dc2824 No.14767589
Have there been any games that have changed your views on a certain issue or any of your beliefs. I cant think on the top of my head any games that have done that to me.
Do you thinks games can even be "deep" or is the result just cringey like The Witness or The Beginners guide?
79e47a No.14767629
Metal Gear Solid was my first red pill that something wasn't quite right with our government. That game was a lot to take in as an 11 year old.
596231 No.14767645
>>14767589
How does The Beginner's Guide change your beliefs on anything? It's a silly story with no political side to it.
d51cd6 No.14767655
>>14767645
He's bought into the spectacle of "depth," of the statement of ideas, that's actually called pretension, and has conflated it with actual "depth," with the actual presentation of ideas. Everything he says in his OP is predicated on his conflating the presentation of ideas with the presentation of a hollow spectacle of "depth" that he puts forth as being all that really matters.
So, yeah, shit thread.
48a4fa No.14767656
>>14767589
dark souls unironically made me realize im a boymolesting fruit when i first met gwyndolin
does that count?
10b181 No.14767658
>>14767589
As far as video games goes, the only thing that comes to mind is MGS.
>>14767645
Also this, did you even read the book OP? It's proto-Rock and Morty but with Douglas Adams snarky British humor instead. I would hardly call it deep
b86e19 No.14767666
my beliefs generally aren't changed by works of fiction. They can effect me deeply on an emotional level, but I don't think I've been affected by a game yet on the level of actually affecting my beliefs. then again, maybe the best games do it to you without you even realizing, but that's a cop-out answer
596231 No.14767687
>>14767655
>"depth," of the statement of ideas, that's actually called pretension, and has conflated it with actual "depth," with the actual presentation of ideas.
Are you saying depth is in how the idea is presented and not in the idea itself?
dc2824 No.14767790
>>14767658
>>14767655
I must've miswrote the OP. I think The Beginners guide is a very pretentious game that has the facade of depth with its narrative and it's message if "people who talk about obscure games do it because it gets them a dopamine rush". The way the game is also made us pretentious too. Every level is made by some retard in source and the narrator forces meaning onto them. It looks like it has depth, but it's actually as deep as a pond.
f7342d No.14767857
>>14767589
Bloodbone in part has a weird effect on me.
It made me realize how i was using other media to "catalize" internal feelings i had (aka using music to understand the way i felt about things, or games to vent stress or anger).
This led me to want to experience things withouth that added layer changing the flavour of everything, and see myself for who i truly am.
That game just has me thinking a lot.
c5406d No.14767915
>>14767589
Dark Souls, especially the Ringed City.
It's subtle, but the whole franchise is about how humans are a bunch locusts, who can't keep their desires in check which eventually leads to the destruction of the entire world.
It's similar to how the narrative of Bloodborne is basically saying that humans are just sophisticated beasts, which makes us much more dangerous than mindless ones.
6f0ef6 No.14767923
>>14767915
>>14767857
Look at those Soulsfagots who think their games full of plot holes and lazy storytelling are something to be taken seriously.
ecb01a No.14767929
>>14767915
That makes me Wonder, why are so many stories focused on devaluing humanity? Not that I like disslike the theme but it seems to be popping up very often.
f5925a No.14767935
>>14767929
Well, if it were a JRPG, it'd be devaluing God.
f7342d No.14767939
>>14767923
It's not the game that makes me think, it's the a e s t e t h i c s
49fc56 No.14767941
>>14767929
Because it's easy. I mean, who really likes people as a whole? Nobody. The vast majority of people see their close group of friends as family as the only nice and trustworthy people around, and everyone else is just "fake".
If you say "people are shit", pretty much no one's gonna disagree with you. And of course it sounds super deep, like you're addressing some deep faults of society that no one has ever talked about, despite it being one of the most common underlying themes in storytelling.
ecb01a No.14767943
>>14767935
That's easily explainable though, is there a bigger challenge than taking down the most powerful being in existence?
bbaa93 No.14767950
>>14767589
Victoria 2, Europa Universalis 3 (4 too, to a degree), Crusader Kings 2, etc. While their historical trivia is often shit, they tend to get at least some of the conflicts right, and playing those games is going to teach you geography very well. Seeing the various borders of nations during different times also explains many things about world history and puts things into perspective. It's a gateway into getting more interested in history and practically shows you why many wars happened. History is chock-full of redpills and it's not hard to see many modern conflicts, despite wildly differing narratives, still being fought over often-times the same reasons, which leads you to parse through MSM propaganda easier as you now know to look past the flowery rhetoric and see that it's nothing but pure matter of money and political interests. It also makes you hate Turks.
9acb24 No.14767991
This game opening my eyes to why we need hate speech laws.
c5406d No.14768029
>>14767923
>doesn't have enough brain cells to connect the dots
>says they're riddled with plot holes and lazy storytelling
6f0ef6 No.14768069
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14768029
It's fucking lazy. You know you've fucked up when your principal source of lore it's the items' description. And yea, it has plot holes. In fact the games use plot holes as its principal plot mechanism. Every piece of lore is an instance of time or some context but you never see what really happens or if you do is something puntual so autists like you have to make up a lot of chronologies and fill the holes with your own ideas to try and make sense of the info you already have when there's no point whatsoever because one of the first thing the game tells you in Dark Souls is that the flow of time is convoluted, or in other words, the writers can do whatever they want.
And the combat is shit.
e2c58c No.14768074
>>14768069
>one mechanic that explains why players can interact with each other means the entire game has to make no sense
7b2ba3 No.14768083
>>14768029
>My fanfic is totally canon
Sure thing Vaati.
6f0ef6 No.14768091
>>14768074
Well, that's how storytelling works on videogames. If you can't make mechanics that work with the story instead of retconning it you are better doing anime of shit like that.
c5406d No.14768092
>>14768069
>It's fucking lazy. You know you've fucked up when your principal source of lore it's the items' description.
What's wrong with putting the lore in the item descriptions?
>And yea, it has plot holes. In fact the games use plot holes as its principal plot mechanism.
> Every piece of lore is an instance of time or some context but you never see what really happens.
>If you do is something puntual so autists like you have to make up a lot of chronologies and fill the holes with your own ideas.
You're basically complaining that the games aren't spoonfeeding you the story.
>there's no point whatsoever because one of the first thing the game tells you in Dark Souls is that the flow of time is convoluted
Refer to >>14768074
If you don't like fragmentary and environmental storytelling, then the Souls series is just not for you.
>>14768083
Nice strawman. Did I ever say that my interpretation is canon? Kill yourself.
dc2824 No.14768094
>Item descriptions
>In anyway a game mechanic
dc2824 No.14768097
7b2ba3 No.14768104
>>14768092
>Did I ever say that my interpretation is canon?
>doesn't have enough brain cells to connect the dots
Yes, yes you did.
dc2824 No.14768106
>>14768104
I agree with what your saying, but your grasping at straws now
6f0ef6 No.14768109
>>14768092
>What's wrong with putting the lore in the item descriptions?
Nothing really, unless it's 80%-90% of the story telling like in the Soulsborne games.
>You're basically complaining that the games aren't spoonfeeding you the story.
Never said that. Just that the player should have access to the full history if he ends investigating, not only scraps of what could have happened.
>Refer to
>>14768091
>If you don't like fragmentary and environmental storytelling
It's not that i don't like that, it's just that normis think that the story is deep and complicated when it's a fucking mess or just average as fuck and it's an excuse to hide plot errors holes, and laziness.
dc2824 No.14768113
>>14768109
Does Dark Souls even have interesting lore. Just seems like a more depressing version of Berserk
6f0ef6 No.14768121
>>14768113
Yea, pretty much. There's neat things like the headless guy in DS2 but in general the lore just revolves around "what the fuck is doing this here/who the fuck is this".
596231 No.14768139
>>14767790
>pretentious
Another memeword that gets thrown around for no reason. What exactly is The Beginner's Guide pretending? It's certainly not selling itself as a deep, insightful, important game. It's a fictional personal story between 2 dumb dudes. One was fascinated by the other guy's designs. That's it. It's not telling a deep message, and it's not even pretending to tell a deep message.
a0c765 No.14768153
>>14768139
>pretentious
>pretending
anon
596231 No.14768157
>>14768153
Try reading the entire post and not one word.
e2c58c No.14768159
>>14768109
>Just that the player should have access to the full history if he ends investigating, not only scraps of what could have happened.
But it does. The world and story are not that complex or inconsistent as everyone claims they are, you simply have to connect the dots yourself. And even then, it's not a detriment to the enjoyment of the game but entirely optional. The series has enough spectacle that you can beat it and enjoy it without giving a fuck about what actually happens. I much prefer that over being forced to watch hours of cutscenes.
If you resort to watching plebbit lore videos and are told bullshit instead of connecting the dots youself, that's your own fault. You don't look up walkthroughs for everything you play either, right? Or at least I'd hope so.
>>14768113
The game's story is inspired by The Silmarillion. It's essentially copying some of Tolkien's themes, whereas most other games simply copy the surface level shit like elves and orcs.
a0c765 No.14768165
>>14768157
thats 2 words anon
596231 No.14768167
>>14768165
Ok, then don't.
a0c765 No.14768169
fa5922 No.14768170
>>14768069
>You know you've fucked up when your principal source of lore it's the items' description
possibly the most retarded thing i've ever read.
dc2824 No.14768176
>>14768170
Want to elaborate on that statement
fa5922 No.14768191
>>14768091
so in dragon's dogma, when you complete a notice board quest and are instantly rewarded, instead of having to go back to the notice board like star ocean, you think the devs should have added a plot device that explains why theyre instantly rewarded?
in star ocean, when the notice board rewards you, do you think they should make a plot device about how the notice board dispenses money and items?
do you think every turn based RPG should have a plot device to explain why youre unable to move/attack when its not your turn?
do you think every game in existence should have a plot device to explain how its possible to pause the game?
i mean, it was cool how in nier they had an explination for the HUD, menus and volume controls, but its absolutely not necessary.
a0c765 No.14768195
>>14768191
>star ocean
which one btw?
141bf8 No.14768197
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
I'm going to ignore op's question since the thread derailed into a argument about Cuck Shit's (Dark Souls), so I'm going to talk about that instead.
First off what are you ignorant niggers even arguing about Dark Souls isn't even deep. The deepest lore in the game is about European deities not actual gods you retards, it makes no sense and shouldn't be interpreted as anything besides Japanese people trying to mold European mythos into video game bosses for you to kill.
Secondly,
>Deepest lore
Is not story. Story is what happens in a game, not what happens before or after it, it does not count as story even if you learn it through details, it did not happen in the game.
As far as story is concerned for Dark Souls, one day you wake up and decide to start killing things for no reason because you're a mentally ill lunatic.
Third, the gameplay is indeed shit, manufactured difficulty isn't a challenge, neither is poor game design, death doesn't make something hard, it just makes it tedious.
141bf8 No.14768201
>>14768197
>inb4 the fire
The fire is just a goal in the game, it's not a statement on nihilism, please stop interpreting it as such. It leads to a general concept of endings for players, good and sad depending on how they want the game to end to please their sorry asses after spending 10 hours rolling underneath giant spiders to stab them in the balls.
dc2824 No.14768203
>>14768197
B-But muh shortcut s
ebb335 No.14768209
>>14768191
It's more simple that you think. You only need to put a dude next to the board that gives you the rewards. The turn based thing is more complicated. You see, I'm willing to accept the mos wild shit in a videogame but I can't stand when games shit on their own rules. As an anon said the dots are easy to connect in Dark Souls but the mere fact that the time is fucked up in those games puts all of that into doubt.
fa5922 No.14768211
>>14768176
>i want cutscenes and long dialogue to explain a story.
should be pretty self explanatory anon, are you retarded enough to agree that item descriptions is a retarded way to tell a story?
tell me how you think this classic method of story telling in games is flawed. is it the fact that youre not spoonfed or forced to stop playing in order to learn it?
how is it any different from journal entries? did you think the story telling in the original resident evil was bad?
the way dark souls drops clues in various items and relics is enough to figure out massive plot points and revelations is awesome. it encourages you to find stuff, as well as expresses the gameplay. youre just there, playing a game, just trying to move forward. like the protag, but if you stopped and payed attention, you'd know what you were doing and whats going on, but its not necessary, like anything else.
>>14768195
the most recent one i can recall with notice board quests is picture related.
>>14768209
way to argue. ok, now theres a guy next to the notice board with massive amounts of money. where does he get it from? does he communicate with anyone that hangs the job on the board? is he just standing there holding all the items? if i kill him, can i loot those items? or do you need a cutscene of him going away and coming back?
but before you waste your time trying to nitpick that, does this add anything or improve the game in any way?
ebb335 No.14768212
File: fe6fe6d123af2d7⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 206.38 KB, 780x580, 39:29, E3 exclusives_a591ee_51960….jpg)
>>14768197
All of that is correct.
a0c765 No.14768216
>>14768211
ah man I hated 3 so I havnt played past that, I guess I'll get back on the train
dc2824 No.14768220
>>14768211
>Implying that I implied all that
fa5922 No.14768221
>>14768216
it's not great. but i liked the aesthetics and some of the characters. it's main story and sidequests are fairly short for an RPG if you dont get into the completion autism.
fa5922 No.14768223
>>14768220
so it was self explanatory and you didnt need anyone to elaborate and replied to my post for no reason? cool.
ebb335 No.14768224
>>14768211
What about a guild that handles the rewards? What about you see the mission and go to talk to the person? There are tons of useless NPC in every game. As I said, not everything needs an explanation but everything needs to make sense in the game's world.
9c129e No.14768232
>>14768029
They just put Anor Londo back in DaS3, call it a zone and you're telling us they're not lazy
yeah
dc2824 No.14768235
>>14768223
Nice post anon, going to make that a copy pasta from now on
fa5922 No.14768237
>>14768224
maybe so you dont have to run all over every city talking to 30-40 different people when the quests are essentially challenges?
youre the worst kind of casual that thinks story takes precedence over fun and gameplay. do you think burnout needs a story like twisted metal black to explain why cars are crashing into eachother or how you dont die?
05f91a No.14768255
>>14768237
Fuck off. Read the whole post. I don't give a shit about the game mechanics and how they relate to the story. I just don't like that some games treat me like a retarded and expect me to accept shit the writers made on the fly.
6e0789 No.14768260
some of the quotes in this game really make me think
fa5922 No.14768266
>>14768255
>writers make games
i guess if you prefer your games to center around the story, like you obviously do given all of your posts saying that the game world has to make sense, and you dont like when they put fun into the game without explaining it.
you're not talking about retconning story, or story inconsistencies. youre talking about how the gameplay is limited by the story. should metal slug explain why you get to come back after being killed? should they explain points? or why you cant pick up and use enemy weapons?
your entire agument is anti-fun pro-story autism. and now youre saying writers are lazy because the programmers made the game fun and werent limited by the story?
just because you say you dont think that way, doesnt make it true. the premise of your entire argument says otherwise.
dc2824 No.14768272
dc2824 No.14768277
dc2824 No.14768283
>>14768275
Have you seen the video Ross did on dude sex, it was pretty good
278060 No.14768289
No, that's what books are for.
223c2e No.14768291
>>14768197
>manufactured difficulty isn't a challenge
Every difficulty is manufactured you retard.
141bf8 No.14768293
>>14768291
>There are people out there who actually believe this.
6e0789 No.14768294
>>14768283
yeah it was pretty good
playing the game last year though was one of the best experiences I've had with vidya. I know im late to the party but I guess its the gift that keeps on giving. I only wish there were more realistic RPG shooters in a believable near future setting.
dc2824 No.14768300
>>14768294
There is, it's called human revolution
fea96d No.14768301
fa5922 No.14768307
>>14768291
manufactured difficulty in that context usually refers to the devs just adding things in thoughtlessly to make it harder. kind of like adding in an element of random chance that makes it harder. people often say this about dark souls because they cant differentiate between themselves being reckless and actual random deaths.
the dragon over the bridge is the most common example people use. manufactured difficulty in that context would be that dragon, but imagine if the dragon killed you on that bridge and there was no way to survive it, but it just happened entirely at random.
>>14768293
he's not completely wrong, since the game is manufactured. and challenge is often a large part of a game's design.
141bf8 No.14768315
>>14768307
Yeah but in Dark Souls it's almost always dropping the player into an environment deliberately made to kill them as much as it can for the meme.
05f91a No.14768321
>>14768266
Are you missreading me on purpose?
>the game world has to make sense
>you dont like when they put fun into the game without explaining it.
Never said anythin of that retard. I'm going to put it simple for a brainlet like you:
1. I don't give a shit about how the story interacts with the game mechanics
2. But if the game bothers to make some rules then it shouldn't shit on them.
That's it.
>just because you say you dont think that way, doesnt make it true. the premise of your entire argument says otherwise.
Oh, you didn't like my tone then. Retarded nigger faggot, go back to reddit.
fa5922 No.14768328
>>14768315
the difference is random chances. you can get through dark souls without dying much. i dont think i died more than 20 times in my first playthrough of that game.
care to give an example?
>>14768321
>comes from neogaf
>thinks gameplay should be limited by the story
>tells me to go back to reddit.
>I don't give a shit about how the story interacts with the game mechanics
not true, read your own posts
>But if the game bothers to make some rules then it shouldn't shit on them.
by "the game" you mean the games story. which shows where your priorities are. and then you say "it" shouldnt shit on them. the gameplay. so you think the gameplay shouldnt shit on the story? have you noticed what a faggot you are yet?
go watch movies, faggot. games arent for you.
141bf8 No.14768360
>>14768328
20 is still a lot, usually you don't die more than 4 times in a game.
ae93f0 No.14768361
05f91a No.14768366
>>14768328
Care to post where do I say all that? You are just making shit up because you think I'm saying something I'm. And the story is part if the game whether you like it or not. Deus ex, Stalker,… The thing is, if the game wants me to take its story seriously then it hasn't to do shit like that. That's why I will take more seriously any FF or MGS than any Wolfenstein or COD.
141bf8 No.14768382
>>14768368
The original Postal was unironically deep, not philosophical but deep.
6e0789 No.14768387
>>14768300
no thanks I'd rather not stare at piss
05f91a No.14768400
>>14768382
What's your take on the ending? The one with the kids.
fa5922 No.14768403
>>14768360
depends on what games we're talking about here…
>>14768366
>I just don't like that some games treat me like a retarded and expect me to accept shit the writers made on the fly.
you defended simple convenience in dragons dogma replaced with gathering 30-40 quests from towns people for the sake of story realism.
nigger, did your little nigger monkey brain not understand the conversation? are imageboard layouts too confusing for you?
26dd57 No.14768422
>>14768400
Not him but I just thought it was him finally succumbing to insanity and he imagined the children, was it really that open to interpretation?
500f55 No.14768450
>>14768403
>You see, I'm willing to accept the most wild shit in a videogame but I can't stand when games shit on their own rules.
Where do you see me saying that i don't want the convinience? You fucking retarded. Can you read? I only was sayin what could be done, not what should ve done.
Lets see an example: have you ever played a game where the water was an instant death yet in a precise point you could swim because reasons? That's my fucking problem, moron. And yes, it's more prominent in the interaction between story and gameplay but not exclusive.
fa5922 No.14768462
>>14768450
read the posts you replied to with that. context is important you illiterate nigger.
9ca847 No.14768472
>>14768462
>And yes, it's more prominent in the interaction between story and gameplay but not exclusive.
24d057 No.14768475
>>14767589
you have to be eleven years old to let a game sway you politically
9ca847 No.14768476
>>14768462
>>14768472
It would make more sense if they didn't give a shit and didn't explain it.
399ac0 No.14768505
The World Ends With You made me consider the possibility that maybe most people AREN'T complete pieces of shit. It also made me stop hiding my interests from everyone.
fa5922 No.14768507
>>14768476
>they didn't give a shit and didn't explain it.
nothing wrong with that, as long as what they added is fun. theres no reason to write in bullshit to explain gameplay decisions, and theres no reason to limit the gameplay because its not consistent with the story.
if the 2 happen to match up, thats cool, but its absolutely not necessary, and i'd ways prefer fun/good gameplay over consistency. and i would never criticize because they added something fun/convenient just because they didnt explain it. im not going to criticize metal slug because the rocket launcher shoots 50 rockets each almost the size of the gun itself. im not going to criticize doom or quake because "how does walking over armor equip it automatically?" "you should have to look down and grab ammo" "you should also reload or have explain how the guns are fed ammo through a high tech/magic system"
9ca847 No.14768523
>>14768507
And Im not criticizing that either. But, you know, if the game says characters can be everywhere at any time but then expects me to understand the lore in a lineal way I don't like .
39f1e8 No.14768537
File: 21a2489c3f7c300⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 89.17 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, ecd9b537d1834abdfe21bfdcad….jpg)
HAZE taught me to do the lords housekeeping
b3f07f No.14768545
I wouldn't say it's changed my beliefs, but I'm wholeheartedly trying to go for TES-style metaphysics within my tabletop games because I think it's the coolest shit ever. Religion, reality, and the fourth wall can be extremely interesting subjects to poke at.
98bcfd No.14768614
>>14768545
You're probably a mild schizophrenic
df5458 No.14768644
Rain World. The overarching theme of the game is focused around escaping the cycle of life and death, and finding out the reason why the sapients who came before slugcats and scavengers died out.
df5458 No.14768702
>>14768644
The world is pretty unique too. What appears to be a city, is actually a massive computational complex with organic components that are mutated or decaying, which is why the area is so dangerous.
2b71cc No.14768748
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Obsidian (PC/Mac, 1996, Segasoft) certainly got me to consider how strange being trapped in other people's dreams - until you escaped by determining the logic of the dreamworld and working within it to leave it - would be.
Embed related. You can find a longplay of the whole game here, it's fairly short:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9673B23B881C7D4C
2b71cc No.14768751
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14768748
Additional embed here. Spoils part of the game, assuming anyone here can manage to find it and is interested in playing it.
fbbf8d No.14768841
>>14767923
it's not a bad thing that they overthink these things, also take into account that most of the Souls player base is composed by people who have any degree of obsessive compulsive disorder, they might also like metroidvanias because they must collect/unlock everything.
82d556 No.14768876
>>14767589
No games in particular but I have done a lot of thinking on the future of videogames and the philosophical ramifications from technological advancement. For example, when AI uses virtual human connectomes to drive NPC behaviour, how would morality come into play? Would it be wrong to kill them- or make them suffer in any way you feel like, particularly when you can just reload the save?
ac8d15 No.14769035
No.
Games are for fun. Not for 2deep4you shit from pretentious hippies.
6f0ef6 No.14769049
>>14768113
More like (((fun))).
b07865 No.14769340
>>14767629
Its was very good, id agrue that mgs2 was a more clear indication of what was going on behind the scenes.