05778e No.14760619
What's the fuckin deal with the Dwemer?
3027bd No.14760653
To put it as concisely as I can
>the Dwemer have communication abilities akin to the internet, allowing all of their thoughts to be interconnected with one another
>their cheif Tonal Architect Kagrenac is experimenting with the Heart of Lorkhan in order to transcend the gods that they reject and create their own god-like power in the form of a giant brass god(i.e. a giant mecha that can fuck up the existence that bully them)
>during the battle at Red Mountain, Kagrenac pings the heart with Sunder and Keening in order to awaken the power of their god robot Numidium
>he fucks it up, and by fucking it up realizes that reality is indeed not reality but rather is creation of the dream of the comatose godhead
>because of every dwemer's thoughts being interconnected, they all realize this
>rather than having the massive ego to achieve CHIM, they realize that they both are and are not and zero sum
>zap themselves out of existence
This is what happens when you're a fedora lord atheist in a world where gods physically manifest and talk to you
0e109d No.14760730
>>14760653
>This is what happens when you're a fedora lord atheist in a world where gods physically manifest and talk to you
My favorite brand of DnD stories.
90a1ee No.14760738
215233 No.14760741
>>14760653
how did vivec and talos manage to not get zero sumed?
3027bd No.14760756
>>14760741
Their sense of self and connection to the Mundus were so strong that they transcended the realization of the dream. They had such massive egos that they could not possibly fathom not actually existing so they were able to exist in the dream despite knowing the reality of the dream. The Dwemer couldn't do this because they were so focused on logic and reason that once they were definitively given the realization of the dream they couldn't overcome that fact.
63a159 No.14760758
>>14760741
Vivec just rolls with the crazy and Talos is not some pussy elf to be zapped out of existence.
3027bd No.14760776
>>14760758
>Vivec just rolls with the crazy
This, also. Remember that he only learned of CHIM after sucking Molag Bal's massive Daedra cock supposedly, nothing in the 36 Sermons should be taken as absolute truth
722807 No.14760819
>>14760653
I am pretty sure bethesda will forget all this shit by the time VI comes up. You know why?
a684a4 No.14760837
can someone give me a quick rundown on Dres and Indoril?
3027bd No.14760848
>>14760819
They forgot about lore by the time Oblivion dropped, evidenced by the asspull retcon of Cyrodiil into a generic countryside. Skyrim just went on to make it worse. Just play Daggerfall and Morrowind over and over again until you die like anyone else who is invested in this dead series.
>>14760837
pic related
3027bd No.14760854
3e32ef No.14761441
>>14760819
>>14760653
I think maybe Bethesda intentionally "forgot" about this bullshit and retconned as much of it as possible because the better part of the lore was probably made by a group of interns on LSD that have no standing in current Bethesda and the people in control realize that this shit is insane and beyond niche and can't move copies.
3027bd No.14761514
>>14761441
Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but aside from Kirkbride, who has still written some stuff for Oblivion and Skyrim, I think all the people who wrote the weird/interesting lore are still at Bethesda. I think the problem is that if that is indeed true, Bethesda won't let them incorporate anything interesting/weird in the games proper besides in-game books because generic and mundane is what sells copies. Oblivion's retcon moved units because the generic European countryside coupled with the superficial swords & sorcery theme hearkened back to LOTR, which was big at the time due to the movies. Same thing with Skyrim, making dragons a central theme made the game safe and normalfags would buy it because it was familiar, even though the dragons were not treated with the care they should've been had they wanted to really be consistent with the established lore. Couple that with a trendy Viking theme and that moves copies of the game. Before Oblivion TES was the weird, fascinating setting we can see by looking at the weirder parts of the in-game books; even Daggerfall, which looks generic on the surface, has a lot of strange metaphysical fuckery going on in it's main quest, especially when viewed through the lens of Morrowind, the most unique game in the franchise. Bethesda had to morph the games' setting into a more generic one (at least on the surface) because they needed a big game to launch the 360 with. I think TES will still have the advantage of talented writers behind it, the problem is that Bethesda's jewery will always stifle them in order to appeal to that ever-important normalfag bottom-feeder focus group.
1abe51 No.14761530
>>14761441
Morrowind was a smash hit, anon.
a030b9 No.14761577
906b97 No.14761578
>>14761514
I thought Oblivion's environment was the way it is in the game because Talos used CHIM to change it.
e6f1e4 No.14761625
>>14761578
That's the explanation in Skyrim. In ESO all the old descriptions of Cyrodiil were apparently just transcription errors. In truth it looks like that because of the LOTR moivies and Todd's want to return to the basics.
3027bd No.14761627
>>14761578
>because Talos used CHIM to change it
This was the bullshit retcon Bethesda pulled out of their ass to justify the province being completely different than how it was described in previous games. Sure, it makes sense that Talos could do that, I guess, but it makes no sense as to why he would do it. Cyrodiilic humans have survived in the jungle that Cyrodiil was for a really long time, there's no reason why it should suddenly change to make it "easier" to live in. They only gave that explanation to justify turning the game into generic, boring bullshit.
3027bd No.14761637
>>14761577
go home, Kirkbride, you're drunk again
e6f1e4 No.14761647
>>14761627
>cyrodiilic humans have survived in the jungle that cyrodiil was for a really long time, there's no reason why it should suddenly change to make it "easier" to live in
This as well. Suddenly turning from a jungle&river-rice economy to a plain&hill-pumpkin economy would be disastrous.
a684a4 No.14761696
>>14761671
he doesn't talk and likes performing slavework
b0387e No.14761758
>>14761671
Why did they retcon the Argonian cacky bird legs?
cdfacd No.14761782
>>14761758
The entire reason is they didn't want to do it any more. It's work. It's extra modeling and animation, so when they moved to Oblivion they looked at the digitigrade legs and said "wow this looks like effort" and made the bodies for both Khajiit and Argonian the same as every other body but with a tail slapped on and a different texture. Bethesda hates work. Look at literally every creative choice Bethesda has made since Morrowind was released and I guarantee you the answers are either "it makes us money" or "it saves us effort". As a company they do not give a single fuck, they are some of the laziest fuckers you will find in the industry proper.
2773ea No.14761785
>>14761758
Because using generic human animations for every fucking thing is easier than actually giving different creatures distinct animations.
It all comes down to devs being lazy or, more likely, publishers being stingy cunts who won't cut a paycheque for their pajeet coders to copy-paste someone else's content from stackexchange.
a684a4 No.14761786
>>14761758
do you know how long it would take to model?
that's a week that could be spent on radiant AI
2ecc3e No.14761788
>>14761758
Morrowind is an odd horse in general.
a2f1d8 No.14761800
>>14761782
I fucking hate when people defend shitty writing with "um it's a fantasy universe where things that aren't realistic happen". That doesn't excuse the fact that you can't keep your shit straight you motherfuckers.
cdfacd No.14761805
>>14761800
Exactly. Anybody that doesn't know how to keep something internally consistent has no business being a writer. It's an amateur mistake and a childish, ignorant excuse.
2ecc3e No.14761808
>>14761782
>>14761785
>>14761786
You fucks do realize that Morriwind is literally the only single game where argonians and khajits have chicken legs right?
1abe51 No.14761818
>>14761758
"Retcon"? Argonians are shapeshifters, y'know that. You totally know it would be a retcon if they had to make it one, though.
a9dcd1 No.14761830
>>14760653
The dwemer didn't just zero sum, their souls fused together and became the driving force of the numidium, the god that kagrenac wanted them to be, except for whatever reason, either because so many of them are together struggling for control, or because none of them have a "self" anymore, they're not actively conscious anymore
And unlike a lot of other lore theories that bethesda-worshipping normalfags would just decry as being "non-canon kirkbride bullshit", bethesda themselves actually put evidence for that in skyrim
c6a2c8 No.14761837
>>14760653
This is never going to be canon, they'll retcon and make shit up when they'll introduce Dwemer in Skyrim 2, fucking Todd and Pete.
1abe51 No.14761849
>>14761830
>unlike a lot of other lore theories that bethesda-worshipping normalfags would just decry as being "non-canon kirkbride bullshit", bethesda themselves actually put evidence for that in skyrim
One thing that's actually really magical about TESuvius is that even though it's full of these ridiculous retcons that are seemingly intended to do nothing but make the people who actually care about the setting angry, it's also absolutely full of these things that are seemingly intended to do nothing but make the people who want the setting dumbed down angry. It's the first game to describe in explicit terms that the Argonians shapeshift (including changing gender) throughout their lives, it includes references to the Echmer of all things, and one of its in-game texts is a disguised link to the website for C0da, instructing the player to go read it.
997f1c No.14761853
>>14760653
I don't really like/play the games but I find discussion of the lore interesting when I happen to peek into these threads. I knew about most of your post but the thing that I didn't know about was the "internet-like" collective consciousness that they had, explaining why almost all of them poofed out of existence, so thanks for filling that missing piece. This guy >>14760619 in the pic survived because he was unconscious right? Not connected to the brain-net at the time it happened?
b0387e No.14761855
>>14761830
>>14761837
The Dwemer are either going to remain a mystery forever or will be retconned into literal LOTR dwarves for a future game, there is no middle ground.
1abe51 No.14761862
>>14761853
Yup, that's right. Note also the Hist, which is this extra-dimensional collective of souls that you become an Argonian by having your soul join, and the Memospore/Memonet, which is a networking system engineered by Man and Mer that operates through the Dreamsleeve (the unconscious realm of the soul, to describe it in my own terms).
7590b6 No.14761863
>>14760653
So explain that image to me, the only mistake the Dwemer made was that the dude doing the last touches of their project hit the wrong note by accident, but somehow that makes them liars?
cdfacd No.14761878
>>14761808
You do realize that half of the designs and a good chunk of lore from Daggerfall and Arena were thrown out the window in "Morriwind" right? They went in a new direction with it, and then welched out again. And you aren't about to convince me for a fucking second anything about Oblivion (as much as I enjoyed it) was to stay true to the pre-Morrowind canon. That's retarded and you know it.
c6a2c8 No.14761883
>>14761855
Do they even have the writers to pull this off? Fallout 3 and Skyim had baby mode lore and writing, New Vegas was a thousand leaps ahead of Fallout 3, and looking at Fallout 4 where they stole a fucking quest mod and just waved it off http://www.moddb.com/mods/autumn-leaves/news/big-publishers-and-a-small-mod
e6f1e4 No.14761891
>>14761671
A gig burly Daedra killing one for guard work.
>>14761808
Fucking TES1 Argonians.
>>14761878
As much as I hate what Oblivion did to Cyrodiil, it did add the awesome White-Gold Tower.
9239ad No.14761914
>>14760653
They didn't zap themselves out of existence. They became the golden skin of the Numidium.
a9dcd1 No.14761920
>>14761855
Of course they're going to remain a mystery, that was the intention the whole time
That doesn't change the fact that we have more than enough information to make some very well educated guesses
367ee3 No.14761934
>>14761627
Wasn't it Kirkbride who pulled the 'Talos used CHIM!' excuse to, well, excuse the country-wide retcon?
5cf494 No.14761949
>>14761934
It's pretty fucking good writing if you are able to make a retcon believable in universe rather than just pretending it never happened. The Warp in the West was cool as shit writing and nothing you can say will change my mind.
c6a2c8 No.14761954
>>14761920
Speculation and theories, one thing about mysteries is, you must never answer it, so Todd and Pete will never answer where the Dwemer went after, unless there's money to be made.
>>14761934
Didn't they change that to "Dragon Breaks" then at the same time have a book that says it ain't real or some future prophecy crap.
e6f1e4 No.14761969
>>14761949
>warp in the west was cool
I disagree but Talos is cool though. Where are my Red Templar dammit
We might get a Warp in the North next considering Skyrim has multiple endings :^)
a9dcd1 No.14761979
>>14761949
He's talking about cyrodiil being a generic lord of the rings place instead of a jungle
The thing about explaining a retcon is, people only accept it if the retcon itself is good
Also the warp in the west isn't a retcon, it's a post-hoc explanation for why there wasn't a retcon after a game with multiple endings
367ee3 No.14761984
>>14761954
Any major event got retconned to 'Dragon Breaks' to my knowledge, yes. Most of Kirkbride's ideas including CHIM were quietly removed or retconned.
2ecc3e No.14761987
>>14761878
So they retcon everything every game or two, why are you complaining then?
c6a2c8 No.14762005
>>14761984
There's still books about The Dragon Break Reexamined, probably just another one of their "Contradictory and Point of View" lore building that Pete was proud off.
07f7fa No.14762008
>>14762005
pic looks like free cities
a9dcd1 No.14762012
>>14762005
Anon
That book was in morrowind, which was during the third era
That book existing is the result of a dragon break
1abe51 No.14762017
>>14761954
>Didn't they change that to "Dragon Breaks" then at the same time have a book that says it ain't real or some future prophecy crap.
What's really cool about that book is that after reading through its argument against time travel/the breaking of conventional space-time being possible… you find out that that book actually came from the future itself.
https://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-2/
c6a2c8 No.14762036
>>14762008
Screencapped the one from the wikia, here's from UESP.
>>14762012
>>14762017
That book gave a lot of theories about the future and hints about what would happen in a sequel title, but then there's Kirk's mushroom adventure in writing about the future, really crazy stuff, too bad Todd and Bethesda disagreed.
1abe51 No.14762057
>>14762036
Eeeyup. With all the Project: Tamriel projects, though, we have got this great chance to put together a story following on from Morrowind that will actually draw all of this in rather than tossing it away. Too bad I've just been putting off getting involved in any of those projects.
309f8a No.14762117
>>14760819
>>14761855
I firmly believe that at this point Bethesda is incapable of writing competently enough to do more than superficial damage to any of the more interesting ideas from Morrowind and earlier.
1abe51 No.14762178
>>14762117
They still obliterated the geography of Cyrodiil along with its many cultures and ethnicities, retconned the dragons out of their place in the Dragon Empire (leaving the Empire with half its fucking namesake gone - not to mention that they just plain retconned them out of existence as far as the timeframe of the setting goes up until Skyrim), retconned the Nordic religion(s) out of existence and made them inexplicably worship the Imperial orthodox cult instead, and put in a two hundred year timeskip that did nothing but retcon away what the future was implied to hold in Morrowind. All of that sucks a lot.
5e55f0 No.14762208
>>14760819
Please no. They already raped enough with Oblivion, Skyrim and TES Online. Morrowind manages to flesh out all the lore in interesting ways but it's all tumbling down.
cdfacd No.14762236
>>14762178
Blame the books for that one. Both the huge time skip and the utter raping of Morrowind. They needed the huge time gap to fit the books into the canon and from what I've read on the wiki pretty much everything about Morrowind just getting destroyed anyway despite the player's actions were all from the books.
caf95e No.14762506
>>14762057
Last time I had contact with PT team, they were intending to put more emphasis on politics in Skyrim and Cyrodiil's main quests, rather than kill-yet-another-godlike-entity shenanigans.
acbb54 No.14762584
d100a4 No.14762959
Not every dragon disappeared
f9e7d2 No.14763021
>>14762959
>Activate Windows
>YOU SCCM rWC MCRCCNQRY SORr,-rOO-SO.± '–' -
>YOU' UNDERSrANO
1abe51 No.14763042
>>14762959
None of the Dragons disappeared, because Skyrim isn't canon. Neither is Oblivion, of course.
Could you imagine if the royal champions of your world-spanning nation were to disappear overnight without anyone caring at all? Haha. Or if a madman were to will the worst ecological crisis any nation of the world would have ever had into being because he "loves" his people and if then two hundred years later people were to praise him for doing so. Haha.
1abe51 No.14763059
>>14762506
>Last time I had contact with PT team, they were intending to put more emphasis on politics in Skyrim and Cyrodiil's main quests, rather than kill-yet-another-godlike-entity shenanigans.
You say that like there's anything more godlike on Nirn than The Elder Council.
098fb4 No.14763110
1abe51 No.14763114
>>14763110
Autumn Leaves - his link was to the Mod DB page for it.
caf95e No.14763171
>>14763059
As far as I know, they also intend for Uriel Septim to either die much later in the main quest or have him alive through the entirety of it. Though, that was over a year and a half ago.
7e5147 No.14763193
>>14762959
The dragons didn't disappear, Nords are just full retard. Dragons were all over the place in the second era, everybody just… forgot.
e6bcf0 No.14763207
>>14762008
>Mixing Free Cities with TES.
Imagine the possibilities!
c6a2c8 No.14763290
>>14763193
They retcon'd the other "Dragons" to be just over-sized lizards.
3027bd No.14764135
>>14762959
I wish Redguard was properly playable and didn't control like ass. There's actually a lot of cool shit in it like Cyrus interacting with N'Gasta and making deals with Clavicus Vile. It's worth it to watch a longplay of the game if you can find it.
f2b25e No.14764246
>Argonians supposedly look different in every game due to regional variants
>We don't get to see two Argonians of different species in the same game
Also
>Levitation magic is a thing
>After Morrowind Bethesda didn't want to include it on the game because it would break their shitty Frankenstein engine
>They excused their laziness by making the empire ban all forms of flight magic
Bethesda doesn't deserve to own this franchise.
I want to see some more cool shit like that daedric floating island with hist trees
32369d No.14764326
Was morrowind really written by a guy out of his mind on drugs?
dfe60e No.14764433
>>14762008
>>14763207
>these niggas know about free cities
I fap to that game literally every day.
421534 No.14764445
>>14764326
Essentially, yeah. Said guy is also an ardent supporter of the Black Panthers (the organization, not the superhero), and made the Redguards as strong as they are in lore because black power, but simultaneously decided that there would be no asians in the setting because somehow it'd be racist to include them.
3027bd No.14764485
>>14764326
>>14764445
Yeah Kirkbride is a faggot SJW, I'm not sure if it's because the alcoholism has fried his brain but it certainly couldn't have helped
487b53 No.14764510
>>14764326
It was half-written by a guy out of his mind on drugs. There were several other writers that acted as an essential filter for his ideas. They also wrote significant portions of the game, themselves. Without a filter like that, Kirkbride's writing is generally esoteric nonsense trash, as can be seen with c0da and kinmune.
06300c No.14764528
>>14761855
>Nobody points out how gay this gif is.
The TES community.
a9dcd1 No.14764544
>>14764445
>Redguards are awesome because black power
>What makes them so awesome is that they're completely stripped of any kind of black identity and culture and put into something objectively better
>black power
Yeah, that sounds like something a leftist would do
>>14764528
>waah why is nobody talking about faggots
If your first reaction is to get offended at the sexual aspect instead of realizing it's obviously a joke, I have some bad news for you, closeted anon
421534 No.14764556
>>14764544
That, and said accomplishments and cultural traditions slapped onto them are stolen from another culture which is deemed as not adhering enough to liberal values to be included in themselves. That sort of double think is the essence of SJWism, and Kirky steeped himself deeply in it.
acfa5c No.14764564
>>14764528
>futa
>gay
Normals leave.
ec18f4 No.14764567
>>14761577
My Nordic LDB has a Dunmer harem, c0da makes it canon.
>>14764445
Funny because he still manages to alienate them from the other races of men. Their 'Sep' is portrayed closer to Lorkhan than Shor putting their mythology/ideology in knife-ear territory. They're also the only race of men to not share a common Nedic ancestry.
503f82 No.14764655
>>14764564
Next you're going to say that traps aren't gay either.
06300c No.14765182
>>14764564
Charles Reed is that you?
0f5db7 No.14766589
>>14764564
< Aren't girls with penises just men?
a684a4 No.14766778
>>14764564
futa is gay but traps aren't
08873c No.14766900
>>14764564
>Normals
Is this the new reddit approved word?
0443bb No.14766932
>>14761855
>no bulge
>suddenly futa
Fucking fags.
580612 No.14771102
>>14763290
We retconned Pluto into not being a planet anymore irl and retconned dinosaurs into birds so this makes sense
do any of you faggots actually know what retcon means or are you misusing it on purpose to be cheeky?
1abe51 No.14771631
>>14771102
Funny you should say that, because that's not what retcon means.
736cc6 No.14771839
>>14771631
retcon means retroactive continuity, not "changing a thing later"
8c9582 No.14772190
>>14761855
>panties are dry
>dick flops down wet
Coulda atleast added a dark spot or something
ee673f No.14772408
>>14766932
Tucking skill 100%.