ba5c76 No.15791557
Why did they think it was a good idea to add non-nintendo characters to the new smash game?
Is it just about the money now?
Pic unrelated
974e6b No.15791563
goku 4 smash, h8rs get out
ba5c76 No.15791571
I've only heavily played the original Nintendo64 version, so I don't know if they've done this before. How do they even determine which new chatacters get put in? Do they have a poll or something?
228e57 No.15791578
There are no nintendo characters that people care about left to add
5d7380 No.15791579
To make the game more fun
219f4a No.15791581
There's been non Nintendo characters since Brawl.
73674a No.15791582
>>15791563
if its goku from his early age, it would be epic
8a6129 No.15791595
Getting the IP rights to use just a few characters is massively expensive tho. Only Japanese tax collectors will truly know how much moolah Nintendo gave to Konami, Sega, Capcom, Namco, Square Enix, Platinum Games, Monolith Soft, and Yachtclub Games.
9971a5 No.15791596
>>15791557
>Pic unrelated
No, pic very related. Fuck rosterfags.
c10365 No.15791616
>>15791557
They needed a big guy
3c838d No.15792653
I still think that if Nintendo wanted to add in non-Nintendo characters, that they should have partnered up with Sega (who also has a huge catalog of well known and loved IPs) and made a Sega vs. Nintendo Brawl where characters from both companies 30 year history in console games could duke it out - and then frame the whole game as a playful tounge-in-cheek jab at the console wars and the rivalry that used to exist between the two companies. That would have brought in a LOT of nostalgia bucks - and they still could have added more modern franchise characters, with it making more sense overall (even if some are from Playstation and Xbox), because you have that grounding of console platforms which have third party support. Just making it Nintendo's party for Nintendo fans, and then adding in a bunch of randos feels like a cheap marketing gimmick and sours the soul of the series (if there even is such a thing).
73bb1f No.15792670
Oh hey, a time traveler. Just a warning for you, Spore will be absolutely terrible.
7bb47a No.15792711
>>15791582
Kid Goku would actually fit the tone of smash really well. Retarded late DBZ goku not so much.
>>15792670
Spore was fine. You just shouldn't have gotten unrealistic expectations from the hype
4d33aa No.15792715
>>15791557
HELLA JEFF FOR SMASH
5e1e15 No.15792722
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15792711
Yeah merely unrealistic hype.
0b4439 No.15792723
Yeah, it really violates the deep lore to have non nintendo characters.
8ec122 No.15792814
IF SANS FROM UNDERTALE GETS ADDED TO SMASH
I WILL KIDNAP TOBY FOX
becb41 No.15792881
Non-Nintendo characters are a great moneymaker and also a fantastic way of building excitement for the game. Crossovers that people only dreamed of when they were kids are now real because of Smash. You're not one of those retards who think that they need to go back to being Nintendo-only with the dwindling amount of franchises they have left, are you?
f5a06f No.15792888
>>15791557
What do you mean "Is it just about the money now?" What the fuck else would it be about? It's a corporation that sells a product. Yes it's about the money you retard.
f5a06f No.15792889
>>15792881
>dwindling amount of franchises
Dwindling my ass, they have 30 years of licenses to work with, but they refuse to because they need to shove in more Fire Emblems and Pokemon.
>>15791595
Nintendo owns Monolith Soft.
89198f No.15792902
>No SNK rep yet
I want to do Psycho Balls
958304 No.15792911
This has been going since Brawl, OP.
40e5a6 No.15792924
Every fightan series is doing crossovers now because they're all in decline otherwise. There's only so many times you can sell the same game to people. Just think about who the most used characters in most fightan are - they're the ones from the earliest installments. You never hear about any new characters they add to SF, MK or SC, but god damn it you'll hear about Geralt making it in.
>>15792889
The problem is that they're running out of series that people actually know. They have characters like Lip and Ray Mk III but you'd be hardpressed to find people who know who the fuck they are. Also a matter of surprise. Some Nintendo character is in? Well, that makes sense. Some non-Nintendo character is in? Couldn't predict that.
after Piranha Plant, I want a playable Virtual Boy with references to VB games.
>>15792653
>Sega
>Giving a shit about anything that isn't Sonic
In your fucking dreams, maybe.
>>15791571
They did have a poll that supposedly confirmed a few characters, like K. Rool and Bayonetta, but it's mostly just characters that make some sense or have an easy explanation.
Sonic's been a big rival of Mario for ages. Snake was a personal request from Kojima to Sakurai. Mega Man and Simon Belmont were big NES icons (and Richter's easy to make since he's a clone), Bayonetta's become a Nintendo series at this point and Cloud and Pac-Man are big gaming icons.
f5a06f No.15792933
>>15792924
>The problem is that they're running out of series that people actually know.
Is this really important? Most people playing Smash Bros probably have no idea who half the roster is but they play them anyway; hell that was the fun of trophies, learning about obscure Nintendo characters. So long as it's an interesting character, who gives a shit how well-known it is? If it's good, people will play as it. Smash Bros is a self-perpetuating sheep-powered hype machine, they'll latch onto any shiny new thing and blow it like it's their pimp.
40e5a6 No.15792950
>>15792933
They need people who are willing to buy consoles for this piece of shit, people who have never played the series before, not just the same people who've been playing since 64 or Melee. They need to add shit that gets people talking, and shit that will catch people's eyes. An obscure Nintendo character from a series that's been dead for twenty years and only ever came out in Japan is not going to do that. Cloud Strife is. Hell, the only reason Ridley was so big is because "he's too big" was a meme, not because Metroid is some worldwide phenomenon. It's why they add joke characters too - to get people talking and shilling their game for free.
4d33aa No.15792975
>>15792814
I CRIED WHEN THE GOAT DIED
a5bd32 No.15793033
>>15792933
Newsflash: Kids don’t play Nintendo consoles anymore.
In fact, besides shit like Fortnite, kids don’t play much of any video game anymore.
Kids who played Melee and Brawl when they were younger don’t care who the Ice Climbers or ROB are, only about the fact that they look cool.
Adult gamers don’t go by the same logic.
f77628 No.15793039
>>15791557
goku for smash when
becb41 No.15793047
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15792889
>Dwindling my ass, they have 30 years of licenses to work with, but they refuse to because they need to shove in more Fire Emblems and Pokemon.
The thing is their old IP aren't really going to bring in any new numbers. Adding in characters like Lip/Andy/RayMK3/Mike Jones/Mach Rider etc. only appeals to a subset of the same audience that already buys the games and hardly anyone is clamoring for them. New additions bring excitement and expand the fanbase. I know lots of PlayStation fans who picked up Smash for the first time because Cloud got in the game.
I mean it would be nice to see retro Nintendo picks but I understand why they wouldn't and I'm not complaining because I like seeing more third parties. Hope to see Crash and Spyro.
c10d05 No.15793129
>>15793047
There are plenty of good retro Nintendo picks that are third-party, though. K. Rool was a good example, since he was a Rare villain for a Nintendo IP. People are still crying about Geno, though, myself included because Square decided to include Cloud. I mean, they could have included Terra or Cecil as a Final Fantasy rep, since they were from SNES titles, but they chose fucking Cloud to advertise the FF7 remake instead. 7 isn't even that fucking good. 6 was infinitely better.
Fuck Square.
e25ec4 No.15793170
>>15793129
>having played multiple FF games and having an opinion on them
Ha, you're not the target audience. FF7 is the best known "classic" of the series.
I agree with the lad above that Ridley got in solely on meme value. Everyone has their popular picks and Waluigi is the new Ridley. The best equivalent/analogy that I can make is if God himself willed it upon image boards to truly make Millhouse a very successful meme.
Geno is now a classic popular pick but those rights aren't going anywhere fast. They leagally own him but they don't want to use him because it's their own OC character from a Mario game that Nintendo allowed them to make and it would be using a Mario franchise character (even though they fucking made him and own the rights) for their own benefit and something something Japanese respect.
I really think as long as a bunch of really crusty old fags are in charge at either company, Geno will be buried under thousands of tonnes of misplaced Jap humility but hey, everyone has a pick they want regardless of the odds, for instance I want Fawful, especially since apparently he's really fucking popular in Nipland it gives me that happy little shred of hope to hang onto.
3c838d No.15793184
>>15792881
>Crossovers that people only dreamed of when they were kids are now real because of Smash.
40e5a6 No.15793214
>>15793170
>Everyone has their popular picks and Waluigi is the new Ridley.
Actually, I disagree. I don't think Waluigi will make it in because they're capitalizing on the outrage. Waluigi is seen as the underdog, and him being rejected like this is what's getting all the attention. All those tweets and articles outraged over his treatment, it's all attention, it's all publicity. Hell, it got all the way to mainstream media. But as soon as Waluigi makes it in, he's nothing more than another Mario character in Smash. Sure, the 9 year olds will eat it up but the meme will die and so will the attention.
ddb982 No.15793219
>>15792881
>Crossovers that people only dreamed of when they were kids are now real because of Smash
Mugen has existed for almost two decades now.
f2a082 No.15793229
>>15793214
it also goes away if hes continuously rejected, if they want to capitalize on hype they have to do it before its too old. they probably realized this with ridley.
>>15793219
people dont even remember things without money behind them, while they continue to worry about money. yep.
b979d4 No.15793235
>>15791557
Usually, one company has to talk to another company and negotiate some sort of deal, anon.
But in general:
Snake: Sakurai and Kojima are friends
Sonic: People were basically screaming for this and he got added in last minute
Mega Man: I have no idea how they managed this
Pac Man: Namco was making the game, so he was basically neessary
Ryu: Already had a relationship with Capcom with Mega Man. Guarenteed Money Maker
Bayonetta: Had a relationship with SEGA with Sonic. Basically owns Bayonetta now, anyway
Cloud: Black Magic
Simon Belmot: I have no idea
f2a082 No.15793244
i am wondering if the first nep to smash will be blanc becuse shes nintendo, or nep because shes the alpha nep
40e5a6 No.15793248
>>15793235
>Mega Man: I have no idea how they managed this
Big NES icon, and Nintendo's pretty close with Capcom, due to Ace Attorney and MonHun.
>Cloud: Black Magic
Shekels, moreso.
>Simon Belmot: I have no idea
Konami is really close with Nintendo. They already agreed to return Snake with the only big demand on Konami's part being to change the Foxhound logo to the !, due to the Kojima connection. They already had that relationship, so adding more characters was not out of the question. Not only that, Konami had a launch title for the Switch with Bomberman. Out of all the third parties, Konami seems to be the most friendly and most willing, probably because it's good for their public perception, since they're not exactly a beloved company in the mainsteram.
e25ec4 No.15793253
>>15793214
They can only milk it for so long. I think he'll get in by Smash 7.
>>15793229
They may have waited too long, they may not have. But if they waited any longer of if he was in Brawl it wouldn't have had the same effect.
f2a082 No.15793261
>>15793248
final fantasy is a pretty big deal i think. who would be a more appropriate mascot? i think a moogle or that chocobo who stars in the spin off games would be cool or black mage who is super recognizable for some reason, but i kind of dont think as many people would be excited over those.
40e5a6 No.15793268
>>15793261
It's important to realize that there is a legitimate, significant, portion of the gaming populous, if you want to call it such, who think that the Final Fantasy series started with seven, so anything other than Cloud would have only served to appease people who were most likely buying the game anyway.
072c04 No.15793270
>>15792889
>Dwindling my ass
Work out more. Ride a bicycle.
>>15791557
Are they adding Alucard? They showed him in the trailer thingie.
40e5a6 No.15793279
>>15793270
>Are they adding Alucard? They showed him in the trailer thingie.
Ass trophy. Basically a helper character, so you can't play as him. Simon and Richter are full characters.
f2a082 No.15793293
>>15793268
i understand from a marketing perspetive, but that shit is for computers and im a meatbag. what would be the most heartfelt, honorable and overall appropriate thing while still maintaining enough recognizability to make people freakin happy as if they were doing this for the sake of creating fun and not for intangible exchange medium points?
072c04 No.15793294
>>15793279
That's fucking gay. The teleport and fireball move would've been badass. Such a cop out.
40e5a6 No.15793309
>>15793293
I'm guessing Terra or Kefka, since VI is probably the most beloved aside for VII. Anything past that is questionable, having both fans and critics. I suppose a Chocobo could work as a joke character as well but I don't think Square is interested in being a joke.
Another option would be Crono, but then we run into the issue of not enough people knowing about CT. It's far from what I'd call a normalfag game.
f2a082 No.15793333
>>15793270
>Work out more. Ride a bicycle.
laugh out loud
>>15793309
>Kefka
oh i hate that bastard but thats a good answer. i wonder what they would have done for the laugh.
>I suppose a Chocobo could work as a joke character as well but I don't think Square is interested in being a joke.
thats the vibe i get from them, would be most dishonorable if final fantasy were to be represented by something that i dont take 100% seriously. funkopops are serious business foreigner.
b9fbb7 No.15793368
>>15793047
>>15792933
>>15792950
>The thing is their old IP aren't really going to bring in any new numbers. Adding in characters like Lip/Andy/RayMK3/Mike Jones/Mach Rider etc. only appeals to a subset of the same audience that already buys the games and hardly anyone is clamoring for them. New additions bring excitement and expand the fanbase. I know lots of PlayStation fans who picked up Smash for the first time because Cloud got in the game.
I never understood why people say this. Normalfags don't give a shit about the roster. They have Pikachu and Mario, that's all they care about. Normalfags would buy Smash no matter what as long as its marketed properly.
The only third party characters left that would make sense to add are Banjo, Bomberman, and maybe Ryu (Not Street Fighter). Pac-Man, Simon, Sonic, and Mega Man are perfect guest characters, and Ryu, Richter, and Bayonetta are superfluous but generally OK. Cloud is complete fucking cancer and has no place in Smash, and Square doesn't even want him in Smash either with how shit his representation is. No one can convince me he wasn't a mistake to add.
40e5a6 No.15793378
>>15793333 (checked)
>i wonder what they would have done for the laugh.
If Sakurai got his way, they would have probably used the original. He seems quite fond of keeping these retro characters as similar to their original forms as possible (see Simon Belmont and Mega Man), but I'm not certain about Square. I'm guessing they would have told Nintendo to get some old man to angrily read some of Kefka's edgier lines in japanese-only.
>funkopops are serious business foreigner.
So are noodles.
>>15793368
Cloud is Cancer, but as other anons have stated and as jewtube reactions show, he was an exciting character. You can't get much better in terms of advertisement than every single media site in the world plastering in big letters
CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS
That's every executive's wet fucking dream.
Third parties are the driving point. Hell, look at the E3 trailer for Ultimate. What was the big break in the trailer? Snake being back. Not Ice Climbers, not Wolf, not any other Nintendo character but Snake because he was the one character no one expected to return. He was the perfect character to drive the point of "Everyone is here!"
b9fbb7 No.15793397
>>15793378
You're acting like
1. Normalfags and pretty much everyone and their mother won't buy Smash anyways
2. Acting like advertisement and shilling is somehow beneficial to the end product, quality-wise.
Cloud isn't a Nintendo character and has fuck-all association with the console. And Square seemed to be complete fucking jews about his inclusion, with TWO songs and fuck all outside of that. Compare that to Konami and Capcom, which effectively allow Sakurai to completely redesign their characters from the ground up. I would say either Black Mage or Slime would make much better reps from Square, but honestly fuck them if they intend to be such fucking stingy assholes about it.
1dd296 No.15793415
>>15793378
> He seems quite fond of keeping these retro characters as similar to their original forms as possible (see Simon Belmont and Mega Man), but I'm not certain about Square.
Is Cloud in his old outfit, his Advent Children getup, or something else? That would tell you a lot, regarding this.
40e5a6 No.15793423
>>15793397
>1. Normalfags and pretty much everyone and their mother won't buy Smash anyways
Smash went from being just a big game for fans to a system seller. They need to broaden appeal to ensure that people who aren't traditionally Nintendo fans consider buying it, and third parties are the way to do that. As anons mentioned, people actually bought Smash because of Cloud.
>2. Acting like advertisement and shilling is somehow beneficial to the end product, quality-wise.
This is not a discussion about Quality. If it was up to me, I'd rip out 2/3 of the fucking roster, Cloud included. This is a discussion about why they keep adding third parties.
And I'm not going to defend Square. Rumors are, they didn't even allow Cloud to be playable in the Story mode, being the only character not available, but I don't know if that was ever confirmed.
>>15793415
>Is Cloud in his old outfit, his Advent Children getup, or something else? That would tell you a lot, regarding this.
Both are available if I recall correctly.
1dd296 No.15793431
>>15793423
>Both are available if I recall correctly.
Then if you ask me they'd go for his old look from the FMV cutscenes.
07b623 No.15793476
>>15793368
>>15793378
>>15793397
>>15793423
Cloud was a heavy fan requested fighter. You can prefer any other Final Fantasy and their characters, but it's impossible not to know that 7 is the one everyone knows and probably played and seen as the most popular worldwide. Consider that a lot of GameFaqs character polls generally end up Link vs Cloud. Cloud is always front and center on any FF crossover affair. He gets, to use the old term, gets butts into seats better than, say, Bartz or Warrior of Light. To use a Simpsons quote, fans went "We'll give you money!" for Cloud. It's more of a shock that Square-Enix agreed, though we've seen that it came with a lot of strings attached. As we've seen with each 3rd-Party, there's a lot of dealings of what is and what isn't possible or what to expect: Sega okay with Sonic stuff but wants song ownership, Bandai Namco all for it but greedy about streaming, Konami whichever about Metal Gear compared to Castlevania…
To put another way, when going for Vania, Simon was the go-to. Richter only got in due to being another fan fave as well as being easy enough to tweak for inclusion. It's probably why something like an alt costume for Simon based on his Kojima Chronicles design wasn't a thing since devwork went into Richter.
f2a082 No.15793477
>>15793415
i remember some anons mentioning that he was not noodle armed as hes apparently become in squares games. i couldnt tell you though.
>>15793423
>They need to broaden appeal to ensure that people who aren't traditionally Nintendo fans consider buying it
i want to say that i cant imagine there are that many peolpe whos decision on buying a game and console teeter on whether or not specific non nintendo characters make it in.
but if i think about it i can see a scenario where they see a character they recognize and it catches their attention when they would have mostly ignored it otherwise.
im glad to know whoever calls the shots at rare wasnt thinking like that. im not saying banjo kazooie would have sucked but k.rool is kind of a literally who at this point and its nice to see them just happy for the free advertisement and respect.
f2a082 No.15793482
>>15793477
or is k.rool not even rares to begin with?
07b623 No.15793491
>>15793482
Rare created him with Nintendo overseeing it, but Nintendo owns K.Rool and pretty much all of the Country series stuff. It's why you see K.Rool and Kremlings in sports-spinoffs of Mario, as well as those portable Jungle Climber stuff barely anyone played.
45cf17 No.15793921
Remember Piranha Plant isn't a crime against this shitty series. Incinishit is.
561ba6 No.15793971
Because its cool an fun anon, they also either have a linked history with nintendo (like megaman and castlevania) or are just beloved characters from older games.
a1b36f No.15793983
>>15791557
>Is it just about the money
>now?
How fucking nu are yu?
fb96db No.15793995
>>15791557
>Why did they think it was a good idea to add non-nintendo characters to the new smash game?
>New
The only new one here is you
32d29b No.15794271
>>15793368
Ryu is actually good addition to Smash. SF2 was a big timed exclusive for the SNES back then similar to how Microsoft used PUBG to sell the Xbox One.
f5a06f No.15794628
>>15793129
>There are plenty of good retro Nintendo picks that are third-party, though. K. Rool was a good example, since he was a Rare villain for a Nintendo IP.
>>15793477
>but k.rool is kind of a literally who at this point and its nice to see them just happy for the free advertisement and respect.
K. Rool is first-party. Why do people keep thinking Nintendo doesn't own everything Donkey Kong? Same for people who think Shulk is third-party, Nintendo owns Xenoblade.
f8c1cf No.15794659
>>15793219
Yeah Nintendo finally caught on and went 'Yeah we can steal that'.
Normalfags don't know it exists and thus it's Nintendo's fresh new idea.
f2a082 No.15794708
>>15794628
>Why do people keep thinking Nintendo doesn't own everything Donkey Kong?
i am uneducated on most matters of merchantry
4e1cff No.15794724
>>15791557
>now
Go back where you came from. The last time Nintendo made a good game you probably weren't even born yet.
f2a082 No.15794727
>>15793971
why doesnt this artist have the decency to draw a real squid?
21c59f No.15805902
>>15791557
Crossovers sell. Look at Kingdom Hearts.
965158 No.15805908
but Mega Man and Simon Belmont are essentially Nintendo characters.
10c98c No.15811848
>>15791563
Dragonball is shit.
10c98c No.15811850
10c98c No.15811853
>>15794724
>The last time Nintendo made a good game you probably weren't even born yet.
33e235 No.15821617
>>15791595
Not for Nintendo it isn't. People will agree to it for free because it's huge publicity.
abedc6 No.15821653
a08282 No.15821710
>>15793248
>black magic
well, nintendo did work with squaresoft one time
10c98c No.15828035
04def2 No.15828807
>>15811853
The last good games Nintendo made were Super Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion.
7959e6 No.15831235
>>15791557
The way I see it, there's a certain amount of abuse of the fact that the series title doesn't necessarily imply being Nintendo only. I mean, there's a certain amount of leeway for non-exclusive third party, like Mega Man and Castlevania being mainstays of the NES and SNES era (much the way PSA ought to have sprung for Crash and Spyro), but there's less justification for the rest. Especially when there's still characters from games Nintendo themselves own being ignored in favor of third party multiplat (an issue Sony also had with how readily they put Donte and Big Daddy into PSA over characters like, say, Dart or Ashley). This causes the premise to be less celebration of Nintendo game and series, and more promotion of general series or companies/shekelgrubbing of fans of third party characters made DLC (though it seems some of the ones that were extra cost in Sm4sh are default in Ultimate). I suppose one could blame Brawl for opening that door with Snake and Sanic, but at the same time those were out and out guest, rather than feeling like the series was being being opened further than it should have been.
>>15793293
Terra/Locke/Edgar Pokemon Trainer style switch-in switch-out character? Would work with both being from a Final Fantasy that debuted on Nintendo and the game itself not exactly having one character as the outright protagonist. Personally though, a Dragon Quest rep, one from one of the first six titles, would probably be better as a company rep (being that they own both Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest post Enix merger), but I suppose such it would be a choice would likely have much more popularity in Japan, considering Final Fantasy is the more popular of the two in the west. No thanks to their lacking marketing for Dragon Quest here.
145aaa No.15840920
>>15828807
>The last good games Nintendo made were Super Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion.
What about Splatoon? Probably the only good new multiplayer IP to come out this entire generation.
ed882b No.15842047
>>15828807
Galaxy > 64 > Sunshine
The best part of Sunshine were those mini levels with the catchy music, it would suck without those.
the only Zelda worse than BOTW is SS
3550d1 No.15842105
>>15842047
what about the CDI games? :^)
33e235 No.15850136
>>15828807
You have terrible taste.
10c98c No.15854126
>>15842105
We like to pretend those never happened.