3d7b3d No.15574006
The PS1's lack of z buffer actually was an aesthetic advantage for a lot of titles on the system. The reason being that instead of flat samey textures on low-poly models like most of that generation the warping creates subtle differences in the way the same texture looks depending on the angle it is being displayed at. This made 3D environments on the PS1 feel more alive compared to other systems.
For example the warping could make a simple 3D object look more complex without requiring additional hardware resources; a rock with bumps, a bend in a piece of metal, or contours on a wall.
282f07 No.15574038
>>15574006
Correct. The PS1's limitations were indeed limitations, but the games made for it took advantage of these limitations and made them into something positive, thus redeeming them completely.
56b829 No.15574051
>>15574006
I wonder if the same techniques could be used to create the illusion of 2D animation?
a6271f No.15574063
>>15574051
Spline animation has been around for some time.
5d8609 No.15574092
>>15574006
>muh z buffer
It was the lack of subpixel precision causing the wobble effect, not the lack of a z buffer, and the texture warping is caused from a lack of perspective correct texturing.
And no, it's not a positive trait you hipster fuck, it actually causes original detail to be lost in a jumble of garbage polygons. This is especially noticeable on models with fine detail.
fc163b No.15574093
>>15574006
You're confusing affine texture mapping with z-buffers somehow, OP.
2de5bc No.15574120
>the reason why it looks good is because it looks like shit
ok now this is epic
30fd35 No.15574125
No sir I don't like it. I'm not usually bothered by dated graphics but the lack of affine texture mapping makes me nauseous these days.
3d7b3d No.15574130
>>15574092
>it actually causes original detail to be lost in a jumble of garbage polygons
Care to give an example?
>>15574120
Nice argument.
3d7b3d No.15574159
>>15574142
First pic isn't even the same model positioning, second one I don't even notice a difference.
5d8609 No.15574170
>>15574159
>second one I don't even notice a difference
Okay, so we've established that you're blind. Well, your OP makes far more sense now, so there's that I guess.
282f07 No.15574174
>>15574142
I don't think occurrences like the first pic's left example happened in the original console.
3d7b3d No.15574178
>>15574170
>i'm a cock gobbling faggot! look at me being such a faggot in your thread OP!
There is no difference unless you count the completely edited grids to the sides, which it is laughable that you expect me to.
53ff62 No.15574182
>>15574142
PCSXR is about the same as ePSXe in terms of graphical fidelity, PGXP or not. The original hardware did not have fucked up polygons emulators do. That's exclusive to emulators, because they're emulators, not actual console. They emulate the actual console.
5d8609 No.15574193
>>15574174
It does, it's just much less noticeable at native res on a crt.
>>15574178
heh.
>>15574182
8/10
3d7b3d No.15574206
>>15574193
>im gonna screencap this for a good chortle later on between my cum guzzling sessions
Oh wow, again you can see that the model isn't exactly in the same position. Is that some kind of breathing animation at work? Who could know from your static image?
8d1062 No.15574208
>>15574159
The easiest place to spot the difference is Kid's right leg.
5d8609 No.15574224
>>15574206
Is this really the hill you want to die on? Would it physically hurt you to just admit you were wrong on the internet?
fc163b No.15574226
>>15574206
>breathing animations crumple your legs
For someone so opinionated you sure do seem to not know what the fuck you're talking about.
3d7b3d No.15574227
>>15574208
Okay, but it doesn't even address my argument in the OP at all. It's far lower poly models than any of my examples, at a reduced resolution (compared to the screen as a whole), on an emulator, and the images aren't even close to the same frame. Not to mention these are character models which my argument in the OP completely left out.
3d7b3d No.15574232
>>15574226
>moving at a small resolution won't affect the way a model looks
Right, you are retarded.
d20bb8 No.15574235
>>15574193
>It does, it's just much less noticeable at native res on a crt.
As someone who uses original hardware upscaled to a large display: No it doesn't.
5d8609 No.15574245
>>15574235
I'm running Wild 9 right now on my fat panny crt. Yes. Yes it does.
d20bb8 No.15574253
>>15574245
Sounds like your hardware is fucked up bro, but more likely sounds like you play via emulation.
282f07 No.15574261
>>15574193
>It does
So you want to play the "graphical accuracy" game. Fine.
You do know PSX games render naturally at 256x224 to 640x480 at most, right? Even 512x512 was considered high definition for the console back then. If it was present and wasn't very noticeable on CRTs of that age, nobody really noticed - or even cared, thus making this entire topic pointless because you're pretending these minute, negligible details that weren't noticed in games from the 90's on HD resolutions are some sort of big deal.
So, why are you even boasting about emulation "accuracy" from a 20+ year old console that did have the problems in the first place? What's the point? To make a 32-bit game look marginally better? I've seen less autism from FLAC audiophiles.
3d7b3d No.15574270
>>15574249
I didn't say it was a feature. For low poly environments it creates an aesthetic beyond the hardware limitations. This obviously isn't always the case as it also makes things look worse when the camera is in mid movement due to jiggling, but otherwise is breaks up the sameness of repeating textures quite well. It obviously takes a bit of imagination, but that is par for the course concerning low poly environments anyway.
5d8609 No.15574271
>>15574253
>my fat ps2 with a ps1 chip in it is broken, and this is why the ps1 lacks subpixel precision
Imagine having brain problems like this.
5d8609 No.15574277
>>15574261
>So you want to play the "graphical accuracy" game.
No, I'm playing the "I'm objectively correct, while you're wrong and clearly upset" game. The rest of your post is just schizo rambling that has nothing to do with anything, or the OP's shit opinion that hardware limitations are actually a feature.
fc163b No.15574278
>>15574232
So now you're agreeing with his original point that the lack of floats causes distorted polygons? Do you even know what you're arguing about anymore?
d20bb8 No.15574279
>>15574271
If your hardware is displaying issues like that then yeah man sounds like something is wrong with your system. PS1 graphics don't get that fucked up on real hardware. You're not going to change my mind, I play on it constantly. Also why are you butthurt saging?
3d7b3d No.15574281
>>15574278
I don't think you understand anything that has been said by me at all.
282f07 No.15574286
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15574277
>No, I'm playing the "I'm objectively correct, while you're wrong and clearly upset" game
And you're losing hard.
This is what things looked like back then, most likely before you were even born. Try nitpicking that one on your 4K, shortbus.
You mednafaggots are insufferable.
fc163b No.15574288
>>15574281
That's hardly surprising considering you're a retard that thinks z-buffers are used for texture mapping.
3d7b3d No.15574292
>>15574288
>i can't even follow what you have been saying so lol I'll strawman, this makes you retarded.
You two faggots can stop shitting up my thread anytime now.
5d8609 No.15574294
>>15574279
Wait, wait. Are you actually claiming that your PS1 has perspective correct texturing and subpixel precision?
>>15574286
Are you honestly telling me that you can't see the jittering all over the racer? Or the polygons snapping as you go past them, exposing white blank spots in the terrain?
You're just as blind as the OP.
d20bb8 No.15574303
>>15574291
>ur just a newfag
Truly the cry of a man who has no argument. What you're doing is essentially reddit downvoting the thread because you don't like it's contents. Saging on this board is to be used for off topic posting. You're posting perfectly on topic. If you don't like the thread, maybe don't post in it.
788e3a No.15574307
Protip: sometimes fucked up geometry is the accurate rendering. I was playing Monster Rancher 2 in Retroarch recently, toying around with high resolution, PGXP, widescreen hack, etc., and I noticed that certain monsters just had fucked up models during certain animations. I wanted to test if this was caused by the emulation, or if it was always a part of the game, so I dusted off my PS1, loaded up the game, got the same monster, and low and behold the exact same model glitches existed on real hardware. They were much harder to spot at 240p, but I could tell it was still the same glitch.
d20bb8 No.15574309
>>15574294
No, I'm pointing out that at no point does it ever looked that fucked up.
>>15574303
Silly me for not reading IDs, this is more meant for >>15574294 though again crying newfag is pretty pathetic.
d20bb8 No.15574317
>>15574308
You know that just saying things and posting cuckchan images doesn't make you right. I haven't been backed in to any corner, in fact if you'll look at my posts in this thread I just fucking got here. Again though: nice cuckchan image. That meme font helps you fit in nicely.
282f07 No.15574320
>>15574294
>Are you honestly telling me that you can't see the jittering all over the racer?
The jittering is obvious due to the integer coordinate system of the PS1. Yes, it jitters. What it doesn't do, is grossly render textures out of the models and make them look like trash like emulators do in the pictures you posted earlier. The PS1 had none of that.
The only blind faggot here is you.
5d8609 No.15574322
>>15574309
>doesn't understand IDs
>thinks i called him a newfag
Literal fucking brain problems.
fc163b No.15574326
>>15574292
>>15574006
>The PS1's lack of z buffer actually was an aesthetic advantage for a lot of titles on the system. The reason being that instead of flat samey textures on low-poly models like most of that generation the warping creates subtle differences in the way the same texture looks depending on the angle it is being displayed at.
You directly attribute affine texture mapping artifacts to the lack of a z-buffer. How am I strawmanning?
d20bb8 No.15574333
>>15574324
Go back to cuckchan faggot.
>>15574322
>I can't read
Nigger, read that chain of posts again. I know you're slow, but maybe the second time through you'll see the anon who called me a newfag. Also stop butthurt saging like a cuck.
788e3a No.15574342
>>15574326
Does the pic in >>15574320 show that the texture warping is due to a lack of z buffer to divide with?
3d7b3d No.15574351
>>15574326
>You directly attribute affine texture mapping artifacts to the lack of a z-buffer. How am I strawmanning?
1: You are pretending I argued this point after it was contested.
2: You are pretending to be retarded and not know where you were strawmaning (hint: it had nothing to do with this pathetic shit you just posted.)
5d8609 No.15574354
>>15574320
Ah, now here's where things get interesting. So you're admitting that we do indeed have those issues on original hardware, although again, far less noticeable at original res on a CRT as I originally mentioned.
Feel free to explain that to d20bb8, who claims that original hardware does not have those issues, and that everyone else just has broken hardware. See:
>>15574235
>>15574253
>>15574279
>>15574333
>Go back to cuckchan faggot
>butthurt saging like a cuck
Yikes.
064a02 No.15574360
>>15574354
>butthurt saging like a cuck
that's not how a cuck would respond though
d20bb8 No.15574370
>>15574354
By the way, I never claimed hardware didn't have the issues, I said they weren't noticeable or look as horrible as your shitty emulator screenshots. Learn to read.
d20bb8 No.15574380
>>15574374
Yeah, I'm sure your opinion is totally unbiased and should be listened to. Not like you're the faggot who was calling me backed in to a corner when I had just arrived earlier. Your sage advice will be taken under counsel faggot
5d8609 No.15574381
>>15574370
See >>15574235
We have IDs here, so I honestly don't know what you're trying to pull, or why you're still going at it and making yourself look fucking retarded instead of just closing the thread and moving on.
d20bb8 No.15574390
>>15574381
And? All I'm saying there is my picture on my systems doesn't get as fucked up as >>15574193
I can tell you're autistic because you're clearly having a hell of a time with context.
282f07 No.15574393
>>15574354
>So you're admitting
I recognized the jittering in my first post, before even you showed up.
I'm also educating you that the jittering is not at all related to the fucked up texture rendering in emulators. Stop twisting my words, child.
d20bb8 No.15574396
>>15574389
No but what I will do is filter your fag ass as clearly you're infatuated with me and ignoring you is the only way to get you to stop posting ancient memes to reassure yourself that you fit in.
5d8609 No.15574403
>>15574393
>I'm also educating you that the jittering is not at all related to the fucked up texture rendering in emulators
See >>15574092
I already explained this before you even showed up and started waving your dick around, child.
3d7b3d No.15574410
>>15574403
subpixel precision doesn't cause the warp in textures >>15574320
5d8609 No.15574415
>>15574410
Did you even read the entire post before shitting out that response you absolute fucking mongoloid?
cad42e No.15574418
>>15574142
>blows up game to 10 times it resolution
>see all these flaws
maybe run it at the intended resolution and you'll see what the developers intended you to see
d20bb8 No.15574422
>>15574403
>itallics child
Wow dude, you're a fucking faggot.
3d7b3d No.15574423
>>15574415
Did you?
<I'm also educating you that the jittering is not at all related to the fucked up texture rendering in emulators
<texture rendering
>here's a post about subpixel precision as a counter!
5d8609 No.15574426
>>15574423
Re-read >>15574092 very carefully. I'll wait.
d20bb8 No.15574428
>>15574426
Are you Sargon of Akkad by any chance? You seem very… sure of yourself.
3d7b3d No.15574432
>>15574426
Yeah still not seeing how that post addresses what anon said at all. I'll wait for you to formulate an up to date argument instead of relying on that the erroneous one earlier in the thread.
f804ae No.15574435
>>15574426
Anon, are you sad? You're becoming a lolcow and you don't even have a name yet. The best way to convince and persuade people is to NOT be autistic as fuck.
788e3a No.15574436
>>15574092
>the texture warping is caused from a lack of perspective correct texturing.
The z buffer is part of that perspective calculation. No z buffer, no perspective correct texturing.
fc163b No.15574437
>>15574342
No. It's saying PSX texture mapping didn't use the Z coord and linearly interpolates between UVs on the polygons.
>>15574351
>1: You are pretending I argued this point after it was contested.
No I didn't. I said you were retarded for saying it at all because it shows you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
282f07 No.15574440
>>15574403
Then why the fuck are you parading >>15574142 when it clearly shows the exact texture glitches I just told you are not present in the original hardware, while arguing with me that they were?
What the fuck is your problem? Make up your goddamn mind.
3d7b3d No.15574445
>>15574437
>>15574436
I believe where he fucked up was not reading the OP carefully enough.
>>15574437
And you are wrong on that. The texture warping is due to the z buffer and this entire thread was only about the textures. Reread the OP or go be a faggot somewhere else.
cad42e No.15574449
>>15574440
They are they're just much harder to see because 240p. They're irrelevant on original hardware but they are there. It's basically the most "well achuyally technically" form of being correct, so it's fucking meaningless.
If you emulate you're basically signing up for a shittier experience that you need to jump through a hundred hoops to make tolerable. The polygon warping is mostly visible in a typical emulation environment.
d22157 No.15574452
>>15574261
>these minute, negligible details that weren't noticed in games from the 90's on HD resolutions
- Sony Playstation released in US in 1994.
- The first HDTV was released for sale in the US in 1998.
- SD only goes up to 480 lines
3d7b3d No.15574467
>>15574461
>mods pls delete dis thread i helped derail
c5acc2 No.15574470
>This amount of denial.
So that's why we have pixel shit games. Its because of YOU faggots.
d20bb8 No.15574472
>>15574452
Yeah because everyone had an HDTV in 1998, right? It's not like they were a rare luxury item or anything crazy like that.
3d7b3d No.15574486
>>15574470
I can tell that you didn't bother reading the OP, because no where did I advocate going back to this form of rendering or say that it was superior for high poly models.
d22157 No.15574497
>>15574472
can you just shut the fuck up and admit you're wrong?
fc163b No.15574505
>>15574436
I think you're misunderstanding what z-buffers are. It doesn't mean using the z-coord for texture mapping calculations. Z-buffers are used to track the depth of rendered pixels from the camera.
>>15574445
>The texture warping is due to the z buffer
No it isn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texture_mapping#Affine_texture_mapping
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-buffering
If you pull some >wikipedia shit and can't just search for these terms yourself I swear to fuck anon.
788e3a No.15574510
The PS1 is using integer math to calculate the position of vertices, and it is very inaccurate, and at 240p or 480i those inaccuracies are noticeable but not severe enough to be considered an issue. An accurate emulator is still doing the exact same math, so it has the exact same inaccuracies as real hardware, and again emulating at 240p or 480i the issues would be noticeable but not critical. It's when you are emulating at significantly higher resolutions while still using integer math do the issues become apparent. Now when the image is being rasterized, the position of vertices goes from being half a pixel or one pixel off, to dozens of pixels off, resulting in the truly bizarre looking render.
To give some examples, when I play Spyro games on emulator, I usually play at 2x native res, which improves the resolution but without dramatically exposing the inaccuracies of the integer math. When I play Monster Rancher 2 however, I play at 8x resolution with widescreen hack, and enable PGXP to do away with the severe inaccuracies of the integer math. The rest of the issues I've noticed while playing the game that way were always present in the game on real hardware, as I mentioned here >>15574307
d20bb8 No.15574513
>>15574497
What exactly am I wrong about faggot?
3d7b3d No.15574527
>>15574505
>wikipedia
Seriously though, I conceded this point. It is irrelevant anyway to my original argument of the visual effect, but that has long past been ignored thanks to you faggots autistically derailing it over the specifics of why it happens.
fee266 No.15574539
Good ass thread actually, solid topic and the weapons grade autism that built this place. Sage for meta, please continue.
fc163b No.15574559
>>15574527
>I conceded this point.
>>15574445
>And you are wrong on that. The texture warping is due to the z buffer
3d7b3d No.15574577
>>15574559
Typo. Concede*. You may continue being autistic though. The thread has been shit up enough already that it doesn't even matter.
d22157 No.15574580
>>15574577 (dubs confirm thread was shitted up and derailed by spergs)
788e3a No.15574583
>>15574505
>Some hardware combines texture mapping with hidden surface determination in tile based deferred rendering or scanline rendering; such systems only fetch the visible texels at the expense of using greater workspace for transformed vertices. Most systems have settled on the Z-buffer approach, which can still reduce the texture mapping workload with front to back sorting.
>Most systems have settled on the Z-buffer approach
>the Z-buffer approach
>Z-buffer
So yeah, modern perspective correct texture rendering uses the z-buffer in the calculation, according to Wikipedia. It makes sense, When mapping UV texture coordinates to you XYZ space, why wouldn't you check the Z-buffer to find the exact coordinate in 3D space a specific pixel of the texture should be placed?
e1fe21 No.15574590
3D PS1 games always made me feel sick. Could only play 2D ones. Ports to other systems were fine, but 3D games are all unplayable.
fc163b No.15574786
>>15574583
Unless I'm misreading that's talking about eliminating needless texture mapping calculations with a z-buffer. i.e. You draw a cube close to the camera then a cube behind that: you don't need to rasterize or texture map that second cube because the z-buffer reads will see that it already has drawn something closer to the camera on those pixels. That's expected.
>why wouldn't you check the Z-buffer to find the exact coordinate in 3D space a specific pixel of the texture should be placed?
Well the z-buffer doesn't store co-ordinates, just floats in 0 to 1 range. Besides that you're thinking about it backwards anon. Texturing is an illusion done after things have been transformed and projected into screen-space. If you still care about the depth at that point it's still available to you (talking about more modern APIs here) without the need to keep an entire z-buffer.
cad42e No.15574810
>>15574590
I find the 3D games to be very nice looking. Only some have serious swimming issues. By 96/97 developers minimized a lot of it that it is unnoticeable at the correct resolution.
cdce21 No.15575635
>>15574226
wait a minute? are you saying your legs don't crumble whenever you breath? am i in bizarro world?
cdce21 No.15575673
>>15575642
PS1 = CPU:32 bit NEC R3000 @ 33.8688 MHz 1994
N64 = CPU:64-bit NEC VR4300 @ 93.75 MHz 1996
98949f No.15575678
>>15575642
>Nintendo 64 uses 2D models
huwoaht>>15575642
5b225b No.15575709
>>15574006
That's great for Silent Hill, but for games that try to portray something like reality, it just makes things look weird and wobbly.
70723b No.15577412
>>15574428
but, have you read Locke?
2c0aca No.15577714
>>15574092
>It was the lack of subpixel precision causing the wobble effect,
It's the GTE not being a proper Zbuffer and using a rudimentary ROT as well as not being able to do floating point math for polygon coordinates that cause most of the issue with the 3D side of things, iirc affine texture mapping is also an issue but it's independent of the lack of Zbuffer or the GTE being integer math only.
a89107 No.15577827
That warping isn't because of a lack of a zbuffer you dummy, that warping is from the VFX chip having bad default calcs.
Zbuffer is when polygons "bleed" in front of other polygons.
0eb81b No.15577874
Why does every PS1 thread lately devolve into affine texture bullying?
ecf8bd No.15577913
>>15574006
>OP post high-IQ thread that requires understanding of the topic being discussed to appreciate
>get a bunch of retard posters arguing that OP is stupid when they were too young to have touched a PS1 in its prime
like pottery
fc163b No.15577951
>>15577913
>sticking up for OP after even he admitted he was using the wrong term
>whining about people being autistic about PSX's rendering limitations in a thread about PSX's rendering limitations
2c0aca No.15577976
>>15577874
Could be worse, people could be arguing about the dithering.
a89107 No.15577983
>>15577976
DITHERING IS A COMPLETELY UNDERAPPRECIATED ART YOU BOHEMIAN TROGLODYTE.
2c0aca No.15578013
>>15577983
I don't disagree, although the way the PS1 does it sometimes looks absolutely horrible with some 3D games.
The argument was whether it was intended on PS1 or not now that you can disable it on real hardware through a GS code.
fb9032 No.15578081
can someone help me properly emulate using psxe? i want to play harvest moon. i dont like filters, but i do like CLEAN. pete's d3d plugin looks kinda nice but is glitchy. the default plugin looks dirty. what are my alternatives?
suggested settings? 4x resolution makes any game too cinematic for me but looks really good. 2x is where i want to be. all of the filters are jarring.
should i use a different emulator? will they look better?
3d7b3d No.15578088
>>15577951
I was wrong about the cause, but again that was irrelevant to the point that I was making. There was obviously some asspain over the implications of my argument since my use of zbuffer was latched on to in order to derail the thread.
There still hasn't been a good counter argument to the OP. The closest was bullshit about model warping which had nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Rereading the thread I've come to the conclusion that it is either emu fags who love their filters and other such "improvements" or console warriors that don't like a negative for the PS1 being seen in a positive light.
00a2c6 No.15578469
This fucking thread. This is why I love you faggots. You may have autism, be wrong at times, but damned if you won't argue your points at least. I've learned more from you guys than all 6 years of school.
8f90e6 No.15578483
>>15574006
>Guyses, this here bugs, it is not bugs, it is featureses!
What glorious ham, magnificant pie, it is features!
3d7b3d No.15578579
>>15578469
I learned some things too.
713de6 No.15578737
>>15578469
Everything I know about arguing/debating I learned on imageboards. I don't know if it's actually really fucking good or if everyone around me is just a fucking moron. Maybe both.
af6775 No.15579037
>>15575673
It boggles my mind that the N64 is several times faster than its competition yet has the least 60fps games of all. Even the 3D games don't look particularly great or run very well compared to the PS1 and even the Saturn in a lot of cases.
cdce21 No.15581654
>>15579037
that's because the n64 was shit and used cartridges rather than cd which held much higher data.
N64 Cartridge 512Mebibit = 67 Megabyte
Ps1 CD 4959.11Mebibit = 650 Megabyte
the ps1 also had vram which the n64 lacked.
Sony originally wanted to partner with Nintendo and release the Nintendo/Playstation Console, but Nintendo became jewish and wanted to retain the CD rights to game sales even though sony created the cd technology. Nintendo backstabbed sony as sony was going to show it off and made a deal with philips instead to create a console, they eventually created the N64.
8dc8b9 No.15581736
>>15574092
This makes me wonder if anyone attempted a software solution to it in they games.
5edbcc No.15581783
>>15581654
God you're a humongous retard.
4cd609 No.15581798
>>15581654
>this much Sony cockchugging
Sony wanted the full rights for every game published on the cooperative Playstation, which is incredibly Jewish and no sane company would agree to it. Sony, like always, were the backstabbing Jews here.
3e67ed No.15581832
>>15574092
Intentional distortion has been a method used in various artistic mediums for a long time. Good example is distortion in electric guitars - wasn't intentional at first, but became extremely popular due to the merit found in its artistic applications. A similar thing can be seen with the grindy FM synth sounds of the Sega Genesis/YM-2612 (or similar) soundchip, seen in a lot of synthwave nowadays.
5edbcc No.15581844
>>15581810
>m-muh soyny dindunuffin man!!
fuck off.
cdce21 No.15581883
>>15581798
>>15581783
>Sony wanted the full rights for every game published on the cooperative Playstation
Nintentoddler proving yet again their brains are hollow and filled of soy, Sony wanted rights to CD based game sales, since they invented the cd technology and was manufacturing the console themselves, nintendo would have all profits on cartridge based games. Nintendo was absolutely jewish.
a08528 No.15581895
>>15574006
No, it was aliasing from low render resolution and a lack of mipmapping that created the illusion of view-dependent lighting and rough edges. Affine transformation issues looked hideous and had to be worked around by increasing the polygon count.
a08528 No.15581908
>>15579037
The problem was that they promised the equivalent of the Silicon Graphics workstations the games were developed on, but then pared down the specs and memory on the final product and cancelled the N64DD while several high budget games were already in development for it. If Nintendo had been forthcoming about what they were going to ship then perhaps the developer support could have been there to master the platform, but studios just got frustrated and jumped ship which the publishers gladly obliged due to the heavy cost of releasing an N64 cartridge.
bcf5c0 No.15582130
>>15581895
>aliasing
>mipmapping
I am seriously starting to think /v/ is full of retards considering how few actually read and understand the OP.
bfe749 No.15582220
>>15582130
Stop projecting you fucking retard.
0c56a5 No.15582272
>>15581883
>>15581892
This is somewhere in the top 10 for the dumbest shit I've read this year.
The primary concern was speed and the secondary concern was support chips.
Where CD was slow and cumbersome, carts could in some cases read 1:1 from storage at double the rate of the competition.
Where CD was pure storage, carts could (and often did) include custom chips that allowed developers to bypass the N64's rather flimsy hardware capabilities.
If they shipped the same console and no carts, many of the N64's best games would have been simply impossible to release.
bfe749 No.15582280
>>15582272
>Where CD was pure storage, carts could (and often did) include custom chips that allowed developers to bypass the N64's rather flimsy hardware capabilities.
Which is why most of these games with enhanced cartridges were either developed or published by Nintendo since they didn't give a fuck about reaching out to 3rd parties.
af6775 No.15582296
>>15582280
I don't think there's any N64 games with expansion hardware.
3e0d13 No.15582355
Maybe it looked good because it was made by teams of artists who used actual colors instead of brown. It also was on a resolution that was perfect for the polycount.
3e0d13 No.15582372
>>15574006
>The reason being that instead of flat samey textures on low-poly models like most of that generation the warping creates subtle differences in the way the same texture looks depending on the angle it is being displayed at. This made 3D environments on the PS1 feel more alive compared to other systems.
Also in Spyros case this wasn't due to warping. Someone in /agdg/ looked at how the game's textures looked in memory and it turns out there's noise applied to it.
bfe749 No.15582378
>>15582296
I thought Conker did, the N64'S mappers could be considered "expanders" since people knew jack shit how to program for it.
3e0d13 No.15582381
Can you guys tell which one has z-buffering?
>>15582378
Conkers and RE2 I know for sure did. Conkers didn't even need one. The devs straight up said there was a bug in the code somewhere they couldn't find.
555fb3 No.15582490
>>15582381
You're thinking of DK64, they shipped it with the memory expansion cartridge because of that.
Conker instead, one guy had to rewrite the entire N64 Reality Coprocessor code by reverse-engineering the japanese code comments. It's how it could get away with great lighting and such.
db6fac No.15582509
>>15574006
>The reason being that instead of flat samey textures on low-poly models like most of that generation the warping creates subtle differences in the way the same texture looks depending on the angle it is being displayed at. This made 3D environments on the PS1 look like absolute dog shit 20 years later when we've realized that the inconsistency in perspective makes everything look like it's occurring in the mind of a schizophrenic.
3e0d13 No.15582524
>>15582490
Conkers had the same issue for sure. I was watching a dev lets play where he mentioned the Japanese code comments, but also mentioned the required expansion. I also remember one dude was jacking himself off to how good their games use to be and how shit modern games are, then dropped yooka-laylee
555fb3 No.15582611
>>15582524
I recall he was actually making fun of the DK64 guys for needing it, saying that their dev team was better than the DK64 dev team. Also, pic related, Conker never needed the expansion cart.
3e0d13 No.15582650
>>15582611
Shit. Somehow I was thinking of the special 64 MiB n64 cartridge.
bcf5c0 No.15582875
>>15582220
Why are you defending not actually reading a post before you reply to it?
>>15582509
>we've
>I speak for /v/
You do not belong.
2785cc No.15582884
>>15574006
>aesthetic
Kill everyone who uses this word in order to try and sound smart.
bfe749 No.15582952
>>15582884
I support your endeavor.
3e0d13 No.15582989
>>15582884
>>15582952
No one says this to sound smart. They say it, because you fags shit your pants at the word comfy. Not realizing you'll shit your pants no matter what anyone says.
bfe749 No.15583057
>>15582989
You do it because you're a nigger, you don't need excuses.
bcf5c0 No.15583065
>>15583057
>everyone is dumb but me
1bf942 No.15583080
>>15582884
>ug og liek shiny shapes
>make thinkan nuts run fast
t. the berrypicker who was formerly known as (You)
bfe749 No.15583095
>>15583065
Saying and partaking in contrary retarded shit with the excuse of just doing it just to piss people off is nigger-tier behavior, it means you have a stick up your ass.
3e0d13 No.15583138
>>15583057
I actually don't do it. I still use the word comfy, because seeing retards like you get asshurt about words never fails to make me laugh.
>>15583095
Imagine being this butt-blasted over other peoples word choice
e4b247 No.15583190
I don't know what you NTR connoisseurs are arguing about but the playstation's limitations gave it an identity modern games don't have. I can look are someone playing a ps1 game I've never seen before and immediately know it's a ps1 game and not, say, a Saturn game. I like it and it's cosy as hell.
a78c28 No.15583240
just to make it clear for anyone just joining the thread.
>lack of z buffer -> layering problems
>affine texture mapping -> warped textures
>lost subpixel data -> wobbly vertex effect
>>15574142
Wait so does this mean I can finally use 3D Ripper DX to rip ps1 3d models?
bfe749 No.15583439
>>15583138
Im not though, I'm just pointing out that you're retarded for justifying it with something like 'no u', it makes you sound high off estrogen like a negroid.
3e0d13 No.15583482
>>15583439
>it makes you sound high off estrogen
You're the one PMS'ing m8
bfe749 No.15583726
>>15583482
Looks like I hit a nerve.
3e0d13 No.15583788
>>15583726
>People are laughing at me for being mad, so I'm going to pretend I'm retarded
788e3a No.15584068
>>15578081
Use Mednafen, and if you need a GUI use RetroArch and their version of Mednafen (Beetle). Plugin based emulation is trash.
a4ef87 No.15584297
>>15584068
>plugins are trash
Why though ? it allows people to make alternatives to core features without re-writing the entire emulator.
cdce21 No.15584369
>>15582272
Did you not read where i said the ps1 included Vram you fucking retard?
bfe749 No.15584827
>>15584297
Idiots don't know how to use gpu plugins.
8da16d No.15585522
>>15574120
I want the last exodus's cuckchan fags to go back.
06140a No.15585691
>>15574063
Cute, I'd play her game I'd play her too
06140a No.15585702
>>15585522
>everyone I don't like is 4chan
Can you just joke on tendies already, incel?
t. chad
f3e931 No.15585791
>>15574497
>can you just shut the fuck up and admit you're wrong?
^Gamma male.
a5cc3c No.15585868
>>15584068
Plugins are only trash because Pete retired and the ePSXe developers are niggers.
af6775 No.15585903
>>15585868
Plugins are just another argument why emulation will always be inferior.
f3e931 No.15586115
>>15582611
They were also taking the piss out of the banjo kazooie team with the giant dung beetle fortress instead of an ant hill.
a08528 No.15587585
>>15582130
Texture aliasing and polygonal edge aliasing are both forms of aliasing, where the frequency of samples required to represent a signal is too low, resulting in undesired artifacts. Anti-aliasing refers to various ways of filtering that signal so that the bandwidth is limited to the highest frequency that's possible to represent.
Texture aliasing is caused when the view angle to a surface is oblique, with an increasing number of texels per surface area of a single pixel sample. In the real world the light from the surface over the sample area would converge into an average color, but with only one sample per pixel and very large area per pixel, you run into increasingly discontinuous, random colors varying over slight changes of the position of the camera. Polygonal aliasing is caused by the rasterizer only being able to fill or not fill in a polygon, giving every edge that isn't perfectly vertical or horizontal a rough stair-step pattern. Both become worse the lower the rendering resolution is.
The playstation simply did not have the capability to solve either problem, but the constraint also gave its games a unique look. Perceptually, texture aliasing gives the illusion of crisp, rough surface details with a higher resolution than the texture mapped across it. Polygonal aliasing gives the illusion of rough, jagged edges suggesting more detail on the boundary of objects than there really is. Low bit depth paletted textures and color dithering also served to break up visual continuity.
Texture swimming from affine texture mapping is absolutely a visual detriment though, and actually you don't see much of it at all because developers consciously tried to avoid it. Pick any 3D playstation game, fire it up in an emulator and turn on wireframe mode, and you'll find that floors and walls that seem to just be large flat planes are actually subdivided into small quads. This is because texture swim looks so hideous that developers would rather sacrifice their polygon budget instead.
858325 No.15587600
>>15574006
Personally I can't stand the wobbly look of PlayStation graphics, even back when the games were knew it bothered me quite a bit that's why I always preferred stuff like Resident Evil or Final Fantasy that used pre-rendered backgrounds so the effect was fairly minimal. Nowadays thanks to GTE accuracy hacks and other emulation advancements we can pretty much make PlayStation 1 games look like PC games and give them stability to get rid of the texture warping and polygons perspective issues.
There's really no reason to play these games like this anymore unless you're actually nostalgic for the look like how some people play Game Gear games with a really ugly motion blur filter to simulate it's horrible screen. I don't have that kind of nostalgia I just want my games to look nice even my old games.
a5cc3c No.15587605
>>15585903
Nigger not even every PS1 emulator uses plugins go be gay somewhere else.
3367a5 No.15587745
>>15587585
Nothing about OP was about aliazing in polygons or textures.
a03b79 No.15587896
I've always liked the wobbly playstation graphics myself. It feels like you're actually playing in a living, moving world, rather than something still and cold. Childhood imagination sinergized well with it to fill in the blanks.
65b96f No.15589987
>>15579020
Lol, that's a clever metaphor for circumcision and jews