2d6e30 No.15398684
What are the absolute qualities needed for a videogame to be an RPG?
5c0e5f No.15398691
c6c5a2 No.15398694
edffff No.15398699
9b3512 No.15398701
8c06ba No.15398702
da8cfd No.15398707
Character customization and progression.
And autism.
a7743d No.15398712
>>15398684
Evidence from the marketing team that suggests adding the term will increase sales. Also autism.
a21edf No.15398725
Really fuckable girls and oversized weapons.
39150a No.15398726
It's a rather meaningless phrasem it doesn't mean roleplaying in any way. Some of the following:
>Level up system
>Character stats
>Turn based combat
f7830d No.15398733
Class based specialization
e68976 No.15398865
A mechanical abstraction between player skill and character skill, using numerical scores and statistical resolution with random numbers according to fixed rules. Without a strict distinction from player skill, character skill becomes meaningless.
>inb4 muh tabletop, muh rollplaying, muh free will, muh choices and consequences muh narrative story
If it doesn't have firmly fixed rules, it's not a game, just a play. Enjoy your rules-lite Forge magical tea party at the deep end of the GNS triangle, faglord.
>>15398726
>>15398707
>>15398733
Nope, none of those are strictly necessary
31c856 No.15398868
d2a09d No.15398884
Here's a brief history of RPGs:
< Pen and Paper
> Called an RPG because that's actually what you do: roleplay. Much of the game is talking amongst each other and with GM acted NPCs. Uses a system of stats and random dice rolls to calculate combat and action success/failure.
< CRPGs
> Based on the stat and random chance system of pen and paper. Actual rolepaying is entirely absent.
< Roguelike
> A type of game similar to a CRPG but uses a top down view and single controllable player character rather than a party.
< JRPG
> Japanese take on the CRPG. Again, zero actual roleplaying.
< WRPG
> A more faithful adaptation of PnP roleplaying that was allowed by advances in computer hardware. Roleplaying is a main feature that is simplified to complex dialogue choices as convincing dynamic dialogue is not yet a reality.
< TRPG
> A game where the focus is around complex turn based tactics combat. Often features no actual "roleplaying" possibilities but there are exceptions.
< MMORPG
> A watered down version of WRPGs that allows for large number of multiple players in the same game world. Complex dialogue with NPCs is nonexistent in favor of player-voluntary or server enforced "RPing rules" between players themselves
5a1934 No.15398890
>>15398684
cute anime girls with sizable penises that you can make them tuck in while they bend over and tell you 痛いお兄ちゃん！やめて～～～
f6cc27 No.15398929
>>15398684
RPGs are not RPGs
Any game these days that has a character leveling system is labeled an RPG, but this term has become a misnomer as hardly any of these games are actually RPGs.
RPG = Role-playing Game
This has its origins back in the original D&D tabletop game. While it was largely centered around character leveling, it was also the first and only true RPG where you actually played out the role of your character through acting, hence "role-playing game".
New genres of gaming later emerged on gaming systems and computers as early as the Commodore and Amiga that implemented D&D-style leveling, going as far as to mimic attributes like strength, agility, consitution, even use the same 1-18 rating system as well as the 1-20 armor class. However, the aspect of role play was absent from these games as your character's role was hardcoded into the game itself. This surely didn't stop the creators of these games from calling them RPGs even though there was no role play.
Another commonality between RPGs (faux and real) of the past is that they were always set in a medeival environment. However, that changed later when futuristic/cyberpunk games like Deus Ex and System Shock came long with character leveling systems. Neither are set in middle age times nor do they involve actual role play, but, because of the leveling system, they're referred to as RPGs.
If we're going to continue to call these games RPGs then let's just call everything an RPG. When I play Super Mario Brothers, I actually feel like I am playing the role of Mario because, hey, I am. And when I am fragging away in FPS shooters, I feel like I am actually the player. Feels real.
Yes, that's all bullshit, and so is referring to any game with a leveling system an RPG. You can't just take a genre that has character leveling and actual role play and strip away the aspects of it that you want and still keep the genre's original name. It doesn't work like that.
We should stop referring to these games as RPGs. Who agrees? Let's enact change now.
31c856 No.15398933
>>15398884
You seem to know shit about RPG. Can you develop the RPG history, please ?
e68976 No.15398934
>>15398884
>>15398929
You're forgetting that the statistical resolution used in combat (and elsewhere) is what makes them role playing GAMES, as opposed to arbitrary "because I said so" makebelieve.
When you buy an RPG, you're paying for a ruleset, because anybody can make up stuff.
0427d6 No.15398936
>>15398884
>Much of the game is talking amongst each other and with GM acted NPCs.
No nigger, 90% of the game was the fucking combat. The gay talking came later from nerds overly attached to their pretend selves.
f6cc27 No.15398940
>>15398934
>You're forgetting that the statistical resolution used in combat (and elsewhere) is what makes them role playing GAMES
Not sure I follow. You put GAMES in all caps as if to emphasize that word. Why? They're role-playing games because you play the role of your character. It has nothing to do with "statistical resolution"… whatever that means.
8c7ce2 No.15398945
>>15398865
Excellent points, but I would also add that the ability to choose your role and have the ability to play that role within the world is the most important point. Without that role to play, it's just a system of rules, i.e. a game, without the role playing. As in, not a role playing game.
I100% agree about the character's skills being the deciding factor in outcomes, and not player skill in mini-games or clicky-clicking.
e68976 No.15398957
>>15398945
>>15398940
You're both missing a crucial point, what distinguishes RPGs both from non-game makebelieve, and from other genres of game, is that it has specific RULES FOR ROLEPLAY, meaning that the results of roleplay have mechanical significance, and that roleplay is enhanced by their mediation through rules.
You the player can roleplay in any game (RPG Codex mocks this as "LARPing", in analogy to the LARP community's rules-lite tendency), but how does that matter if you have to ignore the game's rules, and the game doesn't acknowledge the significance of your actions?
8c7ce2 No.15398958
>>15398940
> It has nothing to do with "statistical resolution"… whatever that means.
Do you have fast hand-eye co-ordination?
Does your elderly wizard character that never trained a day in his life?
He would probably fail a minor dexterity action, like picking a lock, based on the ability character you're playing as, but if you make it an action oriented mini-game, you can probably succeed 100% of the time where your character wouldn't.
Can you aim with a mouse and get sick headshots tracking moving targets through greenery in a forest?
You might have shit co-ordination in real-life, but your half-elf ranger has trained day and night, so while you flub being able to quick-scope a galloping deer, your character would succeed 90% of the time because it's their day job.
That's the distinction. The outcome of the challenges comes from the character's defined abilities and attributes, not player skill. It's the defining difference between an action game, where you perform the "actions" in whatever form they take (left click to swing sword) and playing the role of the character and letting them perform the actions as well or poorly as they can.
31c856 No.15398962
>>15398957
Okay, it's official now: RPGs videogames are now called LARPs
38aa3e No.15398968
8c7ce2 No.15398971
>>15398957
I agree with you, but would further argue that your argument about rules for roleplay are limited by the software itself, which cannot account for the infinite multitude of emergent gameplay variations that a GM can.
This is what makes the distinction between a proper RPG and a CRPG, which tries to emulate P&P RPGs but fails due to the limiting factors of having to create systems, (like New Vegas faction alignment, Bioware's Fisher Price colour-coded morality, the Witcher's choice and consequences, etc) to account for player interaction with the universe.
e9cbd3 No.15399020
Well, the common trend in western rpgs is that they go overboard with with the dialogue tree options. Excessively and needlessly verbose. And as for Japanese rpgs, the common trend there is the anime artstyle of their characters. An extremely overused aesthetic.
e68976 No.15399070
>>15398971
I think a lot of this simply stems from CRPG designers trying to squeeze everything into the high-detail system used for dungeon exploration.
In P&P, a lot of stuff "done by the GM" is actually done using rules, tables, and templates, but in a lightweight way. For instance, you hexcrawl to an area, look for a town, do a gather information check, break into a temple at night, make your way past traps and even get in a few small fights, then finally get into a dungeon.
The trick? At no point until the last step did you use any minis, a battlemat, or even a sheet of graph paper, because something as precise as exact positioning and room/street layout was never relevant, a lot of systems like D&D can do simple combats without a positional system too, all to skip past the boring parts and focus on what's relevant to characters. Even the final dungeon that requires an actual map and tactical movement, if it's not a setpiece, can be thrown together from template pieces.
CRPGs could do this too, eschewing most of the graphics for a vaguer summary of a situation with buttons to apply various skills to relevant choices. But pretty much the only way this type of thing's used is with human-written branching stuff, and with a crippled CYOA UI that ignores a lot of the rules rather than something procedurally generated that allows players to engage with it using more of the game's full RPG mechanisms.
edffff No.15399081
>>15399020
>the anime artstyle of their characters. An extremely overused aesthetic.
Toriyama's art actually looks distinct compared to the usual moeblob shit though.
61cfb6 No.15399091
Being able to fucking ROLEPLAY?
The only true roleplaying vidya I know is WOTS franchise.
Textbook simulators without consequences like Baldurs Gate or Fallout don't even come close. But hey, grinding stats!
eb977c No.15399121
The term "Role Playing Game" was originally used to describe tabletop games in which you controlled an individual character, as opposed to the more popular (at the time) "Wargames" where you control an army. The term didn't actually have anything to do with "roleplaying a character" until much later, and these early RPGs were entirely mechanical, literally being Wargames with 1-man-armies. Narrative and storytelling did not factor into these games.
The first PC RPGs were created to emulate these early TT RPGs (often literally emulating the rules), and both have developed towards a similar focus on narrative over mechanics, but the defining point of the genre has remained their use of mechanical abstraction.
Games like Kenshi, Mount&Blade, Etrian Odyssey have no real narrative and are still obviously RPGs, whereas your average VN is nothing but dialog options but only an idiot would call them RPGs, except for something like Monster Girl Quest, a VN with RPG mechanics.
>tldr "role playing GAME" not "ROLEPLAYING game"
38aa3e No.15399133
>>15399121
No one cares what you think /tg/.
e68976 No.15399152
>>15399133
Why not both? Roll20 and Tabletop Sim are both liquid dogshit, DTTs and CRPGs have the potential for more.
29a7a7 No.15399180
29a7a7 No.15399205
>>15398929
>We should stop referring to these games as RPGs. Who agrees? Let's enact change now.
Then what should we call them? "Games with RPG-elements" is too long and would create extra lengthy acronyms when accounting for various subgenres.
29a7a7 No.15399229
>>15399081
His monster designs are good, but his character creativity is heavily limited. And he's going senile
31c856 No.15399357
>>15399205
What about RPGlike ?
3efacd No.15399365
bac560 No.15399392
>>15398725
Fuckable by whom exactly?
4dddaf No.15399505
44ae74 No.15399659
Well, it's a ROLE playing game so you should play a ROLE. That for me means you can get "inside" your character. You feel like you are him, or you attach yourself to him. So-called "immersion". But these days it seems to mean anything with stats and leveling…
For me, a Hitman game would make the perfect RPG in a traditional "open world" setting. Just imagine a regular town, where every guy is a potential disguise that all have different effects. Every McDonald's worker, cleaner, cook, etc. Imagine, thousands of different missions that all leave different consequences (perhaps randomly generated). Add Blood Money style newspapers and "notoriety". Immersive as fuck. No levels or stats necessary.
bac560 No.15399705
>>15399659
>self-inserting
Fag
e68976 No.15399765
>>15399659
>Immersive as fuck. No levels or stats necessary.
Except, since it's player skill based, you have to actually match or surpass the character you're supposed to be playing. You the player must to a substantial degree acquire his reflexes, his environmental awareness, his grasp of stealth and timing.
Likewise, there can be no progression. Replaying the game, regardless of whether your character is supposed to be a rookie, your skills as a player will have him performing like the veteran you are, right out of the gate. Unless, of course, you consciously limit your abilities, sandbagging without any acknowledgment from the game.
RPGs must have mechanical hooks for roleplay, to abstract you from your character, and your character from you. That's what stats are for.
578d08 No.15399785
e2f90e No.15399787
stats, leveling up, and usually a notable amount of abstraction.
6b7052 No.15399797
>>15398929
Reminder that tabletop games suck. The DnD system was created before computers were a thing, but the full potential is only realized in computer games. The "role" part of pnp was there only to mask the lack of graphics and sounds, and obviously "roleplaying", builtin or player enacted in a cprg is obsolete and stupid.
e2f90e No.15399810
>>15399797
this, and also any games that translate the table top game play to a single player game is basically worthless and for losers with no friends.
3d4d01 No.15399821
>>15398929
Video Game RPG is it's own medium, dumbass. They're not the electronic version of Tabletop RPG, just partially inspired by it. Also, just like how tabletop rpg is differed from unstructured roleplaying and larping, video game rpg's aren't simply games where you play a role. The role needs to be defined extensively by the player to qualify the game as an rpg.
e68976 No.15399829
>>15399821
>They're not the electronic version of Tabletop RPG
Remember there are some exceptions, like NWN.
3d4d01 No.15399832
>>15399829
That makes it tabletop roleplaying video game, a fusion of 2 mediums.
2d6e30 No.15399866
>>15398865
>>15398958
>>15399765
So the character skill and the player skill must be differentiated? This is an interesting idea I hadn't thought of. I guess if it's all player skill it's just an arcade game. So RPG's necessarily HAVE to deal with stats and numbers?
>>15398884
>>15398929
>>15399070
>>15399091
>>15399821
So enough agency leeway to actually act out a role CHOSEN BY THE PLAYER. Can't think of any vidya RPG's by this standard, but the reasoning checks out.
126fb5 No.15399874
>>15398865
Agree that that is both a rational and correct interpretation of what it means for a game to be an rpg. Yet not a complete explanation. You are forgetting the role part of the acronym rpg, to give an example look to Chrono Trigger and Breath of Fire I, both have multiple endings based upon choices made by the player, but you, the player, are playing a role, as the emotes used by the character you play as are not fully under your control, only a few are under player control and fewer more have anything to do with the story ending you acquire, yet both Chrono and Ryu has a role in the story being played out before your senses and thus other emotes, including ones that are prompts from previous player choices and leading to a different ending, are not under player control.
>tl;dr. Clear and concise Player skill, Character skill rule sets + An open and simple Role to play = RPG.
>inb4 sub-genres. Fuck you it is the simplest definition and thus supersedes sub-genres in importance of the OP. "What makes an RPG and RPG?"
e68976 No.15399966
>>15399874
>You are forgetting the role part of the acronym rpg
That, to the extent relevant for an RPG, is what's written on your charsheet. The more complete and elegant the ruleset, the better it encompasses the character you've conceived of or been given.
>multiple endings based upon choices made by the player
While C&C is a crucial part of my favorite CRPGs, it's also a crucial part of much non-RPG vidya I'm fond of.
Further, while way in which you noted the stat system of RPGs (even something as simple as a morality or skill stat) meshing nicely with C&C does indicate a peculiar affinity with RPGs, I'd argue the ancestry of the C&C mechanic goes back not to tabletop RPGs, but to the parallel genre of CYOA books (incidentally, while there was some crossover between the two, like Fighting Fantasy, it was just that, crossover), the vidya descendants of which are of course VNs, not CRPGs.
3d4d01 No.15399991
>>15399866
>So the character skill and the player skill must be differentiated?
Character skills DEFINE the character. Player skills define the player. Guess which one is roleplaying.
>So RPG's necessarily HAVE to deal with stats and numbers?
No, but there's no better means of giving the player the biggest amount of freedom in defining their character.
>Can't think of any vidya RPG's by this standard
Basically any game with stats, character customization, and nonlinearity fits this criteria. JRPG doesn't though, or barely does at best.
>>15399966
I think it's better for an RPG to have no ending screen.
efa79c No.15400596
>>15399377
>calls the autistic
>posts that faggot cat meme
94e14c No.15400648
>>15398684
Want me to know how I know you own Tabletop Simulator?
2d6e30 No.15400672
94e14c No.15400674
>>15400672
The pic you got is the same as one of the workshop items.
8e654a No.15400682
>>15399765
You can't ever get rid of player skill entirely. There will still be it in choosing where to go, what to pick up, what to sell, what factions to join, what missions to get…Morrowind, hailed by its lovers as a true RPG with the dice roll combat, still suffers from this heavily. I mean, if you have the knowledge, you can just become a god by exploiting some alchemy glitches. Great "RPG" you've got there.
A Hitman game still abstracts a lot though. I mean you just sneak up to people, Fibre Wire them and watch 47, the master assassin, execute the kill perfectly. But what if it was YOU, the player, who had to deal with things like people trying to escape the fiber wire? So there is already RPG in 47's mastery. If you really want progression, you can do it through reputation or money to buy equipment. Stats and levels are overdone and frankly, fucking boring. >>15399765
2d6e30 No.15400691
>>15400674
I don't own the game, and the pic was the one I settled for when trying to search for an image that conveyed a generic RPG concept.
bea007 No.15400724
94e14c No.15400738
e68976 No.15400952
>>15400682
>spoilers
True, though if the game is branch-y enough, playing a different character build will throw enough new stuff at you that you can still be surprised.
>glitches
argument_not_found.gaypegged
>But what if it was YOU, the player, who had to deal with things like people trying to escape the fiber wire? So there is already RPG in 47's mastery.
That sort of thing is generally regarded as a flaw in action games (unless it's something designed in a "gameist" rather than "simulationist" way, like a typical arcade fighting game), where only our need to abide by keyboard/mouse/monitor UI in lieu of VR prevents us from furthering the fidelity of player skill. In RPGs, though, it's a virtue RPGs requiring no refinement.
e7be91 No.15401540
Any game where you play a role, such as pong
bab2cc No.15401992
>>15398929
But every game is a role-playing game, since you play the role of your character?
29a7a7 No.15402080
>>15399377
I have a family member who won't shut up about this fucking normalfag meme.
>>15401992
>>15401540
3ae14d No.15402110
Any game where I can name the main character is an RPG.
f6cc27 No.15402121
>>15399205
>Then what should we call them?
I never said you couldn't still call them RPGs. I just said that the term RPG has become a misnomer.
f6cc27 No.15402125
>>15401992
>But every game is a role-playing game, since you play the role of your character?
That's what I fucking said here:
>>15398929
>If we're going to continue to call these games RPGs then let's just call everything an RPG.
29a7a7 No.15402134
>>15402121
>I never said you couldn't still call them RPGs.
>>We should stop referring to these games as RPGs. Who agrees? Let's enact change now.
f6cc27 No.15402137
>>15398958
>Do you have fast hand-eye co-ordination?
>Does your elderly wizard character that never trained a day in his life?
>He would probably fail a minor dexterity action, like picking a lock, based on the ability character you're playing as
You don't understand tabletop D&D. You don't have a say in how good your character is in a certain skill like lock picking. The games rules decide that, usually by the roll of a die. Where dice can't determine whether or not your character can perform an action, the dungeon master steps in and makes the call.
tl;dr: Rules dictate the boundaries within which your character behaves. Role-play is the actual acting of your character. This is why LARP stands for "live-action role-play" because you're playing a role outside the tabletop.
29a7a7 No.15402155
>>15402137
What about LARPGs?
6936af No.15402167
>>15398684
>PC has to be a complete blank slate
>Can kill anyone at anytime
>Some sort of progression system
>Choices you make have an affect on the game's world
>Game world has to be atleast somewhat open without restrictions on the overworld excluding selected areas
bab2cc No.15402176
138f1c No.15402196
>>15398684
A game where you play a role…
b34d4c No.15402225
>>15399821
>They're not the electronic version of Tabletop RPG,
That is exactly what a WRPG is dipshit
>>15398936
Roleplaying has always been a part of pen and paper rpgs, hence the fucking name.
c10c23 No.15402333
To be a pure RPG? Turn-based, menu-driven combat.
f6cc27 No.15402532
>>15402333
>To be a pure RPG? Turn-based, menu-driven combat.
Even this is not an RPG in the true sense of the original term.
29a7a7 No.15402617
>>15402532
The mouse one uses with a computer is not a mouse in the true sense of the original term. I suggest we stop calling them mice and start calling them computer pointing devices, or CPDs for short.
e0cce9 No.15402628
>>15402137
I created the character, I chose his skill specialities, his ability scores, what he's good at, what he sucks at. I don't determine his success or failure, that's on the system and the dice, but I definitely have a say in the way the character is built and how the character is played.
You seem hell-bent on cleaving role-playing from the game system itself, and not allowing the player's defined role, the character they have built and are role-playing as, and separating it from the actual rolling of dice to determine outcomes.
> You don't understand tabletop D&D.
I do, I just think you're being terribly autistic about differentiating the role-play from the game system itself.
> You don't have a say in how good your character is in a certain skill like lock picking.
Yes I do. I created the character and its role within the story and game world according to the rules of the game system, and built their skills according to their role and story.
> The games rules decide that, usually by the roll of a die.
The game rules augment the role-playing part of the RPG to shape the story. They're part and parcel, tied together. Role-play without rules is just sitting around playing pretend, and dice without characters or story is just random numbers to determine success or failure according to arbitrary rules.
A role-playing game has both. Role-playing, and the game system. One informs the other.
f6cc27 No.15402634
>>15402617
You are correct. A computer mouse is not a furry animal in the true sense of the term.
3d4d01 No.15402645
>>15402225
>That is exactly what a WRPG is dipshit
No. Even the first WRPGs were almost nothing like tabletop, they were dungeon crawlers with barely any narrative. Another thing that prevents a roleplaying vidya from being like tabletop is the impossibility of unlimited outcomes. Every outcome in a video game rpg is either really scripted (old fallout games, arcanum, and such) or indefinite but shallow (elder scrolls).
29a7a7 No.15402676
>>15402634
I'm glad we can come to an agreement.
8b8982 No.15403372
>>15398684
Right now there are basically two definitions. The popular one that publishers like to slap on everything is "has stats & character progression". This is a definition that people who don't know shit and kids use; yes, p&p rpgs had statistics but it was to limit the possibilities of players, they could just pick the best options everytime and breeze through everything.
The second is harder to define but for me it's "dialogue is gameplay", this catches a lot of games but "barely an rpg" is still an rpg in my eyes.
e68976 No.15403472
>>15402137
> You don't have a say in how good your character is in a certain skill like lock picking
Except during chargen
>Where dice can't determine whether or not your character can perform an action, the dungeon master steps in and makes the call.
DM fiat (i.e.: "Rule 0") exists as a patch to compensate for inadequacies in the ruleset. Actually depending on this as a core design goal of your game is leaning away from RPGs, into the faggy netherrealm of freeform RP.
>Rules dictate the boundaries within which your character behaves. Role-play is the actual acting of your character.
No, rules in RPGs provide a conduit of abstraction through which you must control your character, lending your results a flavor peculiar to that RPG's ruleset. They are the medium in which your character is expressed, like an illustrator's brushes and paints.
>>15402645
Many of the first WRPGs, for instance SSI's "Gold Box" games, were literally tabletop rulesets dropped onto the computer. As was said upthread, the early P&P RPGs these first CRPGs modelled were dungeon crawls with barely any narrative.
>>15403372
>"dialogue is gameplay"
Sounds more like adventure/VN or IF, if we're talking about the bygone days of text parsers rather than multiple choice dialogue trees. Granted, that's a mechanic I like seeing in any genre, but there's nothing about RPGs that make it any closer identified to the genre.
68d55b No.15404622
Octodad OP is the one true role playing game, you the octo but also the dad, you platonically love your children but must also squrim about the humans surreptitiously.
4e45db No.15404631
>>15402617
But i use a trackball….
e68976 No.15404650
>>15404631
Upside-down mouse
6a3b4c No.15404751
29a7a7 No.15406394
>>15404650
Upside down CPD, or UDCPD for short.
3d4d01 No.15408138
>>15403472
>literally tabletop rulesets dropped onto the computer
And as I've said earlier too, no matter how inspired it is by the tabletop RPG's, roleplaying video games will never be able to replicate the tabletop experience. It creates it's own unique experience, unless the dev literally makes a multiplayer digital tabletop game with human DM, players, and everything.
e68976 No.15408313
>>15408138
Yeah, for a well-DM'd session, especially one using a lot of homebrewed campaign material. Even so, the rules in the book are mirrored 1:1 between P&P and vidya.
>unless the dev literally makes a multiplayer digital tabletop game with human DM, players, and everything.
A shame this never took off. FRUA, NWN (both versions), UO (and the broader MMO genre), TES' modding community, all of them seem to head in the wrong direction.
a98fc1 No.15408464
Swords and shields, bows and magic
Also autism
341f2b No.15408480
>>15398684
>What are the absolute qualities needed for a videogame to be an RPG?
vidya can't be RPG, since it would require actually intelligent DM (or GM or what-fucking-ever), so it's just vidya RPG
341f2b No.15408488
d247ac No.15408490
1) roleplaying
2) gameplay
This list is complete and definitive.
341f2b No.15408508
>>15408490
you can roleplay anything, so all games can be RPGs, in fact you can roleplay as troll in the internet
e68976 No.15408511
b31c9a No.15408548
One of the softest definitions would be some manner of stats that characters have and some degree of regular progression in those stats or other capabilities. Doesn't necessarily have to be through leveling, but as a general rule your core proficiencies do have to develop over the course of the game. Zelda isn't really an RPG because while you do acquire additional abilities over the course of the game, they are treated more like keys to handling different challenges rather than general enhancements to your combat repertoir; though you can attempt to use them that way it's generally better to default to your sword if you don't need a particular item to defeat the enemy. You do accumulate heart containers over the course of the game, but those are as close as it gets to proper RPG progression.
Yes you can be autistic and argue that this is a misuse of the term and that any game where you play a role that isn't literally yourself is an RPG, but I'm attempting to define the colloquial definition instead of the fundamental definition which anybody with a brain already understands.
e68976 No.15408605
>>15408548
Mentioning Zelda **(except maybe Zelda 2, elements only) is a little troll-y, but if I'm feeling charitable, strictly item-based character building isn't completely off base for an RPG.
A good example of the borderline between such games and RPGs, might be "space trucker" games like Elite or Escape Velocity, and "stompy" mecha games like Metaltech or Mechwarrior. While your character isn't modeled by the rules, your sweet ride is, and in lieu of XP, money is used to buy parts and trade in for better base models.
I still don't think I'd go so far as to call these RPGs, but they're certainly very similar.
f1d236 No.15408622
evolutionary statistically based probability of consequential effects of character interactions
b31c9a No.15408637
>>15408605
You misunderstand, I phrased it as "doesn't necessarily have to be through leveling" in order to include games where your gear and options are improved over the course of the game instead of a leveling system.
I argue that the Zelda series(other than 2) doesn't quite count as an item-progression RPG because it overwhelmingly relies on the sword (which seldom changes throughout the game), with the other tools you acquire over the course of the adventure mainly serving as means to get around immunities and stuff instead of as effective combat tactics in themselves. In other words, when's the last time you used bombs on something you could just easily sword to death?
e68976 No.15408681
>>15408637
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting Zelda's items fit the mold of gear-based RPG elements, since Zelda's are basically just powerups like picking up weapons in Doom. And Zelda 2's RPG elements are totally different, being just character stat boosts.
About the closest thing to Zelda that fits the gear advancement style of RPG elements are (and I don't consider it a proper RPG either) From's Soulsbourne games, appropriate, when you consider their other big franchise was Armored Core.
f8c1fd No.15408750
>>15399797
So you've never played a tabletop RPG.
7b4c67 No.15408854
>>15398962
>video games
>LIVE ACTION role play
0571aa No.15409093
table top wargames were invented in the 19th century.
in the 50s fantasy wargames were invented.
in the early 70s new fantasy wargames with rules allowing players to play the roles of individual characters in the campaign became known as role playing games.
elements of these early role playing games influenced the "gamebook" (aka choose your own adventure) literary genre that has existed since the 30s leading to the adventure gamebook genre. adventure gamebooks had simple rpg mechanics that influenced story progression, these simplified mechanics minimized or eliminated dice rolling or other games of chance from the mechanics and were largely equipment driven. adventure gamebooks transitioned to computers as text adventure games and later evolved into adventure videogames.
those early tabletop rpgs also eventually transitioned to computers as Multi User Dungeons which later became Online RPG videogames and eventually RPG videogames when computers became advanced enough for single player. Nowadays the lines have become blurred between the two genres of Adventure videogames and RPGs but the general rule of differentiating between them is if they rely more on collecting equipment with minimal RNG mechanics (Adventure) or improving character stats for RNG success (RPG).
599307 No.15411709
>>15402617
They're already called pointers/pointing devices in most?/some source code, APIs and documentation. I think that was the original name, as it seems to be prevalent in older handbooks and guides as well. It's convenient because things like trackpads, trackballs, and that clit thing can all use the same interface because they all really do the same thing, namely point at pixels on a monitor. Not sure when 'mouse' came along, but you can be sure marketers were responsible.
16301b No.15411751
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15411709
>Not sure when 'mouse' came along, but you can be sure marketers were responsible.
According to this article:
https://www.Stop promoting gawker sites you idiotcom.au/2015/12/why-a-computer-mouse-is-called-a-mouse-douglas-engelbart/
(archive isn't working)
>Now for the million dollar question — why was it called a mouse? Engelbart simply says that it was because it looked like a mouse with the cord coming out the back — although the design was soon changed to have the 'tail' coming from the front of the device for ease of use. An alternate theory that has been suggested was that the on-screen cursor was called a CAT at the time, and someone thought it would be whimsical to have the mouse chase the cat around the screen. We'll never know for sure — Englebert has since admitted that no one really remembers for certain where the epithet came from.
29a7a7 No.15411841
>>15411751
>https://www.Stop promoting gawker sites you idiotcom
599307 No.15412084
>>15411751
Thanks for the vid, something about that rudimentary code-folding was inspiring.
2547d7 No.15412121
>>15398684
lot of romance and autism also ablity to make your own character
eea467 No.15412124
>>15398929
what would you propose we call them? rpg-likes?
containing rpg elements? thats already a thing to refer to games that arent too much like the rpg-likes. were dug in pretty deep here to be honest family.
55cd7b No.15412130
>>15398940
>It has nothing to do with "statistical resolution"… whatever that means
Come back when you learn English