a strategy game, there really is no use for this. Also, highlighting can easily be implemented with a gamepad. Stop acting like that isn't the case you disengenuous nigger.
Yes because scrolling through the options with the D-pad is just as intuitive as pointing at something and clicking on it to highlight it. Play a fucking CRPG once in your fucking life, even the older ones with obtuse fucking menus are better than some of the shit we've been getting today by UI design standards.
>Now your pulling at straws at this point. Why would this need to be simplified for a console version considering we have enough buttons to do so?
Because you cannot fucking efficiently point on something or drag something over you mongoloid. Because you don't have enough buttons 22 buttons is not fucking enough when 9 of them are supposed to be buttons that just switch you to a different fucking weapon which is a far better fucking solution than a d-pad will ever have for FPS. Because you cannot even input your fucking name in an intuitive manner on a fucking gamepad you absolute retard. Because a menu in an RPG ANY RPG will be far more pleasant and intuitive if you can just click, move and drag things around than fiddle around with the d-pad.
>Except for stealth games
This genre is so fucking vast that it already proves you wrong you nigger. Would Thief be a better game if it was played on a fucking gamepad? What type of a fucking stealth game you nigger? There are FPS stealth games, 3rd person stealth games, top-down stealth games, fucking platformer stealth games, if you actually take a bit of thought, it narrows your stupid idea down to a fraction of stealth games that are played better with a gamepad.
>3rd person games (both in fixed cam/non fixed cam don't fucking bullshit me here
Same fucking problem, don't bullshit me that a 3rd person shooter is played better with a gamepad than with a keyboard and mouse. Gamepad is specifically better for 3rd person action games, which also narrows it down a lot you nigger.
>racing games, vehicular combat
Better played with a driving wheel, but fair point.
>3d platformers
Fair point, although there's not even that much of an advantage.
>2d platformers
Fucking bullshit, if you think that playing a 2D fucking platformer on an analog stick is better than playing or a keyboard or a d-pad then you are fucking insane and have never played a 2D platformer in your life. If you think that playing on a d-pad is superior then you are also retarded as a stable accessory that you don't need to fucking hold and can manipulate the buttons of more easily is far superior for 2D platformers than a d-pad.
c3c906 No.15929669
>>15929369
>And let's not forget that having a couple dozen inputs or more are usually just easy buttons. Like how most mmorpgs usually have 10-12 consumable slots. Having more inputs in a game doesn't make it more complex nor does it give you anymore depth. Need I explain more to you retard?
Having those is still far fucking better for the simple reason of being able to easily get what you want with a press of a button, and having your game designed that way.
Do you not understand the concept of "quality of life feature"? It might sound not that important but without those when a console has to handle a more complex game, it's actual UI becomes a convoluted and obtuse mess that might be indeed "simpler" but is not easier to use nor is it more pleasant to use. So even then your argument makes no sense, because having less buttons, even if those buttons are just there for quality of life features like hotkeys, improves the overall quality of the experience.
24a8a8 No.15929674
>>15929609
>he's on an imageboard of course he meant anonymously purchasing goods from physical stores
Here's another (You), don't spend it all at one place.
bca433 No.15929807
>>15929634
The fact that you even talk like that kinda shows how gay console fags are
fcd485 No.15929828
>>15929807
Talk like what? Talk like I'm smacking some sense into you over an argument that makes absolutely no sense? How did humans even buy specialty or nonstandard items before the internet?
>Oh right, it must have been a phone
>Goes back further in time
>Oh right, it must have been carrier pidgeons
Because the only way you can buy a nonstandard item must be by indirect means.
bca433 No.15929839
>>15929828
The fuck are you babbling about you retard lol
1af9a6 No.15929857
>>15915604
Consoles are now literally gayming PCs, hardware specifically tailored to work right out of the box but on the cheap. On top of that companies like Bathesda have straight up fused the Modding scene of their games together in the crudest way possible, which completely and utterly humiliated the Xbone showing just how poor and limited the hardware is. PC Modders had to straight up redo their entire mods to cater to consoles and their limited hardware.
be0efb No.15929880
>>15929839
>Pretending to be retarded when that's what the argument had already boiled down to.
>A controller with a trackball on it is obviously not standard by any means and costs extra money
>A mouse with more than three buttons on it it is abviously not standard and costs you extra
Perhaps you should wash that egg off your face.
45377c No.15930104
Reason why can be explained entirely by some of the people in this thread, the game pad currently is designed to be a general use tool made to work with many games at the cost of never being the optimal method of playing them.
But people are do attached to this current pad design that they would actively deter and smack talk an alternative if one were to appear. Devs now have to implement bullet magnetism and aim assists to get people to aim with those low movement range nipples but instead of feeling insulted by this design they eat it up while shit talking ideas like IR and Gyro aiming which offer infinitely more range and accuracy without needing an assist.
They will refuse to learn a more ergonomic method of play due to it needing an adjustment period but will instead write off all of the other options when they themselves are using one of the least ergonomic methods of control available just because of the reason of "they're used to it".
Companies aren't fucking retarded, they know the people who buy their shit systems love their shit controllers and Microsoft even proved it by making a shit controller that's the equivalent of their other controller with a bunch of $2 mods on it and sell it for $150 when functionally it others nothing that makes it any more favourably comparable to other options.
So would they make a track ball standardised controller? People would complain this isn't what they want from a controller, devs would complain that this breaks their design of needing assists and magnets to compensate, niggas who are using these older options will complain it's not fair while still fighting to their last breath that their pad isn't inferior.
There is literally nothing in for the first dev who would try this other then piles of bad press for when it semi catches on for the competitors to obtain favourable press out of the situation.
c6e4fb No.15930287
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15930104
>Devs now have to implement bullet magnetism and aim assists to get people to aim with those low movement range nipples
>devs would complain that this breaks their design of needing assists and magnets to compensate
Completely agreed with the rest of your post about console players being gormless cattle who don't understand what they want. But I think devs themselves intentionally promote aimbot-based "shooters" specifically because it allows them to sell casual games to a delusional captive audience cut off from exposure to actual games that reward skill, or even other gamers in multiplayer who can seriously display skill to them.
If console shooters balanced around the ability to aim correctly existed, it would blow down their entire house of cards.
be0efb No.15930412
>>15930287
It was around 2007 when aim assists became a huge thing (as far as I remember) on consoles as well. I never had any problems playing without aim assists. I used to play both the PC version of unreal tournament and I must say it didn't feel much different as far as gameplay was concerned. Has anyone thought that perhaps it has to do with the aim assists being implemented that perhaps that's the reason why some may percieve the controller being less accurate? A huge bulk of gamers on consoles have lost site of how to play without them. This is totally causitve in my opinion.
>B-but what about muh vid of a PC setup (or controller setup) of beating someone else.
It proves absolutely nothing once again. All we'd be doing is flinging shit at each other by selectively cherrypicking gameplay here.
>>15929642
>it narrows your stupid idea down to a fraction of stealth games that are played better with a gamepad.
Nuh-uh-uh retard. You have full control over your characters movements in stealth games. On pc, you only have fucking 8 to do stuff with making it FAR harder to actually go on undetected. And don't you fucking bring up MUH PRECISION argument like that has anything to do with it. Stealth games are not storm the castle tier games dumbshit.
>Better played with a driving wheel,
LOL no it's fucking not and never was you absolute newfag nigger. All those retarded driving wheels (or some other driving controller) have always been absolute dogshit compare to a traditional controller simply for the fact your reaction times are far quicker with a joystick. You could reasonably say it's more "fun" but that has absolutely nothing to do with actual gameplay.
>if you think that playing a 2D fucking
I realize that I probably should have specified here exactly what I meant here. On a 2d side scroller, admittedly there is absolutely no difference between a d-pad or awsd. But on TOP DOWN 2d platformera it's an entirely different story. Know what's funny? Just the other day I was having difficulty jumping from place to place in crosscode and guess fucking what? THATS NOT EVEN A FUCKING PLATFORMER.
>3rd person games with a controller are only good with action games
LOL. No they fucking arent. Any 3rd person game with a non-fixed camera is far superior with a controller than it is a mouse. Why the fuck would anyone even need to explain this you dumb nigger?
>Yes because scrolling
Right right. Because you can't have a mapped button and have your joystick hover over and highlight in a game. And guess what retard this has already been done before.
>Yes because scrolling through the options with the D-pad is just as intuitive as pointing at something and clicking on it to highlight it.
Already covered this.
>9 of them are supposed to be buttons that just switch you to a different fucking weapon which is a far
So you're now bitching about a game not being easy enough to play? Muh easy buttons.
>move and drag things around than fiddle around with the d-pad.
Already covered this.
1d1467 No.15930454
>play a stealth game with keyboard and mouse
>sneak into a shadow
>try to slowly creap up to the border between the shade and the light
>instead I end up fully accelerating into the light because I don't even have full control over my characters speed while walking/crouching
>With a controller however, this isn't a problem because you can tilt your analog stick slightly in to creep forward or push it to full tilt when in a hurry
Explain this.
e833f0 No.15930457
>>15930454
>play a stealth game
>can stealth run unlike the console port where you have to walk slowly otherwise you make everyone shoot at you
>alternatively
>scroll the mouse wheel to move slowly or move fast, very comfortable
explain this?
1d1467 No.15930459
>>15930457
>>can stealth run unlike the console port where you have to walk slowly otherwise you make everyone shoot at you
>Implying being able to = being forced to
>>scroll the mouse wheel to move slowly or move fast, very comfortable
That's about the dumbest control scheme I've ever heard in my entire life and the least likely to ever happen in a stealth game besides muh mods.
e833f0 No.15930465
>>15930459
if you run normally in hitman 2 slient assassin, you get shot at, on the pc version, you can mash the forward button multiple times and move just as fast as running but without raising an alarm or suspicion, the game is much more easier to take out guards.
it sounds dumb to use the scroll wheel, but in splinter cell the scroll wheel sets your speed not your movement it's actually pretty good job trying to make up for digital to analog controls.
4dae5c No.15930471
>>15928832
I honestly don't give a shit about my gamer skills. I suppose if you unironically play Overwatch and want to win KBM is best.
But if you want to play a comfy JRPG a controller will do.
4dae5c No.15930473
>>15929417
Have you seen the price on some of those gamer pro keyboards and mice? Trust me a DS4 is cheap compared to that.
e833f0 No.15930475
>>15930473
>100 dollars is expensive to 100 dollars
1d1467 No.15930477
>>15930465
>you can mash the forward button multiple times and move just as fast as running but without raising an alarm or suspicion
Well, then that's obviously not a stealth game then. Also:
>Implying that PC gaming devs giving players assists of thier own = better than the console game that actually requires some degree of stealth
Unless the ai are far away from the player, this should raise suspicion as you are making a lot of noise.
>sets your speed not your movement
Then what was the point of you saying that was an actual alternative to creeping up to someone with a varying degrees of acceleration/deceleration on the fly then? The fact is, you can't do this with awsd.
4dae5c No.15930479
>>15930475
A DS4 is $€50 anon. And you get one for free that lasts the generation.
e833f0 No.15930484
>>15930477
it's an unintended exploit due to superior controls, by your post you have never played hitman 2 silent assassin, also disregarded hitman as not a stealth game
>wear a disguise
>run normally
>suddenly noticed as suspicious immediately
this is completely bullshit
and now you're moving the goalpost of >keyboard and mouse to keyboard only
the scroll wheel does help fix the analog movement, but analog movement is usually compromised of two speeds anyways, it's usually not variable.
>>15930479
the prices in my country is 100 dollarydoos
aff262 No.15930488
>>15930104
>So would they make a track ball standardised controller?
Liability above all else, honestly. You do need to take apart a trackball and clean them periodically - especially the kind of normalfag slobs who play on consoles. Unless you have a ring lock like the older trackballs used to use, people are going to lose those fucking balls within a week - and they're small enough that they're a choking hazard for younger children and pets.
The first time some faggot loses his trackball under the couch and their two year old swallows it and chokes to death while they're checking their tweets on their phone instead of parenting their kid - there's going to be massive lawsuits. And even if you install a locking ring to keep the ball in-place, people are going to bitch and moan endlessly about a pointing device that they have to put even minimal regular maintenance into.
be0efb No.15930493
>>15930484
>this is completely bullshit
>runs in a building with guards on high alert
>eh, don't mind him that's just billybob excersizing in the hallway again with an unrecognizable face
>but analog movement is usually compromised of two speeds anyways
Lol no they are not retard. Maybe you could say that about PC games with a controller but to say that's the case with console games, that's stretching it to an unimaginable degree.
>the prices in my country is 100 dollarydoos
Where do you live? The backblocks of Uganda?
9853db No.15930495
>>15930104
The biggest issue with IR and gyro is that you suddenly have to use your arms, not just hands on fingers. This sounds ridiculous, but it's been stated many times already that normalfags want the least awesome for the least X presses. That, or they can't stop flailing their arms around. It's especially weird, since offloading aiming onto wrists/arms would be better and more comfortable (and maybe more intuitive) than forcing fingers to do everything.
c6e4fb No.15930500
>>15930412
>It was around 2007 when aim assists became a huge thing (as far as I remember) on consoles
No, Halo back in 2001 bears primary responsibility, by making it completely mandatory and invisible, allowing deluded casuals to believe they're "just that good". Immediately after Halo, "'generous' 'aim assist'" became industry standard across basically every 6th-gen FPS/TPS.
>I used to play both the PC and DC/PS2 versions of unreal tournament
Fix'd, I assume?
>and I must say it didn't feel much different as far as gameplay was concerned.
Console FPS always felt terrible to me, and everyone at the time agreed. Even before Halo and its ilk made it mandatory and invisible, console FPSs like the PSX MoHs or N64 Turoks had auto-aim as an option that could be toggled, usually further indicated by cues like the avatar's hand moving on its own or the reticle jumping around, most people played with it on. It's no coincidence this played out on PC earlier as well, where auto-aim options were common in the keyboard-only days before mouselook achieved ubiquity, there were even butthurt keyboardkiddies spouting apologia on USENET, and awkward transitional options like auto-center when people were still too clumsy with mouselook to keep from gazing at the floor/ceiling all the time.
<B-but what about muh vid of a PC setup (or controller setup) of beating someone else.
>It proves absolutely nothing once again. All we'd be doing is flinging shit at each other by selectively cherrypicking gameplay here.
Nigger, this is settled fact. Boot up Goldeneye or PD with a KB+M mod, play the PC port for Halo or GoW and try playing with a gamepad, playing with mouselook feels like cheatmode because these games were balanced for a control scheme completely unsuited to their supposed genre.
>And don't you fucking bring up MUH PRECISION argument like that has anything to do with it.
The actual advantage of keyboards is their faster latency, which also means you can approximate analog simply by "feathering" keypresses. That said, an analog keyboard like the Wooting One solves both issues.
>All those retarded driving wheels (or some other driving controller) have always been absolute dogshit compare to a traditional controller simply for the fact your reaction times are far quicker with a joystick.
Much like driving a car IRL, I find wheels are generally superior because they allow me to make fine adjustments in direction (and, with long-travel pedals, to acceleration/braking) far more precisely. If I need more speedy reaction, I can simply shrink the lock-to-lock radius, just like most IRL racecars, and benefit from the stability of a two-handed grip on the wheel, versus the jitteriness of a tiny thumbstick.
>TOP DOWN 2d
Agreed, though as above, analog keyboard/hitbox would probably beat it.
>So you're now bitching about a game not being easy enough to play? Muh easy buttons.
Think of the pipe organ-like experience of rapidly activating different hotkeyed abilities in Diablo 2, allowing you to seamlessly teleport to and from annoying spellcasters in dense packs of enemies and wail on them, use AoEs, throw offhand ranged attacks, switch auras on and off as enemy elemental attacks change, and keep mana/health potions flowing at the correct rate. Trying this on a gamepad means either slowing down (or pausing!) the game to dig through a menu system, or reducing the number of manually controlled abilities needed in any single engagement, both of which mean lowering the game's skill ceiling.
>>15930484
Have you tried a modern optical trackball? They don't have to be cleaned anywhere near as often, and are extremely easy to clean.
>>15930493
Other anon is right about feathering keypresses, adjusting movement speed with a wheel, etc., being a subpar workaround for a flawed device. I think we need actual analog keyswitches.
504497 No.15930732
>Controllerfag still thinks that this >>15924685 is cherry picking but still asserts unsubstantiated claims about why aim assist is implemented.
What is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
>thinks that a mouse with more than three buttons is hard to find
A mouse can have 5 buttons without being marketed as a gaming mouse.
38737e No.15930739
>hurr durr u need analog movement for Stealth games even though the only Stealth games worth playing (Thief 1 and 2) are exclusive to PC
ada6f1 No.15930768
>>15925056
This thing is cyberpunk as fuck, I'm amazed there isn't a demand for it today. There's no way there are less carpal tunnel sufferers now than there used to be.
45377c No.15930770
>>15930287
Never played CoD but after watching through this devs being just as lazy and anti play testing would also be a factor as an errata.
>>15930495
That would go back to the deter and smack talk point, they'd say garbage along the line of "I actually play the game while this dude wiggles his arm around and head shots me" while when themselves try said mechanic they'll call it too obtuse with "It's so much easier to move with a simple stick, it's (not fun) to play this way" and alternate their as needed to make their option of choice.
So deterring it as an option when it's asked of them to learn and use it themselves but smack talking it as cheap when the benefits were learned by someone else and used on them.
That or they'll resort to the gay shit of it makes their arms tried and should be rightfully called fat fucks for making such a retarded complaint.
4a6e92 No.15930905
>>15924552
Every cross-platform FPS proves you wrong consolenigger.
Different controllers function better for different games, objective fact. Or do you think racing wheel+joystick+ pedals is worse for driving games? You are part of the cancer kys.
122d84 No.15930918
>thinks controllers are equal to kbm for fps
>literally can't play fps without aimbot on console
L
M
A
O
38737e No.15930944
>>15930918
controllerfags have reached peak delusion at this point. It is both entertaining and sad to watch unfold.
8748e0 No.15931196
c3c906 No.15931215
>>15930412
>Nuh-uh-uh retard. You have full control over your characters movements in stealth games. On pc, you only have fucking 8 to do stuff with making it FAR harder to actually go on undetected. And don't you fucking bring up MUH PRECISION argument like that has anything to do with it. Stealth games are not storm the castle tier games dumbshit.
Oh so you are just conveniently going to ignore the example of Thief I given because it breaks your fucking argument. Nice going nigger.
>OL no it's fucking not and never was you absolute newfag nigger. All those retarded driving wheels (or some other driving controller) have always been absolute dogshit compare to a traditional controller simply for the fact your reaction times are far quicker with a joystick. You could reasonably say it's more "fun" but that has absolutely nothing to do with actual gameplay.
Okay, I'll admit that one, but fuck you, those are more fun and I liked them
>On a 2d side scroller, admittedly there is absolutely no difference between a d-pad or awsd.
There is and you don't use wasd to play sidescrollers nigger you use arrow keys with your right hand and ZXCV, space and sometimes control with your left for action. It is far better for a keyboard because of pic related.
>LOL. No they fucking arent. Any 3rd person game with a non-fixed camera is far superior with a controller than it is a mouse. Why the fuck would anyone even need to explain this you dumb nigger?
Why the fuck would anyone even need to explain why a 3rd person shooter, which you fucking conveniently ignored is not the fucking case you dumb nigger?
>Right right. Because you can't have a mapped button and have your joystick hover over and highlight in a game. And guess what retard this has already been done before.
And it's akward and not as pleasant as on the PC with a mouse, your fucking point?
>So you're now bitching about a game not being easy enough to play? Muh easy buttons.
You have never played an old FPS and don't know how quickly you have to swap weapons in there. It's about reaction time you nigger.
>Already covered this.
And as I said, it's still akward and obtuse you nigger.
c3c906 No.15931229
>>15930412
Oh and also forgot to answer this
>But on TOP DOWN 2d platformera it's an entirely different story.
This is a very rare fucking genre, and doesn't disprove my point of a gamepad being useful only for a few game genres.
77b2ab No.15931231
Ughh, that reminds me of my steam controller.
Bought that thing cause I needed a controller for some games and saw the user reviews saying it was good. Thing is a piece of shit.
Trackpad is a pain the ass to use and not within light years of being as accurate as a stick.
Due to the trackpad's position, in game where u have to use it all the time, it's in an odd position to be able to use it and press buttons.
The controller has 2 fucking buttons on it's back on the grips bound to buttons. If you squeeze the controller too hard, you end up pressing them.
8748e0 No.15931252
128213 No.15931266
If you honestly believe that stealth games are better with PC. You are obviously a drooling retard and that's an absolute fact.
bca433 No.15931276
>>15929857
I bought a fucking PC for cheaper then a goddamn console and the fucking thing plays everything fine plus it's a PC so it can do anything else. I've never understood console fags, all they do is lower the bar
1261b8 No.15931285
>>15915681
>dark souls
>anything but kb only
Shiggy bo diggy you ain't my niggy.
bca433 No.15931286
>>15929880
Perhaps you should wash the jizz out of your eyes and read what gay shit you wrote. Console fags are the scum of the earth
38737e No.15931330
>>15931266
Do you deny that Thief 1 and 2 are some of the best Stealth games ever made? Neither of them supported analog movement, it's completely irrelevant for the genre.
1cb5fd No.15931336
>>15931215
You're supposed to keep your thumb over square AND x. How the hell do you think people play super mario? Quickly let go of dash to press jump and then press dash again? If that's the case I can see how someone would hate controllers so much.
128213 No.15931370
>>15931330
>A piss easy stealth game where ai practically stay put the entire time makes the issue at hand irrelevant
>Something that was created exclusively for PC/consoles therefore it has no bearing on what is better suited for what platform
DIRECT
>>15930459
>>15930454
>>15930412
d0908e No.15931382
>not using different control schemes and hrdware depending on the game
KB+M is far shitter for third person action games and RPGs while I'd never use a controller for an FPS
38737e No.15931391
>>15931370
>controllerfags so desperate and delusional that they shit on Thief 1 and 2
Please continue fucking up miserably.
128213 No.15931430
>>15931391
>I'm the one fucking up when it's an accurate description of the game.
I've already played both these games through and through and I must say it is probably the most overrated garbage that has ever been shilled in /v/ history.
ee24a8 No.15931461
This thread is a ducking dumpsterfire. The "I can't buy a mouse" nigger is obviously some kind of pajeet or slavshit. There's a bunch of cuckchannel "trolls" who are "just pretending" to be retarded as if that isn't the weakest form of bait. I've never seen such a shitshow over something that should be an objective conclusion.
c6e4fb No.15931505
>>15931461
>something that should be an objective conclusion
If that were true, nobody would be selling gamepads without real pointing devices, and shooters without the ability to aim properly.
c19332 No.15931674
>>15931252
don't confuse them too much, they're probably the same shitters who complained about the smart pistol
>>15931505
>objective means this arbitrary amount of factors
639d96 No.15932384
Been playing games for a long time. Somebody filmed it once: I look like a fucking zombie. Only my fingers and eyes move.
And I'm perfectly fine with that. Want to move your body go to the gym. Fuck motion controls.
639d96 No.15932395
>>15931276
Do you live in Brazil? Building a PC for €299 doesn't get you far where I live.
dff762 No.15932403
>>15931215
Objectively best layout,
>share button obviously replaced with a select button on literally any other controller
>Dpad shifted to C-stick for G-cube
>D-pad for camera controls in PPSSPP because you can just jam your fingers back and forth for yaw and adjust pitch as necessary to see
c6e4fb No.15932586
>>15932395
>buying new parts
>ever except maybe PSU
Even paying money at all for undemanding parts like a case/mouse/keyboard/cables instead of scrounging spares from your job/school/friends/family isn't really necessary.
7d7668 No.15932959
>>15915242
Pic related is a PSX. What you refer to is the PS1.
You're welcome.
220d94 No.15933003
>>15932959
>being this new
>>>/cuckchan/
>>>/reddit/
>>>/trash/
>>>/gaschamber/
>inb4 I was just pretending to be retarded!!!111111111111
aff262 No.15933017
>>15933003
I don't remember anybody calling the PSX the PS until after the Dual Shock controllers started coming out. Even then, nobody called it the PS1 until the PS2 and they needed to differentiate the rebranded mini-PSX from both the older standard Playstation console and the next-generation Playstation 2.
c6e4fb No.15933047
>>15932959
The PlayStation as a whole originated as a CD-ROM based accessory for Nintendo, either attaching above (1st pic) or below (2nd pic) the original SNES/SFC to run "Super Disc" sealed caddies. Much like the Sega CD and the CDX, this plan expanded to include a standalone CD-based SNES, called the PlayStation (3rd pic related).
Later, when the relationship between Sony and Nintendo started breaking down, it resulted in a non-SNES-based device you call the "PS1", then differentiated from the earlier SNES-based CD-ROM console by the name PlayStation-X. After Sony's efforts fully broke from Nintendo, the X was dropped from the name, though the full PlayStation-X moniker had already permeated prerelease coverage and developer documentation, and was retained in common parlance well beyond its commercial launch, including the ubiquitous PSX abbreviation.
Later, when the PS2 entered public consciousness, Sony updated the PSX with a miniaturized hardware revision (4th pic related), called the PS one, or PS1.
You're welcome.
4e8720 No.15933500
>>15931252
>Video one one dude killing some bads proves my point
Fuck off brainlet, exceptions aren't the norm, and the guy even plays with KB+M normally because it's objectively better.
0c8371 No.15933924
>>15933923
Why didn't this post with it