/v/ - Video Games

>>15425950

redshell was removed from KSP in 1.4.5, but 6 months of versions had it included and there was no warning or opt out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/8pud8b/psa_red_shell_spyware_holy_potatoes_were_in_space/

this thread has a significant list of games that included it, removed it, pledged to remove it, or still have it.

>>15425950

>https://www.please use archive.is/red-shell-analytics-software-causes-privacy-uproar-over-a-dozen-developers-vow-to-drop-it/

(((PC Gamer))) did an article on it.

https://archive.fo/GGDOW

they provide the nice counterpoint, staying truly neutral on the issue

>Other developers and publishers are standing by it, however, saying the app is (((useful and harmless))).

I kind of just assume this about any pc running windoze games and pcs in general. Unless you are running hardened linux it is compromised.

>>15426102

Yes, we know …you have Autism.

>>15426588

He's not wrong in that if the government really wants to spy on you they can. They have both software and hardware backdoors and can likely send a payload your way.

Point is, most of us are not interesting enough for them to spy on. Hell, considering the sheer amount of traffic on the internet, and even with the use of advanced algorithms and supercomputers, no government agency in the world has the resources to keep track of everyone, let alone most people. Their biggest problem is not a lack of information, but too much of it.

>>15425950

HAHAHA

You people don't know about companies like GameAnalytics?

They collect data (even what you do and where you go in-game, what you buy, when you buy) and create a psychological profile on you to pick the players that spend the most

>>15426601

You realize they don't spy on people directly and individually right? They store your data and have AIs and algorithms do the heavy lifting. What if that algorithm deems you a danger to society? Or if that AI thinks you're not buying enough feminist approved products?

>giving single-player games internet access

What are you, some kind of a clueless windowsfag?

>>15425950

I told ksp to fuck off in the steam forums after giving them a second chance and they rolled out this unit analytics spying shit then I got swarmed by shills, it's pathetic how these people sit there all day and do it for free.

Good luck, I'm behind seven lawyers.

>>15426822

Kinda funny because this means pirates were in the clear if they followed the scene's advice on blocking games from accessing the internet.

I like how they don't even try to give it a inconspicuous name. Imagine someone making spyware called "HEATSEAKER" or "PATRIOT MISSILE".

>>15427036

The scene doesn't have malware. You're thinking of P2P groups and why no one with a brain trusts those releases.

>>15427047

Which scene release have had malware, anon?

>>15427036

>scene release

>malware

>>15427047

>calls others computer illiterate

>>15427057

>codex puts bitcoin miners that communicate with home when you leave your computer idle for some time

They don't

>Same for IGG and FitGirl

Those aren't scene releases.

>>15427061

Not him, but burden of proof is on you. I'd at least like to know when they started doing this. The last scene game I downloaded was Dark Souls 3 back when it came out IIRC

>>15427057

wow i never considered that these piracy people are horrible I'm going to install steam right now and and make sure to upload my id and link my bank account and give them my real phone number so i can do 2 factor auth and make sure I can get back into my account if russian hackers try to get into it and get my id and bank account and real phone number that's been linked with steam

>>15427061

>conflates repackers with scene releases

>downloads malware ridden repackers and claim that they are scene releases

>probably isn't on a single private tracker or knows how to get scene releases directly

No, I am not going to give you invitations CIA and I am not going to let you spread your FUD unchallenged either.

>>15427064

>I'd at least like to know when they started doing this

They never did. The retard doesn't even know the difference between a scene group and a repacker.

>>15427057

I'm not entirely sure you're aware of how fucking meticulous the scene is when it comes to checking their shit. These are the people that invented the idea of release channels, man.

>>15427061

Oh good. You're one of those retards then. Nevermind.

>>15427079

>maybe if I use all formatting i'll fit in better

No, I am still not going to give you a link

>>15427079

>Steam doesn't even require your phone number.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=5434-QEYO-9636

<Players must register a unique phone number to their accounts in order to queue for Ranked matches.

<If a phone number has not yet been added to the Steam account you are using, you will be required to do so prior to adding it to your Dota account.

>>15427079

it also not only requires a phone number it requires a botnet installation on your smartphone to unlock shit on steam.

https://store.steampowered.com/mobile

>Steam now requires the highest level of account security for instant trades and Market sales

>Use a Steam Guard Mobile Authenticator to secure your account and avoid item holds

>>15427106

Nice goalpost shift retard

>>15427106

>you only have to provide your phone number if you want to unlock content, don't worry you can use the stripped down demo version of the software if you don't provide your phone number

You guys would be terrified if you knew how much information devs were taking from you and warehousing via custom events in Unity's telemetry analytics. You can send whatever data from a client you want, it's not just shit like video card driver and screen size.

>>15427112

Then play another game. You said steam requires you to give a phone number. It doesn't, thus you were lying. Why do you double down after being caught shilling? Steam is like one of the only game platforms that doesn't cater to SJWs. I assume it would take an SJW to shit on steam.

>>15427119

Its only a few years before they start serving ads directly through Unity. People will eat it up and defend it too.

>>15427061

I didn't get bitcoin miners from trusted or VIP piratebay users yet.

I think IGG has many uploaders and not all of the downloads are safe. FitGirl just repacks shit and does not insert bitcoin miners.

I bet you download from those fake sites.

Crackers don't release shit on websites. They don't have a website.

You get their shit from VIP uploaders on piratebay you retard.

>>15427121

>if you don't want the botnet than you can just play another game

I'm glad I don't play PC games from this decade, all this spyware and bundled in software causing a crisis every time its made known is really unappealing.

>>15427158

>Remember Hatred

I also remember that they added it back and even more recently decided not to cencor titty games.

Try harder chaim.

>>15427174

>I also remember that they added it back and even more recently decided not to cencor titty games.

It's literally stated in my post:

>but was later brought back with a personal apology from Gabe Newell.

Someone on /tech/ is creating a database of all known software that includes any form of spyware.

https://spyware.neocities.org/

Just email the guy who runs it about this and he'll put up a page for it after corroborating the claim.

>>15427158

>>15427174

It was removed by the head of marketing too. Gaben was literally the only person who out ranked him to overturn his decision too. Not mention that the Steam leaks revealed what a gigantic backstabbing, poisonous atmosphere the work culture at Valve was and the fact that they absorbed that swj studio behind firewatch means Steam is definitely compromsed and it's been compromised for years.

>>15427261

the site has pretty good articles that go into detail about every piece of software but the page has horrendous design maybe i'll get into contact with him to let him know about steam's Valcrypt since there is nothing on the internet about it and it's some serious fucking shit valve is keeping hush hush

>>15427158

Go back to >>>/israel/ lying jew

Judging by the responses, it looks like vols did well in banning that retard.

>>15427307

They banned him the moment he posted proof that scene inserts malware into their cracks. The mod who did this is most likely compromised or has business suppressing that information.

>>15425983

Looks like you've had to much to think. Here, drink this soylent; it'll help ease your paranoia :^)

>>15427292

>but the page has horrendous design

Thats a good thing though

>>15426601

>advanced algorithms and super computers

Maybe you should stick to talking about videogames, which I will generously assume you actually know something about.

>>15427338

I am noticing this "but they are the lesser of evils goy, it isn't THAT bad" lately.

Fuck Valve, newfags won't even remember the shit they have been pulling since the fucking beginning. I just wish "botnet" got the title of "skynet", would make reading about it much more interesting and full circle.

Is there an up to date flat list of games with redshell?

>>15427948

No, but after today I should have one up.

>>15427126

>Crackers don't release shit on websites.

Russians have easily accessible forums where their policy is "download at your own risk, but we'll investigate any reports of bad crack uploads". Of course if you're careless your anus will be spread wide open.

Just want to say that this is a perfectly natural development and consequence of the market.

And the funny thing is, players aren't the targets of victims here, not the biggest ones anyway.

A lot of companies pay a lot of cash for marketing to get their games out there. If nobody talks about it, nobody is gonna play it, right?

At the same time, they also have game designers with specific ideas and templates about how a game should be made and the college degrees to back them up (or so they say).

But companies and dev studios are getting kinda suspicious that maybe marketing doesn't help as much as the marketers claim it does. That maybe endless shilling everywhere doesn't actually sell that many more units and it might not even be cost effective compared to what they pay. If I recall correctly, there was a company paying Google to show up at the top of every search that used a word from a list of 2000 words, said company paying per word. But in the end it was just 20 and every different way to misspell them, and it didn't even increase their traffic that much.

Same thing with Redshell, it's existence can be easily explained. Devs have no way to gather hard data about what people actually find interesting in a videogame or how well designed it really is. They can ask and debate in forums but that will have a lot of subjective opinions and "expert players" diluting the objective criticisms you can find. Redshell solves that, telling the devs exactly what they need to hear.

It's hard data they can cross reference with what the game designers tell them to do and see if they are right or full of shit.

Not actually defending these things to be honest. Every dev should know better than spending a fortune on marketing instead of letting word-of-mouth do the job for you and every dev should communicate with their playerbase, even play with them, to see what works and doesn't work.

But in the end, this isn't because they want to exploit players (primarily at least) but rather because the devs don't want to be exploited by marketing departments and design comitees.

>>15430811

> Devs have no way to gather hard data about what people actually find interesting in a videogame or how well designed it really is.

steam has forums, they just ignore what they don't want to hear and deem it nothing but racist sexist xenophobic mysogonystic trolls.

>>15431160

Like I said, Forums are full of underage kids and absolute retards spouting their "opinions" about things they have no understanding off. It's a lot of white noise and it takes several hours combing thorugh all of that to actually find someone that posts objective accuracte information.

It's also dependant on someone talking about a specific topic for the devs to even see it, which might not actually happen. You might end up having a problem in your game that's making the experience bad for everyone but it's hidden behind something else or it's not very obvious and thus nobody mentions it, while hard data collected with Red Shell or similar programs might give you a better understanding of that.

But again, the fact that they need this information to begin with just shows they don't even play the games they make or make them specifically for sales and want to know what the audience will pay the most for.

I think the reason we often get shitty endings in videogames is because only a small amount of players actually finish them, so it's not really a priority for devs, for instance.

>>15430811

>Devs have no way to gather hard data about what people actually find interesting in a videogame or how well designed it really is

What ever happened to getting everyone together and asking; "Is this game fun, do you get bored playing this?"? These people willingly choose to make video games, they either are or used to be a part of their target demographic.

Reminder that datamining based advertising is shit tier and any marketer worth their shit knows transaction history is far mor important that arbitrary nonconsumer behavior.

-Dev that actually had success with a project.

Oh, and also consumer retention rates are shit tier with paid shi- I MEAN TOP YOUTUBE/TWITCH INFLUENCER PERSONALITIES.

>>15431199

What happened to just asking people what they thought about a certain feature? Oh wait, feedback is only welcomed when it's "omg this game is awesome thx for makeing it are u going to release dlc I hope u are cuz i want to support good companys". Meanwhile any criticism that amounts to "this feature is bad for these reasons and here are three ways you could have improved it" is dismissed and probably banned because "please keep your criticism constructive".

>>15431548

>>15431553

That's the thing. Up until know devs have been fed this idea that marketing is the best shit ever. You can put out a shit game that's just an asset flip and as long as it's marketed in the right places and amounts, it will sell a lot anyway. It's not true actually, but Devs didn't had a way to know this. Until now.

Honestly, the invasion of privacy is terrible but it's almost worth it so marketing roaches lose their jobs.

>>15431413

>>15431576

It's a naive thing to think you can just put questions to the playerbase and get accurate answers to improve your game.

Half of the replies will be trash. Just basic "It's shit" or "It's good" with no fundament. There will also be things like "I didn't liked the music" or "This model is ugly!" which are criticism but you can't do much with them.

And then there's even worse. Players that will blast a certain feature because they personnaly don't like it. Or defend a shit game design because it benefits them in some way and they don't want to play in a different manner.

Players are incredibly biased in their judgement since their entire opinion will come from their subjective experience with the game after all.

And of course, don't forget the ideasguys that will show up, full of ideas to improve and tell you what's wrong when they know jack shit about designing games.

Let's also not forget the long tirade of players protesting about difficulty in some games or defending shit design because they are casual as fuck, and let's not forget how many of those there are. If you're giving them a forum for feedback and basing your game design in that… Oh wait, that's what has happened in the last few years and look where we are.

At least with shitty spyware like Red Shell Devs can tell exactly with what the players had trouble with and why. Where they playing badly or was an area badly designed? Etc.

It's no substitute for competent devs, but it's no wonder something like this showed up. It's a consequence of the playerbase they pander to and their design comitee has to be 100% whatever idea they propose will resonate with as many people as possible.

does shadowverse still have redshell?

>>15431595

>It's a naive thing to think you can just put questions to the playerbase

No, the goddamn devs asking each other, other devs. They should have, at the very least, a basic fucking understanding of games they would consider fun.

>>15431595

This pretty much nails it, if you have ever talked one on one with a dev you know that actually understanding what the players want is a huge part of the gamble and most companies think that marketing will just be the silver bullet to get people interested.

Now from our perspective this is of course turning the whole thing on its head, devs should make games they want to play themselves first and foremost instead of trying to grasp at shadows because it really shows if people had fun playing their own game and thus being able to smooth out some edges or if a game is a simple product.And you don't need spyware on other peoples PCs to find out what you have fun with

>>15431595

>You can put out a shit game that's just an asset flip and as long as it's marketed in the right places and amounts, it will sell a lot anyway. It's not true actually

It seems to me that a good number of games recently use this technique of building up hype during a prolonged and very public development period with little in-game footage of what ends up being an obviously unfinished game with all possible corners cut. They make money at launch thanks to all that hype and twitch retards and their fans then quietly taper of support for the game until it's just another forgotten mediocre game.

>>15431576

>>15432286

>actually understanding what the players want

I feel alone on this but why is "what the players want" so important? The age where developers had little to no contact with, or even knew, the players of their game is often considered to be the golden age of gaming. Sure there was a lot of shit and quite a bit of shovelware (unlike today amirite??) but games weren't cookie-cutter and sterile because there wasn't yet a need to cater to the lowest common denominator. And going by 'what the players want', be it for profit or for quality, by analytics or polling, is just that. Why even play a game, like REALLY play a game and not just pass time with another mario/cod title, if it's exactly what you want and expect it to be? If just conforms to your comfort zone?

>>15432775

>The age where developers had little to no contact with, or even knew, the players of their game is often considered to be the golden age of gaming

Well that's pretty much what I was saying: Gamedevs should, at least regarding the core ideas make the game they want to play and then maybe look at games like it and see if they do something better than what you came up with.

>>15425983

>progressives

>arena shooters

>implying progressives would play a game that's in one of the most demanding genre's, the exact opposite of anti-meritocracy

Considering it's Bethesda, and they do a ton of shady legal shit, I'm inclined to believe you.

>>15433477

>buy and support the small indie devs that make the games you like.

Agreed, but I can't think of an indie team that made a single worthwhile game in recent years. I had fun with the likes of Shantae, shovel knight and hat in time but these are nostalgia bait time passers at best. I think two overlooked factors that effect indie and AAA alike is convention and a lack of limitation.

Back then game design was 'limited' by several factors including a lot of hardware limitations and there weren't many conventions on how to code and design a game. Lack of any limitation is an enemy to art as one frozen pea connoisseur put it and devs were forced to be innovative and find workarounds to technical limitations and they didn't adhere by strict modern conventions (nor pc sensibilities). This gave games character because they were products of their environment independent of consumer expectation and it showed; play any game from the 80s-early 2000s and you will be able to tell immediately which system it's from based on sound and graphics.

Indie games tend to fall into 4 camps now:

wacky nostalgia-bait platformer with the 'random' meme-culture humor (hat in time, shovel knight)

pretentious walking sim

tumblr-style psudoanime visual novels

and outright porn

The whole industry is full of soy anyway too so expect that sewn right in.

>>15427292

How about posting it in the thread? Never heard of this shit and searching didn't help. If you're not a fucking LARPer, which I doubt since you didn't know the site had recurrent threads on /tech/ and the design is great, fuck you

Never trusted Unity games, even singleplayer shit seems to want to call home going by my firewall.