6371ff No.15437364
Chromatic Aberration, Filmic Grain, Depth of Field, Bloom and Godrays, Motion Blur and all other graphic "technique"s like this used in video games are not used to make games more realistic, they are used almost exclusively to hide mistakes and/or general laziness. They don't improve the visual quality of the game and they certainly don't make the image easier on the eyes, if anything they do the opposite.
I would even go as far as to argue most types of Anti-Aliasing don't improve the visual quality of games either and only exist to hide mistakes.
In other words, this shit is basically the same as shaky camera used in action scenes in movies. It's bullshit.
I'd like to hear a valid, sensible, logical and meaningful argument FOR any of the things I've listed and/or described if such a thing exists. Otherwise, this shit needs to stop entirely in video games and we need to get fucking rid of it.
d78f91 No.15437375
I haven't played a new triple A in so long that I actually forgot that they pull this shit. Thanks for reminding me.
e25ddf No.15437381
>>15437364
Just disable it, faggot.
7c16a6 No.15437384
>>15437364
I love those, blow me. The reason why you don't like it is because they're executed poorly.
3c011f No.15437388
>>15437381
Did you not read his post? The game looks like shit with them and without them. Its a shitty band-aid solution to deep wounds
>>15437384
kek
922cd3 No.15437391
> post proc
I hate all this shit too.
I was playing some PSX-era stuff the other day and was surprised at how good it looked upscaled.
The textures were super clear and sharp, the edges were all well-defined, the lighting was clear and obviously pre-baked but it was convincing enough to be immersive without being the kind of "real" that takes you to the uncanny valley and causes weird graphical glitches, like shadow maps that are too small for the resolution.
There was some z-buffering needed on clipping polygons but that was it. Even without AA it looked fucking good.
6371ff No.15437397
>>15437381
>Just disable it, faggot.
That's not always an option. Even in PC games, major developers are including fewer and fewer graphics options or even worse lumping arbitrary graphic options together and tying them to a low-high slider instead of giving you individual options.
>>15437384
Show me a game that executes Chromatic Aberration WELL and I will literally find you irl and blow you
0e8689 No.15437406
>Chromatic aberration
Should only be used for something fucking up your vision, like getting hit or using a stimulant, and should only last a short time.
>Film grain
Depends on the aesthetic of the game, but shouldn't be used just to be 'cinematic'.
>Depth of field
Should only be used to achieve specific effects, like tilt-shift or extremely narrow focal range during a cut-scene. Should never be used during gameplay.
>Bloom
Too vague. Light sources should bleed over edges naturally but the whole screen shouldn't look like someone added a glowy blur effect like practically every 00s game.
>Godrays
That's a lighting/level design aspect, I wouldn't put it in the same category as the others. Are there games that over-use them?
>Motion blur
Should only be used during low-FPS pre-rendered cutscenes or similar use cases to CA. Shouldn't ever be a regular part of gameplay.
6371ff No.15437425
>>15437406
the latest spinnerguy game has Chromatic Aberration and Filmic Grain ALWAYS ON
eeb2aa No.15437438
922cd3 No.15437453
>>15437406
I agree with most of these uses actually, despite what I said in >>15437391
If it's done right for artistic reasons it can make sense, but usually it's just there. Some godrays do look fucking nice, especially in a forest setting like that section of Shadow of the Colossus, but they can be pre-baked and look just as nice for one hundredth of the cost.
Bloom and chromatic aberation should be used when your eye-sight is fucked up, and depth of field only in cut-scenes where you're actually using the camera like a camera, not when the player is in control and can't focus on a particular object because you're trying to hide low LOD models because you're shit and your game is shit.
And film grain does look good sometimes, especially if it's for a setting or time-period, like in early Resident Evil during the VHS era when you're still using typewriters. That would suit, but it still better be optional.
a260c9 No.15437462
No, use them all and use them all well, op is a faggot and a crybaby
ab6210 No.15437463
>>15437397
Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon. (Based on trailers) Cyberpunk 2077. It works in any game dealing with super bright, heavily contrasted colors (especially against dark backgrounds) because some amount of the effect exists in real life in those situations. It works in 80s/cyberpunk-themed games specifically because that was an aesthetic used in most of the source material.
0e8689 No.15437464
>>15437453
>If it's done right for artistic reasons it can make sense, but usually it's just there. Some godrays do look fucking nice, especially in a forest setting like that section of Shadow of the Colossus, but they can be pre-baked and look just as nice for one hundredth of the cost.
Yeah that's the type I mean. Good use of it should be for directing the player or giving attention to something. If it's just blinding rays of light every time you glance at the sky they're doing it wrong.
43c533 No.15437469
>>15437364
>I would even go as far as to argue most types of Anti-Aliasing don't improve the visual quality of games either and only exist to hide mistakes.
Bitch please, you must be smoking rocks.
0289c0 No.15437504
Subnautica is the world champ imo. Reminder that this was not an April 1st patch, this was the "eye candy" patch they expected to be received positively and wound up having to make a public apology for.
e2e0e5 No.15438308
>shitting on godrays
Nigger what the fuck is wrong with you. You know that these things exist and are very visible with the naked eye, right? What a waste of a thread.
543737 No.15438418
>>15437504
Subnautica's just a clusterfuck in general, isn't it?
922cd3 No.15438846
>>15438308
> godrays are real
> so they must be good
Bloom and HDR are real things too, or at least an attempt to simulate a real effect on the human eye. Doesn't mean we need or want them in vidya, especially when they're so poorly used and often just there to tick a box despite adding nothing and actually subtracting something by being yet more unnecessary calculations.
Lens flare needs to fuck off too, unless it's thematically relevant, like with Samus' visor which would actually get a similar effect.
05665d No.15438866
>>15437364
Godrays are annoying when they shouldn't be there but I don't see a problem if there's smoke or anything that would actually cause godrays IRL.
Also, believe it or not, but the reason film grain (or noise in general) is used is because it works as a form of dithering and eliminates color banding which still plagues videogames to this day.
691173 No.15438874
>>15437364
>i have autism
>reee reeeee
>hear me roar
>>>/reddit/
922cd3 No.15438877
>>15438866
I've seen film grain used this way in a few games recently and it actually did look OK. Tekken 7 did it and it managed to break up the way Unreal renders everything to look plastic and fake.
05665d No.15438881
>>15438877
It's only a problem when it's excessive. Some games have grain that's so subtle it's almost unnoticeable and it still eliminates banding.
45ef16 No.15438882
Motion blur can be great if you want people with <30FPS to enjoy a game. Crysis 1 and 2 had such excellently crafted motion blur that you could fully enjoy the games with 20FPS. It simply felt extremely smooth. I have no idea how they pulled that off because every other game I've played has horrible motion blur.
Anti-aliasing is also a must for 1920x1080 resolution. Vegetation and other thin/angled objects look really ugly at far distances without it. However most AA methods are absolute garbage that do nothing but make the entire image quality look blurry and washed out. FXAA and TAA are the worst ones I've seen, but I'm sure there are more bad ones that I simply don't remember. MSAA is the best method I think when it comes to performance/quality. SSAA is quality-wise the best but realistically you must be a retard to use it since it renders the game at double the resolution. You might as well get a 2K monitor at that point.
Godrays are nice, I don't know why you don't like them. The only way for godrays to look bad is if the devs overuse them and they are low quality.
Depth of field is absolute irredeemable cancer for gameplay purposes. It should be only used for cutscenes.
For bloom I have mixed feelings. Most of the time it is shit and a poor man's alternative to a proper lighting engine, but it can look great if the devs are absolute madmen they can pull it off.
Filmic grain is cancer and shouldn't be used for anything ever. Same goes for Chromatic Aberration.
05665d No.15438889
>>15438882
Chromatic Aberration is cancer and should never be used, but like I said here >>15438866 there's actually a reason why it's used (and in my opinion it can be used properly if very subtle). It's basically a situation where you have to pick your poison: Ugly color banding or grain.
Of course color banding is not always that visible depending on the colors, but it can sometimes be very noticeable.
05665d No.15438892
>>15438889
>there's actually a reason why it's used
Speaking of film grain (I really need to get some sleep)
eb8361 No.15438905
>>15437463
In both of those it has a reason to exist , You have artificial eyes. Human eyes don't do this shit,games could use more optical illusions that fuck with ypur brain ,that would at least make sense
65350b No.15438927
>>15438874
I think you should head over there yourself.
>>15437364
Chromatic Aberration is so fucking and I have to agree with how Anti-Aliasing just taxes the system for no real visual improvement.
bfb6eb No.15438930
>>15438905
Goddamn that second one,time to give it a relisten
66f4aa No.15438953
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15437364
Dunno if cinematics with in-game real-time rendering graphics counts, but DoF is used for artistic effects in certain cutscenes.
In-game, I don't see their use, personally. Dark Souls uses it to hide certain background elements at a distance. It doesn't bother me to remove DoF there but I see their point about hiding those details. Nothing wrong with that.
eb8361 No.15438988
>Motion Blur-Disadvantage that should be used only in racing games ,or maybe if your eyes get hacked or you got hit in the head,If I were to name one good use that would probably be Dying Light which allows you to look back when running and focus the image for a few seconds , the only game where that shit makes any sense
>Film Grain-Depends on preference and games colors , nice learning that it has a reason to exist >>15438866
>Depth of Field-Another disadvantage that makes everything look like shit at range,If there is something nice in the distance I want to look at it ,or spot enemies ,this makes at least some sense because you shouldn't have infinite range of vision
>Bloom-I don't know much about this , after a quick google it looks like some form of overlight that would make any electronic device in the game unreadable ,should only happen when you look directly at a light ,would be usefull for a police game or flashbangs
>Godrays-Looks good in a forest ,should only be used when it has a reason to be there
I agree that it's mostly to hide mistakes or low quality
I have a question about LOD ,what does it mainly relay on? ,I would like to have a game fully loaded and have quality at distance ,for spotting or sniping(some weak games don't load at distance even when you use scopes),There have to be people that can load a game into their 64Gb Ram(disks) with a Titan on board ,can LOD be manually overwritten?
Hopefully with the switch to 4K@60-144 and people caring more about 1080p@144+ we should get some more fitting graphics, Most people have at least 4Core systems and SSD's ,maybe(I doubt it)RTX can kill of some of this artistic trickery(or make it worse)
47604f No.15439031
Chromatic Aberration and film grain can both die in a fucking fire
But motion blur and depth of field do try to simulate how your eyes work. Although I never have motion blur enabled myself, I can see why the option is there.
888e2a No.15439049
>>15438866
For some reason people have never believed me when I told that 24bit monitors don't have enough colors to display smooth gradients, and that I can see the color jumps.
f5ea0b No.15439056
>>15437504
Subnautica just looks like ass in general. Some blur might actually hide its low resolution textures.
65350b No.15439057
>>15439031
>film grain
Works for some games that depend on it for style, such as a Noir game.
47604f No.15439061
>>15438927
>Anti-Aliasing just taxes the system for no real visual improvement.
Are you retarded? The types of AA that does actually improve visuals are the only types of AA that actually tax the system (SSAA or MSAA). The other method is a blur pass and it looks like shit and should never be used (FXAA)
MSAA or SSAA is basically the same thing as running the game on a higher resolution than your monitors native resolution (running the game at 4k on a 1080p monitor). In fact often times you can get the same result by doing that but also with identical performance hit.
4992d8 No.15439062
>>15439031
>simulate how your eyes work
Why would you need artificial depth of field when your eyes are allready aflicted by it? If focus on the center of the screen you wont see as well on the sides. But if you have that piece of shit option enabled and say look at the screen edge you wont see shit because the devs decided you need to have some dof.
Its fucking retarded and you're retarded if you think we need 2x dof's.
47604f No.15439071
>>15439062
>If focus on the center of the screen you wont see as well on the sides.
Our eyes transparently take depth into account and games are displayed on a 2D monitor
888e2a No.15439074
>>15439062
There's no depth of field when you look at a flat plane, i.e. the monitor. The problem with depth of field is that it's based on the game camera rather than your eyes. With eye tracking it could be good.
4f6fa5 No.15439077
>they are used almost exclusively to hide mistakes and/or general laziness
That's not ENTIRELY true. It's partially because AAA are basically just copying Hollywood at this point, but are a little behind the times so are still in the JJ Abrams phase of things. But more to the point, it's because "photorealism" hit a brick wall somewhere around a decade ago, with little to no progress since then outside of pre-rendered things like demos and cutscenes. So it's less to hide "mistakes" and more to hide their embarrassment that they haven't got much closer than Crysis to truly fooling the human eye. They feel they have to add SOMETHING to differentiate this years Cawdooty from last year's.
>>15437504
At least they have an excuse: you're underwater, often in places with particulates and extreme temperature gradients. Of course everything looks like shit: that's reality in those conditions.
61ae04 No.15439092
Halo: Reach is the only game to ever use this "cinematic" shit properly for smooth visuals.
65350b No.15439099
>>15439061
A lot of newer AA tends to be fucking useless, is more of what I'm saying.
b98a22 No.15439152
>>15437364
They're not used as much to hide mistakes as rather to fake realism. Is there a name for this effect, when people watch a lot of films and think that people in real life are “act unnaturally” or something like that? Same shit with the visuals. Instead of simulating reality they try to simulate movies. And since a lot of people are used to Aberration, Grain, DoF and other effects in films and photos, they get mind-tricked into thinking that this game looks realistic.
3249c3 No.15439192
Only japs use it well in horror games. Siren without film grain looks like shit.
8742e9 No.15439202
>>15438866
>that banding
Drives me up the fucking wall that every other game today renders in high bit depth HDR then tone maps to SDR, yet nobody bothers to dither. Fucking anime fansubbers figured this shit out a decade ago.
26bdd3 No.15439206
>>15439152
>they get mind-tricked into thinking that this game looks realistic
You're mistaking retards as people.
d7ec2c No.15439221
>>15437364
When I saw L4D 1 and its film grain I knew Valve was on a downward spiral, I told all my friends then and they just laughed at me and threw things at me.
a98958 No.15439234
4cacb9 No.15439236
>>15439152
I agree. True beauty is learning how to make believable locations.
105fe9 No.15439240
But anon, how else are AAA gayme (((developers))) going to disguise the fact that they've been doing sweet fuck all for the last 20 years?
070d24 No.15439308
>>15437504
Bad:
>Chromatic aberration
>Bloom
>Motion blur
>Colour grading
>Depth of field
Could be okay:
>Lens artefacts (You are wearing a lens after all, but I bet they made it exaggerated as fuck)
Good:
>Ambient Occlusion
>Reflections
>Dithering
But how the fuck did they make it so blurry is what astounds me. Is it mostly the bloom?
070d24 No.15439347
>>15437406
>>15437453
>Should only be used for something fucking up your vision
I disagree, it doesn't make any sense for the human eye to experience serious chromatic aberration. Like if you got hit by something and the screen went sepia tone, would that makes sense? Although sepia tone might be a cool effect for a western game, and at least it'd be something new, unlike chromatic aberration which is overused as fuck, I am so sick of seeing games just slap it onto anything.
>Get hit = chromatic aberration
>Use item = chromatic aberration
>Don't feel good = chromatic aberration
>Dramatic scene = chromatic aberration
If I see it in a game, I just don't even bother pirating these days. It's just lazy.
356ed8 No.15439471
>>15439287
>dat ray tracing
HNGGGGGGGGGG
3890c1 No.15439480
>>15439471
Those are static lightmaps.
eb23d4 No.15439493
>>15439480
>Expecting some retard using marketing terms to know jack shit
6d59b7 No.15440866
>>15439236
>>15439287
man, I really love the old soviet styled atmosphere of Half Life 2. It really does compliment the story and makes you feel that earth is really just some ghetto in the combine empire. Just this dreary rundown shithole that is being held together with duct tape. Really great at creating atmosphere. Without saying anything or even knowing anything about the story of half life, you know whats going on fully in that opening segment in the train station just by looking around.
Its way better than the earlier ideas of this really zany tim burton looking world.
186d9d No.15440887
>>15439457
I just realized it'd make more sense to post these pics instead of screen capping. Should not have drunk that extra beer.
fc1624 No.15440895
I played battlefield 3 for only 30 minutes exactly because of this, that shit was pure aids in that game
e5b587 No.15440921
>>15437463
>trying this hard to get a blowjob on /v/
fc1624 No.15440947
I played battlefield 3 for only 30 minutes exactly because of this, that shit was pure aids in that game
f07167 No.15441024
Godrays are awesome
fuck you
eda217 No.15441057
>>15437364
That image needs eyeliner.
000000 No.15441091
>>15437406
Depth of field can (and should) be used to make fog effects and underwater scenes look less jarring, without it it's hard to fade out details gracefully.
f8920d No.15441281
>>15439031
>But motion blur and depth of field do try to simulate how your eyes work. Although I never have motion blur enabled myself
You have motion blur disabled on your eyes? What other settings to you have them set at?
30dfda No.15441463
>>15440921
I'd rather get a blowjob here on /v/ than on /leftypol/
7d3c9d No.15441657
>>15437364
Motion blur is cancer. Always was, always will be. It is THE characteristic to be used as example to show people about the incompetence of developers.
6d59b7 No.15441692
>>15441463
>getting a BJ from one of the autistic trannies on leftypol
lol just imagine
5c9c1b No.15441709
>>15437364
Wowee what a courageous opinion to have on /v/. Thank you for risking being ostracized and posting this thread anyways. Fuck the haters, you go OP.
61ae04 No.15441734
If your bloom isn't Super Mario 3D World, it's automatically shit.
3d6db3 No.15441803
film grain was a nice touch to a game like mass effect, I thought it made it more like an 80's space opera.
3d8a33 No.15443080
>>15437397
Everspace handled it pretty well.
1b35e1 No.15450483
But dude. I rather have 4k resolution and ultra detailed textures, instead of quality animation, reflections, mirrors, elaborate physic interaction, physic player interaction beyond the level of Half Life 2 tier ragdolls, destructable enviroments, real gore instead of jerking myself off to strapping a c4 to a random NPC and see them fly up straight into the air and their model without even black marks on them come crashing down. NICE BRO, my new shipment of soy just was delivered with an amazon drone. Technology is so AMAZING! YEEAAHHHH!
55f8e6 No.15450487
>they are used almost exclusively to hide mistakes and/or general laziness.
They are used to make shit-ass looking console titles look "better". If there is something wrong in a PC game, the answer is almost always "because consoles".
ae8a88 No.15450524
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15440947
This. when will we get modded, non-(((Origin))) servers with the color filter removed?
6ac638 No.15450547
>>15438418
It's actually a really good game that has bad community management.
eec759 No.15450738
>>15437364
Good it should be in every single game.
0b0856 No.15450839
>>15438866
>color banding
How in the fuck is this shit still a thing?
Every GPU since 2000 can render native 24bit colors, recent ones can render in 30bit or more.
45ef16 No.15450889
>>15450524
This is an abhorrent and fake example.
I know very well that BF3 looks like with the filter removed. The filter does not affect the HUD, but in his video it did. Everything lost all color and became gray. BF3 without the filter looks even more colorful. The faggot simply edited the image with a program rather than actually removing the in-game filter (Which by the way is a different color for each map).
6eec13 No.15450892
>>15450839
jpg compression?
41f7fd No.15451047
>>15437364
The anti-aliasing part is nonsense if you dont use some kind of turbo autismo aa that blurs the entire picture or a 3DS tier resolution.
>Chromatic bs.
never really bothered me, but looks really cheap. Maybe to add some impact to an explosion, but it should fade away almost instantly.
>Bloom
A tiny amount of bloom can give for example a glowing red hot gun barrel at night or an explosion some more visual impact, but the problem is that lazy devs just plaster the entire game with this shit and make every light source bloomy.
>Film grain
Worthless shit.May be used in a cutscene thats supposed to look like an old film.
>DoF
Worthless shit because you would need eye-tracking for it to work properly as im not locking my eyes onto the middle of my screen so it never knows what to blur.
>Motion Blur
Worthless shit, except for rarely used per-object blur on for example the debris parts of an exploding barrel or a really fast rocket flying by.
>Godrays
Only acceptable when there is a clearly visible fog to explain what reflects the light mid-air. Also should be kept to a minimum and out of combat situations.
Moderation is the key but requires more effort than most folks are willing to spend on what should be a barely noticable effects.
All in all, i still turn these effects off for 90% of games because devs dont give a shit about the visual clarity anymore and only optimize the look for screenshots.
daa573 No.15451063
>>15437364
Graphics programmer here, tbh most of these effects are more for screenshots / marketing.
Sometimes there's a plan to simulate a real-world camera but artists don't usually like working with f-stops, apertures, or focal lengths, so it usually ends up as a vague blend of overlapping "camera-ish" effects layered together in an unrealistic way.
Open question, if you guys wanted to draft a list of divisive postprocess effects that you'd like on/off options for i'll see if I can add those for PC in the next project.
65350b No.15451322
daa573 No.15451520
>>15438988
LOD is normally a function of distance from camera. Typically LOD0 is full quality models, LOD1 is reduced quality models, and LOD2+ is billboarded textures or double-digit polygons models.
RAM is rarely a limiting bottleneck for modern games, but if the tree 500m away is using the same number of polygons / shader quality as the tree 10m away then the impact on GPU render time is huge (see crysis 1). Expect 10fps if you somehow forced every asset to use LOD0.
Some games allow you to modify the LOD bias in the command console, which is a modifier to what distance LOD transitions occur at. Otherwise you might be able to force it using nvidia inspector or maybe some DX injection code.
ae8a88 No.15451702
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15450889
I've found a better example.
75a30e No.15451778
I can only think of one game that does bloom right: Blood Money and only because it's used sparingly as SFX. And even then the game disables it if you set the graphics settings to low.
683d40 No.15452112
>>15450839
Shitty texture compression among a dozen other things. But its mainly devs being retarded and thinking broke and artifact laden textures = a good thing.
7ef974 No.15452205
>>15437364
>Chromatic Aberration
Love it
>Filmic Grain
Hate it
>Depth of Field
Love it
>Bloom and Godrays
Love it
>Motion Blur
Love it