841e78 No.15494925
Usually, games that are story-heavy and actually allow the player's actions to affect the outcome of the story (from changing one character's dialogue to determine the chosen narrative branch) tend to confront the player with decisions that seem difficult to rationalize one way or the other. Called ethical dilemmas, these problems tend to provide two or more outcomes which have bad results but arguments can be made for why any one of them should be chosen. That being said, some games definitely do this better than others; arguably, the Telltale Walking Dead series (mostly just season one if you ask me) was pretty good about making the player stress over their decisions, and we had/have a Fallout thread that had a ton of interesting discussion about the various factions in New Vegas, but on the other end you've got games like Detroit: Become Human that try to succeed at this same effect but are generally seen as failures for one reason or another. My question is, then, what's a game of this kind that you would recommend to others and why, and what's a game you'd tell others to avoid and why? I've been looking to play more games of this nature recently, regardless of genre, but don't want to get bogged down with games that aren't actually successful with what they're trying to do. Bonus points awarded to games that make you very aware of the consequences of your actions.
841afb No.15494954
Ethics are spooks. If lynching niggers is justified in your heart, you should feel free to do so.
ef9fd4 No.15494990
I never understood the trolley problem. If you value human life at all, the only sensible action is to kill the one to save the many. The obvious conundrum is supposed to be "do you want to be responsible for killing someone", but that seems retarded to me because not pulling the lever and allowing them to die is an action as well. You are either responsible for one death or several.
8d7026 No.15495028
>>15494992
Even daemons understand this.
1d005e No.15495055
>>15494992
This is just further proof that children are innately evil and want to cause chaos.
e9ac97 No.15495079
>>15494954
>t. believes in moral subjectivity
342425 No.15495137
Ever thought about pulling the one person off the track and diverting the train there?
a06c7e No.15495164
>>15494990
>local retard fails to understand other people's thought processes
It's an ethics thought experiment. There is no right answer, just right for you. If you think that you're responsible for other people's (conductor's) actions, then are you responsible if it turns out people you've saved are murderers or that the 1 you killed knew the cure for cancer? If you're responsible when inactive, doesn't that make you responsible for every death ever? Does lack of knowledge of the situation excuse your possible decision? If so, doesn't that mean no matter what you choose you are excused?
1ab619 No.15495194
I think stories are more compelling without offering players the illusion of choice, because I know for a fact that regardless of which choice I make, the story will continue.
e9ac97 No.15495217
>>15495177
so if I can't kill myself or save the people, what happens if I lie down in front of the train?
841e78 No.15495225
>>15495103
This look funny, I'll give it a try. Thanks anon.
>>15495137
The whole point in the thought experiment isn't to find a way out, it's to act with the sole decision before you: pull the lever or don't, that's the only thing you can do. Though I think this thread has derailed a bit thanks to me using images related to the Trolley Problem.
>>15495194
Not every game with choices available has inevitably one conclusion. Like I said, The Walking Dead game does a good job of changing who's alive and who hates you depending on your decisions. The very end of the first season is the same no matter what, sure, but it's a zombie game, so it's basically a given, and with everything in between being different it's still varied enough to be interesting.
1ab619 No.15495230
>>15495225
>>15495213
>doubleposting
1e75d1 No.15495232
>>15495055
Kids are cruel, Jack
841e78 No.15495239
>>15495230
I deleted the duplicate post immediately though
375e64 No.15495248
>>15495217
The train just passes through you.
4bb1ba No.15495279
>>15495225
>The whole point in the thought experiment isn't to find a way out, it's to act with the sole decision before you
the funny thing is that this particular one isn't supposed to be a hard decision. pulling the lever is meant to be obviously correct. it's meant to be contrasted with other scenarios like pushing a fat man in the path of the trolley to stop it, or killing a man and harvesting his organs to save five other people, to show that our moral intuitions are taking much more into account than the factors that utilitarianism says are important.
cec51e No.15495295
>>15495248
did he try fuck a track while several people were tied to it?
841e78 No.15495444
>>15495279
Deontology is an ethical model which specifies that no human can be used as a means to an end. Under such a model, by pulling the lever you're using the one guy's life as a means to the end of saving five others; even though it's a good end, it would be considered unethical by a Deontologist to pull the lever. Of course, the particulars are more complicated than this, so if you're interested it's worth looking into a little bit to understand both sides better.
4bb1ba No.15495584
>>15495444
>Under such a model, by pulling the lever you're using the one guy's life as a means to the end of saving five others
No, you're not. That is exactly why the fat man version of the hypothetical exists, because the fat man is used as a means–you couldn't stop the trolley without him. In the lever version, the guy tied to the side track plays no role in saving the five. You'd prefer that he wasn't there at all.
ef9fd4 No.15495659
>>15495164
>Does lack of knowledge of the situation excuse your possible decision?
There is no "excuse." You can only act and be expected to act on the knowledge you have available at the time. If it turned out to be the wrong decision, thats a shame, but if you couldn't honestly know otherwise theres no point in brooding over it.
>If you're responsible when inactive, doesn't that make you responsible for every death ever?
When those deaths can be prevented by your immediate actions, yes.
>There is no right answer, just right for you.
Moral relativism is a retarded mentality that leads to nothingness. My belief doesn't need to be validated by an outside source for me to consider it worth following.
edabe3 No.15495778
Fallout New Vegas is the only one that really made me think due to the fact that none of the factions you can side with are ideal and people have very varied opinions on which one is best for the wasteland, with the justification often being about ethics.
64f8f2 No.15495845
What color are the people tied to the tracks? This is important.
6ebaee No.15495902
>>15495845
2 white with 2 niggers on one or 1 jew on the other
6ebaee No.15495907
>>15495902
*3 niggers
polite sage for being retarded
9c0e8e No.15495911
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Required playing.
It's not just a meme wad. It's actually great.
64f8f2 No.15495914
>>15495902
Pull the lever, saving the whites and niggers.
a10e9d No.15495917
>>15495902
Kill the Jew. Treat all 4 to a lunch and make them play whatever multiplayer I damn well please in return for saving their asses.
a10e9d No.15495923
>>15495055
Justifying my fucking hatred.
84ce8e No.15495934
>>15494954
this would be correct but it's still wrong
In your heart doesn't matter because perception is retarded.
Everything in nature holds it's own cource weather your involved or not.
8d7026 No.15495950
>>15495902
Come on that's too easy. How about one kike and four proud whites, or one commie?
346515 No.15496037
>>15495055
>>15495232
And I'm very in touch with my inner child!
346515 No.15496040
>>15495902
Kill the whites and niggers and let the Jew protect me in court.
626f96 No.15496081
>>15495248
You've just created probably the only trolley dilemma I've EVER found worth pondering. Would I sacrifice my dick to save 35 people? Jesus Christ.
This isn't a decision I could just reach in sixty mere seconds, I might need hours to work that shit out. Hell, I might even lay my anguished head on the tracks as well, because FUCK.
2afe43 No.15496098
The Mass Effect games are full of these kind of decisions but ME3's
>lol pick red, blue or green
kinda makes it all pointless
d07cce No.15496104
>>15495055
>oh boo hoo kids are baad
0e9b1c No.15496114
I'm gonna toss out one from an actual video game rather than the trolley meme. Spoilers for Soma, if you're interested in playing that game.
In Soma, it is revealed partway into the story that your character is not the person that you thought you were, but rather a mixture of robotic and organic material imprinted with the uploaded memories of a long-dead human, Simon. Your memories are merely a perfect copy of that human's, but from your character's perspective (Simon2) they seem as real as if they were 'true'. Unsurprisingly, Soma deals quite a bit with the question of "What does it mean to be human?"
Further along, your character is placed in a situation where their body simply isn't capable of continuing on to their objective. They must continue to a deep-sea facility and the construction of the diving suit that makes up their body cannot withstand the pressure. To progress, a supporting character informs you it is necessary to copy yourself over to a construct capable of surviving those depths. Upon being scanned over by that character and "waking up" in the new body (Simon3), you hear Simon2 asking why nothing seems to have changed and if the transfer failed, before being rendered comatose.
As it turns out, by Soma's rules it is not possible to directly transfer a consciousness. You, Simon3, are merely another perfect copy of all of Simon and Simon2's memories, but from your personal perspective it seems as if you've been them all along and simply underwent a pair of consciousness transfers.
The choice that exists is as follows: To simply continue on would mean leaving Simon2 in a situation he cannot possibly escape from. He will be trapped in an underwater facility inhabited by monsters and his last memory before waking up again will be of sitting down for a "memory transfer" before waking up alone and abandoned. Alternatively, you could disconnect his battery before leaving and he will die.
fe4ab9 No.15496172
>>15496114
>He will be trapped in an underwater facility inhabited by monsters and his last memory before waking up again will be of sitting down for a "memory transfer" before waking up alone and abandoned. Alternatively, you could disconnect his battery before leaving and he will die
All philosophical shit aside kill the poor bastard.
9c8f79 No.15496578
>>15496098
The only decent moral quandry in ME was the rachni queen IMO, and that was wasted because it was still colour-coded as to which one was "good" and which one was "bad" and the end result only ended up being "readiness points" which were earned in multiplayer anyways.
What a waste of a franchise. The initial setting of retro-style sci-fi with the suit-designs and synth OST was completely destroyed by the second game.
b9ab61 No.15496599
>>15496098
If the gauntlet and stones can kill half of the galaxy why can't it just double the resources in the galaxy? Also won't overpopulation just become a problem again later? It's not like they stop breeding you have just delayed to problem at that point.
7a2140 No.15496730
>>15495444
That model is retarded. Almsot everything can be seen as a means to an end.
>>15496114
Soma? Copied memories? Shit.
bc8e7a No.15496746
>>15496114
If only such a good story idea wasn't wasted on such a shitty game.
448211 No.15496758
>>15496599
Because the old comicbook Thanos want to impress death instead they changed it to make Thanos seem more "moral" and less of a baddie. But in return they made his righteous of killing 50% of the universe retarded.
2b01d1 No.15496776
b9ab61 No.15496787
>>15496776
If that's what they are trying to push then they are doing it wrong because he just looks like a genocidal retard. If he has the power to change anything why doesn't he just fix his fucking home planet? Christ they put like two seconds of thought into that script.
ef20de No.15496899
The only real moral choice possible in video games is to grief or not to grief other people.
Faith of some imaginary pixel people doesn't really test one's morality, especially since you can replay and choose another option the next time.
ef20de No.15496903
>>15496899
*fate
Fuck engrish
2b01d1 No.15496910
>>15496899
we might be imaginary to someone else
522b37 No.15496912
>>15496910
Nothing scarier than the concept that we're all literary devices in a poorly written story.
930af4 No.15497042
>>15496787
Earth's population increases by 1.1% every year. Assuming the same applies to all other planets, this means that it'll take 64 years for the population of every planet to go back to it's pre-Thanos levels. Through his genocide of the universe, Thanos has merely paused the incoming apoclypse by 64 years.
c6542a No.15497059
How many games have characters that will straight up pick the utilitarian option ?
It was one of the reasons I loved the Utawarerumono sequels with the mc Calling down an orbital strike genociding a good chunk of the country he just reconquered and bringing about an eternal winter because of the slimes escaping that would have killed everyone
Not really a "choice" since its a VN, albeit one with a good chunk of gameplay
Slightly off-topic but so few games have meaningful player controlled choices anyway.
5e6d0f No.15497132
>>15495248
Save my dick of course.
If I save those fuckers all I can hope for is a cheap, worthless thank you wile I endure the agony of a no dick for the rest of my life.
Fuck them, plus I can steal their wallets after they die :D
64292f No.15497139
>>15497132
What's the point of having a dick, if it's stuck in the track? At least getting your dick crushed would allow you to continue on with your life.
000000 No.15497141
>>15496098
Not really accurate, but kek nonetheless.
5786b2 No.15497146
>>15497139
I can still move my hips back and forth to masturbate. Without dick I cannot masturbate.
b26ed6 No.15497203
2nd picture, but because God says so.
823a6f No.15497878
>>15495902
let the train kill the nigs and whites, then bash the jews head in with a rock while its tied down
7ecaf2 No.15497891
>>15497146
>Without dick I cannot masturbate.
You have an ass don't you?
7737b1 No.15497902
>>15496578
Anybody who killed the Queen should tie themselves to a track tbh
e9ac97 No.15497941
>>15496599
because the writers are talentless hacks
3d67cc No.15498067
>>15494990
Inaction is actually not an action. You are not a murderer if you refuse to risk ypur own well being to say, save someone drowning. Else are arguing that anyone tgat survived a school shooting is implictly responsible because they didn't try to stop the shooter?
0ebb46 No.15498068
>>15497991
>what is protestant massage
3d67cc No.15498098
>>15496599
This is what happens when you can't make a villain that's straight up evil. "Oh so tragic so sad" can be done right but shouldn't be done always.
a10e9d No.15498120
>>15497132
I just realized this. Losing my dick won't suddenly turn me into a cute, big titted 2D lesbian with no remote problem being a girl.
Also, there's guarnateed to be retarded cucks, moralfaggots about sexy anime teenagers and tumblr. It can't be helped.
be992c No.15498126
The problems with ethical dilemmas in games always boil down to one of two things:
>consequences are obviously biased towards one decision which makes it an easy choice from player perspective
>consequences are bizarre or a mismatch with expectations and the player didn't know about them, making them feel cheated
This can manifest in an infinite number of ways. One of the best examples is Knights of the Old Republic. In KotOR the "dark side" was hilariously tame and to make matters worse, you got dark side or light side points as a direct result of your dialogue options. Not giving money to a beggar resulted in dark side points on the first planet. Another quest involved breaking a guy out of prison and you have to use the right switch; the wrong one kills him. You get dark side points for killing him even if it was an accident.
You always have to back ethical decisions in games with meaningful consequences, and they have to be in game terms. A change in a story event is almost meaningless if it only manifests in a cutscene. Likewise it's also totally lost on the player if the consequences don't match the action.
5786b2 No.15498128
000000 No.15498143
>>15498126
Also there needs to be more depth to it than "good boy points".
I can steal a thousand carrots, that should not make me worse than a murdered simply because stealing is -1 GBP and killing is -100 GBP (looking at you New Vegas).
2554dc No.15498202
Never understood the whole trolley problem. It's obvious that you kill the 1 person unless you are aware that he is more important than the others.
If they are all equally worthless then kill 1 and save the others. More lives saved equals more families which equals higher population which is good. You'd have to be a legit retard to be in a dilemma about something that simple.
67ad0b No.15498268
>>15498068
It's when kikes convince Christians that God doesn't want kikes smitten.
542089 No.15498279
>>15498068
>a protestant massage
8b13d4 No.15498291
>>15498202
It is obvious that you do not understand the original trolley problem.
The original trolley problem asks the question wether or not it would be right to load your consciousness with the fact you your conscious decision directly caused the death of a man.
If you don't act, can you live with the knowledge that your conscious inaction caused the death of 5 men.
It asks the question of weather or not you can live with watching the world burn around you, or are willing to accept the losses to prevent such immense suffering.
a8641e No.15498309
>>15495055
Kids are inherently evil but when presented with two sock puppets - one "good" and one "bad", they choose the good puppet.
How beautifully egoistical and simple, isn't it?
a8641e No.15498325
>>15498291
>>15498202
The answer is not to act.
It is not you who's responsible for their deaths. It's the trolley operator's.
There's no difference in the amount of people killed.
6e76ee No.15498328
>>15498309
They also choose the stronger and more confident one. If only the school system didn't push certain agendas…
a8641e No.15498332
>>15498328
They also choose the tallest.
Mankind is just as animal as any other species after all.
2554dc No.15498334
>>15498291
I know, which is why I still don't understand it. I cannot even comprehend how weak-minded a person must be to have trouble with killing the 1 dude for the sake of others.
>>15498325
>The answer is not to act
Imagine being this retarded
d6a9b1 No.15498365
>>15496114
That seems like an easy decision to make, because you're deciding the fate of "yourself". You have all the memories and personality of Simon2, thus you know what "he" would have wanted. You know if he'd rather have someone pull the plug, or leave him to die. I think the toughest moral questions are those where the "right" decision is unknowable.
Still, it's an interesting situation.
a8641e No.15498386
>>15498334
I didn't tie anyone to the track and I'm not driving the trolley.
If you have to kill someone - if you have to - is it somehow better to do it clean with a bullet through the head? Is it somehow worse to chop them up with an axe?
And what if you have to kill ten, or a hundred, or a thousand?
What if in doing it, you save a thousand or you spare ten?
What if you save yourself?
What is the measure of a man, or of his murder? Do you know? By what insane calculus can we answer questions like these? Should we even try?
The answer is no. If all your options involve someone dying, there's no point in choosing who. You can't save everyone, so why try to choose at all?
15c974 No.15498398
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
look into zero time dilemma
whole game is about determinism, luck, probability, and dilemmas
the previous game Virtue's Last Reward is also built almost entirely on the prisoner's dilemma (which is much better than the retarded trolley problem)
2554dc No.15498403
>>15498386
Because the less that die the better for your race you fucking soylent retard. Unless the people in the tracks were niggers then the only sane and correct action is to kill the 1 guy.
a8641e No.15498426
>>15498403
Unless it's someone you care for, it doesn't matter if one person die, or if five people die, because someone will die anyhow. Unless you're willing to reduce the value to human life to a simple number.
But sure, blame yourself over something that's beyond your control like the faggot you are. You stupid fucking crybabies start thinking too much about morality in a scenario that doesn't permit morality like you're in a fucking anime.
eca40e No.15498431
>>15498403
>he thinks he has a race
hehheheh
2e449d No.15498455
>>15498202
>Committing manslaughter and risking 15 years of prison time just to save 5 normalfags who'll probably scold you for making the wrong decision
>Not just walking away and feigning ignorance if anyone asks why you didn't do anything
Lmao retard
2554dc No.15498456
>>15498426
It does matter unless you're an apathetic shithead. Human life is nothing more than numbers, and by the numbers it makes sense to kill 1 dude to save 5 others. If these 5 people however do not belong in your race then you should kill them and save the 1 guy.
To do nothing is apathy, and apathy kills nations
2554dc No.15498463
>>15498455
The entire population would riot like mad if the court ever labeled you as a murderer, retard
01a4ec No.15498469
>>15498431
who could be behind this post. who indeed.
2e449d No.15498470
>>15498386
>By what insane calculus can we answer questions like these?
1 man < 2 men.
Done.
2e449d No.15498475
>>15498463
Bullshit, that would never happen.
2554dc No.15498487
>>15498475
Unless you live in China or some other 3rd world shithole then yes, it would happen. You would be labeled as a hero who had to make a tough choice in a few seconds in order to save as many as he could
a8641e No.15498490
>>15498456
>race
See how this scenario starts actually mattering the moment you add a valid variable of who you want to save, so you can make a choice?
>To do nothing is apathy
There's no fucking apathy in realizing someone will die regardless of what choice you make, you dumb fucking retard. What if you have to kill the 5 people Hitler cares about the most in order to save him?
2e449d No.15498503
>>15498487
>You would be labeled as a hero who had to make a tough choice in a few seconds in order to save as many as he could
Imagine actually believing this
a8641e No.15498506
>>15498470
Do you know if that one man is worth 2 men? There's more factors than you can think of in the Trolley template, way too many to result in a choice you'll definitely agree on, and it all goes back to my initial point.
2554dc No.15498509
>>15498490
>What if you have to kill the 5 people Hitler cares about the most in order to save him?
I save Hitler. No matter what he may think of me after that it would be the logical choice.
a8641e No.15498524
>>15498509
What if he finds himself incapable of leading effectively after witnessing the deaths of his closest relationships/most trusted officials? You risk having him fail again.
2e449d No.15498544
>>15498506
If I'm not told any of those factors, then it doesn't matter. A larger group of people is statistically more likely to hold an important person.
2554dc No.15498546
>>15498524
What if a meteor lands on us and we all die :(
a8641e No.15498564
>>15498544
>then it doesn't matter
Which is my point regarding guilt over catch-22s such as this one.
>A larger group of people is statistically more likely to hold an important person.
You're adding variables to it again.
>>15498546
That would be preferable tbh
6ae26a No.15498623
>>15498067
>You are not a murderer if you refuse to risk ypur own well being to say, save someone drowning.
Inaction when you don't even have to risk your life is a crime in Germany. Unterlassene Hilfeleistung it's called.
>>15494990
This unless the others are less valuable for any reason (niggers) than the one person or if the one person is valuable to you personally.
f2ac57 No.15498724
>>15498546
O'Neill cylinders when?
2e449d No.15498750
>>15498564
Maybe you misunderstood. When I said "it doesn't matter", I mean the unknown variables don't factor into my decision to save the 5 over 1. I don't know anything about any of the people, and thus they are all of equivalent value. Thus, 5 is better than 1.
9a0d9d No.15498874
c1fff5 No.15498968
>>15498398
and then the ending ruins it
c28f37 No.15498971
>>15494992
..
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beeb1d No.15499044
>>15497139
What's the point of having a life, if you have no dick?
d07cce No.15499112
>>15497132
> :D
you can just fuck off.
6b8bd0 No.15499152
>>15498202
There is an old, rackety train move towards a group of five people tied to a track. You stand on a walkway above the track, with the train in front of you and the men behind you. There is an incredibly fat man stading right next to you, and you are confident that his bulk would be enough to stop the old train in its tracks. Do you push the fat man to his death?
6b8bd0 No.15499168
2b01d1 No.15499191
>>15499168
maybe in a cosmic sort of way. im saying you could go play video games.
b6c065 No.15499210
>>15499152
I push the fat man on the first train car, killing the train driver using the sheer weight of a landwhale and avenging six men that died by his hand.
375e64 No.15499215
>>15499191
How would you play videogames without a dick?
0451d4 No.15499229
>>15499215
You dont need to lewd the vidya.
beeb1d No.15499232
>>15499191
>you could go play video games.
disgusting.
7290b7 No.15499240
>shoot yourself or shoot your mom
>shoot your sibling or shoot your mom
>shoot your mom or your dad
>shoot a president that has lead your land to prosperity or shoot you mom
>shoot Ceaser or shoot Benny
>shoot Monolith or shoot Freedom
>shoot your dad or shoot Xana
2b01d1 No.15499244
c7ef9e No.15499253
>>15496172
Queen cannot guarantee that all her offspring will be peaceful even if she was telling the truth. If they went bad once they could do it again. As an officer in the military it is literally your job to do distasteful things to protect earth (as a spectre it is your responsibility to protect galactic stability) Cut and dry imo. They arent worth the risk of a single human life. Purge the xeno scum.
c7ef9e No.15499268
049688 No.15499329
>>15498332
>Mankind is just as animal as any other species after all
nice meme, used only by degenerates to justify their retarded actions.
4bb1ba No.15499384
>>15498202
The trolley problem was not intended to be considered as a single isolated scenario. The point is to compare with other scenarios (the fat man, the organ harvester) that are the same in the ways that consequentialists say are important, but generate different intuitions in most people. The consequentialist then has to either say people's intuitions are wrong, find a way in which the other scenarios actually do lead to different consequences, or stop being a consequentialist.
d76be5 No.15499405
>TWD
>hard choices
KEK
Here's how it was
>The nice good strong guy option
>the silent option
>the douchebag option that is rarely ever reasonable
>the super nice but overly coddling and possibly weak option
It was like that for the majority of the game
9835d8 No.15499455
a8641e No.15499537
>>15499329
Man is a rational consciousness trapped in a flesh prison. I didn't say it's okay to be degenerate, only that instincts drive us like any other animal.
b9355b No.15499587
>>15494992
This kid has the right idea.
579834 No.15499632
>>15495137
Let the train crush the 5 and then pick up a rock to brain the other.
Problem solved.
>>15498456
>[Swearword]head
7b4819 No.15499718
>>15498398
why don't you look behind the bar? :^)
8b81ac No.15499770
>>15495177
>Push the lever to the right
>Komm susser tod starts playing
dab884 No.15499778
>>15494992
Not posting the best version
8b81ac No.15499780
>>15495248
You are forced into a situation in which saving those people would bring pernament bodily harm to you. As you are not responsible for the situation, you do not have a duty of changing it and bringing harm upon yourself.
That said, doing that would be a heroic and courageous thing to do, definitely worthy of respect. But no one can blame you for deciding not to do that.
b3d0e1 No.15499814
>>15495248
I don't owe them anything, I wouldn't even sacrifice my pinky.
56a57f No.15499822
>>15499786
underrated post
e8d8da No.15499836
None of you are thinking properly in regards to the trolley problem.
Regardless of who you save the man in the train still forced you to kill them.
The only proper course of action would be to hunt them down after sharpening the lever ripping it from the ground and turning it into a sword and find the maniac who did this to you and those people. When you find him stab him in the spine so he can't run and is paralyzed then put his head on the train tracks and drive the trolley into him, finally avenging the people he forced you to kill. It's the only honorable thing to do.
b8649f No.15499892
>>15499822
Too bad Zero Time Dilemma apparently sucked.
I never played it.
346515 No.15499920
>>15499875
Kill video games.
We never play them or like them anyway.
b2058b No.15499926
the solution to the trolley problem is to throttle the lever back and forth rapidly and without paying attention to where it lands, then fling yourself infront of the tracks as well to end the dance
ef285c No.15499932
The only ethical dilemma in video games is choosing which one to play.
346515 No.15499934
>>15496114
Soma had so much good story, art, and environment. Too bad it didn't have any game attached to it.
887f4e No.15499979
If i do not know those persons, i dont give a fuck, let them die.
If i know one of them is someone i found well or important to me, i save them.
I Dont give a fuck about other human lives that dont meter to me. Meme feelings and morals are for the pleb.
4e66d6 No.15499985
File: abe0ec0ce7a8796⋯.mp4 (Spoiler Image, 158.46 KB, 638x360, 319:180, stealthily passing the win….mp4)
>>15496114
It is never adequately explained why Simon was used as the basis for AI technology, the dude's retarded for fucks sakes. He can't even remember what was told to him just a couple hours ago properly.
a34e67 No.15500003
Nuke your son or kill Boston
fd41c4 No.15500009
>>15499979
You sound like an asshole.
375e64 No.15500043
Oh shit who got >>15500000
e5e756 No.15500057
>>15496578
Except the first game was also garbage.
505134 No.15500069
>>15494925
Trust an old modder, all the talk about moral choices is bullshit. It doesn't matter whether you present gray area choices, or clearly cut good and evil choices.
The player will always take the good route, on the first go. Because gamers are moral men. You can try and bribe them, this will make them salty and give it a go on a second playthrough, but first they will always follow their good conscience.
375e64 No.15500091
>>15500069
In all honesty that's just because the in 99% devs of times give batter rewards for following the good path.
368801 No.15500100
>>15494925
>The trolley isn't a spook
3/10
505134 No.15500101
>>15500091
We tried bribing players with rewards for the neutral and evil route: they would still laser target the good one. It was an eye opening experience.
4eeb19 No.15500106
>>15500003
This is actually a more accurate description of FO4's ending than the fake spoilers from the Boston Salt Party.
375e64 No.15500120
>>15500101
Weird did you absolutely made sure that the evil path is ore rewarding?
dd0347 No.15500124
>>15495177
What's wrong with All-Star?
375e64 No.15500132
>>15500120
And that there won't be drastic consequences for not following the good path?
32b715 No.15500140
>>15495248
Depends on the people who are trapped.
c4e26f No.15500146
>>15500101
You sure you didn't fuck up the reward? In most all games being evil gets you more useless cash but being a good faggot gets better items/more quests/xp.
dd0347 No.15500207
>>15499985
He was just the first person to be used in the tech. His consciousness was a legacy copy
1e0f7d No.15500292
>>15500101
From what I've played, everyone always front-loads the costs of evil decisions, even though that's rarely how it works out in real life. Evil in reality is just 99% incompetence and short sightedness at the beginning. It becomes true evil when someone is trying to justify the bad decisions they, or people under their command, made.
An example could be made from the Trolly Problem, with a twist.
>1000 hours in MS Paint
fe9528 No.15500743
>>15500120
>>15500101
>>15500132
The good path needs to necessarily be less convenient and actively more annoying, punishing you. If it's good, it needs to be good "in and of itself" with less reward. What would the game become if every player chose every good option? Almost unplayable. Every evil option? Almost unplayable. forcing them to compromise their own values at times would be the most interesting.
17b934 No.15500899
>>15500132
>>15500743
This, but even further. Basically everyone makes due with less than they would if they were unscrupulous in real life, what really would test their moral fiber would be situations that were either
a) Very punishing to crippling vs doing the right thing (i.e. losing irreplaceable resources or party members, and receiving only a paltry thanks from the innocent peasants you saved)
b) Clear cut good in the short run but bad in the long run (e.g. letting in the poor desperate peasants to your convoy, only to leave everyone shortly starving).
The banner saga 1 did a few of these somewhat well, but the devs bitched out in the end, since in the long run doing the "right" thing is always more rewarding once you reach the third game. This was also confounded by the fact that most of the situations in that game were basically ambiguous.
1e0f7d No.15500967
>>15500899
That's not exactly evil. If you give away all your resources when you're trying to save the world or something, you'd just be stupid. There are plenty of games that have punishments for taking on too heavy of a burden like what you described, but it's not considered an evil choice in most of them.
fc3374 No.15502225
>>15494954
fuckin a, Stirner on /v/
we have reached peak fullchan.
85f040 No.15502233
>>15499892
It was better than most of shit that came out in the last years but it was a bad Zero Escape.
b068de No.15502281
>>15495248
Wait a minute, I need some backstory here. How did I get my dick stuck in the train tracks?
8b13d4 No.15502302
>>15498386
This brings up an interesting questio:
WHY would you want to know the answer is advance?
In the end it all comes down to your own decision in the situation, and if you can live your life with them afterwards. Saying that you know the proper answer to a question of life and death beforehand sounds more like what a psychopath would say.
fdea9d No.15502359
f3ab33 No.15502365
>>15502225
>>>/leftypol/
Eternal reminder that Stirner let his wife fuck another man because 'lel nothing matters', kept her, and commie authors praise him for it.
fdea9d No.15502368
>>15502365
For the motherland!
fdea9d No.15502374
>>15502281
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem
Obviously, you should always try to have sex with anything that moves.
8b13d4 No.15502379
>>15502374
TRACKS DON'T MOVE, FAGGOT
fdea9d No.15502381
>>15502379
Why are there tracks? Because there is movement. Without movement there could be no tracks.
8b13d4 No.15502382
>>15502381
But then I would be trying to fuck the moving trolley, and not the tracks!
Why the fuck is my dick stuck in the tracks?
fdea9d No.15502387
>>15502382
You desire intimacy with the trolley.
8b13d4 No.15502564
>>15502387
The trolly I can understand.
BUT WHY IS MY COCK STUCK ON TOP OF THE FUCKING TRACKS YOU PIECE OF FILTH?
000000 No.15502586
>>15500967
>but it's not considered an evil choice in most of them
I don't really care about the game wagging a finger at me and incresing/decreasing my good boy points, I care about having to make tough choices in a good story and see the results.
Taking spec ops the line for example, I want less shit like the mortar level and more situations like the angry crowd.>>15500967
d5a2e7 No.15502652
>>15498398
Thanks anon, downloading them now.
>>15499240
>Shoot monolith
>>15500091
I disagree, I always try to stand by moral principles, sticking up for the "little guy" unless they're only the little guy because they abused their power, in which case the only real option is to either establish a new status quo or maintain the current one.
>>15502564
Masochism and a desire to be a QT3.14
53b0d7 No.15502752
I thought LISA: The Painful did the dilemma rather well: Do you let a gang kidnap Terry Hintz, or lose all your items?
To get past a local gang, who do you sacrifice for Russian Roulette?
Do you let Buzzo chop off your arm, or kill a party member?
Do you let Buzzo chop off your arm, again, or chop off the nipple of your adopted daughter, presumably the last female alive? You get the nipple as an item, a reminder of your choice
Terry Hintz, though he is weak and annoying, is a good guy at heart, unlike just about every other person in the game.
661c1e No.15502798
>>15494925
But what if the train is going so fast that pulling the lever does nothing, so the train jumps the tracks and just blows on through the switch?
38e041 No.15502828
>>15502798
>so the train jumps the tracks
Doesn't that just kill everyone on the trolley?
ab5c29 No.15502864
>>15494925
I'm usually not a fan of ethical dilemmas in narrative games since they are usually one-trick ponies that simply make you feel like your choices matter. Another gripe I have with these types of games is that they overuse quick time events. These quick time events are stupidly easy to do and seem to take away the pressure that the game wants you to feel. I have not played Zero Dilemma but I heard that it is an improvement of this game type since it is more than just spamming QTEs.
340b31 No.15503097
>>15494954
Self-imposed rules/laws aren't spooks as long as you recognize them as such and make them your property.
fe9528 No.15503251
>>15494954
>>15503097
Is there already a good joke for conflating spook and nigger?
>>15502864
>pic
Best one I've seen so far.
f88703 No.15503335
>>15494954
but anon, it's objectively ethical to lynch niggers
53b0d7 No.15503417
>>15503251
Spook is already old slang for nigger.
9835d8 No.15503593
>>15502864
The trolley won't fit under that bridge anyway, so maybe it will stop it if you push the fat guy. Or maybe the bridge will stop the trolley anyway, and the 5 people will wonder why you pushed a fat guy off a bridge.
9835d8 No.15503676
>>15503650
You may as well ask if someone would prefer a nice meal or getting shot in the face, anon.
a3405b No.15503706
>>15503650
Of course you go for the jews. Lena Dunham is so fat the trolley would just bounce off..
c04dc7 No.15503744
>>15503650
The answer is pretty obvious.
38e041 No.15503809
>>15503757
It's probably illegal to pull it.
542089 No.15503811
>>15503809
Fuck the laws. I want to wave at the people and God dammit I will.
a3405b No.15503818
>>15503757
What if someone in there wants to shank me for some reason? Fuck no, I'll wave at the people from a safe distance.
9835d8 No.15503831
>>15503818
>drive-by trolley shanking
That's bad news anon, stay safe out there.
86729c No.15503839
>>15502564
>he's never seen sexy trolley tracks.
e9ac97 No.15503858
>>15503757
you'd make them take longer to reach their destination if you pull the lever
2e449d No.15503951
>>15502564
The true way to fuck a trolley is to first become one with the tracks. However, you got stuck.
cdc51b No.15503960
>>15503831
One trolley is filled with rabid negroes carrying razor sharp knives. The other trolley is carrying gay men with HIV positive needles.
01eb44 No.15503974
I'm surprised no one's mentioned last year's Prey. The entire game is intentionally designed to be a trolley problem, where the only wrong answer is fleeing the problem.
6b8bd0 No.15503983
>>15503974
>impying anyone played it
01eb44 No.15504023
>>15503983
Good point, maybe if their E3 presentation for Mooncrash wasn't so terrible it was almost sad to watch, more people would've at least gotten mildly interested in it.
9835d8 No.15504215
>>15503960
Pull the lever that makes the trollies crash into one another.
9835d8 No.15504221
>>15503974
>>15504023
Is it worth playing? I might check it out.
01eb44 No.15504366
>>15504221
There's a near unreasonable amount of gay shit in it considering it's in an alternate future where JFK wasn't assassinated, but it's pretty neat getting to follow the breadcrumbs of people's lives shortly before getting massacred by aliens. My first playthrough was about 20 hours, plus another 12 for Mooncrash. If you enjoy exploration and improvising solutions to various problems (like building paths with the gloo cannon or using the nerf gun to get around enemies) then it's worth a pirate at least, since Bethesda slapped denuvo on it.
fc3374 No.15504959
I take the Stalin route, 1 death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
bb622a No.15505179
>>15494992
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!
82a782 No.15505652
>>15495248
>decide to keep my dick
>continue fucking the track as the train plows towards them
>climax as they scream their last breath
93bb9b No.15505710
>>15500663
>the one about aleph null and aleph one persons
Obviously you let the train hit the aleph null persons. Aleph one is a larger infinity than aleph null, so it’s fewer people killed. Also, it doesn’t matter how fast the train is going because it’s INFINITE BY DEFINITION. It can never and will never finish killing them all.
c029cc No.15505719
>>15496912
I'd find that more comforting than reality seriously being this fucking stupid entirely on its own.
a40f31 No.15505753
>>15502379
They do at the switch.
6697c8 No.15505831
>>15503744
>>15503747
These are the only acceptable answers.
Nearly all small commuter trolleys feature double bogies, meaning that if you switched the lever fast enough, you could multi-track drift to kill all those faggots.
2a46b1 No.15505864
>>15496599
Because that still doesn't solve the overpopulation issue. So he'd either have to keep doubling resources or kill off have the universe over and over again. Not to mention making that much resources would probably too much for him and the stones to do since simply killing half of all life already fucked up his gauntless and leaving him with a limp. The better option would probably be to set a birth control thing so that whenever a population gets to a certain threshold then people can't make babies or it reduces the chance of pregnancy by a large margin.
cb9089 No.15506014
>>15505710
But if, as you say, the train can never hit all of them because it is infinite, then wouldn't the lower speed kill half as many per unit time, therefore saving more people? The further out ones will die of old age anyways, so you would really only kill half as many by letting the train continue.
1f5035 No.15506378
>>15495103
>That last moral question
I dunno, that other imp has a cute face, so I kind of want to save her - but then again, you're actually destroying three lives by not doing anything (Doom guy, Imp, and their soon-to-be baby - which means allowing a child to die.
So the obvious answer is to save the one with the cute face, because she might fuck me as a reward for saving her life, whereas Doom Guy and Imp will just thank me and then continue fucking each other elsewhere. And if she fucks me, she might get pregnant - so the death of one potential child is canceled out by the creation of another.
I'm gonna have to follow my dick on this one.
1f5035 No.15506385
>>15495217
You live through it, but are horribly mangled and are on life support for the rest of your life - which you don't need, since you can't die, but you're in a vegetative state so you can't tell anybody and the church won't let your family pull the plug so the medical staff will never find out. You'll just be a twisted ball of scarred flesh laying on a cot next to a beeping machine and in constant pain forever.
1f5035 No.15506415
>>15499920
Being a piratefag will do that to you.
A kid that grows up having only a handful of games he bought with his allowance earned by doing chores and neighborhood jobs will love and cherish those games even though they might be shitty. Having free and open access to whatever games you want, handed to you whenever you want them with no effort involved, breeds contempt for those which fail to entertain you or have significant failings, and will be less than shit on your heel.
That which we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly, and all that.
02c190 No.15506432
>>15506415
Except kids get any games they want and pay for them and then pay 10 times the price of admission in microjewaction
f7a52f No.15506557
>>15494925
I find most games always have an obviously best and most ethical option, leaving the dilemma ultimately feeling contrived, and most people will always choose that option because typically the long term rewards are better and there's always an achievement at the end for getting the best ending, kind of defeats the purpose.
For example, recently I played Prey and the game basically just rewards you for being altruistic and good, it's objectively the best route to take and you get the true ending and a fancy shiny achievement. No one in their right mind would be deliberately bad, ignore helping survivors and killing everyone because it just leaves you worse off.
627c61 No.15506888
>>15506415
This is 100% right.
>>15506432
He's talking about the past, not present day.
7a2140 No.15506956
>>15497902
All bugs must die, pussy-ass faggot
7a2140 No.15506961
>>15498126
The thing with "bias" is that not all people have the same moral compass.
The decision you might spend weeks mulling over is clear-cut to me. So the whole "X is the OBVIOUS" right choice is often just a perception. But not always. Something you really have stupid, stupid choices that only retards would take.
d58d9d No.15506976
I hate how these morality games are always good goy simulators.
Choosing to serve your self interests is often the "evil" route,
while serving the interests of others / "the greater good" is considered "justice".
Can't there be ONE morality game where I'm not punished for not helping others and minding my own business?
98459b No.15507236
>>15496098
I am ok with ME3 ending, but I wasn't ever really invested in the series. You either delet Reapers and kill all sentient machines along the way, become space Hitler or space Hitler, or unleash your inner Shepard and bang all ayys in the galaxy. From perspective of time I can think of any number of ways to make the choice more natural, not so sudden (instead of build crucible -> choice, it could be fuck crucible -> defeat Reapers, build crucible -> enslave Reapers or use crucible schematics to upgrade AIs and people -> at some point during the war Reapers realise they're fighting a "good" resolution to their problem and fuck off). Too bad the series went to shitter a that point anyway.
>>15496578
>it was still colour-coded as to which one was "good" and which one was "bad"
I would blame it on the fact that every choice is paragon/renegade/shit option, it really limits the choices and their point in the first place. They're less choices and more tests how good you're at (meta)game.
>>15498143
Karma in FNV should be superfluous, there's already reputation system in place.
>>15500069
The proper way to do moral choices is to favour this group or that group. It's too simple when you have disconnected moral choices, you have to have somebody in the game world you told off when choosing.
375e64 No.15507273
Let's have a video game dilemma for a change.
66d18d No.15507321
e4354c No.15507345
>>15507273
i spend 5 hours wandering around without actually really accomplishing anything.
64abbd No.15507376
>>15503650
The choice should be obvious, in self-defense of course
000000 No.15507379
>>15507273
You should be using at least solid fuel for trains, since the oil wells required to make it literally never run out, the crafting is simple, and the energy per stack is the second highest in the game.
So go to the solar field.
1f9f0c No.15507463
>>15503593
The trolley is about to hit the bridge, which will stop it from hitting five people. You and a fat guy are on it though, and will die if you're standing on it while the trolley hits it. The fat guy is too fat to get off it in time by walking, and the bridge is so high it will break most of your bones if you fall off. Do you push him to save him, possibly costing you too much time to save yourself safely? If you do, do you jump off yourself and break your own bones or just accept your fate?
d6fd5b No.15507476
>>15499587
Actually the tracks are too far apart for the car. It would either come to a stop at the junction when the paths moved farther apart than the wheels, or it would derail if there was enough inertia (probably not).
6b8bd0 No.15507505
>>15506557
that's a really odd-looking Reimu
d6fd5b No.15507566
>>15502864
This one always bugged me (the real version where it works).
>fat man has enough inertia to stop the trolley
>you have enough strength to move the fat man's inertia
>therefore you have enough strength to stop the trolley
Not only is this dumb, it also means that you necessarily have a better option of jumping onto the tracks and doing a superman thing.
6b8bd0 No.15507584
>>15507566
anon, the entire setting is just a rephrasing of the original problem, in order to make it more apparent why pulling the lever carries a moral dilemma. Upon first reading, many people understand the problem as "murder five people or murder just one", at which point its obvious they should pull the lever, but that is not the actual situation being presented. The actual dilemma is "Do I murder one person in order to save five, or will I not intervene at all and watch as five people die by events not brought on by my person?" Pushing the fat man is the same as pulling the level moral-wise, but most people would in fact not do that, whereas they would pull the lever.
d6fd5b No.15507675
>>15507584
I violently disagree with the premise that moral dilemmas are separate from context. Especially when reducing them to abstraction reduces options. The biggest moral failure possible is accepting the choice presented by a contrived moral dilemma and neglecting to change the conditions of the test to produce a better outcome.
If there's a third option where nobody dies, but someone would stop you from taking it because reasons, then the moral action is take it anyway and then go out of your way to kill them so they don't get in anyone else's way ever again.
1f9f0c No.15507728
>>15507675
The only moral thing in life is to kill god for creating an unjust world?
b8131d No.15507766
>>15494925
>Telltale Walking Dead series
>Detroit: Become Human
not vidya
6b8bd0 No.15507767
>>15507675
the entire point of the dilemma is that there is no third option.
ea1191 No.15507778
>>15507728
If someone can kill "god" then that so called "god" isn't god.
d6fd5b No.15507812
>>15507728
If there is a "god" who may create more worlds with more suffering then it's morally better to stop them than allow them to continue.
0e9b1c No.15508004
>>15507675
Sir do you have autism?
d5a2e7 No.15508351
>>15507728
This is the premise of Shin Megami Tensei, and the correct answer is yes.
78b8d8 No.15508364
>>15495248
Let the train kill those people. All of them.
ef285c No.15508469
>>15508351
Gnostic bullshit is what ruined SMT
2e449d No.15508764
>>15507778
Just an extremely powerful dude that exists in the 4th dimension and can travel through time and create life and shit.
2e449d No.15508797
>>15503650
What's with the gay filter over the whole image?
fc3374 No.15508862
>>15508469
Gnosticism is fine if you remove jews from it
aef72d No.15508882
>>15499253
THIS. The Rachni were easily corrupted by the Reapers the first time, they'd be fucking hopeless when it's not just some fag like Sovereign but the entire Reaper fleet bearing down on you.
fc3374 No.15508929
>>15503417
black people don't exist in the dark
so therefore spooky niggers.
eca40e No.15508930
>>15508874
Choosing to kill the 5s every single loop is now the correct choice because it provides the most time possible for the survivors to figure out how to avert inevitable overpopulation in a reasonable and humane manner.
1f5035 No.15508949
>>15507778
>If someone can kill "god" then that so called "god" isn't god.
Assume for a second, the perspective of a virtual life form in a simulated universe being run on a computer by a researcher. From the virtual life form's perspective, that researcher is god. He created them. He created everything. He holds absolute and total control over the functions of the universe and can switch it off in an instant. And, even without the properties of omnipotence, he can appear omnipotent due to exploiting save states - running the program forward to see what would happen, then restoring to a previous saved state. He holds absolute power over all of time and space.
Yet, in his space, he suffers from epilepsy. It is possible, if they know the mechanisms to do it, for the virtual beings to manipulate the program in such a way that - when god is looking, to use a series of flashing colored patterns to induce a seizure and cause him to bite off his own tongue and bleed to death.
They will then be left with a world free of his meddling, though would they even know - because being outside of their time and perspective - that researcher/god has already been to their future and made impacts on how the program/universe will unfold. He will still appear (to them) to be alive and interacting with the universe - even as his corpse rots.
375e64 No.15509164
>>15507778
But what if the god allowed himself to be killed so his killer could take his place?
466e2a No.15509941
>>15500069
I liked to do the good path on the first try because of the reason you mentioned but there was another one for me too. I quickly realized that the ebin path is often more fun or cathartic and as such much better for your second or third playthrough.
If I go crazy on my first go I will find the good path boring in comparison and my experience will suffer.
At least I thought that way. That was until Kotor 2 where things went different than I expected. As far as gud vs ebin that game had some great moments and lessons even if it sucked at other things.
8226f1 No.15510038
>>15500663
3rd one is easy, you spare the young one by ending his would be miserable life early.
a8641e No.15510306
>>15502302
The answer isn't hidden. Anyone can find this out before pulling the lever. The difference is that finding it out changes the choice from "which way should I send the trolley" to "should I pull the lever at all?"
Things change when realize inevitability is present.
e3720e No.15510972
>>15498623
Germany is a backwards country that won't even exist in a few decades
6ebaee No.15511125
>>15508930
but the second you chose the 5, the loop ends as is shown
what you should do is keep pulling the lever, then, at your desired population size leave it be
661c5a No.15511770
>>15498068
>>15498279
I needed this laugh. Thank you anons. Enjoy this thing I made while kind of drunk on a weekday at 3 in the morning.
>>15500069
I always default to the good guy route in games. If I play through it again, then I'll go evil. I rarely mix the good and evil playthroughs as most games tend to reward based on your dedication to good/evil and punish ya for staying relatively neutral or flip flopping by locking out dialogue choices/rewards behind "You need X amount of good/bad boy points to do this".
7a2140 No.15511802
>>15508949
>can be killed with flashing lights and the poepel know it
THEN HE ISN'T A GOD, YA NITWIT
>>15508874
If it goes on fireer, killing the 1st five is hte correct choice (I don't see that path going forever, only the "save 1" path, which in turn resutls in endless deaths)
1f9f0c No.15512250
>>15511802
A god is just someone who creates a universe, you retard. Omniscience, omnipotence, long white beards, prehensile penises, or anything else you attribute to gods have nothing to do with it.
840131 No.15512275
>>15511770
Thanks, Martin.
f995d9 No.15515666
>>15508930
You dont choose to kill 5 in any loop, 5 die or you can choose to kill someone by crushing them with a train and thus be stuck in an infinite loop of the same scenario as it crops up again and again in your life
or you can choose to not act and escape, and live your life without thinking that its your job to save people that aren't your responsibility
fc3374 No.15515701
>>15502365
Dude I'm from /fascist/
a5d6be No.15518662
>>15497891
but anon, that's fucking gay.
448211 No.15518669
What were the chances of this thread and the trolly problem ended up being in HxH. Makes you think.
8b13d4 No.15518814
>>15507273
The answer is simple: KILL XENOS
98e485 No.15518853
>>15507273
The answer is kill the xenos and build a second solar field on their smoking corpses, negating a future dilemma because now you have enough power to kill the xenos without affecting production.
2b01d1 No.15524812