b093c2 No.14843103
ARPG's are too easy. There's nothing about them that signifies any roleplaying elements, its just a brainless grind to get better gear, to kill more to get better gear. How can people say that these kinds of games are good?
I've started playing both Diablo 2 and Grim Dawn, and at least starting off with everything is easy as fuck. Does it get harder later on? Is hardcore more really necessary?
59b5ba No.14843109
Play Divine Divinity, it's got a game underneath the combat instead of being a pure skinner box like Diablo.
9fe1e3 No.14843117
>starting areas
>everything is easy as fuck
well at least you weren't like that one fag who made a thread about near a tomato calling it shit because he couldn't get past the tutorial on the hardest difficulty
this is still a shit thread though.
>Does it get harder later on?
If you have time to ask retarded questions like this you have time to play the games and see for yourself
>>14843109
Diablo 1 wasn't a skinner box fag, Diablo 2 could arguably be called one though, but its still pretty shitposty to do so
5ea942 No.14843133
>>14843103
>I've started playing both Diablo 2 and Grim Dawn, and at least starting off with everything is easy as fuck
That's because normal mode is the tutorial difficulty. Starting with nightmare it gets more difficult.
18b3a5 No.14843152
>There's nothing about them that signifies any roleplaying elements
You play the role of the character you create, retard.
>Does it get harder later on?
Most games get harder as they go. Have you ever played a video game before?
9693c5 No.14843541
GD's flaw imo is making normal mode piss easy, you do not need any gear or real build to get through it. All of its difficulty is locked in elite+ultimate while on normal you just have to rush through it to get to the good parts. Still a great game by the way, just didn't like the way devs did the early parts. Then again starting areas in these types of games are always extremely easy.
1da95a No.14843568
> Diablo and its clones are ARPGS
Wrong
f76ee2 No.14845309
>>14843103
Grin Dawn was so easy I lost interest.
8f230a No.14845330
I look at ARPGs as basically an outlet for my violence needs.
c4f2f6 No.14845351
>>14843103
It's a genre that's stagnant as fuck, but there are at least a couple of games that actually innovate on it:
>Dungeon Siege (not the sequels) - gives you control of more than one character (up to eight, IIRC)
>Din's Curse/Zombasite - puts you in a living world where enemies have their own goals they follow and your quests come from the actual state of the world and the things that need to be dealt with in it before they get worse
ed0c65 No.14845363
>>14843103
Play Divine Divinity, it's got a semblance of roleplaying.
f7aeb9 No.14845380
They're not ARPGs, they're Fisher price point and click adventures. Only AIDS infected faggots call them ARPGs, probably to make these boring as shit, repetitive skinner box simulators sound hardcore.
f3fbf9 No.14845381
>>14843103
>>14845309
The problem with Grim Dawn is that the game is extremely easy until at least Ultimate difficulty, after which point many people have lost interest. And even then, there's nothing after that, so even hardcore players lose interest.
c2905a No.14845398
>>14843541
>>14845381
What about Veteran mode?
2c1c5c No.14845432
>>14843103
Play some Ys on Nightmare you fag
8bb754 No.14845465
>actually fucking roleplaying
God damn you're pathetic. Roleplaying in a fucking video game, a single player one no less? Video games are fucking made for powergaming, not this lame faggy bullshit. If you want to roleplay, go and play the thankfully dying medium which is Tabletop.
ed0c65 No.14845469
>>14845465
>powergaming
Upvoted fellow /v/edditor
8bb754 No.14845489
>>14845469
There is literally no reason to roleplay in a fucking video game of all things. Your choice of equipment and abilities doesn't impact anything story-wise. Roleplaying is one of the gayest things you can do in a video game.
c2905a No.14845503
>>14845489
There is nothing more fun than necromancing it up, especially in games that let you be an asshole. Fuck you I'll roleplay being Bone Daddy all I like.
f0a9cc No.14845525
They don't get harder later on.
Half of the "gameplay" can be enjoyed by looking up grimcalc or something online. The other half is grinding.
8bb754 No.14845527
>>14845503
Video games are only fun because of the mechanics. If you stopped playing like a god damn autist who writes twenty four page-long backstories for your character, which absolutely no one will read, you'd probably have more fun.
8bb754 No.14845528
>>14845527
*for his character
c2905a No.14845576
>>14845528
>>14845527
Not sure what you're on about, mate. In Grim Dawn, for example, I like to be a full on minion necromancer who relies almost entirely on pets. The game lets me do that, of course. It also lets me be a total asshole in most of the side quests, with options for maximum personal gain and minimal effort or helping of others. So I'll pick those, and without any other effort on my part, I now have a character, an asshole necromancer. In Witcher, you can play Geralt to be alright (if tired of literally everyone's shit) to being a supreme cunt (who is also tired of everyone's shit). That's also roleplaying. In Dwarf Fortress, you don't need to give your dwarves anything beyond a 3x1 hole to chuck their shit into, and a 5 or 6x1 for nobles, even with consideration for happy thoughts, and noble offices can be right in the middle of the dining hall. But you can give them little 2x2 cubbies and then the nobles get 3x3 or 4x4 homes with offices attatched, and that's a kind of roleplaying too.
Or I can steal a slab of necromancer secrets and kill my nobles in new and interesting ways so my army has eternal target practice. So is that.
I don't need to write shit for that. Some games just let you do it more. Grim Dawn's isn't a very wide scope for it, but it's there. That's what most people refer to with roleplaying in the context of videogames: Using the context of the game to create or extrapolate a role for them to operate in.
94f642 No.14845577
>>14845489
>no reason to roleplay in a fucking video game
>Your choice of equipment and abilities doesn't impact anything story-wise
Imagine being such a lifeless husk of a human being that you only care about stats and dps.
I'm honestly sad for you.
8bb754 No.14845621
>>14845576
>2x2 cubbies
>roleplaying
What the fuck? No, that's just one of the more efficient designs for residential zones. It gives you room for two extra units of furniture, or personal stockpiles.
>>14845577
If I wanted storytelling, I'd read a fucking book. I feel sorry for you, for being so fucking pathetic that you actually develop this sort of mental storyfaggotry as you play a video game, forcing you to play bad on purpose.
d59d90 No.14845658
>>14845621
A fort that sticks to only the most efficient, most safe, most ergonomic methods in lieu of what is interesting is a pretty boring ant farm, not a proper dwarven fortress. Do you also go and mod out invasions and aquifers to 'powergame' more efficiently?
Take this image, for example.
You could view it as a comically efficient approach to one of the more annoying aspects of that game. Or you could look at it as a warrior on his last vestiges, mocking an opponent far out of his league because he knows there won't be any repurcussions. And both these things are valid, because any enjoyment we get out of these games is totally imaginary anyway.
We aren't actually building a fortress, slaying death cults, or any of that shit. We're escaping to some other place for a bit, and how we do that is up to ourselves. See yourself out, negativity is for half-channing piles of garbage.
f76ee2 No.14845682
>>14845398
Veteran mode was still easy to the point that I didn't enjoy the game. I'm not going to sleep through a thing once so I can maybe enjoy it the second time.
8bb754 No.14845700
>>14845658
Even regions that say they don't have aquifers still have deposits of damp stone in my game. And I added a fuck ton of new invaders and civilizations. Only a roleplayer faggot would mod those out so he could live out his dreams of creating some big gay fortress where everything is masterwork and every stone is smoothed and engraved. Just play the damn game like a normal person you fucking faggot, nobody cares about your writefaggotry, and even fewer will care when you have it internalized while you're playing the game.
638174 No.14846025
>>14845380
This. Clickfests are garbage, play some real action RPGs.
ae85aa No.14846510
What's the current best in class for necromancy?
I refuse to believe that with all the trash coming out there's still nothing that beats the somewhat mediocre but at least boney classics.
37e395 No.14846745
>>14843103
>There's nothing about them that signifies any roleplaying elements, its just a brainless grind to get better gear, to kill more to get better gear.
This is the same shitty argument I see being made for M&B. If the core mechanic is fun, why the fuck does it need something extra to it? You kill and loot enemies because killing and looting enemies is fun.
3a9907 No.14846787
>>14846025
How do you filter "clickfests" and real action RPGs though?
I mean I like the abundance of loot and dungeon crawling in diablo and its kind but I wish the actual combat was something more involved.
I really liked Brandish and Xanadu but the loot in those were fairly unsatisfying and I'm the type of faggot who really wants to use shit that isn't long/short swords.
21d769 No.14846794
>>14846025
When you play a clickfest remapped to gamepad to give you more direct control, you begin see just what kind of simple garbage they really are. They're basically just extremely dumbed-down brawlers that hide their shallow gameplay underneath a needlessly clumsy mouse cursor + hotkey interface, to give the illusion of challenge.
21318f No.14846824
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
I recommend playing Diablo 1 with the HD mod, it ups the difficulty a fair bit, some of the new bosses will fuck you up especially if you play as a warrior.
https://mod.diablo.noktis.pl/
d0267f No.14847384
>>14843103
Play Xanadu Next OP.
That game is NOT gear based. If the game had been localized in 2005 it would have been a cult classic.
88f40b No.14847642
>>14843103
Play Diablo 1 as a Rogue or Warrior (no magic).
Yes, Diablo 2 and all clones are difficulty-less crap until you've beaten it 3 times to unlock super-hard-we-really-mean-it-this-time mode.
88f40b No.14847654
>>14846824
As cool as the HD mod is it's misnamed and is in fact an overhaul of everything in Diablo. Vanilla should be played first.
d10f21 No.14847736
>>14846824
This mod put me in unwinnable situations. It sucks.
d10f21 No.14847747
>>14847642
Diablo 1 as the mage is the most fun way to play it.
>>14843103
Those games are easy at first and then become impossible without a good build on the hardest difficulties. But it all boils down to a mostly mindless click fest.
b07827 No.14847857
JRPG is shit because anime is not an artform.
wow, pick your poison bucko.
88f40b No.14847888
>>14847747
>Diablo 1 as the mage is the most fun way to play it.
It is fun, but it's way too easy and the OP was looking for difficulty. Diablo 1 Mage is what led to the cancer of Diablo 2 where you just teleport in to rooms and instantly slaughter everything.
9693c5 No.14848063
>>14847642
>difficulty-less crap until you've beaten it 3 times to unlock super-hard-we-really-mean-it-this-time mode.
Easily the biggest problem with these games right now. At most they should have two difficulty modes the first one somewhat tough but accessible for enough people so the devs can make money and a 2nd one that requires some skill and a proper build. I'd still consider GD by far the most fun diablo clone in the past few years by a long shot but god damn it I really can't stand having to go through the game 3 times just to get another character to level 100. Supposedly next expac will address this
21318f No.14848103
>>14847736
I finished it with a rogue, some parts were pretty difficult but its beatable.
21318f No.14848110
>>14847654
>Vanilla should be played first.
Could be confusing if you go from vanilla straight to that mod because the stat points have to be allocated differently.
dde8ee No.14848559
>>14845658
>We aren't actually building a fortress, slaying death cults, or any of that shit. We're escaping to some other place for a bit, and how we do that is up to ourselves. See yourself out, negativity is for half-channing piles of garbage.
>mfw
6c12d0 No.14848677
For all the people saying Diablo, Grim Dawn et al. are not ARPGs, could you please point me in the direction of a real ARPG? I like those games but would prefer something more interesting and maybe more difficult. Playing with a controller would be great but is not a requirement.
b81350 No.14849002
The click n loot genre is shit
worse than MOBAs, at least mobafags have a different match every time. People who play games like these are rats just collecting loot.
5fd303 No.14849500
>>14849002
>i think x is shit
>its worse than poopy
>people who play x are poopy heads
try posting arguments next time or fuck off back to half /v/ you mong
85fe3f No.14851249
>>14843103
Sounds like you've got the downs, better kill yourself.
ed0c65 No.14853751
>>14845700
I pity those with no imagination, I can't guess what sort of enjoyment they get from games.
31ad9a No.14853894
>>14853751
Mechanical, hard enjoyment, the same one gets from playing chess or baseball. When I want to use my imagination, I turn to writing.
4c4d29 No.14853928
>>14843133
>Starting with nightmare it gets more difficult.
Not really, you just suck at video games. It's so easy I can't even imagine how awful normal mode would be.
1e35a4 No.14854026
>>14845489
You people were(&still are) literally the cancer of vidyagames, before the SJW cucks&cunts showed up.
dd8d53 No.14854101
I was thinking about this just yesterday. The world and atmosphere in these games seem really interesting, and I actually like the grind-for-better-gear aspect. What I don't like however, is the absolutely mindless gameplay when you're engaging in combat.
Maybe the theory crafting element is meant to be the cerebral part of it, but I still don't like how the other half essentially plays by itself. Hell, I really enjoy Dragon's Crown and Nioh even in their early game because you have direct control over the character's actions, and you're at least required to look at the damn screen for a change.
This isn't just an issue with games like Diablo II, even stuff like Divine Divinity, which someone has mentioned, still looks very uninteresting and shallow to me. I still feel there's something in this genre for me to enjoy, though.
Waiting for OS2 to release on PS4 because my toaster can't run it.
39c64d No.14854231
>>14854101
Theorycrafting is an old name for munching or minmaxing, something that's been a thing for years and only appeals to certain type of people. Making such shit mandatory and especially more accessible so some twit can brag on reddit or dazzle idiots on twitch kinda defeats the purpose. And correct me if I'm wrong but Nioh and the rest of the "souls like" shit is more about hard repetition than anything cerebral. Case in point one can't really play smart around a one hit enemy that you only just met. Second, going muh genre is some kind of irritating when the genre in question is as vague as ARPG is. I mean motherfucker you really can't 1:1 most of the subgenres or whatever any more then you can compare FIFA, some racer and the latest Deer Hunter as muh sports games.
I'm also sure you've tried Throne of Darkness, classic Van Helsing or Silverfall. First's got some fans around here because muh weaboos and difficulty, second's got some top notch world building even though the actual gameplay is meh and the third's alright as far as diablo hack and slash games go but it's interesting how the world reacts and changes depending on your skills and shit. It's mostly about tech vs magical druids but it translates to one fighting hippies and mutants more often and the other clockwork automatons and whatnot.
4075f4 No.14854250
aa4c52 No.14854299
>>14845700
You say "gay" and faggot so many times over and over I think you're keeping something trapped inside anon