/v/ - Video Games

>>15126802

I think part of the problem with Source-melee is the screen moves when you swing the weapon, but actually hitting something has no feedback.

If the player is swinging a heavy object, you could add kickback when they actually strike a surface or victim.

how easily can you aim your attacks?

is the complexity gonna be at the level of dwarf fortress?

In my experience there are three things that make a first-person melee system satisfying:

1. Directional swings. This can be as simple as a left-right combo, or you can let the player control it (e.g. hold A and swing to swing left)

2. Enemy reactions matching swing type. It should always feel like you're transferring force from your weapon into the enemy, not just doing x damage and causing a flinch.

3. Aiming. This can be as simple as including "headshots" for extra damage. Incentivize the player to do more than just spam attacks at whatever part of the enemy is closest, instead waiting for the best angle to strike.

You don't need Mountain Blade levels of melee mechanics for this, just a basic understanding of what makes melee swings feel like they have weight. And of course the animations have to be not shit (see every Bethesda game for what NOT to do).

Grappling can be fun, but that's an entire system in itself.

Try slower attacks with a:

good woosh -> good thwack -> follow through animation with the weapon

And if you can animate pain and stagger on the enemy I think that's all you need. Can't go wrong ripping off Condemned.

>>15126802

>melee in Source games feel kinda unresponsive and floaty.

Not in Dark Messiah or Zeno clash.

>>15126912

Also, Condemned 2 on pc when?

Dead Island has a good melee system, but I'm not sure how it would work in pvp. Looking at a limb automatically targets that limb, and there were differently weighted weapons. It works well in a zombie game since they all crowd around you, but in pvp, other players might move to quickly to make such a system effective.

>>15126867

This basically. Just one thing, don't over do the feedback with too much screen shaking and remember that if you're making a "survival" FPS the melee system can't be overpowered or too reliable.

I good example that comes to mind is ZombiU (or Zombi for PC), never thought a cricket bat would feel good to swing. Good feedback, good sound, it feels weighty etc. However it needed more than one type of swing and the ability to target body parts.

>>15126802

the tried and true method of checking melee is to

>check if player's cursor is on the enemy

>then check the distance

>fire hitscan

Have a deadzone for weapon model tracking so it doesnt feel like the weapon is welded to the camera

>>15126927

i think the better question is condemned 2 on pc why. it fucking sucked

>>15126949

This method is cancerous and feels weird while playing. I would suggest taking inspiration from Techland. Say what you want about their STROK INDEPENDANT LIBERAL WOMYN or how shit their games are, but if there is one thing they got right, it was how to make melee combat satisfying.

>>15127010

Just because of the ending? I'd like to play the all the stuff before it.

>>15127038

because of the entirety of the game. changing the main voice actor was bad. changing him from a detective with a sixth sense to a demon-punching alcoholic with FUS RO DAH powers was bad. changing the game from a gritty, heart-pounding exercise in "is there a hobo around that corner waiting to beat me unconscious and eat my corpse" to "i need to go full super saiyan and save the world with my voice powers" was completely retarded

>>15126820

Also, melee in source engine is just a short range hitscan weapon, not even a collision.

>>15126949

>Start attack

>enemy's head moves off cursor during windup

>hitscan misses

>swing crowbar through the dude, doing 0 damage

Shit system tbh, thats how you end up with garbage Minecraft melee

make a JRPG-themed battle system to set your game apart from the crowd

You should not care about this OP, as the FPS genre never had any good melee.

>>15126802

>good sounds + animations

>enemies flinch away from the blow, stagger backwards and generally react appropriately to damage

>doubly satisfying if you can actually damage targeted parts of the enemy, eg breaking their arm, knocking their weapon out of their hands, sweeping their legs out from under them etc

>use hull traces for the swing so you don't have to have your crosshair exactly on their body, especially for large weapons with big sweeping swing arcs

>the player must have a few different types of attacks, eg regular swing, charged power swing, sprinting swing, a rising uppercut swing if the player is crouching/sliding on the ground etc

>have knockback and stagger effects in multiplayer pvp to discourage the tactic of just blindly charging the enemy and spamming left click until one or the other dies (don't overdo the stagger, players should not be able to stunlock others because that is just cheesy and frustrating)

The floaty feeling is a simple issue caused by years of complacency.

The only game I've played with satisfying first person melee is FEAR, and that's because they go to great lengths to make the player not feel like a disembodied floating camera. You have to ditch the traditional vmodel/world model first person implementation, or at least try to alleviate that by having the floating disembodied camera track the world model animation of your character as you do your attacks.

It feels slightly stocky and not as fluid having the camera move in ways that aren't 1 to 1 with the keys pressed (camera bobing back and forth as you walk, camera bobbing to the side as you punch because of your shoulders rolling), but it gives the impression of actually throwing your weight into attacks, rather than just swinging your arms like an autist playing fisticuffs in school. This is also very important for getting the attacks from the player perspective to accurately represent what is happening in the game world, without this kind of camera shifting, its straight up impossible for an attack as it exists in the world, to end up looking the same as what the player sees, and that's how you end up with npcs ragdolling incorrectly and force being applied in confusing ways.

For unresponsiveness, it's actually a similar issue, if the windup of your melee attack happens offscreen (which there has to be, you can't swing a sword without drawing it back), there's necessarily going to be at least one frame where it seems nothing is happening because your weapon and arm are offscreen, camera shifting helps portray that your character is shifting his weight and not just waiting a few frames to do what you asked him to. It all just comes down to giving feedback to the player which represents what is really happening in your game world. If he's holding his sword down at waist level, then don't show an animation of him holding his sword up to his face like he's trying to check his teeth in the reflection of his blade.

>>15128777

It's merely the directional moveset for ease of getting around blocks or disabling someone by knocking out their knee with a lead pipe. As it's survival it's expected to have a stamina system so you can't go helicopterfucking people at a party with a baseball bat.

>>15126926

>lmao just kick models and turn them into ragdolls game

>>15126802

>Melee in Source

>Not Zenoclash

tsk tsk

>>15126802

Melee never works in first person.

>>15128809

That still counts as responsive and non-floaty.

Choke on a dick faggot.