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File: 011727505363393⋯.jpg (69.07 KB, 600x450, 4:3, 030.jpg)

b5232c  No.15784532

>character action game

Aint that some descriptive fucking genre definition.

Who came up with this bullshit? Why did it catch on?

Any action game have play as character what the fuck?!

7130e2  No.15784561

just action games cuckchan


c0a53b  No.15784589

>>15784532

I don't know but I assume some faggot got tired of being told that nuGoW had shit combat.


21efb1  No.15784617

It's a shit term, but we don't currently have a better one that's commonly accepted. Stylish action would be better.


21efb1  No.15784620

>>15784589

Character action refers to DMC and it's derivatives though.


041ee3  No.15784627

>>15784532

Blame the Super Best Friends Play channels, since they pushed the term hard on their podcasts and various videos. Stylish action is a much better description, so I encourage you to use that instead.


c0a53b  No.15784642

>>15784620

And people defend nuGoW's combat by saying it isn't fair to compare it to DMC's combat because it isn't in the same genre.


31eabe  No.15784684

>>15784642

What? Aren't both of them Hack and Slash?


a445a2  No.15784765

Kamiya refers to them as "Stylish Action" games and he essentially created the genre with Devil May Cry. It describes the genre perfectly.


d9a431  No.15784771

>>15784684

Previous God of War titles were hack-&-slash games in the same vein as Rygar and DMC. nuGod of War is an Action Adventure game.


7130e2  No.15784780

>>15784771

none of those are hack and slash games


eac997  No.15784794

>>15784684

I thought Hack and Slash was Diablo


62a381  No.15784796

They're called curayzee action games.


62d3ac  No.15784852

>>15784532

They're just action games with good combat


3f6f03  No.15784941

>>15784532

Wasn’t it Jim Sterling or one of those other Brits like Total cancer that came up with that stupid Character Action moniker?


26c973  No.15784967

Why do you even care?


568dd8  No.15785022

They're called 3D beat 'em ups. This isn't rocket science.


7130e2  No.15785028

>>15784941

It wouldn't surprise me. Every attempt a Brit has made at doing anything video game related has pretty much been a disaster.


75c427  No.15787730

File: 48c3b693a27af47⋯.png (42.42 KB, 620x346, 310:173, Character Action.png)

You should see how butthurt people get when people go against the grain and make fun of the term for what it is. This term is also pushed by the same people who think calling everything metroidvania or dark souls is dumb (and I agree), yet somehow have no problem with character action. This inconsistency boggles my mind.

>>15784627

What's even funnier is that despite their tendency to make fun of game journalists they admit that they think the term came from a random review.

Why the fuck would you adopt a term from some journo's review and not be able to see what's wrong with it?


f78bd5  No.15789196

>>15787730

I agree. CUHRAYZEE, character action, stylish action, etc aren't terms for a genre, but are just a shorthand for Platinum games, DMC series, Ninja Gaiden Black series, and other similar games that fill that itch.


21efb1  No.15789270

>>15784796

"curayzee" is really embarrassing to actually say out loud though. Stylish action is best.


f5c262  No.15789291

I've literally never heard this term used anywhere


f78bd5  No.15789545

>>15789270

I'd say good action games out loud, and cuhrayzee in imageboards and the like. I never talk to people so I've yet to say good action games and only ever used cuhrayzee/stylish.


19a8bf  No.15789629

The name makes a modicum of sense because it isn't really an RPG, but still has progression in the form of new weapons and combos, so to avoid calling them action RPGs which would be even shittier, the name is "character action" which refers to both the progression and the fact that the main character is usually much more fleshed out or outrageous than your average generic Western action protag. It's still vague as fuck, but then again, so is RPG.


53b299  No.15789730

File: 9413f82c1d0b776⋯.jpg (84.3 KB, 750x823, 750:823, DbcWGwoVMAMmPlJ.jpg)

It's like when fanboys tried to force "first person adventure" tag onto Metroid Prime to excuse Gamecube controls, or when that PS2 abortion Chaos Legion was called an RTS. It's done to distinguish whatever game you like from other similar games, and possibly to deflect some common criticism. Who cares that the game is less than an hour long and you mostly fight the same enemy over and over? That's a character action game tradition, you are supposed to play it again on modes that bloat that same enemy's stats by 50% and 100% after that.

Though in case with DMC and Platinum games it's mostly done to isolate a subgroup of action games that play similarly. If you made a thread saying "I just bought DMC5 and all of its pozzed microtransactions and I love it, what other action games do you guys recommend?", you probably wouldn't like it if someone suggested Spider-Man, Ni-Oh and Dynasty Warriors 9. I guess that this subgenre's definition becomes a little too loose if you include God Hand and Ninja Gaiden under the "character action" umbrella. And you can't even use "depth" and "quality" as the genre's defining features when Gungrave, Shinobi (PS2), older God of War games, and even Ninja Gaiden 3 are also supposed to belong to it. But even then, some common elements are still there - an at least moderately difficult action game that you replay over and over, that has a meaningless counter or gauge that goes up as you whack enemies, oh and the plot is ridiculous.

The name is stupid and insufficient, as is CUHRAYZEE that I love, but so is probably any other attempt to accurately describe these games in 1-3 words. This is hardly the first time a subgenre or even an entire genre got an ill-fitting name, so I find it difficult to complain here. Just look at requirements for something to be a fighting game or a roguelike. None of the rules that say that 1-on-1 Naruto games are not fighting games have anything at all to do with fighting, and that's not even to mention Smash memes. And roguelike enthusiasts can cherrypick which qualities define the genre so much that games very much unlike Rogue can still belong to it if you use anything but the most purist interpretation, but only so long as you don't call a game that just because it uses two of Rogue's most prominent features.

If we go deeper, a lot of subgenres don't actually have very descriptive names. Just look at this thread - not everyone even knows what "hack'n'slash" means anymore. It supposedly describes DMC well because you hack things AND you slash them, but not nu-GoW, Bloodborne, or, say, Chivalry. And Diablo? That must be a point and click adventure, because hack and slash is already taken. MOBA is a ridiculous name that can mean almost anything - people even used to call Overshit that with various degrees of seriousness. But if we assume that that's true, how is Quake 3 not a multiplayer online battle arena? And how is Overwatch not an arena FPS when it's an FPS on an arena, just like Unreal Tournament? And what even is an RPG if you neither roleplay in most of them (and in case you do it's an "immersive sim", not RPG), nor do they have anything to do with tabletop RPGs that original RPGs vaguely resembled anymore?

I mostly just wanted to say the first paragraph, the rest is a slightly longer "Is this actually a problem?".

>>15784532

>>15784642

>>15784765

>>15789196

It also seems like part of the confusion here seems to stem from people thinking that "character action" is supposed to be an entire separate genre, like racing or puzzle, rather than a subset of action games with some common features. I don't browse twatter unless it's for Japanese artists, but I'm almost certain that none of the fags that use the term mean that it's actually its own genre.


364aea  No.15789757

File: 99d311dae95f391⋯.jpg (43.46 KB, 506x789, 506:789, 99d311dae95f39113fb02df5e9….jpg)

A part of me wishes we could just stop trying to make or fit into new genres aside from the most broad and loose descriptions of gameplay.

>Platformer

Core of the game is jumping around and progressing through a level via movement

>Shooter

Camera mode doesn't matter, gameplay is about shooting the dudes to get to the end

>Strategy

You only get loose control and have to think about how to approach whatevers blocking your path to the end

>Puzzle

Solve a puzzle to get to the end

I ain't good at this but I'm fucking sick of everyone trying to slap every genre imaginable and then some made up ones on games. Makes it a pain in the ass to find new gameplay instead of making it easier.


54c3a9  No.15789781

File: dbf53c8bd8e769b⋯.gif (428.26 KB, 200x183, 200:183, 1421060529168.gif)

>>15784532

I never even heard of this shit. What games are supposed to fit in the genre and what games don't?

The thread isn't self explanatory without proper examples.


19a8bf  No.15790142

>>15789781

Essentially Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden and anything made by Platinum Games. There's a significant enough library to make it a solid and recognizable subgenre but no one can agree on what to call it.


736b08  No.15790155

File: 6edee4d0d99847d⋯.gif (192.76 KB, 500x285, 100:57, 1468955051031.gif)

The term role-playing game means you are playing a role. There are two ways to interpret it. One, you play as someone who you are not in real life, in other words, 99% of all games are RPGs. Two, your character in the game is playing a role, someone who he's really not, in other words, something like those theories of Mario 3 being a play.


21efb1  No.15790396

>>15789757

Yep. And then people start bitching that such and such a game is "a bad RPG" or "a bad platformer", because they're blinded by genre labels, instead of taking each game as it's own entity. What would these people say if they were around when System Shock came out? What is that game? A shitty FPS? A Shitty RPG? You need to break out of those boxes sometimes.


364aea  No.15790474

>>15790396

Thats going to happen anyways though. Ideally just not fucking use genres in the first place.


abc7d7  No.15790488

>>15784532

>character action game

I have never heard this term before and it sounds dumb. Who the fuck uses it?


c4a3be  No.15790505

I'd just like to take a moment to remind everyone that Devil May Cry was never good.

Carry on.


19a8bf  No.15790508

>>15790155

It's less about what the game does and what the "goal" of the game is, or the player, depending on your perspective. Doom isn't an RPG because you can't make meaningful decisions and flesh out the role of your character.


1f40cd  No.15790520

>adventure game

Any game have adventure what the fuck?!

>open world game

What game have CLOSED world???????


05675d  No.15790529

>>15784532

>role playing game

Aint that some descriptive fucking genre definition.

Who came up with this bullshit? Why did it catch on?

Any character game have playing as a role, what the fuck?


14e3ea  No.15790572

>>15784532

This kind of makes sense when you compare them to 2D beat 'em ups, where 2D beat 'em ups usually had large rosters of playable characters where each character had their strengths and weaknesses and special moves whereas these newer DMC-likes (or character action games) focus more on a single playable character, like Dante, Bayo, Ryu, Raiden, whatever, where there's a greater emphasis on player expression in combat in terms of the moves to your disposal (through techniques like style/weapon switching) as opposed to having to work around your weaknesses. Additional playable characters in character action games are usually an afterthought (or DLC) or just suffer from Vergil syndrome, where in order to stand out from the main character who has access over several styles of combat, the new one has to be incredibly specialized in terms of moveset and playstyle.

It's as if Streets of Rage 2 had only Axel and he could switch at any time between all four character's movesets. It's whether you want to enforce fun through placing restrictions on the player or giving him total freedom.


80b851  No.15790588

>hack and slash

>its not a diablo clone

>character action

>its not a churayzee its an action rpg this whole time

>shmup

>its an euroshump this whole time

>arena fps

>its a team-based shooter this whole time

>rts (rts-based)

>it's actually an rtt

>doom clone

>more of a wolfenstein clone or a dn3d clone

i fucking hate niggers


21efb1  No.15790593

>>15790505

It was good until Bayonetta made it obsolete.


504069  No.15790615

>>15784532

I have never seen this term. I've only seen the terms "hack and slash" and "spectacle fighter."


49a27e  No.15790656

File: 752ffa892b38606⋯.jpg (314.99 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 20170706175941_1.jpg)

>>15790593

<Which Time makes practically every encounter the same thing

<Jeanne is the only great boss, where most of the rest are your average Gigantic slow moving monster that are more spectacle then anything

<Dial combos make every set of weapons feel like the same thing

<Alfheim's are retardedly hard to find, basically making a guide mandatory and your forced to do them every time you play a level if you want a Pure Platinum.

The main that Bayo actually does well is the scoring system keeps you on the offensive, but aside from that Please enlighten me in what aspects does Bayonetta do anything better then Devil May Cry


49a27e  No.15790678

>>15790656

Oh forgot one, Jeanne and King little Zero have the exact same movelist as Bayonetta, but they aren't alternate costumes you need to restart the entire game over again. At least that part was fixed in Bayo 2.


ae3b0c  No.15790685

File: f60d88aba3e55d2⋯.jpg (137.42 KB, 442x460, 221:230, 980d02f0c2e941778e580841b5….jpg)

>>15784532

multiplayer online battle arena


4c5540  No.15790704

The correct term is Stylish Character Hack and Action Slash Adventure.


79d216  No.15790914

I was under the impression they were 3D Beat 'em Ups.

>go to small area

>fight a bunch of guys until you win

>move on to another area to do the same thing

>combos and special moves abound

>knocking enemies into the air for combos/crowd-control a common feature

>except this time its in a full 3D plane instead of a 2D one where you may or may not be able to walk up and down

Have I failed to understand what a Beat 'em Up is, or is Beat 'em Up considered a nongenre as well?


7bffff  No.15790987

>>15784642

Except they're both action, adventure, hack and slash games, the only difference is that God of Soy has shitty RPG mechanics and level design slapped on it.

The only people using the: "it isn't fair to compare it to DMC's combat because it isn't in the same genre" argument are sonygger shills defending God of Soy.


3f8947  No.15791003

File: d4e47a934a5be9d⋯.mp4 (146.23 KB, 640x360, 16:9, JCAmerica.mp4)

There will never a genre term as stupid as Immersive Sim.

No, I don't care if that hack Spector tried to coin it as a means to promote Deus Ex.


21efb1  No.15791147

>>15790656

more funs


49a27e  No.15791191

File: 31426d7331bb06a⋯.webm (6.31 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, Rainbow.webm)

>>15791147

Really well thought out points you got there.


c0a53b  No.15791288

File: 3d863cac0b66274⋯.png (69.85 KB, 737x1176, 737:1176, muhskyrim.png)

>>15789730

>And what even is an RPG if you neither roleplay in most of them (and in case you do it's an "immersive sim", not RPG), nor do they have anything to do with tabletop RPGs that original RPGs vaguely resembled anymore?

I said my piece here >>>/vg/89075

>I mostly just wanted to say the first paragraph, the rest is a slightly longer "Is this actually a problem?".

Let's assume that Skyrim is a good game (it isn't but bear with me). Skyrim is considered an RPG but what makes it good (which is nothing) is not what makes an RPG good. So everyone expects RPGs to be like Skyrim instead of being RPGs.


0392db  No.15791377

>People call games without RPG elements or roleplaying potential an RPG and then try to explain it by claiming that you're playing a character

>People call games like Smash Brothers a fighting game

>People call the Total War series grand strategy games

>Every platformer with powerups gets labeled a metroidvania game

>Roguelike

What ever happened to people just saying a game is an 'action adventure' game, or an 'action RPG'?

>>15790396

>System Shock

>A shitty FPS?

>A Shitty RPG?

It's an FPS/RPG hybrid you sideways mongoloid. Quit being obtuse. When you mix red and blue paint, you get a combination of red and blue, not 'red but bad'.


c5c411  No.15791461

Brainlets call them "character action games."

The proper term is "cuhrayzee"


34645b  No.15791643

File: c5ea692e7588cd8⋯.png (1.37 MB, 2117x552, 2117:552, stylish action.png)

>>15784532

I don't know where the term came from but I can tell you it's somewhat "new" and coined by people who play these types of games casually. These games where usually referred as DMC-like, stylish action or cuhrayzee (fairly recent term) by the community ever since it was decided to drop the hack'n slash label after having countless autistic discussions with diablofags and arpgfags. What's funny is that people still call them Hack and Slash

>>15790656

I agree with you but what Bayo has that DMC4 doesn't is that both games feel more as complete experiences when compared to it or even DmC, plus the quality of life features but not much else. That said, the low bar for entry and the fact that you can roll your face in the controller and Cereza will do all those crazy moves kinda turns me off sometimes, that's not to say the the game is bad or that it doesn't have it's complexities but I like the technicalities of DMC3 and 4 more because being actually flashy in those games has to be earned.

I mean fuck dude, DMC3 is almost 14 years old and DMC4 is 10 years old and people still play them religiously. Especially 3 now because of the Style Switcher.


557270  No.15791663

File: 0253d1022fcd80c⋯.png (70.48 KB, 462x350, 33:25, easy modo.png)

>>15790656

>Normal


24eefe  No.15791670

>>15790685

>singleplayer offline battle arena


d9a431  No.15791675

File: 586bc77aabf5190⋯.webm (13.29 MB, 888x500, 222:125, GoW now surpasses DMC.webm)

>>15784642

>people defend nuGoW's combat by saying it isn't fair to compare it to DMC's combat


0f1c98  No.15791695

>>15784684

>>15784771

No. Hack and Slash is Diablo-likes and other combat-focused RPGs. Journalists are retarded and thought "Hack and Slash" meant a game where you hack and slash at things, rather than being an established term with a history.


49a27e  No.15791696

File: a1a0564fea21403⋯.webm (2.48 MB, 640x360, 16:9, devil may cry 5 hood taun….webm)

>>15791643

I got nothing against Bayo, just that I think Platinum copies the template too much. It's why I hope DMC5 is gonna do well, it's gonna be a breath of fresh air for the genre I hope.

>>15791663

Getting Pure Plats honestly isn't that fun you only getting Normal out of me.


24eefe  No.15791701

>>15791695

>hack and slash isn't when everybody hacks in the game so you slash the game from your library out of rage


557270  No.15791706

>>15791696

Your argument has no ground to stand on if your very first point is "witch time makes every fight the same" and you haven't even played on the difficulty where witch time is disabled.


49a27e  No.15791737

>>15791706

but have beaten None stop infinite climax, I beat Rodin and i have every Umbran Tear of Blood, I just haven't Pure Platinum'ed Infinite Climax, it that doesn't change the fact that Normal and Hard still use it, and Bayonetta 2 doesn't disable Witch Time.

I also don't see how giving you a mechanic to use and rely on so heavily and then taking it away from just to make the game harder is good game design.

DMC1's DMD took away DT regenerating your health, that is upping the ante, it didn't take away DT completely.


557270  No.15791740

>>15791737

I can see right there in your screenshot you haven't even beaten the game on hard


49a27e  No.15791754

File: 7d287533da64cdb⋯.jpg (166.24 KB, 1689x621, 563:207, screen shot.JPG)

File: 238fa94b1306a2f⋯.jpg (206.59 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 20181128002141_1.jpg)

File: 55c8ba02aeee227⋯.jpg (379.32 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 20181128002158_1.jpg)

>>15791740

It's just an old Screen shot

I also own 3 copies of Bayonetta 1 on 360, Wii U, and Steam


557270  No.15791775

>>15791754

>those fucking scores on hard

No wonder you don't like the game.

To answer your original question though,

>Please enlighten me in what aspects does Bayonetta do anything better then Devil May Cry

Dodge offset. Dodge offset is such a perfect,obvious mechanic that improves the genre it's incredible that it took so fucking long to emerge. It's a mechanic that rewards you offensively and defensively. The entire point of it is to turn the simple dial-a-combos into more complex and interesting ones. Any game in the "stylish action" or "character action" or whatever you wanna call it genre is inherently gimped without it. That's not to say that the DMC games are bad by any means but having a game in this genre without dodge offset being a thing is like having a platformer without a run mechanic.


49a27e  No.15791816

>>15791775

>No wonder you don't like the game.

What part of "I own 3 copies" makes you think I don't like Bayo? I don't like it as much as DMC or Ninja Gaiden.

Dodge Offset works for Platinum's style of game, but i don't necessarily think it would be a huge improvement if it were added to DMC, unless things were re worked to complement the system.

I prefer the DMC system over Dial combos since DMC's combos are to the point and are short enough that you aren't locked in place for too long unless you commit to something like a Crazy Combo, The Style moves are also single moves that serve specific purposes. Having the combos be to the point and adding the Style moves to give weapons more utility, in turn has it so each weapon get to be more unique and stand out against the others.

Where as Bayo's combos are made in such a way that your pretty much forced to utilized Dodge Offset if you want to play effectively since Wicked Weaves are so important, not that it's a bad thing that's just how Bayo is.


5088bf  No.15792887

File: 5bcda689c10c935⋯.png (218 KB, 411x445, 411:445, hmmm.png)

>>15791775

I'm not to shit on Bayonetta I think those games are fun as fuck but you are aware that dodge-offset wasn't conjured out of thin air, it was a mechanic added out of necessity because the combos in Bayonetta are much longer and you're more reliant on witch time and wicked weaves for heavy damage and also to give you more versatility on your basic moveset. In DMC the average combo uses 3-5 inputs unless it's a crazy combo and they've remained as such throughout the series so that you've to switch weapons because each weapon has a more specialized role. Both systems serve different purposes, dodge offset isn't something that you can simply add to every game in the genre unless you want all of them to play exactly like Bayonetta.


3a4f7c  No.15792949

>why did it catch on?

did it? I rarely hear it.


c0a53b  No.15794879

>>15792949

Apparently, Steam used it as a tag like "RPG Game."


39d139  No.15794895

File: b885a3ef93565a2⋯.jpg (30.53 KB, 393x385, 393:385, Irregular_480293_Year_of_M….jpg)

>>15791675

>DmC the fucking britbong piece of shit looks passable as an action game next to Nu-GoW

Oh I'm laughing.




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