/v/ - HAPPY E3 EVERYONE

stea mgay lol

>>14876494

Wow like I can't believe you would defend steam!! You must be from reddit!

The sales have been more lackluster each and every year since the one christmas sale and the introduction of refunds,you cannot dispute this.

wtf i love steam now

>>14876507

>>14876507

Not to mention the trade restrictions because kids are too stupid to tell when they're talking to a bot. Also games being region locked, I used to get insane deals from russians like F:NV GOTY for 2 tf2 keys, now I have to talk to other americans that somehow make the game cost more in keys than if I bought the game directly from steam myself. Valve can go fuck themselves after this

Valve allows companies to implement 3rd party DRM into their games ontop of steam.

Not really an issue now because they just don't exist anymore, but buying a physical pc game and just getting a steam code for it was really stupid.

>>14876494

Are you author of pokemon thread too?

>>MP just werks, no fees like for console MP

Wouldn't be an issue if every PC game came with dedicated server support LIKE THEY SHOULD.

>>Can easily play with friends

<Having friends

>>No need to hunt down patches

Hasn't been an issue for about 20 years, Steam or no Steam

>>Integrated game specific forums

Filled with mouth breathing retards

>>Can easily install mods

Granted.

Those things you call positive sound like consolefag retardation.

>>No need to hunt down patches

I love when companies shove down my throat censor patches or remove content, or just outright break the game. Because I can't use the version of the game I want to use.

>>Integrated game specific forums

Forums for games have always existed, what do you gain from them being "integrated"?

>>Can easily install mods

And pay for them.

>>14876494

>no underage redditors trying to fit in please

then why are you here?

Steam is a shit store and Valve is cancerously jewish.

>>14876550

>what do you gain from them being "integrated"?

now devs can censor you directly instead of going through some moderator who doesn't care so that you don't damage their "brand"

>>14876550

I think the occurance of a patch being something to censor or remove wanted content is very rare,but it still does happen.

There's plenty of free mods and there always will be on steam.

>>14876507

I cannot

>>14876525

Arguably steam is much better suited for MP games, there is no real reason to buy SP games on steam or buy them at all.

>>14876528

Yes, i too fondly remember the time when i got a physical copy with starforce or securom that completely fucked my computer. Those were good times.

The locking down of trading is regrettable but happened only because of user retardation. So blame this one on the normalfags.

>>14876600

>i too fondly remember the time when i got a physical copy with starforce or securom that completely fucked my computer

The same retards who are defending steam were the ones defending securom.

>So blame this one on the normalfags

You mean the target audience of steam?

>>14876597

>There's plenty of free mods

doesn't change the fact that steam directly enabled paid mods on top of all the other lootbox cancer that infests every modern game.

I'm autistic about collecting and tracking achievements so I use steam. That is all.

>>14876625

When you mean paid mods are you talking about source engine mods like that hunt down the freeman shit? or the bethesda goyshop

>>14876649

Both

Also including fan made skins which used to be free but then started getting sold by Valve.

> "let's have a rational discussion about steam"

< proceed to deepthroat valve

dubs

>>14876665

Fair point,there's a couple of curators who point out garbage like that and mark it as shit so it never shows up in my feed thankfully,you just gotta know one who's not pozzed.

give me convenience or give me death

>>14876707

Spoken like true cattle.

>>14876707

Give yourself death, reddit

>>14876712

i was quoting the title of a dead kennedy's album. the album title is a commentary on lazy consumerist driven shit like steam

<they can delete all your gaymes

>Will never happen or they get sued into oblivion

It's still possible that Valve goes bankrupt, or there is a massive mistake and they lose all their data.

Even if the risk is small. It's still a risk you wouldn't have to take if you actually owned your games.

The survival of a steamfags library is tied to the well being of Valve, they basically turned themselves into the vidya equivalent of "to big to fail" banks

<They spy on you

>What else other than the DNS leak has been confirmed?

They store a ton of data on you, like billing information, email and they constantly pester you for a phone number

<There are games in the store i don't like!

>Are you forced to buy them?

Shitty newgrounds tier shovelware clogs up the store and makes it harder for good games without a marketing budget to get noticed.

Even the simplest of QA on valves part would make the store much better.

You can't even filter the shit properly since all the tags are user made memes

>>MP just werks, no fees like for console MP

<They are slightly less shit than Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo

Is not exactly high praise.

>>Can easily play with friends

What do you mean by easy?

Are your friend to retarded to connect to a server manually? You might need new friends

>>No need to hunt down patches

Can't stop patches that poz up the game or make it worse. Less control is only a good thing for retards.

>>Integrated game specific forums

They are shit. And they let devs powertrip harder than a janitor on 4chan

>>Can easily install mods

Again with the easy. How much of a fucking normalfag are you that manually downloading mods and moving them to a folder is somehow a big deal for you?

Let's not forget that valve where the guys who first tried paid mods with bethesda. Don't pretend they won't try to profit of this shit, if they can get away with it. Letting valve control mod distribution is a bad idea.

In conclusion Go back to reddit and/or kill yourself you fucking Valvedrone shill

>>14876600

>there is no real reason to buy SP games […] at all.

Faggot. You should be buying good single player games from good developers provided they don't kike you over like by only making the game available on steam (but again, good devs, so ones that only put their games on steam don't apply). Conveniently there are almost no games like this left so it's not like you'd spend a lot of money. We can blame that on a combination of normalfags supporting garbage, kikes pushing anti-consumer practices and to some degree fags that refused to pay for the rare good games from nonshit developers and publishers because 'lol paying for single player is stupid, I only pay for these shitty multiplayer games filled with anti-consumer shit to ensure that the bad practices are rewarded'.

>>14876494

There's no quality control on Steam, it's a shovelware platform.

Option A: Steam doesn't shut down and remains with our civilization forever, essentially becoming the ultra-pozzed main distributor of media within the next century.

Option B: Steam shuts down and nothing happens because we've all signed disclaimers basically saying that we're not entitled to a class action lawsuit.

Steam, as a piece of software, is a giant smelly turd, especially on anything other than Windows. But if you don’t already know this that there’s no point in explaining it.

Also, check your (((data))): https://help.steampowered.com/en/accountdata

>>14876494

Digital distribution has become shit in all ways but convenience, partly because of inherent flaws, and partly because of corporate greed. Its biggest theoretical benefit, which was cutting out the costs of physical distribution, has intentionally been made a false promise by AAA companies. The dream of a new golden age of affordable PC gaming was killed in the cradle. The biggest benefit that Steam has provided at this point is enabling the few good indie devs that exist to self-publish, but now Valve is fucking that up by drowning them in shovelware.

You also can't sell, trade, or give away your games, because they're not really your property, and you're reliant upon Valve's continued existence to play them. It might seem alarmist to say "But what if Steam dies," but nothing is too big to fail. Movie rental stores were a multi-billion dollar industry that everyone thought was a permanent fixture less than 15 years ago. And as a lesser point, I wonder how many parents will die and never be able to pass on their games to their children because they didn't think to put their Steam login into their will.

>>14876494

The Steam frontend is a piece of shit. How can you have changelogs full of things and still be so shitty?

>>14876494

<Non-existent quality control

<Tags system sucks

<So does scores and reviews systems

<Digital releases only

>>14877223

they don't even have changelogs for games anymore.

it used to be neat and organised, now you have to search inbetween 20 kotaku and pcgamer articles for supposed game update notes that may or may not exist. (in the case of the recent RE4 HD update in april, it does NOT exist)

>OP is a (2)

so much for that "discussion" eh?

Fucking cuckold

Anyways here's my laundry list of Steam's bullshittery.

>Censorship up the ass

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/07/sjws-had-house-party-removed-from-steam-claiming-it-was-pornography/36006/

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/11/valve-prohibits-uncensored-patches-steam-due-state-laws-says-mangagamer/43308/

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/03/media-outlets-pressure-valve-shutdown-anti-feminist-steam-groups-nationalist-groups/54266/

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/12/key-home-いえのかぎ-removed-steam-valve-thinks-pedophiles-core-audience/46385/

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2017/09/valve-removes-various-uncensored-erotic-games-from-steam/40450/

>sketchiness and sliminess involving sales, contests, steam markets

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=bCrS2Bh4cc0>>14877249

>paid mods twice working hard with bethesda each time as well as raking in nearly all the revenue involved in said market

>Gaben and Valve fought against the backlash hard enough until they literally could not handle the sheer weight of people's anger

>They are one of the largest companies to pioneer lootbox-style crate and key microtransactions

>Their customer service is fucking awful

>they need to be literally shouted and banged down upon their doors to be forced to do anything

They allow DRM on their platform, even having their own DRM

>they don't make (good) shit anymore and contribute to the cancer that is the moba esports scene massively

>they have incredible power as an online storefront, near a practical monopoly

>their store is filled to the brim with shovelware, making it incredibly hard to find anything good

>they fired pretty much everyone who was ever good involved with development

>they hired a studio full of SJWs and what a surprise VNs are now attempting to be censored

>even regular games like Hatred were being censored

>greenlight and early access were also cancer, their storefront has only gotten worse, and their recommendations are shit despite their datamining

>they contribute to streamerbait and that general cancer by allowing early access garbage to exploit their systems like PUBG and many others

>not only that, but they are fucking MASSIVE as a storefront, near a monopoly and yet they choose to do nothing for good and absolutely near-everything for evil

What a surprise they're fucking cancer

>>14877254

Lazy enablers like you are part of the reason why the industry is so shit right now.

Get off your fat lazy ass and start being a consumer that's worth a damn instead of a literal fucking drone that's "too tired" to not contribute to a cancerous fucking company

>>14877385

Video games is a hobby for lazy asses to begin with, because doing sports or social activities is too much trouble. You just sit on your ass and push buttons to move pixels on screen. You can't get any lazier than that.

Develop some self-awareness dude.

>Bad

DRM

Shovelware

Overpricing

Gambling

Data mining

>Good

Valve stopped making games

>>14877393

Everyone does lazy shit, anon. Watch TV, browse social media, whatever. Stop being a moron.

>>14877360

That's not valve's fault tho.

Steam is DRM, I don't want to be forced to install and run a service just to access my single player game.

Steam made it clear that it was complete cancer when Valve made cash shops, cash markets, hamfisted cosmetics and lootcrates commonplace in modern games, and tried to do so with paid mods. It ruined its titles, TF2 and CSGO, for a cheap buck and made other developers follow suit. Anyone with a speck of decency should refuse to buy from them after this.

>>14876494

>No need to hunt down patches

Not true, but user discussions and tutorials are there so it's not that hard to find one.

>>14876773

It's even worse with filtering.

>Can't filter price ranges, user rating ranges

>Can't filter out VR only titles

>Can't filter out specific tags(as in showing stuff without said tag)

>Filtering multiple tags is a pain in the ass

<There are games in the store i don't like!

>Are you forced to buy them?

No, but we are forced to sift through fucking mountains of them to find the good stuff.

Games with no executable files or otherwise broken games do get found out quickly. But they should not be an issue in the first place. NOBODY that is a potential customer should be having to alert Valve that games they are charging money for are fundamentally fucked. That is Valve's job.

But no. They can get the customer to do the work for them, so they can have more time to not make Half Life 3, or anything else original that people may be interested in.

It is shit.

It is better to pirate games.

End of discussion.

Browsing the steam store is such a pain in the ass given how slow it is, and it becomes straight unusable during sales. How the fuck has Valve not upgraded their servers after all these years?

>>14876494

The human side of Steam is the worst part of Steam. Their support staff or lack thereof leaves much to be desired. If you have a problem bigger than "I forgot my account information" then good luck getting a real person to help you with your issue.

Then their process of moderating what goes on the store is simply horrendous. Remember when they made it so companies only had to have one game moderated and then they could add whatever without scrutiny? Remember how that ended up with a bunch of awful shovelware being put up by companies that bought the rights to a bunch of said shovelware? Steam Greenlight could have used more moderation too before it died. They should have had real people filtering through all the non-games so they could have avoided the situation of half-decent looking games not getting enough votes because people stopped browsing Greenlight because they were tired of asset flips.

tl;dr - All the parts of Steam that need actual humans to moderate it don't really have any and the overall platform suffers as a result.

>Will never happen or they get sued into oblivion

Already has happened, your lawyer wont beat valves lawyers.

>>14877854

That requires time, money, and effort; so valve isn't going to lift a finger when they can collect an endless stream of cash stuffing their face at their candy cafeteria

>>14877898

The software doesn't make much sense in it's hardware usage either. No matter what computer I've used with it, toaster or monster, it always seems to use about 12% of my RAM for some god damn reason.

<they can delete all your gaymes

I have not ever heard of this being the case unless someone gets banned entirely from steam (is that even possible? Maybe for fraud or something) or more relevantly they get hacked… The effectiveness of Steam's security is debatable however.

<They spy on you

Yes, and you don't actually own the games, only licenses to play them, DRM is still cancer and Steam has paved way for DRMs and shit like always online.

>What else other than the DNS leak has been confirmed?

The fact there are leaks usually mean there's more under the hood. But what do I know?

<There are games in the store i don't like!

>Are you forced to buy them?

No but no one is forced to buy hats and skins on tf2 or csgo, when was the lat time Valve actually made a game instead of making fat stacks of cash by selling games from other people?

>MP just werks, no fees like for console MP

<Steam servers are shit and why can't anyone into dedicated servers now?

>Can easily play with friends

<Can easily

>No need to hunt down patches

<has never needed to 'hunt down' a patch for anything even before steam because shit usually came out working anyway

>Integrated game specific forums

who the fuck uses or cares about these things? I don't even think I *can* use them.

Steam does what it is supposed to, allow you to play games you bought licenses for and works as a DRM for games… Who the fuck uses Steam for a community anyway?

>>14877916

2012

>>14876665

>both

>mod/games on source

you fucking imbecile nigger.

>>14877907

Under load or what? Checking my processes right now steam open and minimized is only taking about 40mb which is perfectly reasonable.

>>14876773

>if you actually owned your games

You (everyone) always forget that Valve changed "you own game" to "you subscribe to play games" because you they got sued because buyers can't resale games on steam.

>Are your friend to retarded to connect to a server manually?

Yes? Also enjoy registering tons of others services to play mp games with no dedicated servers.

>They are shit

They are good for easy accessing game guides. Not gonna say discussions any good, never sit there.

>>14877907

>>14877898

any application that includes integrated web browsers for muh web views steamwebhelper.exe is automatically garbage developed by some nudev.

>>14876494

<There are games in the store i don't like!

>Are you forced to buy them?

A bigger issue is that they are constantly on the edge of arbitrarily dropping the b&hammer on random titles. They're kind of like YouTube, where content creators can never know what to expect next and only the safe, utter trash titles' developers can lay back worry-free.

>MP just werks, no fees like for console MP

This is normal, not a positive.

>Integrated game specific forums

Which are generally terrible, although sometimes you can find good guides, but never through Steam, only through Google linking to Steam. Which links to the biggest issue with Steam as a platform, a total shit user experience. I don't understand why every single damn thing takes so long to load, especially search takes forever. The UI is awful, stupid shit you'd never use is often easily accessible, while for things you might need you have to click through menus, or worse yet, webpages. The chat was for the longest time untouched since the earliest versions of it, now it has "offline messages" which don't fucking work properly, still no option to enable chat history, no invisible mode, no p2p file sharing, gay ass linkfilter that they arbitrarily apply, paid emoticons, and a lack of any kind of customization. Also the friends list slots are paid, you get more slots by increasing your level, which generally costs money.

>No need to hunt down patches

>Can easily install mods

This is good, but again it can allow Valve to arbitrarily apply censorship or gay shit like paid mods.

I get OCD about achievements and end up playing games just to get them. More my failing than Steams, but since you can't turn them off I stopped using it and switched to GOG.

>>14877573

If they can pull off this theme where it would be unprofitable to put broken/assetflip games in store then in theory it would be worth it. Selfmoderation for a system big as this is the only way really.

>>14876494

Steam removed support for Windows 2000 a few years ago. Soon Steam will remove support for Windows XP. Many old games can only run well on these older OSs and so in time many games on steam won't actually work.

I developed an autistic obsession with gameplay hours to the point I felt like non-steam games were a waste of time since it wasn't logged

mostly over it now

>>14878206

Even the best webdevs are still cancerous, the format itself has gotten worse and worse since javascript.

>>14878280

>dropping the b&hammer on random titles

That's really interesting thing that i didn't heard that they made banned games unaccessable to anyone who buyed it before pilling it out of store. Only complains were when developers updated games with patches that removes content.

Who in their right mind makes a thread to defend something and attack/ridicule people who have a problem with it?

A) People who are paid to do it

B) People who are emotionally invested in people involved in the thing

>>14876507

Steam sales were going downhill way before they added refunds.

>>14877393

>dude reductionism lmao

We're talking about products and business practices faggot

>>14876507

that's because i own all the games i wanted now. it's not rocket surgery

>>14878606

>Let's be real here, all that people that say they not use steam they are either lying or trying to bait.

Wrong.

Some people here just pirate everything.

>>14878606

GoG, physical copies and piracy suits my needs for now and I'm finding out about more alternatives too like Playism and Gamejolt

>>14877403

>no shills

>obvious shill thread

How to make steam good.

>Get rid of DRM

>Clean up the marketplace

>Make features like a streaming service, mp3 player, and big picture mode a optional install.

>Get rid of the fourms all together

>Allow adult games in a separate category that accounts under 18 can't access or be gifted to

>Make patch versions selectable and optional

>Reduce the cut Valve gets severely to 10% of sales MAXI would do 5% but considering server costs and employee pay

>Disallow devs from banning users from games they purchased, only special cases are allowed (hacking mainly)

>Optimize and clean the code

>Ability to add gifs to avatars like every modern fourm allows

>More generous refunds

>Disallow DRM

<Maybe let users optionally install it, but will not provide it automatically

>UI tweaks

>Get rid of trading cards and allow users to have all of the emoticons and backgrounds associated with their game if purchased.

<Or do away with backgrounds and emoticons alltogether

<Maybe Custom backgrounds

>Allow more program customization

<Or better yet, if I really wanted to dream, go open source

>Make sales good again

>If developers comply with all of the above and include drm free dedicated servers and emoticons/backgrounds for additional cut (less so with backgrounds/emoticons)

>have a small dedicated team for quality assurance

>add donation button for modders and developers

>the more memory games take, the bigger cut Steam takes to encourage devs to actually optimize their game

>add /me back

There I made it decent.

Reminder that the only people who hate Valve are people who don't realize that Gaben had his arm twisted by (((Todd Howard))) into trying paid mods, and buttblasted faggots who are still made about that one yuri VN getting removed.

Also for letting users optionally install DRM i mean shit like uPlay or Origin. If companies don't want to abide to this then they don't need to be there.

Also, could you make steam partially opensource for people who just want to tweak it(UI, sounds, adding/removing features) but keep everything else closed so you would get jewed by other companies

>>14876494

The problem I have with Steam is the problem I have with the nature of digital distribution, and also the lack of meaningful competition. It should follow that because certain costs, such as the cost of physical distribution or producing physical copies, are eliminated for digital distribution platforms, that the savings these products accrue ought be passed on to the consumer. This is not the case. Instead, what happens is that, because the publisher is pressured by brick and mortar outlets to keep digital and physical prices consistent, the consumer ends up paying for their digital products at inflated prices.

>b-but what about steam sales

As far as I am aware, the publisher is never obligated to sell their product for less than the MSRP, and I doubt that Steam can (or would want to) enforce some kind of regulation that would force publishers to place a permanent price decrease on their games. This means that, for an indefinite amount of time, most games will remain within a stable and high price range and will very rarely fall below a determined cutoff point. In other words, products on Steam have much longer lifespans than their physical counterparts because, while a physical copy will quickly fall in price, as a result of the depreciation of physical goods and the simple fact that consumers can resell their unwanted physical copies on a second hand market, the digital copy will retain its value indefinitely, and any price fluctuations happen only when doing so can benefit the platform itself or the publisher.

Couple this with the fact that Steam is a monopoly of sorts,　and it can be understood that the platform has a sort of stranglehold on consumers. If you don't like the price on Steam, where are you going to go? GOG? Origin? UPlay? Amazon and other online retailers tend to sell Steam keys rather than DRM free digital copies. Physical PC games are non-existent. The point is that because there really isn't much competition, Steam can get away with some fucked up practices and pass them off as "savings for the people" when it produces calculated and periodic sales.

DRM.

>>14878991

>remove forums

>gif avatars for forums

lil' contradiction there friend

>>14879009

There are way more reasons to hate Valve than those

>Popularizing PC gaming with normalfags

>Creating a near monopoly on PC gaming

>Not caring about gaming in the first place (Gabe joined the industry after seeing Doom outselling Windows 95)

>The games they made were over glorified tech demos to show off their engines

>Popularizing lootboxes and cosmetic microtransactions

>>14878695

Just because you do doesn't mean the sales haven't diminished in quality.

>>14876494

>rational discussion means you're not allowed to say anything bad

What is this, reddit?

>>14878991

>Get rid of DRM

Not gonna happen

>Clean up the marketplace

>Make features like a streaming service, mp3 player, and big picture mode a optional install.

Nigga what?

>Get rid of the fourms all together

Why

>Allow adult games in a separate category that accounts under 18 can't access or be gifted to

Aggre

>Make patch versions selectable and optional

Devs can do that already, Also there is depot downloader (separate tool, but you can do same without it), but i don't know how or if it's that useful

>Reduce the cut Valve gets severely to 10% of sales MAXI would do 5% but considering server costs and employee pay

Not gonna happen

>Disallow devs from banning users from games they purchased, only special cases are allowed (hacking mainly)

Should be like that, like how it'sdone for CSGO or TF2. Only bans on servers should be allowed.

>Optimize and clean the code

They are going to update interface, maybe optimize steam itself in the process

>Ability to add gifs to avatars like every modern fourm allows

Animated avatars are cancer.

>Disallow DRM

Nigga what?

<Maybe let users optionally install it, but will not provide it automatically

Nigga what?

>UI tweaks

They are going to make new interface, or just migrate steam to their own Panorama UI framework.

>Get rid of trading cards and allow users to have all of the emoticons and backgrounds associated with their game if purchased.

I would want to be able to pay for games with someone else's money

<Or do away with backgrounds and emoticons alltogether

<Maybe Custom backgrounds

Cancer as gif avatars. Also enjoy your porno background,

>Allow more program customization

Which customization? Themes are already a thing

<Or better yet, if I really wanted to dream, go open source

Not gonna happen. You know why.

>If developers comply with all of the above and include drm free dedicated servers and emoticons/backgrounds for additional cut (less so with backgrounds/emoticons)

Didn't understand you

>have a small dedicated team for quality assurance

They already have a SMALL team for it, lol

>add donation button for modders and developers

This. FUCKING THIS. FUCKING THIS. FUCKING THIS

The problem is that they will not do that if they can't make cuts on it

>the more memory games take, the bigger cut Steam takes to encourage devs to actually optimize their game

Nigga waht?

>add /me back

Not gonna happen, but better chat would be nice.

>>14879062

>Spanish is in different font

OK

>>14876494

>no underage redditors trying to fit in please

But anon that's what you are

>>14879228

Except he's not even trying to fit in, he's making it abundantly clear that's what he is.

>>14876494

Store quality tanked with greenlight. Full of shovelware and unfinished early-access games.

The "social" aspect updated became a form of epeen waving; account levels and badges turned the community into a sort of game. Steam is suppose to be a game platform. The digital item market was pure fucking cancer for games and just adds more shit to pull in idiots and whales. Know that video of streamers sperging over e-items? That.

Steam is drm, but that's understandable until you get yet another one on top of it.

Seasonal sales became far worse.

Reminder that Steam threatens mod creators to only host on steam workshop

Reminder that Steam at one point promised to never permit third party Digital Rights Management in the store as their own personal guarantee that the "value of service" out performed piracy

Reminder that valve tried to force gamesbanana to load everything through workshop

Fuck steam on principle. That being said, I still use steam, but my solution is to screenshot my game library so if steam ever does go bankrupt and tells everyone to go fuck themselves, I'll have a list of games to pirate, and proof of purchase.

>>14879310

>thread subject

>>14876494

It's a problem since it has a monopoly on digital distribution, although that's more of an industry wife issue rather than just strictly valve.

>>14877037

>ST EA M

This doesn't even make a bit of sense. Ever heard of Origin?

That you can't turn off achievement notifications is a big minus. Achievements are truly of the demiurge.

>>14876961

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that disclaimer is conditional to the use of the service they are providing. Because they provide access to property that doesnt belong to themselves either, they arent in a position to cut and run. Steam is double-dipping the pockets of both producer and consumer, and they really can't afford to piss off both because consumers will sue the producers if said producers will not provide them another means to access content they paid for, and the producers will in turn be driven to a class-action lawsuit to sue for damages as a result.

>>14879434

Doesn't disabling oerlay also disable achievement notifiations?

>>14876494

I don't even use it anymore idk y i spent 20k on steam levels a couple years ago thought it was a funny meme not really laughing anymore everybody on it are just cancer

>>14879575

Hmm, I'll try. Google told me I couldn't disable the achievement notifications a while back, but maybe I can, and google is just in on the demiurgic plot to push achievements.

>>14879437

>I gotta ask how.

enjoy your porno gifs on avatars

>trash most of the time and filled with retards.

Then don't use it, lol.

But seriously it's a great way to see game community with few clicks away where for regular forums you should search for them and use regular or steam browser to browse them, and also register to enter discussion.

Steam discussions are a great example of baby first steps into game community, and it's good for these reasons because it gives enough information most players needs.

>Make them removable via install or in options

It would just complicate program just to satisfy optionsfags. Also being unable to plsy music because you didn't place checkmark is a way to go (ironic smile) One way to make steam less bloat is to transfer some data into web.

>What I mean by disallowing drm is shit like Uplay or Origin.

That's interesting but it again would complicate thing because some games even provide custom anticheats like punkbuster.

Also antimonopoly, They will get sued if they will put pressure on competitors like that.

>Ok say a game is 50GB.

Steam is a good platform to publish games because devs shouldn't think about something like that in the first place. Valve just streamlined game publishers expirience by providing just the price cuts and nothing more to consider.

"We will cut this percentage of your sales, in return you can use everything steam platform provides without thinking on details"

>>14879597

Googled right now. there is this.

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/617329920710103124/

But disabling overlay and method higher only disable steam notfications, not the ingame achievement notifications.

a singular massive digital distribution platform was going to crop up at some point or another, so at least it was a privately owned company that got it and not EA or tencent

also fuck steam greenlight

For real, an equivalent to steam would have happened eventually and the company running it could have been a lot worse. I'm less worried about what steam is now as I am about what it will be in twenty years. Most of the negative aspects and potential direction of steam seems less because valve has some evil plot and more related to the post property culture that we're headed towards.

>>14876494

>"No shill accusations"

>Proceeds to shill

OP…I think you might be a faggot.

>>14879849

I fucking swear carlos, if you keep up this bullshit im gonna send some of those honduran maras after you.

Steam was a decent digital distribution platform, but post 2010 it really went down the shitter.

>F2P TF2

>The marketplace. Microtransactions. In-game items at hugely inflated prices.

>Badges

>Achievements

>Trading cards

>Profile levels

>Multiple seasonal sales with per year with dumb promotional schemes to encourage more spending

>Greenlight

>Early Access

>Non-game software

>Recommended games I don't give a shit about that simply will not go away

Fuck steam.

>>14879945

>F2P TF2

>Steam

Ok

>>14879977

you do realise that the steam market was built on the success of microtransactions in f2p tf2, right?

That, and TF2 being "free" attracted a really shit playerbase that spread throughout steam. Same for Dota.

>>14880033

You already have second point with microtransaction and etc so the first one is redundant and also have no explanations.

Also tf2 is not part of steam.

>>14880119

>tf2 is not part of steam

what brain damage do you have?

>>14880139

Are you retarded or what?

TF2 is just a game on steam, not some integral part of it as community market or curators. It did it's impact on it, not gonna argue that.

>>14880122

>x is not bad because we could have y instead

Nah buddy, steam is pure shit no matter how you sugarcoat it, valvekikes deserved bankruptcy after releasing HL 2 ep 1

>>14876494

><They spy on you

>What else other than the DNS leak has been confirmed?

It's in the fucking privacy policy, you mong!

https://store.steampowered.com/privacy_agreement/

>3.3 Other Data You Explicitly Submit

>We will collect and process Personal Data whenever you explicitly provide it to us or send it as part of communication with others on Steam, e.g. in Steam Community Forums, chats, or when you provide feedback or other user generated content. This data includes:

>Information that you post, comment or follow in any of our Content and Services;

>Information sent through chat;

>Information you provide when you request information or support from us or purchase Content and Services from us, including information necessary to process your orders with the relevant payment merchant or, in case of physical goods, shipping providers;

>Information you provide to us when participating in competitions, contests and tournaments or responding to surveys, e.g. your contact

They collect more data, that's just the most damning. If you don't want Steam to track you, you can delete your account and lose access to all your games:

>6.3. Right to Erasure.

>You have the right to obtain deletion by us of Personal Data concerning you by deleting your Steam User Account via the Steam support page.

>As a result of deleting your Steam User Account, you will lose access to Steam services, including the Steam User Account, Subscriptions and game-related information linked to the Steam User Account and the possibility to access other services you are using the Steam User Account for.

>>14880165

>community market and curators, both fairly new in steam's overall life cycle, are integral to steam

>TF2, an 11 year old game created by the creators of Steam, around which the community market was designed, and which was so influential to the growth of the platform that it is in the top 10 games played on steam to this day, is not integral

I think it's safe to say you're the retarded one.

>>14880170

And whom would you rather do this?

EA? Ubisoft? Microsoft?

>>14880210

>It did it's impact on it, not gonna argue that.

Do you need TF2 installed for steam to function? No? Then shut you stupid mouth you retard

>>14880227

No one, the form of the service itself is the problem. It should be:

>go to games website

>buy game

>download game

>install it as you wish

>re-download it later as you wish

>>14880268

It's to complicated to work that way really.

There are stores that sell products from different distributors already in most industry markets, why digital game market should be different?

>>14876494

Steam's a clunky piece of shit interface that barely functions and their entire business model is founded on doing absolutely nothing and letting the "community" make everything for them.

It's a disgusting business model on the whole and only persists because of lazy idiots that don't know better, much like every other industry in this painfully noncompetitive market.

>>14880268

>"Go to games website"

What you mean like Steam?

>"Buy game"

As above.

>"Download game"

>"Install it as you wish"

>"Re-download it later as you wish"

You're describing steam. So essentially you want steam but you don't want it to be steam.

>>14880311

basically

>>14880358

Are you dense? You need the steam client to install steam games, therefore limiting how you install the game. You also need to sign in to steam once a month or else valve will lock you out of your games.

>>14877888

I don't get this "muh patches" meme. how fucking braindead do you have to be to not be able to download and install a patch in a few minutes? and steam makes it worse, since you can't roll back. many games like battlefield 2 or supreme commander 2 are useless on the latest patch.

the best autopatcher was invented by ubisoft, their pre-uplay games could patch themselves on startup. took a literal second to check and then run.

>>14880568

It is annoying for some games where you have to install patch 1.01, 1.02, 1.2, 1.21, 1.3 in order to get the 1.0 version up to date. Auto-patching in general has allowed the cancer known as early access to become mainstream, since even retards can keep their games up to date.

>patch themselves on startup

This is the best system.

>>14880268

Instead it should be like this:

>go to dev website

>buy their game, get the key, unlock downloadinf the game and use the key

>>14878991

>Reduce the cut Valve gets severely to 10% of sales

if those fucking devs dont like it, they can go and sell their shit in walmart.

>>14880589

I don't remember the last game that did this. by the time steam became big cumulative patches were already standard.

>>14878420

>I developed an autistic obsession with gameplay hours to the point I felt like non-steam games were a waste of time since it wasn't logged

I used to have this obsession with Xfire

>>14880694

that's steams doing, not GOG. it's monopolizing tactics.

I hate it for the effect it had on the PC landscape, if Steam and overhyped HL shit flopped, all these no-standard normalfags and redditors from /r/pcmasterrace who've never touched a videogame before 7th gen would have never joined, gay fads like FOTM e-sport online shit or pretentious story-based indies would never exist and many monetization practices would've either just stayed on consoles or never existed. All the casuals who came over also killed all of the niches that made PC different, like RTS, or actual sims. Nowadays it's just console gaming with good grafix, or maybe even big boy mobile gaming at this point.

>>14880122

Without Steam and overhyped HL shit, big kike companies would have never considered PC profitable in first place.

>>14876494

>No shill accusations

>proceeds to shill for Steam

Look at all those replies you got. Aren't you happy? Have another.

>No need to hunt down patches

That's not always the case, some games (especially older ones) have poor performance and/or compatibility with newer systems and often require unofficial patches.

>implying indie devs could pay for the bandwidth needed to let people download from their own servers

>>14882752

>you can do this with literally any other game and valve games require port forwarding to play with friends which is a massive pain in the ass the first time you need to do it with a million possible complications, that's outright false

I don't know about the port forwarding thing but I think he just means the ease of playing with friends is in the sense that you just both boot up the game and invite each other in the client, not having to deal with retarded accounts for each and every game where you have to use shitty search functions to find a person, et cetera et cetera.

>neither are patches preserved, hence content can and is actually being removed like in older gta games having songs and shit deleted with no way to even get an older patch back

You can generally get them back from the database and it really isn't something you can fault Valve and steam for, Rockstar didn't want to pay for the song rights but they did want to sell GTA San Andreas digitally, if they didn't do that they'd just have to take it off the store. You still can get the songs from just using a downgrader though.

>it's objectively easier on a non-steam game than a steam game to install mods in all but unique one-off cases

Generally it's the same with most games aside from unique one off cases for me to be honest. The only time I could remember me having complications with modding a Steam game was when I wanted to mod Oblivion and a utility called Wyre Bash didn't like the fact that the default Steam game install location was in program files, which triggers Windows UAC and doesn't give enough rights to the program to work in the Oblivion directory or something so I had to move it elsewhere.

>>14882776

>I don't know about the port forwarding thing but I think he just means the ease of playing with friends is in the sense that you just both boot up the game and invite each other in the client, not having to deal with retarded accounts for each and every game where you have to use shitty search functions to find a person, et cetera et cetera.

you don't have to do this in older games and games that have accounts usually still require you to make one regardless of steam, sometimes you can link them which rarely does anything

>it really isn't something you can fault Valve and steam for

it is because they didn't take measures against it and still aren't, who removes content from their games is irrelevant because it's on valve's platform

>Generally it's the same with most games aside from unique one off cases for me to be honest

sure but i mean the added unnecessary layer of drm can get in the way of shit, not the other way around

>>14882787

>you don't have to do this in older games and games that have accounts usually still require you to make one regardless of steam, sometimes you can link them which rarely does anything

Never found it "usually" personally, most games generally use the Steamworks API to use your Steam account as a form of identification.

>it is because they didn't take measures against it

What measures can or would they take? If they decided to give everyone access to older patches that could mean legal issues with record companies that will ream your asshole every step of the way and would make game publishers probably quit the platform. The only people at fault are those who develop the games because they are the ones that licensed the songs and have to decide if they want to renew them or not.

>sure but i mean the added unnecessary layer of drm can get in the way of shit, not the other way around

Yes, true, but I never generally found it a issue, but Steam can cause complications with certain old titles.

I will list an objective reason as to why I don't like this. The first one, is that it is FORCED upon you. In what way? Whenever I purchase a physical PC game, I am forced to connect to the internet, I am then obligated to download and install Steam so the game can be activated and the rest of the game can be downloaded. If you aren't smart enough to tell why this is wrong, then you are biased, plain and simple.

I will list more when I get home.

>>14876494

>Will never happen or they get sued into oblivion

This is subjective, you don't if people will actually sue. There has been people who has had their accounts banned for cheating in a single game. Ban them from the servers, sure, but delete their Steam account where he has purchased other games? Doesn't sound right to me. So this argument has no validity.

>>14882817

>This is subjective

The alternative is to get cucked by a corporation.Also, there's always someone that ends up suing or even some organization can come up and sue even if they have not been affected.

>>14882817

>i need to be online

Why do you people assume if steam didn't exist you could go back to physical copies without any DRM?

Like other anons pointed out if steam didn't exist there would be another service taking its place which would probably be worse (think origin or the blizzshit).

You will never get physical-no-online games back, they are gone forever.

>>14882817

>I will list an objective reason as to why I don't like this. The first one, is that it is FORCED upon you. In what way? Whenever I purchase a physical PC game, I am forced to connect to the internet, I am then obligated to download and install Steam so the game can be activated and the rest of the game can be downloaded. If you aren't smart enough to tell why this is wrong, then you are biased, plain and simple.

Very true, I had a horrible experience with trying to install Portal 2 from disc, although you can consider this a mixed blessing as digital means you can still play the game even if the disc is scratched or lost.

>>14878394

Indeed. Having the means to self-moderate is good. But it should be part of Vale doing some moderation and filtering of it's own, not a way of shirking responsibility.

They make stacks from Steam. They should be able to afford employing people to analyse what is going up on their service. If there is indeed too many games, maybe they should consider increasing the difficulty of getting games onto the market place. They should have the game perform a test run on their machines (a potato, a few "average" machines based on user hardware statistics and a God machine). Instantly this filters out games that have no executables or require further patching to launch.

>>14880645

>being so tech illiterate you can't fucking google a forum dedicated to a specific game

The point is that you don't fucking need to google in the first place.

>>14883108

>The point is that you don't fucking need to google in the first place.

The point is you don't need Steam for game specific forums dumb fuck.

>>14883138

You say it like game forums dying because of steam.

>>14883544

And you're a retard who thinks steam doing basic shit like having discussion threads (which are almost always worse than actual dedicated forums) is a selling point when it isn't

You're a Gen Z retard who doesn't know how to use the internet.

>>14876494

>For Steam

Its existence has paved the way for the resurgence of PC games in recent years, we owe it the fact that nips and 3rd parties release multi platform games on PC now and that it is considered a viable platform for all type of vidya not just specific genres like RTS

Has more or less centralized the PC community

Sales

You can make real money making/selling in game items through the community market

<Against Steam

DRM

The storefront is a clusterfuck. Their one size fits all isn't cutting it now since they no longer sell just games, they need to have a better and more specialized way to present music, movies, software and TV shows.

You don't own your games, you just have a license to them and this will backfire someday, maybe not today maybe not tomorrow but at some point one crazy dev/publisher or even Valve themselves will do something draconian and we'll get fucked because of it.

Has more or less centralized the PC community

Valve has a monopoly on the PC gaming market and as we saw with the recent weeb games debacle it doesn't paint a good picture. At least there's GOG but unless Valve fucks big time I doubt GOG will ever get to that level.

The size of Steam has made it really hard to find the cream of the crop when it comes to most games and since Steam tends to promote mostly AAA games and indie hits there's little middle ground and it will get worse.

The fact that steam throws sales so often has devalued the overall price of games in general. It doesn't affect AAA devs and publishers much but it does indies

It has more or less killed the physical release market of PC games since even when games are released physically you still need steam to play them.

>>14876494

You'll never have a reasonable conversation with the average retarded anon about this subject. They complain all day about games pandering to normalfags and then on the rare occasion a game comes out which doesn't they pirate it anyway. Surprisr surprise devs learn from this and make games with actually paying customers in mind.

>>14876507

Probably because

A. They stopped doing those shitty flash sales that fooled you into thinking you were getting a good deal

B. You already have whatever you want.

>>14883562

So you say that steam SHOULDN'T have forums? For what reason? It's not a selling point it's just one of those thing that make life easier.

>>14876569

>Making money is Jewish.

They haven't fallen for the stupid kike plot of making vidya the shittiest fucking thing in the world with all their non binary gender fluid, nigger history revisionism, feminist empowerment, whiney "gamers are toxic" bullshit.

Valve is stupid as fuck sometimes, Steam sucks sometimes, and Gabe needs to lose some fucking weight, but God can you actually tell me gaming would be better off if Blizzard or EA or MS or UBI were in their shoes??

I much prefer steam to the alternatives, and I also prefer steam to having no games on pc; which is what it was like until Valve saw a pc market and used Steam to fill that space.

>>14884155

You're supposed to hate Steam and everything anon that's the rules. Fuck having a reasonable argument about anything on /v, everything sucks, everything is shit, wanting to grow a business is jewish, paying for shit makes your a corporate shill and you should pirate everything.

Fuck game devs for wanting to feed their families and fuck publishers for enabling them to make games and wanting to turn a profit.

Also fuck buying anything because is not like this entire industry was formed on the backbone of capitalism.

>>14884365

I continue to ponder on this very autistically from times to time whenever I have an economic discussion. For some reason, the hobby of video games always comes up. By now, even most normalfags realize that cash is worthless and the Federal Reserve needs to be abolished. The most valuable currency that we have as men is Time.

Human beings are sacrificing their time to make these virtual worlds that takes hundreds of hours averaging around 4 years to make a competent game.

How should these developers get paid?

Who will feed them and shelter them and guarantee their future?

If they are compensated, then how much?

What currency should they be compensated when cash inevitably dies, gold? Silver?

Pirates will argue that when a game releases it is ok to pirate because it is not theft, you aren't removing a physical object, but getting a copy that is infinite. On the other hand I have a problem when developers say that when I lend a copy to a friend, that is considered a lost sale. Because that individual didn't pay to have the experience.

Then again, when making money is the sole factor of design then it is not done with the artistic intention of a bunch of artists, but a carefully tailored product invented to make as much profit as possible.

There has to be a balanced. Somehow these designers have to be paid for the time they put in on their projects, release the product, and let as much people as possible do what they want with the software, except make money off of it. If there is something even better that you guys have come up with, let me know.

Valve protects anti-anime harassment squads on their forums and bans people for defending themselves against them. That was enough for me to drop Steam after 14 years.

>>14876494

I use Steam because it's convenient. And cheap.

And I honestly couldn't care less if someone here hates it with a burning passion of a million suns. Works good enough for me.

>You can't play games is Valve goes down

Yes you can. It's called Offline mode you dumbfuck

Well literally only thing it is good at is multiplayer.

Cloud saves are nice but they have tendency to destroy your save game instead of preserving it.

Workshop is also pretty much good only for Cities:Skylines. For any other game you will still need other modding tools and use of outside sites. You might as well just use the outside ones.

Well patches are nice but torrents not only provide that, they also allow you to choose game version.

>Will never happen or they get sued into oblivion

And they will win because you agreed for them to do this. It will hurt their sales but they won't face any legal troubles.

>>14888194

>cheap

Torrents are cheaper. GoG is as cheap as steam and much better service.

>Yes you can. It's called Offline mode you dumbfuck

You will lose all your games if Valve goes down. Offline mode works for 3 days. Later you won't be able to turn them on. At the same time you have 0 backup of games besides Steam servers.

You will also lose a game version unless developer is nice. You can usually just get newest version of the game. Enjoy broken mods.

Shills aren't even trying nowadays

>>14888226

>You will lose all your games if Valve goes down. Offline mode works for 3 days. Later you won't be able to turn them on.

Strange how it works for me, despite not connecting to the internet in 2 weeks

>At the same time you have 0 backup of games besides Steam servers.

You can copy it on your HDD, numbnuts

Vastly prefer GOG to Steam, actually. But both are acceptable compared to consoles.

>>14888538

12 year olds not welcome.

>>14888566

>garbage is acceptable to shit

>>14888670

Gaming as of late has been in pretty bad shape, so yea, pretty much. I'd rather deal with Steam and GOG than the big three. What would be your preferred gaming situation on PC? We go back to physical games and managing our games manually? Not trying to be funny, this is a real question.

>>14888566

>can't own games

>have to rely on ports for the entire library

>all the ports are awful

Enjoy your eternity of juggling which installers to keep as you juggle the choice of one 20gb installer vs 8 others

gaben pls xd

>>14888691

>can't own games

Depends on the game, some are DRM-free on Steam and MOST games on GOG are DRM-free as well, there has been a weird trend of requiring GOG Galaxy to play certain games.

>have to rely on ports for entire library

>all the ports are awful

Respectfully disagree here. A lot of the ports I've played are pretty good or can actually be fixed if need be. Games like San Andreas are so easy to downgrade and mod despite the Steam DRM that I'd take that over dealing with a PS2 or any other console. I think you're overstating the issues of Steam and GOG, personally.

>>14876494

>/v/

>rational discussion

Unless it's porn, it won't happen here.

>>14888682

>What would be your preferred gaming situation on PC?

Not this? You make it sound as though if either Steam or GoG existed we would only have consoles. I would answer what you're trying to say if it made any sense.

>>14888729

It's literally in the license, if you don't have a tangible copy your copy is ethereal at best and at worst tied to the whims of whoever you bought it from to decide when you can and cant play it.

>>14889631

neither*

>>14889631

PC gaming was in a bad shape before steam. Many publishers thought piracy means it's not worth releasing on PC unless you load it up with hardcore DRM (starforce, securom etc.).

Steam made PC viable to publishers again and did away with the default DRM and replaced it with steam "DRM" which is no DRM at all basically.

So yeah, without steam PC gaming would look pretty shit right about now.

>>14889648

But if I buy a game on GOG or Steam and it's DRM-free, then burn it on a disc, then what's the difference between that and owning a physical console game? Don't modern console games have to download massive patches to even be played or have some other form of online verification? At least I get my mods way easier on PC than consoles.

>>14889631

As far as I'm concerned, without Steam or GOG, I certainly wouldn't really be gaming that much so at least to me, yes, without Steam or GOG my only option would be consoles.

>>14888729

>Many publishers thought piracy means it's not worth releasing on PC unless you load it up with hardcore DRM

So retards got in a panic and now it "saved" PC gaming? Cmon fag even you know that PC gaming wouldn't have died without either Steam or GoG.

>So yeah, without steam PC gaming would look pretty shit right about now.

In what way? You act as though there wouldn't be devs who genuinely enjoyed producing shit without the need to turn into kikes and bloat their products with DRM and other sorts of cancer.

>>14892644

>I certainly wouldn't really be gaming that much so at least to me, yes, without Steam or GOG my only option would be consoles.

That's your problem.

>>14880568

Do you even remember what getting a patch was like before Steam and other major online platforms?

>Try to play game

>Sorry, you can't connect to server because you're using an older version of the software, please update

>Have to figure out what version of the software the server is using

>Then have to hunt down the specific patch

>If it's not available on the studio/publisher's website (as sometimes happened for some fucking reason) then you have to search elsewhere and hope you don't end up downloading a virus

>Apply patch

>In a few months they change to the latest version again and this cycle continues

Pople forget that Steam's original purpose was to make it easier to keep everyone playing Valve games up-to-date and on the same software version. To remove the headache of patching games yourself and getting you the patch easily and getting you playing the damn game faster.

>>14893458

In current year even without Steam updating servers would likely be a lot easier than it was then. The problem is that Steam overgrew its usefulness and became bloatware.

>>14893410

Maybe my eyes are going bad, but is she holding the fucking metal part?

>>14893479

This is true. With internet speeds today being so good that discs are slowly becoming obselete Steam has outlived it's usefulness and now acts as this strange middleman that no one wants. But when Steam was "in it's prime" it was the best way to play games because of ease of version control. But now it is just a hoop to jump through with it's login and mobile authenticator and the infinite "Restart Steam for this tiny patch" pop-ups.

>>14893530

Just disgusted. Didn't know /v/ turned into /v/ - Valve Cucks.

>>14893497

Why do you need antivirus software? I haven't had a virus in years.

>>14893536

Understandable. I, personally, do like >>14876525

>>14893539

Apparently some niggers do, such as >>14893458

Alternatively he could also be one of those dumb niggers that thinks every comment on a torrent site claiming a specific torrent is a virus is true,

>>14876494

>What else other than the DNS leak has been confirmed?

Explain, if you send your dns through a TOR tunnel how exactly does this "leak" work? Is it like the "leak" of literally every application that uses dns since dns is unencrypted and can be intercepted/spied upon in transit via MITM?

>>14893587

>not wanting to bring steamfags to the surface so you can call them faggots

It's like you don't enjoy telling retards that they are retarded or something.

>>14893587

You realize you can't have a thread deleted just because you don't like it,right?

>>14893536

I wish i had dumped scat HL threads.

>>14894277

*on HL threads.

>>14876507

>The sales have been more lackluster each and every year since the one christmas sale and the introduction of refunds,you cannot dispute this.

They haven't been good since that one summer sale when they were giving out free shit for actually playing your games anyways.

>>14890039

In the choice between securom and starforce steamworks seemed minimal and offered additional features and convenience. Gaben famously stated piracy is a service problem, this is not true, its a price problem, and you can't beat free. You can incentivize purchases thru convenience, but the only service problem ever relevant to valve was the one which they were competing with the physical market over.

>>14893491

She's not. Do not ever look away from an iron in use, only when it is rested in its holder should you be looking away, and only when it is turned off should you leave your position.

>>14895026

Yeah let's make 8chan into a "safezone™"

>>14896340

>but it'd be totally different landscape.

A better one.

>I'd have to buy a console for games like Hyperdimension Neptunia.

You wouldn't "have" to buy it. You act like consumer demands don't mean shit anymore.

>Never said it was your problem.

I'll rephrase it then. You're retarded if you buy a console for the exclusives.

>You seem to not understand that not all games on Steam have a ton of DRM or any at all

Except they do when the license for Steam clearly states you can have your gaming privledged revoked. The fact that there's a small amount of games that aren't isn't much of an argument when Steam pressures devs to make their games full of DRM.

>but love games like Neptunia and the fact I can get them at all on PC.

And yet you're to much of a weak willed faggot to refuse to purchase them on better grounds?

>if you like a company's product and can afford to, why not support them?

Because they fall in line with kike practices? It's like you refuse to understand this concept.

>I thought I've made it clear that I prefer GOG over Steam

GoG's more acceptable for certain. But even having a Steam account is pretty cancerous.

>>14897284

>without steam pc gaming today would be better XDDD

are you underage? do you have any idea how shitty DRM was before steam?

>>14897307

>DRM is less shitty when it's monopolized

Nice try goy.

Steam has always had shitty business practices, I still remember being pissed I had to install a program just to launch HL2. This was a game they knew would be popular and used it as a way to force Steam into the PC market.

That said they are less shit than other publishers attempts like EA, Rockstar and Blizzard but still more shit than actually good online stores like GoG.

I think over all they are ok, it could be worse but it could be better, 30% is a fucking huge cut but they have so much market share devs accept it.

>>14897339

>Yeah you have no idea how much worse DRM was before the steam "DRM" replaced those.

You mean not at all? Shit was piss easy to bypass.

>The steam copy protection consists of a single file that is always the same

So then obviously we should be supporting it? You can't even keep a basic argument consistent. Nice try steam shill.

Does this shit not work anymore?

https://steamdb.info/calculator/

>>14897284

>buzzwords and ideology cancer

>>14897378

Valve updated privacy setting and included games publicity setting, with it being private at default. You now need to change to public for calculator to work.

>>14899137

>he said with no argument and buzzwords

kek

>>14894371

>its a price problem, and you can't beat free. You can incentivize purchases thru convenience

>Reddit-tier spacing

>thru

>Ay yo fre shit mayne

Jesus christ between all the stormfags and niggers it's like i'm actually in the American south.

>>14902666

>satan likes steam

no surprise here

>>14902666

(1)

>>14908722

(11)

>>14897284

>You wouldn't "have" to buy it. You act like consumer demands don't mean shit anymore.

They don't if you're the only one demanding. That said, you know what I mean. If a game is on console then you would have to buy the hardware as a requirement in order to play the game. So, yes, if you've made your mind to get a game, you have to own or go buy the required hardware.

>You're retarded if you buy a console for the exclusives.

Won't disagree here, consoles are the reason I moved to PCs. It's not the perfect solution but it's still miles above any console.

Steam, as bad as it is right now, is a necessary evil. Without it, the Japanese market would of taken another decade to realize that porting their games to PC is a profitable move to themselves and those who doesn't want to buy terrible consoles that play at shitty FPS. Without Valve, the void would of been filled anyways by someone else, who probably has even worse intentions than Valve ever did. As much as I dislike the direction valve has been taking lately, I can't imagine any other of the big publishers/developers doing a better job than Valve.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1666776116200553082

More garbage.

Thx valve.

Based.

Eat a dick and leave.

>>14876494

The main argument against Steam is that you don't ever actually "own" anything you buy on Steam and they have too much control over what you "buy" on their platform.

<they can delete all your gaymes

>Will never happen or they get sued into oblivion

Per their ToS/EULA/etc you are only granted a license that they can choose to not honor at their discretion.

They have permanently banned accounts in the past and reserve the right to restrict anybody's access to the Steam "service", including restricting access to your library, at any time. Good lucking getting enough money and time to sue them and cause enough damage for a policy change, Valve is worth a few billion and has legal defense.

So, no your games aren't "deleted", you just have no access to them or the ability to authenticate games you have installed.

<They spy on you

>What else other than the DNS leak has been confirmed?

VAC scanning processes running on your computer as a form of anti-cheat. which is apparently only ok for Valve as other anti-cheats do this and are scorned as privacy invading

Requiring phone numbers for a decent portion of Steam features is a gateway to tying Steam accounts to real people, SSN for marketplace after a certain amount of transactions. "data gathering"

<There are games in the store i don't like!

>Are you forced to buy them?

Stores are populated, and to an extent controlled by, the people who buy their products.

The games in the store that are shit invite people who like shit.

The games in the store that are social justice invite SJWs.

Once a significant portion the store begins to move in that direction there is an effort to monetize their non-customers with shit nobody likes.

You can already see the cancer growing as Steam has content "misunderstandings" every few months and extremely inconsistent content standards.

Though it always seems to be the work of one "rogue" employee and not the structure of the company that allows it.

>MP just werks, no fees like for console MP

>Can easily play with friends

You can do that with nearly any PC MP game that doesn't have paid dedicated servers. What is LAN. etc.

>No need to hunt down patches

That was only an issue in the past because devs would frequently fold and their obscure patches would vanish. There are several layers of redundancy for that sort of shit now.

>Integrated game specific forums

You mean the old Steam forums or the developer controlled asskissing zones?

>Can easily install mods

Not Steam specific, there are several alternatives to Workshop, etc.

>>14876494

DRM is cancer

>>14914051

This seems to be some retarded contrarianism to me because this means that if they decided to be more closed down and filtered they would eventually not take on games that they don't like (i.e porn games) but the general opinion of /v/ does (again, i.e porn games) which would again make a person such as you shit on them.

>>14914159

I gotta disagree on a few things here,

>Per their ToS/EULA/etc you are only granted a license that they can choose to not honor at their discretion.

This is no different than games were 10, 15 years ago with CD keys for multiplayer access. The publisher and developer could ban your registered account at any time they wished to, and revoke access to your product (or parts of your product, depending on if it was multiplayer only or not). If you are caught cheating on every single game you have ever played on Steam, Valve still does not revoke access to your account, cases where Valve decides to personally ban accounts with their own hand are essentially non existent.

>VAC scanning processes running on your computer as a form of anti-cheat. which is apparently only ok for Valve as other anti-cheats do this and are scorned as privacy invading

All things considered it's essentially impossible to be an anti cheat without scanning the processes and memory of the programs ran on your computer. This was also not different 10, 15 years ago with things like Punkbuster.

>SSN for marketplace after a certain amount of transactions.

If I recall correctly, this is US only and to be compliant with the IRS as Steam Market sales are considered 'income'.

>>14914051

>So what does this mean? It means that the Steam Store is going to contain something that you hate, and don't think should exist. Unless you don't have any opinions, that's guaranteed to happen. But you're also going to see something on the Store that you believe should be there, and some other people will hate it and want it not to exist

This is better than I expected from a company in the current year.

>>14914253

>This is no different than games were 10, 15 years ago with CD keys for multiplayer access. The publisher and developer could ban your registered account at any time they wished to, and revoke access to your product (or parts of your product, depending on if it was multiplayer only or not).

The difference was in most cases you could still install and authenticate the single player game just fine. Your purchase should give you access to a copy of the game you bought, regardless of whatever scant singleplayer content there was. It doesn't give you unlimited access to MP servers.

>If you are caught cheating on every single game you have ever played on Steam, Valve still does not revoke access to your account, cases where Valve decides to personally ban accounts with their own hand are essentially non existent.

Most of the bans I've heard of that were actual account bans were for account selling or spamming but that is still removing access to games you have purchased.

As an example, if you sold your friend a CD key for a game you weren't using anymore the developer wouldn't go out and ban your CD key permanently unless it was being used for several activations and considered a pirated key and even if they did it would only really affect MP content.

>All things considered it's essentially impossible to be an anti cheat without scanning the processes and memory of the programs ran on your computer. This was also not different 10, 15 years ago with things like Punkbuster.

It is still Valve "spying" on you, even if the purpose is for the good of a secured server. I more brought that up because it seems so strange that you can have somebody who is heavily anti-DRM and anti-anti-cheat but will be ok with or even defend Steam even though it is literally both.

I will say that VAC isn't the absolute worst anti-cheat I've had to deal with but I feel like their name and shame tactics with VAC bans on Steam profiles is some retarded tar and feather garbage that they shouldn't be participating in.

>If I recall correctly, this is US only and to be compliant with the IRS as Steam Market sales are considered 'income'.

It is and you need I believe 100 transactions OR over $1000 in trades in one tax year.

I find it disconcerting that Steam needs my SSN and/or phone number for something that was supposed to be a minor part of Steam.

While it most likely won't be used for the purposes of unmasking an otherwise mostly anonymous account it could potentially be used that way, even unintentionally.

>>14914181

This layout is amazing, why can't I have that?

>>14914350

>Most of the bans I've heard of that were actual account bans were for account selling or spamming but that is still removing access to games you have purchased.

>As an example, if you sold your friend a CD key for a game you weren't using anymore the developer wouldn't go out and ban your CD key permanently unless it was being used for several activations and considered a pirated key and even if they did it would only really affect MP content.

Some games, even during 2001 used an account and CD key based system (such as Tribes 2) and your CD key was permanently tied to your account which means your only way to give a friend access to your game is to give them your account, which is no different from giving someone else your Steam account.

>It is still Valve "spying" on you, even if the purpose is for the good of a secured server. I more brought that up because it seems so strange that you can have somebody who is heavily anti-DRM and anti-anti-cheat but will be ok with or even defend Steam even though it is literally both.

<It is still Valve "spying" on you

I didn't say it isn't, but if Steam never existed we still would have anticheat that 'spies on you', I'm not afraid of this because I don't care personally but this is a non-topic of discussion because mutliplayer games would still have anticheat.

<anti-DRM

Again, this is a non-topic of discussion because if Steam never existed we would still have this like we did before digital distribution was a thing. I'd rather take Valve's "DRM" that isn't actually really intended to be DRM as the same crack works for EVERY SINGLE STEAMWORKS BASED GAME (Steamworks being the so-called DRM layer) with some values changed in an INI than we did during the early to mid 2000s like SecuROM and Safedisc.

>I will say that VAC isn't the absolute worst anti-cheat I've had to deal with but I feel like their name and shame tactics with VAC bans on Steam profiles is some retarded tar and feather garbage that they shouldn't be participating in.

I'd say it's the absolute best for me because I have never had any issues with VAC, ever. On public bans, the only thing I can say is just don't cheat. I'm also pretty sure that the VAC ban doesn't show if you have a private account. Cheaters are shitty people IMO and I don't care if they get named and shamed, especially to an online anonymous name. It doesn't matter at all to me but this is an opinion based thing so I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

>I find it disconcerting that Steam needs my SSN and/or phone number for something that was supposed to be a minor part of Steam.

With the SSN I can totally understand them but with the phone number this is also opinion based, as the phone number is an additional layer of security for games and your account.

The only way I can think of an otherwise anonymous account being unmasked would be if Valve had a major data breach, but even then I kinda doubt it considering that basically everything should be encrypted.

>>14877430

Kindly do the needful and suggest a distribution method that:

1. Makes sure the developers are compensated for each consumption of their product

2. Offers users off-site backup of their library and saves

>muh GoG

is flawed and based on the honor system, and its packages constantly used for piracy

>>14917079

>Some games[…]used an account and CD key based system (such as Tribes 2) and your CD key was permanently tied to your account which means your only way to give a friend access to your game is to give them your account, which is no different from giving someone else your Steam account.

Was there a rule against giving an account away that used a CD key that you no longer wanted? Because Steam has rules against that.

I'm not asking for a full on used digital keys flea market or some retarded shit but if I want to give or sell somebody an account for a game/service I no longer use it should be my right to do so, just as it would be my right to sell a physical disc after I'm done with it.

The only reason it isn't currently possible is because most digital distribution platforms ToS forbid doing so under threat of banning/suspending the account.

>I don't care personally but this is a non-topic of discussion because mutliplayer games would still have anticheat.

What about the VAC bans that have been triggered from editing config files or games needing to connect to a central server for singleplayer content?

If VAC is supposed to function as an anti-cheat why is it flagging things that don't affect multiplayer portions of the game?

>Again, this is a non-topic of discussion because if Steam never existed we would still have this like we did before digital distribution was a thing. I'd rather take Valve's "DRM" that isn't actually really intended to be DRM

I'm not sure how Steamworks isn't intended as a form of DRM. It behaves and functions exactly like DRM. If by "not intended as DRM" you mean "it doesn't phone home one hundred times per second" then sure.

Steam is still a form of DRM that can prevent you from accessing games, the "offline mode" has to be launched while internet connected.

So I guess Steam wins least worst form of DRM only because the alternatives are so much worse.

>The only way I can think of an otherwise anonymous account being unmasked would be if Valve had a major data breach, but even then I kinda doubt it considering that basically everything should be encrypted.

Should is a word that implies best practices. Very few companies actually follow best practices and there are breaches all the time.

>early to mid 2000s like SecuROM and Safedisc.

SecuROM is still around. It goes by the name Denuvo and Steam stocks games that use Denuvo but that is an entirely separate issue.

>>14917079

>>14917223

Just going to add to this that it doesn't necessarily matter if older games used a invasive anti-cheat system or DRM system. As if that somehow makes it ok.

>>14876494

> no shill accusations

Obvious shill is obvious.

> Will never happen or they get sued into oblivion

They can already ban you from playing games.

> What else other than the DNS leak has been confirmed?

They log all of your play data. That is fully visible. Who knows what they do with it.

> Are you forced to buy them?

I shouldn't need a shovel and a pickaxe to find gems. If I wanted that hassle I could go the yarharhar route. The marketplace is being saturated, and this is a problem not only for the customers but the vendors fighting on a saturated marketplace as well.

>MP just werks, no fees like for console MP

Same can be said for the WON network before it, which was nice.

>Can easily play with friends

Not even remotely new or exclusive to steam.

>No need to hunt down patches

Because it shoves them down your throat weather or not you want them.

>Integrated game specific forums

With increasingly poorer moderation.

>Can easily install mods

And they are no longer always free thanks to Steam.

>>14917115

>is flawed

How?

> and based on the honor system

Which is exactly why I will buy from them first. They don't treat me like a criminal.

> and its packages constantly used for piracy

source?

>>14918183

>source?

Does it matter? That's a pro not a con.

>>14918215

Because I want to know exactly why they are an idiot before I tell them they are an idiot.

>>14918766

>scared

Man they already backpedaled before with Hatred, it was obvious that this will happen eventually.

>>14876525

This. Ever since GOG started releasing DRM-free games the quality of SP game torrents has gone up quite a bit. No more Tages, SecruRom, or StarForce problems. The last SP game I actually bought through steam was Doom 2016, and it was after the demo exploit was fixed and before it was cracked, not to mention it was worth the price of admission during a 50% sale.

>>14918766

> laws vary around the world

> case by case basis

Is this going to be their excuse for allowing only games they like with Nazis in it? Wolf 2: Moonman Doom: Illegal in the UK/Germanistan

>>14918126

I just don't really mind a CD Key or inserting a disc as authentication. It's almost entirely noninvasive and nearly always won't be the cause of

>This game cannot be launched, fuck you

>>14918183

>source?

Not the guy but I have seen straight up GoG installers on torrent sites, not that it speaks for volume that they're used for piracy so much as they're just that convenient.

>>14918766

I don't see how this is them being scared since the short of it is

>We understand people won't like some content so we're introducing tools to help people not look at shit they don't like, we're still gonna stock it though.

>>14918919

I think that'll be their excuse when they have to censor games for local laws.

The main issue I see there is that they'll have to fragment the Steam store a lot if they actually go through with it as they implied.

Think about how Canada and the US differ on freedom of expression and it makes sense as to why they'd say it would vary based on local laws.

>>14920209

>>14918919

Lots of games are unavailable in my country for various reasons

>>14918766

>since you threw a shitfit and stopped giving us money we're giving back all of your anime

>instead of deleting fucking everything we're going to shoot down problematic content before it reaches the store in the first place from now on

>we here at valve hate you and your games and we hope those games don't find an audience (you)

>>14918172

>The marketplace is being saturated, and this is a problem not only for the customers but the vendors fighting on a saturated marketplace as well.

t. comcast

>>14920906

spot the paid shill

>>14902759

not commenting on your argument with the dude you're responding to, but criticizing someone for spelling 'through' as 'thru', while simultaneously not capitalizing "I'm", makes you yourself look like the nigger.

also

>stormfags

>>>/oven/

>>14921019

>By their EULA alone you don't actually own any of the games in your library. All you have is a limited license to the game which Valve retains the right to revoke or limit access to.

EULA and ToS have been invalidated in court so many times that they are worth as much as a prenup.

In a majority of cases you cannot be forced to sign away consumer rights to use a service, regardless of what a company says as part of their contract with you.

There have also been rulings that have invalidated ToS on the grounds that a consumer could not reasonably understand what they were signing.

>Along with that, there is precedent for this kind of behaviour. Amazon licenses their ebooks to their users similarly to how Valve licenses their games.

>In no cases that I've heard of did Amazon face legal repercussions for these actions.

>The closest they got was settling out of court for deleting the book 1984 out of a bunch of people's kindles.

Amazon settling out of court was them avoiding any changes to their policies that may have been forced by a court ruling.

They wanted to avoid being the company that "killed" licensed goods because that sort of ruling would probably kill several other businesses in several industries.

They only settled because whoever was representing the Kindle people had enough money and time to actually get in front of a judge before folding.

>Given that Valve operates extremely similarly selling games to how amazon sells ebooks it's not removed from the realm of possibility that they may engage in the selfsame actions.

Valve has removed games from sale before but they haven't removed games from people's accounts. Even the games they removed for being low effort card farms are still playable if you own them.

>>14876494

>>Can easily install mods

BULLSHIT

Because of the dumb Steam Pipe shit, many old HL2 mods don't work anymore. Furthermore who at Valve thought taking all the assets out of the GCFs was a good idea anyway?

>>14922837

That was due to them "upgrading" the engine of HL2 and their other source games, IIRC. It was Valve's fuck up without a shadow of a doubt but I don't think this is the fault of Steam.

The Steam version of HL2 is apparently super shit too, being far less stable than the original retail version, but this is just hearsay as I am one of the 10 people in the world that hasn't completed a HL game and doesn't have HL2 on Steam.

>>14920674

Have you even read the statement?

>>14922908

Why would he? 99% of people in this thread are underage redditors trying extremely hard to fit in.

Watch them post their ebin shit right after i post this.

>>14922908

Yes i did, and i can read between the lines, faggot.

>>14923154

>reading into it things that aren't there

Meh.

>>14923166

Nani?